I.T jobs

segasega

Mods feel free to move this but just thought the techy heads here might have a good answer to this. And sorry cause I know this is going to sound stupid to some people.

I am currently working as an office junior. I only doing this as a temp solution. I would like to get a job in some area of I.T or something, but generally any job that involves using/maintaining/setting up computers. Only problem is, I have no qualifications in this area. I don't really have the option of going back to college full time,due to a number of reasons, mainly money. So I was wondering if there is any companies that would offer any sort of an apprenticeship type scheme in any area of I.T. As in you go work for them while they train you and you get a minimum salary. Or is my best bet night courses?

Tom Dunne

segasega wrote:

So I was wondering if there is any companies that would offer any sort of an apprenticeship type scheme in any area of I.T. As in you go work for them while they train you and you get a minimum salary.

I don't know if there are any companies that would do this. Your best bet might be to get an entry-level position in an IT position and do night courses. I teach night courses and the students are in two distinct camps: those working in entry level IT positions wanting to get a better job and those working on non-IT jobs, but wanting to get an IT related position.

SantaHoe

IMO employers have their pick of graduates for any role like this, the whole problem (for you) is that they don't need to take someone on and train them... they can pick any desperate schmuck who's already up to speed and still pay them a pittance.
Maybe in the late 90's they'd have done this, but it's so competitive out there now that even for shítty entry-level positions; you're going up against people with computer science degrees, MCSE, Cisco... the works.
If you're starting out from square one... all I can say is it's going to be a looong road.

Although you could try for a job in tech support... generally they just want someone who can speak and sit in a chair without falling off or cursing... so it's not like there are huge entry requirements.
If you get somewhere good, they'll provide study time when work is quiet... so over the course of a few years of doing this, you'll end up with a few certs under your belt.
Not to mention learning tons of very practical real-world troubleshooting techniques... if you're paying attention at least.
And it's relevant experience to slap on your CV.

The only problem with doing it this way is that you'll likely go completely mental after a few months doing tech support... so if you do go this route, have a 'Plan B' for when they let you out of the padded cell.

CyberGhost

This is a great thread,

Have to steal it a bit(sorry segasega)

I'm in the same position as segasega, except I have an A+ certification from comptia, and Network+ knowledge, I have a pretty good general computer knowledge, both hardware and software(although I can't program,... yet).

I always wanted to work as a sys/net admin(I think this is what segasega wants too) for some company, but I know that I can't do that without having some proper certs..., thought of going to college, but IMHO it does not really make much difference when being hired, seeing as how many computer science graduates work as tech support guys.

So my question really is... what certifications do I need to have a good chance at securing a systems admin position(hopefully with 45-50k/yr)? MCSA? CompTIA certs?

And also, with my current knowledge what IT job can I possibly have? I have applied to maplins, but later changed my mind, cause there I'd basically be a sales man, thought of applying to eircom's tech support department, anyone have any other job ideas please?

ntlbell

They're a number of ways you could get some experience.

I would give places like Laser in Dundrum a call who are a local PC shop who do repairs/upgrades etc and ask them would they be willing to give you some work experience on the weekend., you could also try some of the Irish web hosting companies like blacknight.ie who are very good about offering work experience.

The Tallaght Volunteer Bureau would also be close and are always looking for Volunteer’s to do various IT work.

If you’re willing you could buy a book and self study something like the A+ or N+ which might get you a foot in the door for an entry level IT position.

If you can build a small network at home, start off with a project like building a DNS server or a mail server and don’t be afraid to put it on your CV yes you may have no experience supporting it in the real world but you will be able to answer questions on it and prove you have a genuine interest in learning and you don’t need your hand held.

majiktripp

My 2 cents on this after working IT for the last 3 years being more a less a green horn like yourself starting off (experience wise anyways,I have the relavent qualifications otherwise...) is that the IT sector is one of the least respected areas of emplyment out there. I have found very few people who put a real value on its services provided (and not just the general public but businesses alike).
I do like my job and the company I work for, as computing is in my blood whether it be fixing VPN networks,spyware issues, the issues that even google doesn't have answers to...(and believe me there are a few..make it idiot proof and someone makes a better idiot) but I do find it rather disheartening knowing that very few people put stock in the service IT specialists provide,...jesus I'm rambling my point was meant to be that the I.T. industry while I like it , can be a cruel mistress so don't ever think its a glamorous employment and career choice!
Just be sure its the area you really really want to be involved in!

parliament

First of all don't set you sights too high initially , prepare to spend a couple of years doing a phone/desk job, if you are any good and you apply yourself you will get taken off the desk, if you are useless you won't, people with a real interest in IT can be spotted a mile off. Don't be disheartened when your boss knows less about IT than a trained monkey and its keeping you held back (less common these days but they do still exist) and don't expect magical salaries of 40-50k!! There are many people out there with 5+ years experience and have held a CCNA?MCSE etc for a year or 2 who still only earn 30-35k. Also don't base you studying too much on the job you see youself doing in 5 years as it may turn out not to be the field for you, keep your mind and options open, you don't want to spend ages learning to program only to find you hate it or vice versa, IT is a very broad sector

Tom Dunne

majiktripp wrote:

that the IT sector is one of the least respected areas of emplyment out there. I have found very few people who put a real value on its services provided (and not just the general public but businesses alike).

I agree. It's down to management. In the place where I work in my 9-5 job, it's old school management who just don't "get" IT.

The way to counter that is specialisation.

If you find a niche that is not your general IT technician type role, you will become more appreciated. For example, in my 9-5 job, I put a simple web report up that pulled basic financial information from our database and displayed it on a web page. The report was 5 lines on the web page and had a summary total at the end. The Ops manager was flabbergasted (no joke). He thought this was amazing that he could click a button and get this info all by himself, he didn't need to ask the IT manager for it. And get this - he could actually access this from his PC upstairs.

When an organisation begins to depend on IT and is shown how it can make their lives easier, then they will appreciate it, and consequently you.

But it's finding that niche that is the key for somebody starting out. That's why would suggest a general IT degree (or even diploma to get started) to give you an idea of what you may have a flair for.

youcancallmeal

I'm was in more or less the same position as you 'segasega' 2 years ago. I had no IT qualifications or work experience but I did have an interest in computers, building my own and all that jazz. So I went for an entry level tech support position with HP via CPL and got the job(I know a good few boardsies who have started out here). Pay isn't great but the experience is invaluable and serves as a stepping stone which is how I've now secured a new job doing desktop support for a small company which is pretty much what I've had in mind when I started out in IT so I'm delighted I'm also studying an IT course in the evening and over the last year I've got my A+ and I'm doing my N+ exam next week which should be no problem.

Bottom line its definitely possible to work your way up but it involves a lot of studying, hard graft and most importantly an interest in IT.

CyberGhost

youcancallme>al wrote:

I'm was in more or less the same position as you 'segasega' 2 years ago. I had no IT qualifications or work experience but I did have an interest in computers, building my own and all that jazz. So I went for an entry level tech support position with HP via CPL and got the job(I know a good few boardsies who have started out here). Pay isn't great but the experience is invaluable and serves as a stepping stone which is how I've now secured a new job doing desktop support for a small company which is pretty much what I've had in mind when I started out in IT so I'm delighted I'm also studying an IT course in the evening and over the last year I've got my A+ and I'm doing my N+ exam next week which should be no problem.

Bottom line its definitely possible to work your way up but it involves a lot of studying, hard graft and most importantly an interest in IT.

What's the salery in entry level tech support at HP? are they located in Dublin?

And what does desktop support involve? do you like... clean company computers from spyware and virus and upgrade them from time to time or what?

youcancallmeal

CyberGhost wrote:

What's the salery in entry level tech support at HP? are they located in Dublin?

And what does desktop support involve? do you like... clean company computers from spyware and virus and upgrade them from time to time or what?

Depends on what desk you get. Basically HP outsource first level support to many different companies worldwide. Depending on what level technical skill you have they place on a desk accordingly. My desk was supporting a major english company. We pretty much did everything from your basic active directory password resets to troubleshooting network issues. There is 2nd level support available for almost anything so it was up to you how far you go with a call before either fixing it or passing it to 2nd level. Salary is between 19 and 21k pa but I think this may have gone up. Keep an eye on the CPL.ie website and they are usually advertising every few months. Also from what I've heard there is loads of similar type entry level positions out there at the moment, the likes of IBM and Eircom have been thrown around a bit.

When I started on my desk you couldnt get a job unless your english was fluent, of around 20 people there then we only had around 2/3 foreign agents but their english was superb. Seems to be a situation now where these positions are being filled by eastern europeans because with semi-fluent english because there are not enough Irish workers willing to take the roles. Come to think of it of the last 5 people who started on my desk 3 were Polish, 1 Slovakian and 1 Irish. For the foreign workers their techincal skills are well above the level required for the job, their idea is to work on the desk to improve their english while the Irish are their to improve their technical skills Strange situation but its win-win for everyone I suppose.

Cuddlesworth

so..................

I'm the only person who skipped the help-desk job with no qualifications and went straight in as a technician? In the last 2 years?

srdb20

Cringing at the thought of my time in HP.

Pure soul destroying stuff!!!

I have to agree with parliament, that if you have an intrest and apply your self you will start to see the rewards, and eventually start moving up.

Also as Tom Dunne was saying getting a niche for yourself will help no end to increasing both your SALARY & Dependability

If they need you they'll pay you more!!!!:D :cool:

Just my opinion anyway.

youcancallmeal

srdb20 wrote:

Cringing at the thought of my time in HP.

Yep that'll happen. I reckon we should get a thread going to reminisce about all the 'good' times in HP I can think of at least 10 regular posters here off hand who have worked there, its like the McDonald's of IT.

feylya

TBH, HP is grand if you're anyway decent

ntlbell

krazy_8s wrote:

so..................

I'm the only person who skipped the help-desk job with no qualifications and went straight in as a technician? In the last 2 years?

Wow...

So after this statment you have no advice for the OP.

So the point of your post was...

BNC

Some good advice coming up in this thread.

I have worked in the IT sector for a long while now, well over 10 years. I would agree strongly with some of the points regarding IT not being a glamorous or well respected job when in your early years. In fact it can be quite menial at times i.e swapping keyboards, mice, screens etc. You would usually do all of this kind of thing when you first start.
As you move along though in your career, as Tom Dunne said, try to find something, a niche, thats not done by many people. Then the respect will come and you will be valued as an important part of the comapny.

OP, have you thought of applying for one of the Fás courses. I know there was a very good one running in Loughlinstown a few years ago, not sure if it still is. From memory it was the ""PC maintenance & Networks" course. They would arrange placements with companies at the end of the 1 year course. Quite a number of large name companies recruited from this.

Good luck anyway. (I used to live in Knocklyon by the way )

3greenrizla's

thanks segasega for starting this thread,

I am also looking to do a computer/IT course, partly for my own knowledge, partly because I dont want to waste all of my meger SSIA & partly because I wouldn't mind moving into the world of IT.

does ayone have any opinions about the courses here,
http://www.kilroyscollege.ie/course_category.php?id=9

I have been looking at the repair & upgrade course, as it would be probably a good starting point.

(I should have listened to my mother when she told me 15 years ago "study computers")

Tom Dunne

3greenrizla's wrote:

does ayone have any opinions about the courses here,
http://www.kilroyscollege.ie/course_category.php?id=9

As somebody who is teaching a very similar course to this, I would have my doubts about it.

Upgrading and repairing by it's very nature is hands-on. In my lab classes, I demonstrate, take questions and tell the students to go do what I did. It's a controlled environment, with known good hardware/software and facilitates learning. How can this be achieved through distance education? Are you willing to take apart your home PC to step through the course? What happens if something goes wrong? Who do you ask for help if your PC is lying on the floor in bits?

Also, the qualification at the end of it is a Kilroy's college diploma - how well recognised is that? They will of course tell you it's well recognised, but TBH, I wouldn't think it is worth the paper it is written on.

In case you think I am anti-distance education, I did my degree through Oscail, the national distance education center.

srdb20

OP

Like most people i started of doing call center stuff and after 6 months moved on...

Majority of people will do some time in a all center, just a stepping stone.

Oh and any computer related courses you do will not hurt your standing only increase it, you just have to decide if its the right one for you and if you could have spent your time and money doing a different course, i.e...more relavant to what ever aspect you want to get into.

Just my two cents:cool:

Jumpy

parliament wrote:

There are many people out there with 5+ years experience and have held a CCNA?MCSE etc for a year or 2 who still only earn 30-35k.

Then their fault is their own.
A CCNA and an MCSE on its own is a worthless piece of paper. But added to 5+ years of experience outside the desktop field then you should be on a minimum of 45k. There will always be chancers looking for cheap IT staff and dont believe you have to pay large amounts. But its only the clueless that accept jobs from them.

youcancallmeal

Jumpy wrote:

Then their fault is their own.
A CCNA and an MCSE on its own is a worthless piece of paper. But added to 5+ years of experience outside the desktop field then you should be on a minimum of 45k. There will always be chancers looking for cheap IT staff and dont believe you have to pay large amounts. But its only the clueless that accept jobs from them.

So your saying having 5+ years desktop support is useless?

3greenrizla's

tom dunne wrote:

As somebody who is teaching a very similar course to this, I would have my doubts about it.

Upgrading and repairing by it's very nature is hands-on. In my lab classes, I demonstrate, take questions and tell the students to go do what I did. It's a controlled environment, with known good hardware/software and facilitates learning. How can this be achieved through distance education? Are you willing to take apart your home PC to step through the course? What happens if something goes wrong? Who do you ask for help if your PC is lying on the floor in bits?

Also, the qualification at the end of it is a Kilroy's college diploma - how well recognised is that? They will of course tell you it's well recognised, but TBH, I wouldn't think it is worth the paper it is written on.

In case you think I am anti-distance education, I did my degree through Oscail, the national distance education center.

cheers for the advice, I was planning to use a few donated old & broken computers to work on when I was doing the course & leaving the laptop firmly intact. But I might have a look for somthing closer to home. working untill 8 most evenings isn't a help though.

mick.fr

youcancallme>al wrote:

So your saying having 5+ years desktop support is useless?

No I think his point was simply pointing out that if you have worked on the network infrastrucutre and not only help-line or desktop support you can certainly expect to earn 45k or more.

Jumpy

mick.fr wrote:

No I think his point was simply pointing out that if you have worked on the network infrastrucutre and not only help-line or desktop support you can certainly expect to earn 45k or more.

Yep, sorry, only checked back on this thread now, mick.fr has it right.

The pay rates for the industry are high, you should not be accepting low levels of pay, even if it does mean waiting until you find an IT Director with a clue on what the rates should be. Now you have to have some measure of sense and skill of course, but if you are capable of handling high levels of stress and a high workload then you should damn well get paid for it.

Graham

There are plenty of companies that will still take on staff with no commercial IT experience if they have an enthusiasm in and can demonstrate an aptitude for IT. That said, any qualifications you can show can only help.

Entry level helpdesk jobs may not even be technical initially, so if you have administrative experience, are IT literate and enthusiastic you're more than in with a chance.

I know that's exactly what one of the business units in the company I contract to is looking for at the moment.

I've watched within this company over the last few years while people have gone from:

Retail management -> Frontline support (log and pass) -> Frontline support (troubleshooting) -> 2nd line support

Catering -> Frontline support (log and pass) -> Frontline support (troubleshooting)

Have you tried contacting any of the companies you think you'd like to work for?

Raskolnikov

Getting a job with CPL/HP is probably the easiest way to get your foot on the ladder as an IT technician. The pay is really crap (€19K with no experience) but if you get a good position (big if) you can actually learn a lot. I think the key to doing well in a technician role in IT is to get a particular specialization. Lots of people have the typical CCNA/MCSE/etc but few have experience in technology such as SCADA or PLC programming.

mick.fr

Raskolnikov wrote:

Lots of people have the typical CCNA/MCSE/etc but few have experience in technology such as SCADA or PLC programming.

I have 3 MCSE and I do not know what SCADA or PLC programming is lol.
I guess I could google it.

mick.fr

Well ok SCADA and PLC not really IT related, but definitely industrial technologies...
I guess I missed something.

Jumpy

mick.fr wrote:

Well ok SCADA and PLC not really IT related, but definitely industrial technologies...
I guess I missed something.

This is an example of a chancer.

Jumpy

If I remember correctly, not only is it below minimum wage, but the englisch skills of the advertiser are a little off.