How do you feel about the property market and what is your situation.

iguana

This is a similar question to that in Muji's stickied poll, but this thread is one for personal situations and outlooks. I'd rather it didn't turn into a facts and figures debate, (there is enough of that on most other threads here) but is about poster's personal situations, hopes, fears and predictions on the property market.

Are you old or young, single or in a couple, Irish at home, Irish abroad or non-Irish in Ireland? Employed or in college, a parent or living with your parents? Do you own, do you hope to own, do you rent, have you sold, are you a landlord? And do you think prices will continue to rise, drop or level off. And if they do how will you personally be affected.

I'm just curious as to how much people's views on the property market are coloured by their own hopes/fears.

Personally as my husband and I live and own in London but would like to return to Dublin in the future, a price crash would suit me. I would only consider returning to Dublin if I could live within 3k's of the centre and I need a decent size garden. Stoneybatter is top of my "sort of realistic" list, as it is very close to the centre and Pheonix Park (my dogs need a lot of exercise), followed by Glasnevin. Both are out of my current price range, especially once stamp-duty is taken into account. Even with TRS (does it still exist?), the lower interest rates and lack of council tax.

If we have children I'd prefer to stay home, so we need a mortgage that's do-able on one salary. As we are relatively young 28 & 29, we could take a longer term mortgage than our current 24/25 years, though I'd rather be able to take a mortgage that is the same lenght overall, so if we bought in 3 years we'd be doing so with a mortgage of 21 years or even less. All of this becomes unlikely if the market is rising in Dublin as currently the type of house I'd like, in a location I'd like is around €600k.

Luckily for me I bought in an undervalued area of London and the market has risen a lot since we bought. We now own about 45% of our house at it's current value (stg£325k) outright. House prices in most of London are expected to rise by at least 30% by 2010, but more so in this area due to it's relative cheapness and huge amount of redevelopment.

What I suspect, and hope for, is that prices here will continue to rise and that in Ireland they will slow down, perhaps dip a little and then rise at a slow rate for the next decade or so. I have no idea after that. I don't know how much of what I believe is based on what suits me and my plans as with that scenario we could return to Dublin with lower repayments and be paid up by 2030-ish. But the Dublin market is insane. It does not have the same supply and demand issues that exist in London. It has crap infastructure, sh!tty roads, pathetic public transport, far fewer public facilities like libraries, swimming pools, gyms and parks as London. You get far, far less for your money. (Yet I think I want to return:(. I guess it's the option of 3rd level education without the crippling debt for my future kids.) There is no good reason for prices to be similar, let alone higher than they are in London, I do believe that something's got to give.

If prices really did crash in Ireland in the next few years we would benefit enormously on a selfish level. The damage to the ecomomy would be of little consequence to us as we don't live there. And a reduction of 30% in a house we want would allow us to buy there without selling up here (or at least buying a cheaper London home further out), which would be my ultimate dream as my husband's work will always involve him spending time in London. So a home in Dublin where we want to live, and one in London where we will sometimes have to live would be fantastic - it's not about investment, but quality of life. But I don't see anything like that happening. At least not to family houses in the centre of Dublin, in the commuter suburbs I think it's a very real possibility. (Probability even?)

I consider myself extremely lucky not to be faced with the buy now or rent and wait dilema in Dublin right now. Though I do wish I bought there 4 years ago, as I could have managed a 3-bed semi in Harolds Cross or Kilmainham back then or an even better house in Stoneybatter or Glasnevin. But I was absolutely convinced there would be a huge crash at any moment so I refused and spent €35k on rent in the intervening time instead.:(

bill_ashmount

iguana wrote:

Are you old or young, single or in a couple, Irish at home, Irish abroad or non-Irish in Ireland? Employed or in college, a parent or living with your parents? Do you own, do you hope to own, do you rent, have you sold, are you a landlord? And do you think prices will continue to rise, drop or level off. And if they do how will you personally be affected.

Young, single and bought a few years ago (2-3). Can currently manage the mortgage with no issues, so am extremely happy. Have no intention of selling or trading up at the moment. I keep an occasional eye on the market purely out of curiosity but actually find it somewhat disheartening by how some people seem to be completly obsessed with it (Both bulls and bears).

The thing that amazes me most is the amount of gloom around. I'll be the first to admit that there is a lot wrong in this country, but in a worldwide context we are incredibly well off (And i don't just mean financially).

Rabies

I'm 27, planned on buying a house this summer or winter. Would have been some where in the midlands.

Changed my mind towards the end of last year. Left my job and Ireland for NZ. Didn't work for a few months and I have spent most of my money but that is what I wanted.

Looking here at the property market, you can get so much more for your money than back home. The downfall is the wages are not as high, so it evens out a bit.

My thoughts lately are to work here for a while more, go back to Ireland at the end of the year to work andsave. Then apply for residency in NZ, and get a nice place here for cheaper.

Some great homes for NZ$300-400k (e150-200k) around here.

cold_filter

Buying hopefully in the next couple of months, seen a house we like in tallaght and it seems like a nice area, my gf is very insistent on buying asap though im a bit more hesitent, we've saved our asses off for the last year, and she is using her SSIA for it aswell and to buy a house and then a few months later for the house to lose 30% in value i would cry a whole lot, though on the + side its near the extension for the luas and city west shopping centre, heres hoping for the boom to go on!!

seamus

I'm 24, and myself and the girlfriend had planned on buying in the Dublin suburbs late last year (in fact we had a deposit on a place at one point). Circumstances have changed dramatically now, so we're not entirely sure what we're going to do now. She's still very eager to buy a home of our own, but accepts my new standpoint of holding off till the early summer to see how the market pans out.

Any kind of mortgage at the moment would put us under some financial strain for 3 or 4 years, though we'll manage. My issue is that I don't want a €300k mortgage now, and end up with a house worth less than that in 4 years' time. The increase in interest rates also means that we're continually seeing our budget squeezed harder and harder for the same property.

I'm personally erring on the side of renting myself for a while (a year or two if needs be). She's technically not working at the moment, so we could use that time to save a bit more cash and stabilise/increase both our personal cashflows. Since she's living at home, that also saves more money.

So clearly a dip/crash in the market would suit us hugely. We're both working in industries where a crash wouldn't have a massive economic impact on us except maybe for slowing/stalling any pay increases. My only problem is that we have families with a fairly substantial amount of money invested in their own properties. While they'd survive any crash, it would be rough going for a while.

warrenaldo

I am 25 years old and saving my ass off- like cold filter was. I cant afford a place in Dublin so I am on the affordable Housing list for SDCC for the past year waiting and waiting and waitng. Very frustrated - I have a decent job. Getting paid decent money. But still cannot get a place of my own. Only hope is this affordable Housing - which judging by my wait so far - looks never ending.

People like bill_ashmount dont realise that for first time buyers at the moment - its extremely dificult. And we dont have much hope. thats why there is so much gloom around.

I have 2 options - rent and wait (for what)
or
Stay at home with parents.

cold_filter

i think who has bought their home in the last 3 years or so is in the same boat, as even after 3 years you might only own a single digit percentage of your house. so a big crash will hurt a lot of people.

My friend and his Gf have an apartment in south dub they bought i for300k its now worth 330-340, they want to sell it and move to a 2 bed terrace (400k)

which is in need to major refurb(100k) so all together they'll probably have a mortgage of 450ish and the area isnt that nice its just close to things, if a crash happens they'll lose 150k on the price of it, crazy and scary

cold_filter

Sorry to keeping going on in this thread, but my friend and his gf got an apartment in the affordable housing thing and its really nice but if a crash happens they'll suffer too, not as much though.
Warrenalso is right, another friend of mine earns about 30k ish a year maybe upto 5k more if he wants a house he'll need to move to wexford and commute up everyday, its impossible to buy by yourself unless you are either earning 50-60k a year or have a hige lump sum

warrenaldo

ye i think its just a matter of waiting on the affordable housing for me - although having already waited a year you can probably understand the frustration people have with it.

im on a little bit more than your friend(40 +) and still it looks like if i wanted to buy it would be wexford for me.
The whole sitation is a bit of a joke. I cant even afford a friggen 1 bed appartment.
And why should I buy a 1 bed appartment. Its like buying a mars bar for €10 - its madness. total rip off.

warrenaldo

warrenaldo wrote:

Its like buying a mars bar for €10 - its madness. total rip off.

Yeah its a total rip off - look at the types of housing being built its all tiny apartments and tiny townhouses for big big prices!! Our parents generation bought proper houses in estates with 20 to 25 year mortgages. Inflation helped them pay the mortgage back.
This is the biggest cartel/rip off/scandal in the history of the state if you ask me

warrenaldo

fully agree.

Noelie

bought this time last year with my g/f, cost 355K and is in stepaside, new units sold recently for 395K so if things stay like they are at the minute we are grand, we could even survive with a 10% fall, but i for one don't really see this happening.

we are making do quite well, we are both 28, I'm only 2 years into my career so my wages should hopefully start to climb to give ourselves a more comfortable life style, we both have some saving which will get us through any tough times ahead, and we both have folks who would be able to help us out if we were to be really stuck.

We've got a 35 year mortgage which was fixed for two years, only one year left of that, if interest rates stay stable for the next 4-5 years and we both stay in employment i think we will be fine

I do think properties are very dear in this country but i can't really see them coming down, I believe that they will stop growing as quickly and we may only see low or perhaps no increases in the short term future. but that is just what i believe, not wanting to divert this thread off course like other are already doing.

Noelie

Noelie wrote:

not wanting to divert this thread off course like other are already doing.

the thread title does ask how we feel about the property market! so its on topic.

I bought 4 years ago - I was young foolish and racing to buy before the price got higher!!
Sold up spring/early summer 2006 I saw the signs and acted on them.
No intention of buying again (if I stay in Ireland) for the foreseeable future.
Currently in Australia sussing out life down under.

Property in Ireland - as we all know - is ridiculously overpriced.
In most if not all new developments the majority of houses are townhouses under 1200 Sq ft. There was a time when developments mainly consisted of 3 bed semi detached house.

In short what we have is a lower standard of housing with a much higher price. Its a disgrace. Wake up people.
I do believe that people are beginning to realise the nonsense that has been going on.

ambro25

Moved to Dublin just over a couple of years ago, with family in tow.

Good position, good pay, good prospects, crash-safe readily-transferable skills.

Found the perfect rent - big semi, with garden, south side, less than 7k to the Green and half of what mortgage would be, friendly landlord who let me have the place totally empty for our own stuff (of which there was/is much).

Used to own in France (100% ownership), had a mortgage in UK (got to 75% ownership at time of sale), now property free, fully liquid with nice appreciation. In joint ownership of family property back in France.

Not looking to buy in Ireland, ever. Whether I stay another year or another 20. Common sense re. property in IE and Dublin especially appears (IMHO) to have gone out the window years ago, even before I got here - half a million €s at least (proba. €600 by now) for the kind of semi I live in is, any which way you look at it, absolutely mental. No matter whether you have to financially stretch for it or not: it just is not worth it - in terms of value for money as a buyer for living in, or in terms of risk as an investor for capitalising.

tHE vAGGABOND

I’m in the market to buy somewhere right now and have been looking at places for a short while. I'm hoping to buy an apartment in central Dublin soon. I don’t drive, and my mates live all over the shop, so I need to be central. When I buy I’m aiming to live there for a while, so a short term downturn is no concern for me.

I returned from a good while living in London about 5 or 6 months ago. I need to get out of home and get back into my own place. After living away from home for 7 or 8 years it’s not easy being back home sometimes. I’m lucky that I’m totally debt free atm, so any short term increases in interest rates is not a huge issue.

I don’t think we will have some dramatic property crash tbh. As someone actively looking at places right now, there is a big demand for *good* places. I looked at a nice place near Christchurch last Tuesday [380k]; it was gone the next day. On Saturday I looked at a fantastic house in Tallaght [420k], and it was sale agreed later that same day. Now if a place is a dump, it may take longer to sell and the price may have to drop to sell it but that’s not a crash or a downturn, that’s people becoming educated that builders got away with bloody murder in the 80's and 90's and built dumps and that you can find good modern places with space and facilities if you hunt around

But even if there were a crash [which, again, I don’t think there will be], I don’t think it will effect a modern decent sized apartment in the center of Dublin [where I want to buy]. I think people will always want to live in Central Dublin, regardless of what is going on in the world, and regardless of how bad things get. I think where it would hit is places in the commuter belt, places like Lucan [and beyond] where there were a gigantic amount of houses for sale over the last number of years and then indeed apartment’s in regional towns like Sligo which have sold over the last number of years with Sandyford prices.

scaldybelt

Married, both early thirties, with a newborn.
Moving back home from UK, house sale going through there, will be renting for the next year - by choice - to see how the market pans out before buying.

Will be living (renting) near a commuter town as we prefer the country and commuting has never bothered us. (Always reckoned that quality of life is better where the air is fresh, the view has little concrete and the neighbours aren't on the other side of your sittingroom/bedroom wall.)

Have a perm job secured in the outskirts of Dublin and if prices don't soar (unlikely from all that I read recently alongside recent major job losses) then we can easily afford the house we want.

However, if in 12+ months the prices have dropped in the outlying commuter towns, then we will be in a far better situation. I suspect that even if prices don't fall dramatically, there will probably be more houses to choose from.

....in the meantime, our rent for a property similar to what we would buy is less than half our affordable mortgage.

Worst case scenario - I lose my job; then it just means earning more - but commuting by airplane:( .

scaldybelt

Ignore my Mad Smilie at the top of my post - I'm all

ronbyrne2005

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

I’m in the market to buy somewhere right now and have been looking at places for a short while. I'm hoping to buy an apartment in central Dublin soon. I don’t drive, and my mates live all over the shop, so I need to be central. When I buy I’m aiming to live there for a while, so a short term downturn is no concern for me.

I returned from a good while living in London about 5 or 6 months ago. I need to get out of home and get back into my own place. After living away from home for 7 or 8 years it’s not easy being back home sometimes. I’m lucky that I’m totally debt free atm, so any short term increases in interest rates is not a huge issue.

I don’t think we will have some dramatic property crash tbh. As someone actively looking at places right now, there is a big demand for *good* places. I looked at a nice place near Christchurch last Tuesday [380k]; it was gone the next day. On Saturday I looked at a fantastic house in Tallaght [420k], and it was sale agreed later that same day. Now if a place is a dump, it may take longer to sell and the price may have to drop to sell it but that’s not a crash or a downturn, that’s people becoming educated that builders got away with bloody murder in the 80's and 90's and built dumps and that you can find good modern places with space and facilities if you hunt around

But even if there were a crash [which, again, I don’t think there will be], I don’t think it will effect a modern decent sized apartment in the center of Dublin [where I want to buy]. I think people will always want to live in Central Dublin, regardless of what is going on in the world, and regardless of how bad things get. I think where it would hit is places in the commuter belt, places like Lucan [and beyond] where there were a gigantic amount of houses for sale over the last number of years and then indeed apartment’s in regional towns like Sligo which have sold over the last number of years with Sandyford prices.

Well according to DAFT report for last 6months of 2006 asking prices for one and two beds in city centre dropped by 25k. Maybe waiting another year or two will see even greater drops.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=52714418&postcount=434

tHE vAGGABOND

No one is saying things are still growing at 20% pa, thank the lord things are slowing down! Slow down ftw!

But you cant forget that there was feck all happening in late Q3 and most of Q4 2006, as everyone waited to see what would happen to stamp duty in the December Budget. Pretty much the entire country thought he would do something with stamp duty, right up to the last week before the budget when word started coming out that he would not touch it...

Having actually looked a fair few city center apartments now, the ones that are not selling are the tiny places built in the 80's and 90's which are tiny and with no outside space etc. There are also a fair amount of 1 bed places in and around dublin, which banks dont want to lend you money to buy and which seem to therefore hang around the marker for a while

ronbyrne2005

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

No one is saying things are still growing at 20% pa, thank the lord things are slowing down! Slow down ftw!

But you cant forget that there was feck all happening in late Q3 and most of Q4 2006, as everyone waited to see what would happen to stamp duty in the December Budget. Pretty much the entire country thought he would do something with stamp duty, right up to the last week before the budget when word started coming out that he would not touch it...

Having actually looked a fair few city center apartments now, the ones that are not selling are the tiny places built in the 80's and 90's which are tiny and with no outside space etc. There are also a fair amount of 1 bed places in and around dublin, which banks dont want to lend you money to buy and which seem to therefore hang around the marker for a while

Apartments still seem to be falling from what i've observed or at least theres loads for sale on daft and myhome. Theres so many apartments being built in Dublin that theres bound to be an oversupply if not now then over next few years and prices will continue to fall.
My friend bought a one bed apartment in Dublin7 around 2.5 years ago and at same time another friend bought a small ex-council house in Dublin7. Both paid around 250-270k but now the one bed aprtment is for sale for only 290k while the house sold last august for 425k. The point is apartments have'nt risen by any where near the same amount as houses and are now starting to fall due to massive numbers being built.

cold_filter

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

My friend bought a one bed apartment in Dublin7 around 2.5 years ago and at same time another friend bought a small ex-council house in Dublin7. Both paid around 250-270k but now the one bed aprtment is for sale for only 290k while the house sold last august for 425k. The point is apartments have'nt risen by any where near the same amount as houses and are now starting to fall due to massive numbers being built.

Agree witht this statement, obviously as you can go up with apartments you can build more of them so in the next few years apartments will be cheaper as there wil be som many of them. then as houses are relatively becoming a smaller proportion of the housing market their price will increase

tHE vAGGABOND

I do see what your saying, and there is logic there.

But dont forget that banks dont want to lend people money for 1 bed places. I have 4 banks offering me a very healthy amount to buy a 2 or 3 bed place [via broker], they would only offer me a tiny fraction of that for a 1 bed place [and only 1 or 2 of them would offer me anything for a 1 bed place].

Paulw

I bought a 3 bed apt in Nov 2005 for 280k.

My neighbour below sold theirs about 6 months ago for 360k.

My repayments are ok. I'm living alone right now.

I'm not overly concerned about the market taking a slowdown or even a bit of a downturn.

It won't effect me since I have no where else to go, and I'm happy enough with what I have. :rolleyes:

dame

Couple, 20's, one child, two houses, one apartment. First house bought 9 years ago, second one 4 years ago, apartment two years ago. Not too worried about crash - all are in areas where there will always be demand and they were bought at good prices and fixed up (houses), apartment bought off plan and worth a lot more now even though it's still not finished. Could afford for everything to fall by a lot without us losing money on them overall, but obviously would prefer if they stay stable or don't fall at all!

Sponge Bob

Paulw wrote:

It won't effect me since I have no where else to go

That describes my situation too, I am left with a strangely illiquid €800k asset as it cannot be replaced with anything decent so I may as well stay in it.

You may take it that if I could sell it for €800k and buy it back some time later for €500k then I would sell it.

My problem is in buying back in , thats difficult where I live .

copacetic

bought my apt in south dublin in summer 05, conservatively worth about 25% more than I paid for it. Not worried about prices really because the location seems likely to hold out better than most and don't believe 25% fall is likely anyway..

godtabh

I'm just 25.

left college got a job and rather than go the Oz with my mates I saved up for a deposit and started looking for a place this time last year. Bought a place of plans in March of last year and should be moving in, in the next week or two.

The house market will go up and down. if I was an investor I would be ****ting myself. But if its your home and your there long time I dont think you have anything to worry about.

My apartment went up €20k in two weeks ( two phases of same blocks released at different dates) so either way over the long time I should have a soft landing if anything happens

rick_fantastic

23 male, single, working full time, masters part-time.

in process of buying house south dublin. deposit down and waiting on results of survey on the property before i sign contracts.

borrowing a large amount of money so im a little worried bout the financial implications (ie 50k negative to pay stamp and refurbish)

going to live in and rent out the rest of it. ex council house 5mins from dundrum.

musiknonstop

Early thirties, reasonable wage, renting with strangers for the last 10 years and tired of it. I've been on the affordable housing lists for SDCC and DLR for over a year now, and don't hold out much hope there. For a laugh I applied for a mortgage late last year and was offered 230K over 37 years. No thanks.

I'm looking into moving abroad now, as I don't see my future in Dublin (or Ireland for that matter).

alienhead

30, bought 4 bed house with a mate 2 years ago for 317,500.

prob worth around the 400k mark now.

rented for 5 years prior to this, so just happy i'm not renting, and living somewhere i'd like to live, rather than some town miles away from anything.

will prob stay in current house for another 3 years, then sell up and get our own houses.

can't see us making a killing like people who bought, say 5+ years ago, but not too bothered, as long as we get a decent enough return.

bico

Iguana

I wouldn’t wait too long to purchase you dream ( redbrick terrace I guess) in an area like Stoneybatter or Glasnevin , as I doubt that prices for properties like these are likely to fall by much, if at all.
As pointed out correctly the stock of these houses are limited in an area where densities are on the increase .
DIT is building a new campus on the former Grangegorman hospital site ,which will mean demand from academics and students alike .
The new metro line linking the airport with the city will go through these suburbs , which will make it a desirable location for people like yourselves who need to commute between countries on a regular basis.
The value of properties in the area are very reasonable compared to the location ,an equal distance from town to the south in suburbs, like Ranelagh or Donnybrook , where you’ll pay double the price for a similar house.
Another factor to keep in mind is that the Dublin Development plan and new legislation on the size of apartments and sustainable development will increase the cost of new built properties substantially , so the chance of new homes being flogged on the market at cut prices are not likely . What’s more likely to happen is that developers will stop building houses.

Regarding my own situation ,I bought a one bed apartment in the centre at the end of 2005 and am feeling the increase in interest rates. However similar units in the next phase are now selling for 20% more . I worked out that if I decided at the time to rent the apartment instead and save the difference between the rent and mortgage payments with managemen t costs It would have taken me another 23 years of saving to make up the 20% increase in one year. That is if everything stayed as is.
OK , I have to find ways to sleep at night !