MINI - A girls car?

peasant

It still is a "fad" car.
Why? Because it does nothing really well. It's to big and to strong to be a cheap runabout. It's too small to be family transport. It's to expensive to be an "affordable" car. It's to heavy to be a sports car and therefore needs complicated, expensive engines to bring it up to scratch.

How long the "fad" is going to last and how many are going to sell is an entirely different issue.

The old mini sold for another 25 years after a production stop was first mentioned ...lets see if the new MINI can follow that

Owen

peasant wrote:

It still is a "fad" car. Why? Because it does nothing really well.

Other than sell in record numbers. It's already more than doubled it's predicted sales. To paraphrase journalists on the other things it does well :

It handles excellently
It holds it's value as the years go on
It's reliable
It's safe
It's fuel efficient (The 1.6 Cooper in the R56 model does 48 Mpg)

peasant wrote:

It's to big and to strong to be a cheap runabout.

It's not designed to be a 'cheap' runabout. It's designed to be the only premium compact car, and to still be in superb condition in 20 years time like any BMW. That's part of the reason it's residual values are so strong.

peasant wrote:

It's too small to be family transport.

A minute ago you said it was too big! The R55 Estate, or the Clubman as it's called will fill the gap for Family transport.

peasant wrote:

It's to expensive to be an "affordable" car.

With MINIs own financial packages, you can have a new MINI One for about 350 Euro per month.

peasant wrote:

It's to heavy to be a sports car and therefore needs complicated, expensive engines to bring it up to scratch.

That's about as ill-informed as one person can get. It out accellerates both the Renault Clio 197 (197 horsepower as opposed to the MINI Cooper S' 175), and outaccellerates the Vauxhall VXR240 (240Bhp). Both these facts I verified myself on an old RAF airfield near the MINI factory last October. It's obviously not that heavy.

Oh, and the engines are very cheap to produce, they licensed the engines to Peugeot for use in their smaller hatchbacks, as long as Peugeot agreed to restrict the power. More engine production = less cost.

peasant wrote:

How long the "fad" is going to last and how many are going to sell is an entirely different issue. The old mini sold for another 25 years after a production stop was first mentioned ...lets see if the new MINI can follow that

The new MINI is owned by BMW, not Rover. It has a very long roadbook ahead for it to follow, and as stated, we will have new models right up until 2010, and after that, they'll go into facelifts of the existing models, just like every other manufacturer out there.

peasant

The R55 Estate, or the Clubman as it's called will fill the gap for Family transport.

Any idea on how big the boot is going to be on that one?

If its big enough to swallow my three dogs, I take everything back and buy one myself

Owen

peasant wrote:

Any idea on how big the boot is going to be on that one?

If its big enough to swallow my three dogs, I take everything back and buy one myself

lol, I'll let you know. I'm driving in in Berlin in September. I'll hopefully have one for Jan 08. They may just make it a 4 wheel drive option too, now that'd be neat.

Stevo11

I picked up a '07 Cooper yesterday (have it for a week).
Took it for a good spin yesterday eve... the interior is top class, looks great, good materials.
Driving :
No power low down, none at very top end (6.5-7krpm onwards)... but midrange, it really shifts! Short gear ratios(its a 6speed) and a nice bit of torque.
Suspension is nice, firm and stable. Lots of grip (even on wet roundabouts).
The brakes nearly put me through the windscreen the first time I pressed the pedal so no problems there ;-)

BUT
I don't like the steering much so far, wwaaaay over-assisted, takes from
the "feel" ... kinda numbs it.. plus its not helped by a decent dose of torque steer :-( This really let it down as a driver's car.. it was so good up until this.

I also don't like the engine sound, I know this may be a little pedantic but.. it sounds like an mid-90's Fiesta from inside... uggghhh

Girl's car? Well.. it has a vanity mirror on the drivers side sun visor... not into the image thing myself..


Will see if my opinion changes after a week of it, so far if I was in the market for something like this I'd prob be now v.interested in test driving the new Civic to see how it compares..

Steve

Owen

Stevo11 wrote:

I don't like the steering much so far, wwaaaay over-assisted,

You'll be delighted to know then, that from the 1st of March onwards, there will be an option on the Cooper for a Sport Button which will firm up steering, and sharpen throttle response. It's standard on the S, but nice to see it coming on stream for the Cooper too.

Great review Stevo, balancing the pros with the cons!

unkel

junkyard wrote:

Hey peasant, ya can't go bashing BMW's around here ya know.;)

Of course you can

peasant wrote:

-overaccessorisable

Not your style obviously, you side with Henry Ford on this one: available in any colour as long as it's black

I've nowt to back this up, but I've a dark brown feeling that the option list and the "packs" form a large part of the profit BMW make on MINIs. Anyone will have to admit this is very clever marketing indeed. I seem to remember from doing a good bit of marketing in college, that classifying a product that's been a huge commercial succes over many years as a fad would have failed me my exams...

peasant

unkel wrote:

...classifying a product that's been a huge commercial succes over many years as a fad would have failed me my exams...

A successful, long-term "fad" then

The MINI came along at roughly the same time as the "New Beetle" and as the Beetle it is a marketing excercise to revive/continue an iconic car into the 21st century.

Both failed on the prime objective, as neither vehicle managed to emulate the original particularly well. But the MINI was/is a commercial success (which can't be said about the New Beetle) ...in my opinion mostly because it is endlessly accessorisable and can be specced to enhance almost every buyer's "personality" (or the personality that they wish to portray to the outside, anyway) whereas VW stuck to the old "one size fits all" approach.

The packacking / accessorising on the MINI isn't BMW's idea either. For the last ten years of the original Mini's life, there was limited series after limited series and the options list was very extensive and heftily priced for a car that was basically supposed to be a cheap "micro car".

BMW were lucky there, as the last of the old Minis had a list price (+accessories) of about twice of what the actual car was worth.
All they needed to do was to continue on that level ...and nobody fools BMW when it comes to making money out of "extras".

I'm not disputing that the MINI is a pretty good car, but it also does a pretty good job at parting it's buyers from a lot more money than they should rightfully be spending for what they are actually getting.

Lots of motoring journalists say for example that drivingwise the new Suzuki Swift / Swift Sport is the "new Mini" ...and that costs how much again??

The MINI is the "shiny, happy people's" Beemer ...and it does a good job at that.

Sandwich

Not as feminine as a Beetle, Tigra, 3 series compact etc , but it is indeed a girly car. Small and 'roundy' cars are always girly cars no matter what you do with sporty seats or exhaust pipes.

Also, unfair but true: if even a minority think its a girly car then it is.

Paparazzo

ned78 wrote:

I've a theory on this. People are afraid to be different and to break the mould, and love to criticise anything that's doing well - we're a nation of knockers. They see the MINI, they see how people love it, and how well it's doing, how it's one of the few brands in the UK Motor Manufacturing Industry with a bright future ahead of it, and then try to find fault. The only things they can come up with, is that it's a bit girly, it's expensive, and it's a fad. Rather childish, and ill-informed arguments when you really examine the brand.

Keep repeating this when you're driving around a womans car!
No one is knocking it cos it's successful. I doubt most people here even knew it was successful. It just looks girlie, and girls or male hairdressers seem to be the people that drive it most.

unkel

peasant wrote:

the MINI was/is a commercial success (which can't be said about the New Beetle) ...in my opinion mostly because it is endlessly accessorisable

Isn't that the same as what I said?

peasant wrote:

The MINI came along at roughly the same time as the "New Beetle" and as the Beetle it is a marketing excercise to revive/continue an iconic car into the 21st century.

Both failed on the prime objective, as neither vehicle managed to emulate the original particularly well

The prime objective was never to emulate the original. The prime objective was to make a profit. The "New Beetle" failed. The MINI succeeded

Owen

Paparazzo wrote:

Keep repeating this when you're driving around a womans car!
No one is knocking it cos it's successful. I doubt most people here even knew it was successful. It just looks girlie, and girls or male hairdressers seem to be the people that drive it most.

As I've said in the thread, and provided evidence to prove, it's not mostly girls driving the car. I don't need to repeat anything to myself when I'm driving my S, I'm looking around at all the people driving boring, ordinary cars and feeling sorry for them for having bugger all taste. I'm looking at cars depreciating so heavily, you can practically see money falling off them while they sit waiting for the lights to change, and I'm looking at people who just want an ordinary old car for getting from a to b. Pathetic.

MINI is about putting the fun back in driving. I can roast most cars in a straight line, and I can demolish any car in a corner. My car is uniquely different to any other MINI on the road, not just different from the vast sea of Fords, FIATs, Hondas, etc. It costs nothing to service, and will more than likely be worth about 80 percent of it's value in 3 years. People let me out in traffic to look at the car!

So, people like you think it's girly? To be honest about it, that doesn't bother me. You're in my eyes a little uneducated about the product you knock and it gives me great satisfaction to know that because you choose to perceive the car with a narrow-mind, you'll never experience all the fun driving such a car can give you. In the Dealership where I work, 4 years ago men waiting for Service would wander into the MINI Showroom and utter the old 'Sure that's only a girls car'. In the last 2 years, as the car market has grown up a little in Ireland, the comments are now along the lines of 'My mate has one of those, quick little thing, serious handling', etc. If you still feel the need to use that old chestnut mate, you're stuck in a timewarp.

I personally love the looks of the MINI Cooper S as standard, the new black honeycomb grill makes it look more GTi than handbag, and if you think a small, superb handling, fast car is girlie, then you probably don't like the Peugeot 205 Gti, the Golf GTi or the Ariel Atom.

I'm very curious about where this attitude has come from too, it seems to be only an Irish stigma. MINI is accepted in every market it's sold in, and it's advertising (In case you hadn't noticed) only features men. The older, classic Minis were accepted as a car for everyone, Paul McCartney had one, Michael Caine had one, and even the British Royalty had one. I guess people just need something to complain about, and this is all they can find ... and it's funny, yet strangely pathetic, to hear the same old argument churned up over and over again.

Paparazzo wrote:

I doubt most people here even knew it was successful

Paparazzo, if you're that ill-informed about how MINI has been doing, then the rest of your arguments start to make sense. It's universally accepted that MINI has been a global success.

Owen

peasant wrote:

The MINI came along at roughly the same time as the "New Beetle" and as the Beetle it is a marketing excercise to revive/continue an iconic car into the 21st century.

Incorrect fact number 1. The new MINI had actually been designed by Rover before they were bought by the BMW Group. It was going to be a Rover product, and released as a continuation to the existing classic Minis. There as no 'reviving an iconic car' planned. The old MINIs stopped production in 2000, the new began in 2001.

peasant wrote:

The packacking / accessorising on the MINI isn't BMW's idea either. For the last ten years of the original Mini's life, there was limited series after limited series and the options list was very extensive and heftily priced for a car that was basically supposed to be a cheap "micro car".

Incorrect fact number 2. Of course it was BMW's idea. BMW have had a menu pricing structure as far back as I can remember, and most of the options from the MINI menu are lifted from the BMW menus too.

peasant wrote:

I'm not disputing that the MINI is a pretty good car, but it also does a pretty good job at parting it's buyers from a lot more money than they should rightfully be spending for what they are actually getting.

And No. 3. It's not overpriced either. A 1.4 3 door 80 Bhp, from Volkswagen's website, is € 18, 100 + delivery. It's standard kit is 2 Airbags, ABS, PS, EW, EM, Immobiliser, CD. By comparission, the MINI One, 1.4 is a more powerful 95 Bhp, 6 speed gearbox and is is € 21350 + Delivery. It has 6 Airbags, ABS, Cornering Brake Control, Speed dependent Power Steering ratios, EW, EM, Immobiliser, Alarm, Tyre Pressure Sensors, Follow me home Headlamps, Spoiler, CD Player, iPod connection. The MINI is made from higher quality materials, and components, has much better resale (Ready 25% difference at the end of 3 years), and vastly cheaper servicing. So it is indeed competitively priced, and well equipped. There's 3 grand between them day one for a vastly superior car in terms of equipment and quality. You can service a MINI for 5 yeats for € 250, and I'd be willing to bet the Polo would be at least €900, so that's € 2, 350 between them. At the end of 3 years, there's a much more of a price difference - but this time in the MINI's favour.

peasant wrote:

Lots of motoring journalists say for example that drivingwise the new Suzuki Swift / Swift Sport is the "new Mini" ...and that costs how much again??

Did you see how hard the journalists laughed at the Swift when it was originally released in Japan? It was a carbon copy of the MINI, white roofs, white stripes, round headlamps, big clock in the middle of the dash. They had to put it back under the cover, redesign it to what you see today. It's a nice Japanese car that drives slightly above average in terms of handling (Handling is never what a MINI will be, I've driven it), and the interior plastics and trim just aren't top notch either.

It says something though when the Japs try hard to copy something though, doesn't it?

peasant

ned78

...why so worried about my "light hearted criticism"?

I'm a narky old man ...just leave me to it :rolleyes:

There's enough people buying MINIS and my mumblings shure aren't going to influence them.

Nice to see an eager salesman all the same, and one who actually believes in the product he's selling

Owen

peasant wrote:

Nice to see an eager salesman all the same, and one who actually believes in the product he's selling

PMSL, you got me there. It goes beyond being a Salesman though, I've been passionate about MINIs and Minis long before I ever put the suit on. I just also happen to have the best job in the world.

peasant

My final word on this:

Like with the run-out models of the old Mini, what I don't like about the new MINI is the underlying feeling of cynisism (on behalf of the makers) that I'm getting when I find myself wanting one.

I just KNOW that I'm being conned into buying not just a car but also a host of accessories and trim and styling thingies that a Mini/MINI just can't be (seen) without.

It's a good car, it's a fine car even ...but it's a gimmicky car, always "tarted up" that bit too much to have an "honest" feel about it.

Am I making sense? Probably not ...but at least I know what I mean


And no ...it's not a girlie car ...

Paparazzo

"the vast sea of Fords, FIATs, Hondas, etc" - But if the mini is so successful, surely there's a vast sea of them too!
You obviously care a lot about this, and each people have their own taste in cars, so fair enough. I certainly don't think beating a car at the lights makes something a mans car, personally i think someone that does that is a bit or a scummer.
But, had a talk to a few people in work (and at home) and yes, they all thought (all but 1, I'll be honest) it was a girls car. You may think that view is old fashioned, and not respect the thoughts of people that don't follow the automobile industry, but it's what most people seem to think about the mini.
I know you have stats of the sex of people that buy it, but does that necessarily mean they drive it? The vast majority of people I've seen driving them are women. Saw one bloke driving a pink with flowers(seriously!, a spin 103 one) one today, but everyone else I've seed driving them is a woman. I work in the city centre so i see a lot of them. Actually, there's millions of them around. A girl in my office even has one.

Owen

Paparazzo wrote:

I certainly don't think beating a car at the lights makes something a mans car, personally i think someone that does that is a bit or a scummer.

No one said anything about racing at the lights. What was said, was that I can roast most cars in a straight line, and this could, and usually is, on the South Link Road in Cork, a short scale Motorway, and under the limit, accellerating towards the limit, there's very little that can outrun the little Cooper S.

Paparazzo wrote:

The vast majority of people I've seen driving them are women.

Your mind sees what you want it to see. I remember once, before I owned a Honda Blackbird, I'd never have seen one on the road. Then I bought one, and they were everywhere. It's the same with this situation. If you want to see men driving the MINI, you'll see them. For the record, I had an exceptionally 'butch' male celeb into me today looking to buy one for himself as his primary car. I'd be terrified to call the car girly in front of him

Futureman

ned78 wrote:

I just also happen to have the best job in the world.

I don't understand - you live in Cork, you have to wear a suit every day in your 9-5er, and you sell cars? Am I missing something?

.Longshanks.

ned78 wrote:

Your mind sees what you want it to see. I remember once, before I owned a Honda Blackbird, I'd never have seen one on the road. Then I bought one, and they were everywhere. It's the same with this situation. If you want to see men driving the MINI, you'll see them.

Ned78, to be honest, i think i personally see more girls driving MINIs than men....... and it was me who started this thread. Then then again i have been on he look out for them and there be an element of "your mind sees what you want it to see" in that - but i dunno.
I'm totally convinced on every other aspect of the car that the Cooper D is the car for me, assuming i still want it after a test drive and can still can afford all the options i want to get:D.
To be honest the 'girl' image isn't something that would bother me ('that much'), its my girlfriend who's been is taking the piss out of me (& still is) saying its a girls car and hence this tread.
She keeps it up as i have been known to change my when window shopping on a weekly basis:rolleyes:
I'm actually gonna call into a dealer tommorow just to have a wee nosey and see a normal coooper in the flesh.

dumbyearbook

Futureman wrote:

I don't understand - you live in Cork, you have to wear a suit every day in your 9-5er, and you sell cars? Am I missing something?

Futureman you're out of order there mate in fairness...

Ned ive seen you on here before giving it loads on the mini side you know you're stuff and as someone who works in marketing for a big company you're a credit to mini a real ambassador for the brand in attitude and motivation!

I'll be considering mini in the future!

unkel

Futureman wrote:

I don't understand - you live in Cork, you have to wear a suit every day in your 9-5er, and you sell cars? Am I missing something?

What a wonderful contribution to this thread, Futureman :rolleyes:

Paparazzo

Futureman wrote:

I don't understand - you live in Cork, you have to wear a suit every day in your 9-5er, and you sell cars? Am I missing something?

Not just cars, girl cars.

Mr Magnolia

I'd say the Cooper S might convert me, one day I might buy one for the missus lol. In fairness Ned you've put a good arguement together.

Futureman wrote:

I don't understand - you live in Cork, you have to wear a suit every day in your 9-5er, and you sell cars? Am I missing something?

:rolleyes:

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

Futureman wrote:

I don't understand - you live in Cork, you have to wear a suit every day in your 9-5er, and you sell cars? Am I missing something?

and living in cork he will probably have his mortgage payed in about two years,

yes Futureman, i can see now why he drives you crazy.

sneakyST

drdre wrote:

nah i dont think they are a girls car.Especially not the new mini GP.it looks amazing and has alot of bhp.
http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=558564

Agreed there but 50k, way too expensive.
On topic, the only girlie mini is the convertible one IMO. No matter how good they are they are overpriced in this country unfortunately

Owen

Futureman wrote:

I don't understand - you live in Cork, you have to wear a suit every day in your 9-5er, and you sell cars? Am I missing something?

God yes, you missed lots! I never wear a tie, I manage my own franchise, so I get to do things how I want, and then there's the company trips. We're off to Amsterdam for 3 days, Berlin for 2, and to the MTV Music Awards as VIPs. That's this year, last year we went to the UK twice - purely to drive cars around tracks, Rome for 2 days, and Paris for 3, the year before it was Misano near Bologna for a 3 day party, the year before that it was Barcelona for the launch of the convertible, driving it in glorious spanish sunshine, staying in a 6 star hotel.

Oh, and then, there's all the gorgeous girls who come in the door too. But the other half would have my head on a plate if she saw me posting that here

Does that answer your question Futureman?

Owen

Paparazzo wrote:

Not just cars, girl cars.

lol, touché!