Garda with attitude

galwaytt

Ninja900 howya

Luckycharm - just keep it simple, and confine yourself to the facts of the ticket you've been issued - dangerous overtaking.

Show how the opposite is the case, and try the local inspector first.......

Luckycharm

So should I ring the local Garda station first which would be Terenure garda station?

Bernard Hopkins

maybe try to go to the head of the traffic unit in your region,.......
going to the same station as the offending officer is not a good idea,
there is a "look after my back and ill look after yours" attitude in the cops.

my sisters boyfriend uses the bus lane every day going to work ,...and repeatedly has the fines quashed cause his friend is a gaurd.
i also know a gaurd who was caught drink driving , and on producing his own garda identity , he was not only let off,...but allowed to continue driving home drunk.

im actually going to post a topic in the "after hours" section on my own experiences with the police.... bet theres a few more interesting stories to come out of the woodwork.

best of luck ,... btw, an ex garda once told me that the garda chief in pearse st station is actually as honest as the day is long. goes exactly by the book apparently. pm me for his name , i dont know if he can do anything for you, but i would try him on his honest reputation.

Scootay

Definitely challenge it. Even if you were to lose there's feck all difference between 2 and 4 points on your licence. No doubt she's relying on you not challenging it and with a bit of luck the garda won't even turn up in court and it'll be thrown out.

Turner

By not payig the fine you are basically challenging it.

A summons will be issued and both you and the garda will be summonsed to court in front of a district court judge.

I presume the gards evidence will be that you overtook a long line of traffic (also giving the time of day weather and road conditions and amount of other road users present including pedestrians) in the incorrect lane (failing to be in the correct lane) and cut in front of stationary traffic.

Its basically up to the judge. You have to take a day off work, the Gard is most likely on overtime and the penalties will be increased if you are convicted.

TBH you should have spotted the patrol car and pulled in behind it or a few cars behind it.

Hotblack Desiato

Chief--- wrote:

you overtook a long line of traffic

If an overtake is legal and safe, the number of vehicles being overtaken is irrelevant

Turner

Im not saying it was unsafe or illegal. Im just saying what the gard probably will say.

Its up to her to provide the proofs for the judge to convict, that the overtake was dangerous. These include the traffic and weather conditions, the speed of the overtake, the amount of pedestrians present etc etc.

Illkillya

Luckycharm - do you have an update on this? I am glad to see that you are contesting it rather than rolling over like a bold puppy and I hope that you have taken legal advice on it. Sounds to me like the garda was suffering from some rush hour road rage, and she shouldn't be allowed get away with taking it out on you.

Turner

Maybe she has to deal with two or three accidents every rush hour at that junction. Maybe she is sick of appearing as a witness at so many civil court cases from those accident.

For the OP is was probably his first interaction with a Garda.

For the Garda it is probably an hourly event dealing with people who flout the rules of the road at that junction.

Illkillya

Chief--- wrote:

Maybe she has to deal with two or three accidents every rush hour at that junction. Maybe she is sick of appearing as a witness at so many civil court cases from those accident.

For the OP is was probably his first interaction with a Garda.

For the Garda it is probably an hourly event dealing with people who flout the rules of the road at that junction.

That doesn't make it right. If the OP was not overtaking danerously then he should not be penalised for dangerous overtaking.

Scootay

Chief--- wrote:

For the Garda it is probably an hourly event dealing with people who flout the rules of the road at that junction.

What rules of the road were being flouted?

Luckycharm

Maybe she has to deal with two or three accidents every rush hour at that junction. Maybe she is sick of appearing as a witness at so many civil court cases from those accident.

For the OP is was probably his first interaction with a Garda.

For the Garda it is probably an hourly event dealing with people who flout the rules of the road at that junction.

Chief not sure you know the Junction that is in question if you did you would know that basically every morning there is a line of stagnant traffic there due to some the worst Sequenced lights in Dublin. Lights at rathdown motors to terenure crossroads about 30ms between them.
As I have said before I travel the same route every day for 6 years, like most bikers I am sure I know the lights sequence at this junction i.e. green followed by green filter turning right. I always have a quick look so I know around how much time I have it was green going the other way so I knew i had at least 30 seconds before my lights would change.
I have pulled in front of Garda cars many times in the past with no incident.
True I will not do it again

Anyway update is my solicitor friend has been trying to get in touch with the Garda in Question who is out of Terenure garda station to get exact reasons for ticket so would no nasty surprises in court. I think I have till next Tuesday to pay I think but really would like to challenge it !!

Turner

Scootay wrote:

What rules of the road were being flouted?

Dangerous overtaking aparently.

Turner

Illkillya wrote:

That doesn't make it right. If the OP was not overtaking danerously then he should not be penalised for dangerous overtaking.

Its up to the Garda in court to give the necessary proofs to get a conviction for Dangerous overtaking.

If the Judge thinks the required proofs are not given he will not conivct.

gsxr1

i got stopped for the same thing last year at the keys. rid in between two cars. one of which was a guard car. they where both stoppedat the lights the guard stopped me down the road and was shouting at me. i had no problem shouting back at him. it says in the police road craft book that i can filter. if the line of traffic on your left or right is stopped or moving slow.and as long as the line on the road is broken. i challenged what he says and he backed down . he also threatened to arrest me for having no licence on me. he was anti bike. galwaytt and ninja900 are 100% correct.
but i was also told by a guard that the whole subject can become very grey. there is strong evidence that filtering causes crashes. i have to admit to a few close shaves myself while doing it.

Hotblack Desiato

gsxr1 wrote:

there is strong evidence that car drivers not looking properly and not signalling when changing lanes causes crashes.

Corrected that for you

i have to admit to a few close shaves myself while doing it.

Filtering is safe if done carefully and if the difference in speed between you and the cars isn't too high. You need time to react to anything happening in front of you, and you need to give the car drivers (the ones who actually do look) the chance to react to you coming behind them.

:mad: The Road Safety Authority were giving out "This is your Bike" booklets at the bike show, the original version of this was basically written by MAG and rider trainers, but when printing the new version they just took out the page on filitering altogether. That's nuts. If they think riders are better off without safety advice, why are they bothering to print a safety booklet at all. Also they dumbed down the section on cornering to say that you basically should stay in the middle of your lane at all times. Daft.

Luckycharm

gsxr1 wrote:

i got stopped for the same thing last year at the keys. rid in between two cars. one of which was a guard car. they where both stoppedat the lights the guard stopped me down the road and was shouting at me. i had no problem shouting back at him. it says in the police road craft book that i can filter. if the line of traffic on your left or right is stopped or moving slow.and as long as the line on the road is broken. i challenged what he says and he backed down . he also threatened to arrest me for having no licence on me. he was anti bike. galwaytt and ninja900 are 100% correct.
but i was also told by a guard that the whole subject can become very grey. there is strong evidence that filtering causes crashes. i have to admit to a few close shaves myself while doing it.

Very interesting - Given I have been a car driver longer then a scooter driver- I think it has made me more careful when on the bike. When passing static traffic if nothing oncoming I do it quite wide to give myself enough time to react. I generally look underneath the cars for feet and go very slowly past anything I see through, over, under.
I have actually had more problems in the past with Pedestrians and cyclists who just go out in front of you without even looking :mad:

Think I will stick to a scooter though as don't think I could trust myself with a Motorbike - some of the motorbikes I see in the morning seem to like playing Chicken with the oncoming cars and I know which would win:eek:

Kinetic^

Yeah defo agree with you luckycharm about driving both gives you more awareness.

Haven't got stopped for filtering ever, actually haven't got pulled over in while *touches wood in meh pants* Last time I was pulled over was for speeding, stupid whore!!! :mad: It was the red coz section of the M50, need I say more.......silly limit along there.

faceman

I might have missed it in the thread somewhere but just in case... OP make sure that your license is correct before appealing, otherwise ur goosed i reckon. Does seem a bit extreme what you went through but you're always goin to get gardai who will and who wont anyway.

I have to say tho, it was kinda risky doin it with a garda car there, as someone already said, i also pull in a few cars behind, just in case.

Might be worth giving MAG a shout and see if they have any advice.

ScouseMouse

Two guards followed my friend who was on his Pan while he went for a spin on the M50. The cops followed him from Palmerstown to Bray, then pulled him for suspicious behaviour, evasive riding, leaving motorway and getting right back on, etc etc. He put a complaint in straight away to Blanch station. The guards were questioned and gave a report to superiors. The cop car had a camera which contradicted their reports. CAUGHT RAPID !! They were caught for false report, illegal stop, and others. This was before the law changed, that gives the cops to stop any vehicle for no reason....

wotsasilencer

Personally I'd tell the hormonal bitch to stop power tripping and go do some real police work.

The one thing that any guard should ask themselves "Am I actually changing something for the better" if the answer is no or even maybe, then a caution would be far more appropriate because all that stupid cow has managed to do is alienate a normally law abiding member of the public and anybody else that they know well.

olearydc

Overtaking Garda !!....

Was driving a bike approx 15 years ago in the UK.
going down the A1 into london...Dual road, 30MPH speed limit, but eveyone used to drove at 60...
Was late for work so started to filter between the cars who seemed to be a bit slow that morning..Found out way, there was a cop bike in front doing 30 and no-one was going past...again i was late, very late so needed to get past

slowly made my way up, came level with him and just started creeping past..30..31..32..33 sort of thing...made some lights, then opened up with a clear road ahead of me..

of course after a few miles, sirens and bells going off
Got pulled by the Cop who said he saw me coming up behind him for a while over a flyover..with my lights on...knew what I was trying to do and said to me that he was smiling as I tried to get past him..
Gave me a lecture (used to get a lot when I was younger!!) and said never ever go past a Cop..then let me off

Since then, I would find it hard to go past the Garda, unless they were stuck in traffic, but if they were at the head of a Q...would stay 1 car behind them, but make sure they could see you in their side mirror (light on!!)
Any other car I would get in front as some people could decide at the last minute to turn right..So safer to be in the front

I think in this case you're right...99.9 percent of Garda understand the concept that bikes can filter ...in your case I would fight it...

I would love to hear a Garda biker give their views...
Best of luck

gonk

Krusty_Clown wrote:

Remember, just because the Gardai turn a blind eye to bikers travelling in the bus lane, it is still illegal, and a penalty point offence...

Yes, it's illegal, no it's not a penalty point offence.

See here: http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/7424-1.pdf

Luckycharm

Well I have not paid the fine so waiting to see if I get a Summons to go to court.

Luckycharm

Got a summons last week it was issued on the 3 sept - I did not receive it till the 29th Jan!! So going to court to defend myself on the 29th Feb. The summons says it is for the below.

" it says it is for overtaking another vehicle when you could not clearly see a portion of the roadway ahead which (a) was free from approaching traffic, pedestrians and any obstruction, and (b) was sufficiently long and wide to permit the overtaking to be completed without danger or inconvience to other traffic or pedestrian in contravention of Article 10 (2) of the road traffic regs 1997.

I was filtering past static traffic to the start of the traffic, I was only travelling about 5km an hour and was stationery at the lights for at least 30 secs before they went green. Perfectly clear day, no oncoming traffic have pictures of road being wide enough. 15 years full clean license no points for bike/car. Anyway the whole episode is on this thread, lets see how I get on in court!!

murphaph

Best of luck. You hear of judges throwing out stuff all the time. Hopefully you'll be in that category.

smoc

Luckycharm wrote: »

Got pulled over yesterday morning on my way into work and honestly have no idea what I was pulled over for!! Drive a scooter to work to avoid the traffic. COme up to junction passing slowly static traffic on outside not inside and pull in front of Garda car beside another bike waiting for the lights to change.
30 Seconds later lights change sirens go off telling me to pull in. Lady garda gets out has a bit of a scream at passing motorcyclist. Then pulls out her notebook saying I am going to get a fine and 2 penalty points. I go I did nothing wrong

She says I passed on a continous white line the traffic which was standing still at the time. At this junction there is a filter for cars going right no car was in it at the time so there was a broken white line. Took pictures
Anyway continue protestations she starts to get more thick ringing in my reg etc,I say this is bull**** she of course jumps on that and starts trying to say I did not have the right license- yes I do!! I have a feeling the wench is going to try and persue this.

Went and took photos with my phone of the area as evidence as I am still baffled why I got pulled over. Using bus lanes, bike lanes etc fair enough but in this instance I had done nothing wrong!! Given I have done the same thing probally a 1000 times before often when Garda standing on corner or garda bike beside me I am baffled.
If i get a fine I am going to fight it as don't have any penalty points!! Going to cop shop today with insurance should I query it?

This is total bull****! Shes on a power trip the stupid cow. What you did is simple filtering and I was told by a Gardai before that this is perfectly legal. I do it all the time myself. I'd defo appeal that and get the bitch strung for wasting the courts time.

Wossack

Best of luck OP, I do this all the time (overtake like that, not go to court )

Fr Dougal

Best of luck LC. Hope it goes well for you. Do you have a solicitor working on it?

Might be worthwhile giving MAG Ireland a shout

madrab

good luck, hope the judge throws it out & gives the garda a fine for being a twat