The Relegation Dogfight

Savman

Ok so I don't usually start threads on other teams, but West Ham deserve special mention cos for some reason I've been following their progress with interest since the Pardew-Wenger spat.

It seems as though they tried to do a Chelsea and spend spend spend in the transfer window, but low and behold Lucas Neill just done his ligaments (2nd injury since signing afaik) and Upson got injured in his debut.

I honestly think relegation beckons, which would be quite a finale to a weird season at Upton Park. There was a thread on here not too long ago about the sacking of Pardew and questions were asked as to whether Curbishley was a step up. I doubted Curbishley and their spending, in my opinion, has been quite irrational. Upson was playing championship football, what makes him worth £6m is beyond me. And Lucas Neill £60k a week?!

Look at 'arry at Pompey as an example of how to be shrewd while spending, he's picked up some gems but still has financial backing if he wants to go over the odds. Curbishley could learn a lot from Redknapp IMO and I have to say there has been far too much drama at West Ham this season and I can only see it ending in tears.

Any Hammers on boards??

edit: thread title changed

PHB

I said at the time of the changes that I didn't think Curbs was a big step up from Pardew, and wasn't even sure it was a step up at all. Currently, the team that looks more likely to stay is up Charlton.

redspider

I'm not a Hammer, but there were several people 'blowing bubbles' (or stonger stuff) when they bought West Ham and at the end of this season most of the fans will find solace in doing likewise!

I think they will go down and the loss yesterday (even if undeserved) was crucial. There is a lot that has gone on at the club. The major change is of course the ownership. They have, like many owners, big ambitions, and are putting in the money, yet the situation has contrived against them. I dont have confidence in them as football people given what I have heard the main chap say. The takeover melee also affected the team as did the Tevez/Mascherano and their 'owners' thing. Then, sacking Pardew was not a wise move in my opinion as he had brought the team up with promotion etc.

Curbishley is not as good as perhaps he thinks he is, and whilst he helped Charlton punch above their weight for a long time, he is on a par with Pardew which I said at the time. In time, he should do okay at West Ham, but they dont have time on their hands.

It looks like relegation to me ..... for two out of Charlton and West Ham and Wigan. Watford will be relegated.

Redspider

PHB

Sheff United and Man City might still get dragged into it, but I'd say Man City have the quality to hold up.

West Ham going down will see a lot of their players leave. I can't imagine Reo-Coker, Anton Ferdinand, Lee Bowyer, Yossi Benayoun, Luis Boa Morte, Dean Ashton or Carlos Tevez will stay at the club in the championship.

Necronomicon

PHB wrote:

Sheff United and Man City might still get dragged into it, but I'd say Man City have the quality to hold up.

West Ham going down will see a lot of their players leave. I can't imagine Reo-Coker, Anton Ferdinand, Lee Bowyer, Yossi Benayoun, Luis Boa Morte, Dean Ashton or Carlos Tevez will stay at the club in the championship.

AFAIK Lucas Neill and Upson have get-out clauses in their contract as well should they be relegated.

I always liked Pardew. People talk about Curbs and the job he did with Charlton, getting them to the Premiership and making them an established side, even bringing them to the brink of Europe. But Pardew had one of the toughest jobs in football when he took over at West Ham. Their biggest players left and he had to make the team his own. Getting the team into the Premiership was a big achievement in itself, but getting into Europe and a cup final in their first season back was amazing. The new owners were much too quick to pull the trigger imo, and I really hope Charlton beat West Ham in the survival race.

Savman

I just think that somewhere in all of this, there's a footballing lesson. Maybe the club got carried away with a Cup Final cameo because since then it certainly seems they have let the off-field stuff make the headlines while on the field they've been poor. Granted they should have got a result at home to Watford, but it would be unfair if Harewood was scapegoated based on that penalty miss alone, there are several other "stars" in that squad who would do their end-of-season hopes a whole world of good by upping their game.

It's almost like West Hams players are now tainted goods and their market value may not be as high because in truth they've all played a part in the demise. It's a lose lose situation really but the lack of leadership on and off the field is shocking.

therecklessone

Necromomicon wrote:

and I really hope Charlton beat West Ham in the survival race.

I think both are going down TBH, can't see either side getting 18-20pts from their remaining 11 games to drag themselves out of the relegation zone.

Savman

Necromomicon wrote:

AFAIK Lucas Neill and Upson have get-out clauses in their contract as well should they be relegated.

Exactly, and that's gotta be bad business to have a clause for two new signings to leave in the summer?!
Madness. But after the Tevez/Masch deal it's hardly surprising.

The Muppet

Whoever was responsible fro the arrival of Teves and Macherano has al ot to answer for at West Ham. I believe their the nature of their arrival upset team spirit and they will pay dearly by being relegated this season .

Chardee MacDennis

thats crap - 2 international players do not come in and make the rest of the squad rubbish.

players have not been up for it this season like NRC, heads got too big after a great season last year. they may have been upset bout T & M coming in but most pros would have seen this as a opportunity to step up and prove their quality, which zamora did at the start of the season to keep Tevez out.

What happened with Mascherano i havent a clue. The Hammers have only themselves to blame

mike65

Perm 3 from 6?

Sheff Utd----27

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30
Man City

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26

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30
Wigan

---

25

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25
West Ham---27

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20
Charlton

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27

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20
Watford

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26

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18

Wigan have the 'advantage' of two games in hand over Charlton and Watford
as I type. While the Blades and Citeh have 10 points cushion. I think the current bottom 3 will go down.

Mike.

leninbenjamin

mike65 wrote:

Wigan have the 'advantage' of two games in hand over Charlton and Watford
as I type. While the Blades and Citeh have 10 points cushion. I think the current bottom 3 will go down.

i reckon your spot on there mike, although only time will tell.

leeroybrown

The main worry I would have for West Ham is that Curbishley has never struck me as a natural motivator. Aside from the money spent a lot of Redknapp's success last season was down his enthusiasm being able to motivate a team in a short space of time. I think that this is something what will be helping Pardew a lot at Charlton at the moment.

Sheffield United are in a great position. They are very solid at home and each of West Ham, Wigan and Watford still have to go there. They also have Charlton away to come.

PHB

I think that Wigan are in an incredible rut, 8 games lost, then a win, but they've just lost another game they really shouldn't have. I think they could easily be one of the three to go down. Also, I wouldn't write off Watford just yet either, they could be on 21 points if they win their game in hand.

redzerdrog

I think if wigan had of held on the win yesterday it would be all over for the bottom 3 but now they have a glimmer of hope altough i still think the bottom 3 are staying there.

sofireland

i think the current three at teh bottom are going down.
Wigan were robbed yesterday!

Xavi6

PHB wrote:

Sheff United and Man City might still get dragged into it, but I'd say Man City have the quality to hold up.

Where's this 'quality' you speak of? If we have it then it certainly hasn't been on show lately. It would come as no surprise if we were dragged into the relegation batlle. It's happened many a time before.

Raskolnikov

It's crazy how West Ham have imploded so spectacularily, again. It seems to be mirroring the 2003 season where they were relegated despite having Defoe, Joe Cole, Carrick, Glen Johnson, Kanoute, Di Canio, etc. At this stage, I think they have maybe a 1 in 5 chance of staying up.

Revelation Joe

Hammers fan here.
Either the players we had last season overacheived by a huge amount or they aren't playing to their potential this season.
My theory is the second one. Nigel Reo-Coker has been nowhere near as good as last season, nor has Anton Ferdinand. Ashton's injury is a major factor, I think Pardew would have planned most of his tactics around Deano.
There seems to be *something* amiss with either the training methods or medical setup, as too many players are getting recurring injuries such as Gabbidon, Ferdinand and Etherington.
IMO, getting rid of Pardew was a mistake although there are a lot of rumours flying about his off-the-field activities, so I don't know if that decision was made solely for footballing reasons...
On the subject of Redknapp, personally I'm glad he left WHU. He wasted the money we got for Rio Ferdinand on donkeys like Titi Camara and Rigobert Song.

Reganio 2

Revelation Joe wrote:

..... on donkeys like Titi Camara and Rigobert Song.

both have played for Liverpool and both got a good few run-outs.
But back on topic I like West Ham and I like Wigan but I want Man.City to stay up if only so I get to see Stephen Ireland more, I also feel sorry for Watford their manager seems like a nice bloke and they have played well in the majority of their games but have been unlucky. But if I had to choose who would go down in the bottom 6 I think I would have to pick the bottom 3. Actually I want Arsenal to get relegated .... yeah thats a good idea that would put Lehmann where he should be the Championship.

God I hate Arsenal.

Carcharodon

I think the next 3 games will decide Watfords future, game in hand with the two above them and then 3 home games against Wigan, Everton and Charlton.

Charltons next four games should see them either sink or float, West Ham (H), Watford (A), Newcastle (H) and Wigan (H).

West Ham have Charlton next and then they probably have the hardest run in with Man U, Cheslsea, Arsenal, Bolton, Tottenham...really dont see them picking up too many points unless they have a complete turn around.

Wigans next game against Watford is extremely important to them, lose and they are right in the middle of the relegation battle.

Man City and Shef United could still be draged into it but I think they will scrape by and probably rely on the teams below them to struggle rather than them playing well.

I think Charlton have shown a bit of character by playing good football and would love to see them go on a bit of a run.
Could be too little too late for Watford, have probably reached their high point now and might go back to strugling, they dont have the quality....
West Ham look like the team in most trouble, playing woeful football.
Wigan punching above their weight, held together by Jewell, dont know for how much longer he can keep them going.

thebaz

Everton were accused of being a small club last week, but wigans reaction to the Arsenal match confirms what we already know -- they are a small club. Yes they should have got a pen, although Heskey could have stayed on his feet, Arsenal scored a legit goal , that was dissalowed , and Wigan react as if there is a conspiracy against them . No conspiracy, lost a match they should have drawn , but please stop going for the sympathy vote , about conspiracies, and just get on with it !

Chardee MacDennis

we know Wigan are a small club, like Everton, so what does this point add to the thread?

thebaz

Call_me_al wrote:

we know Wigan are a small club, like Everton, so what does this point add to the thread?

Thats right everton are small club like Wigan , we've been stuck in the Premiership for how many years now , gates of 40,000 , and were really struggling with relegation this year along with the other small clubs .

My point is Wigan whinging, is to buy favours from referees for future games , so they get the 50-50 decisions

loyatemu

there is no dogfight - WHU, Charlton and Watford are doomed.
I think the top 4 isn't going change much either (bar Arse overtaking Pool) - season's practically over already.

As for Man City - aren't they in a worse position now than when Stuart Pearce took over? They did ****e last season as well, yet no-one is questioning his ability, he's even been appointed under-21 coach by the FA!