DSL Repeaters

s_wrenn

DSL repeater

“This is a very new technology which allows DSL to travel longer distances to remote customers. One version of the repeater is installed at approximately 3 km (10,000 ft) intervals along the trunk line, and strengthens and cleans up the DSL signal so it can travel another 3 km (10,000 ft).”
From Wiki

My exchange is enabled, however I’m about 2km away from where the signal dies out (even my dial-up connection is a weakening 40k)
Wireless isn’t available, and satellite, is way too dear.
Does anyone know if eircom has this technology, and if/where they have it implemented.
If they do have DSL repeaters how do I go about getting one?

My last hope for getting DSL relies on a device like this.

Urban Weigl

Eircom don't care, and why should they? After all, people pay more for dialup than they do for broadband, so there's no point installing a repeater as far as they are concerned.

muckwarrior

It says the repeater is placed on the trunk line, i.e. the line connecting exchanges. Chances of them installing anything on the line from the exchange to your house is slim to say the very least.

And previous poster, he says he's 2km past the farthest point DSl can reach, not 2km from the exchange!

watty

The principle of DSL repeater will work on any line (at simplest the concept could be done with a DSL modem feeding a one line DSLAM, all powered of the phone line). Can't think why you would be running DSL between exchanges. I'm sure "trunk" is a mistake.

crawler

watty wrote:

The principle of DSL repeater will work on any line (at simplest the concept could be done with a DSL modem feeding a one line DSLAM, all powered of the phone line). Can't think why you would be running DSL between exchanges. I'm sure "trunk" is a mistake.

Ah Watty - you know that there is an issue with older copper and the maximum voltage you can put on the line and degradation of the copper V attenuation and capacitance - you also know that many repeaters kinda mess up the frequency plan that said there are a few out there that would work for most lines but they are expensive enough...probelm is many are point to point devices and not point to multipoint so multiple points of failure, management - good in theory, messy in reality.

s_wrenn

Sorry for any confusion. I meant that I’m about 6 or 7km from the exchange. Around 2km from the last point it can be accessed.

andmoreagain

muckwarrior wrote:

Chances of them installing anything on the line from the exchange to your house is slim to say the very least.

Except, that is, for a carrier/splitter/pairgain. There's one on the pole outside my house, and I'm only 200 metres from the exchange!

watty

crawler wrote:

Ah Watty - you know that there is an issue with older copper and the maximum voltage you can put on the line and degradation of the copper V attenuation and capacitance - you also know that many repeaters kinda mess up the frequency plan that said there are a few out there that would work for most lines but they are expensive enough...probelm is many are point to point devices and not point to multipoint so multiple points of failure, management - good in theory, messy in reality.

Yes.
"Repeater" only viable with a locally powered cabinet and enough lines for a single shelf DSLAM.

No-one on an individual line is likely to see a repeater fitted.

Boston

Urban Weigl wrote:

Eircom don't care, and why should they? After all, people pay more for dialup than they do for broadband, so there's no point installing a repeater as far as they are concerned.

Is it still that way? Surely it's cheaper for Eircom to have people use a packet switched network rather then a circuit switched one.

watty

How the actual network is implemented doesn't affect how people are connected. A Telco could have an all IP network and customers using pulse dialling (rotary phone) and connected to exchange by the top pair of wires on a fence. Or even one wire and return by earth spike (been used for telegraph, may only work very short distances for voice). A pair of barbed wires as cable strung between trees without insulators has even been used for phone.

Boston

What you're saying is correct but irrelevant to my point. Dialling up with eircoms places you on a circuit switched network, just like making a phone call. ADSL places you on a packet switched network, it is cheaper for eircom to have people on a packet switched network, then it is to have them on a circuit switched network, so again I ask, do eircom actually make significantly more from Dial up then DSL, on a per user basis, these days?

gerryo

Boston wrote:

ADSL places you on a packet switched network, it is cheaper for eircom to have people on a packet switched network, then it is to have them on a circuit switched network, so again I ask, do eircom actually make significantly more from Dial up then DSL, on a per user basis, these days?

How can you be sure of this without access to Eircom internal pricing information/network planning/installation costs?

I would have thought old circuit switched equipment was cheaper, & was probably installed already in the exchanges, where as packet equipment needs to be installed as well as circuit switched in the exchange to provide ADSL.

IMHO, they make more money from line rental + calls, since the equipment is already there, where as DSLAM will take longer to provide ROI, so they probably say, "why bother with ADSL in every exchange".

As more & more users drop fixed lines, their revenues will drop for circuit switched, but don't expect that to trigger installation of ADSL, we are talking about Eircom after all.

Boston

gerryo wrote:

How can you be sure of this without access to Eircom internal pricing information/network planning/installation costs?

I would have thought old circuit switched equipment was cheaper, & was probably installed already in the exchanges, where as packet equipment needs to be installed as well as circuit switched in the exchange to provide ADSL.

IMHO, they make more money from line rental + calls, since the equipment is already there, where as DSLAM will take longer to provide ROI, so they probably say, "why bother with ADSL in every exchange".

As more & more users drop fixed lines, their revenues will drop for circuit switched, but don't expect that to trigger installation of ADSL, we are talking about Eircom after all.

With circuit switched network you're maintaining a fixed point to point connection, in packet switching your not and thus you can spread you're resources across multiple people. packet switching networks and cheaper to run then circuit switched networks, and are far cheaper to scale. You're right about initial costs and all the rest you said, but it's not what I asked, given both networks existing along side one another, which is usually the case here, do eircom still make more from dial up then DSL?

watty

BT is switching to IP for network to save money. It doesn't affect analogue phone or dialup users.

Dialup carries generally less traffic than DSL customer and can result in higher revenue as there is no true flatrate. Dialup 56K only goes to the nearest exchange generally so both ADSL and Dialup Internet can be using the same network costs. Traffic obviously could be 1/20th or less for dialup.

The circuit switch probably only applies to ISDN and analogue voice calls, and that can be done (as it mostly will be UK) by packet.

I can't see how eircom does not do better from high usage dialup users. For very low usage users it may make no difference to them.

Before I used CPS and changed my dialup to 59 min at a time in evening (and geographic POP number) my dialup costs often over 60 Euro per month + line rental. For 4 years service deterioated from 33k to 19k. Then they finally replaced a faulty connection 100m from house and I had 42k.

With the 3M /1M broadband I was paying 35Euro a month and Line rental before I cancelled eircom altogether.