what was there before the big bang?

sme

i was watching the daily show last week and one of the guests was Neil deGrasse Tyson, who is the director of Hayden Planetarium and also a phd in astrophysics. he basically was reconfirming the big bang theory. and that got me thinking if the universe started from an extremely hot and dense state, where was that matter? if the universe encapsulates everything where did the matter that started the universe exist? obviously the matter which started the universe could not exist inside the universe.

so where was it?

DublinWriter

My personal theory is that there was a 'big crunch'. That all the matter in the previous universe attracted and came together under gravity, became unstable and resulted in the big bang.

Eventually all the matter in our current universe will lose the momentum from the last big bang, stop, and start to pull in on itself creating another big crunch, and so on.

With each iteration of the cycle, as more and more matter gets converted to energy, finally the universe will be a pretty empty place as there will be no matter left.

Think of it almost like a beat with a set frequency that gets quieter and quieter until it fades out completely.

Depressing, huh?

Son Goku

sme wrote:

i was watching the daily show last week and one of the guests was Neil deGrasse Tyson, who is the director of Hayden Planetarium and also a phd in astrophysics. he basically was reconfirming the big bang theory. and that got me thinking if the universe started from an extremely hot and dense state, where was that matter? if the universe encapsulates everything where did the matter that started the universe exist? obviously the matter which started the universe could not exist inside the universe.

so where was it?

If you roll the clock backward towards the Big Bang, you reach a point where tempertures become so extreme that the Electroweak Force and the Strong Nuclear Force merge into one Force.

If you roll the clock back further, it's not entirely clear that the concept of particles makes any sense. (It may become too hot for particles to exist as we know them).

Even further back Spacetime itself begins to melt away.

So the idea of when and where boils off.
Your question is then no longer even a sensical one. So the question becomes, what is the right question to ask?

aidan_walsh

Son Goku wrote:

If you roll the clock backward towards the Big Bang, you reach a point where tempertures become so extreme that the Electroweak Force and the Strong Nuclear Force merge into one Force.

If you roll the clock back further, it's not entirely clear that the concept of particles makes any sense. (It may become too hot for particles to exist as we know them).

Even further back Spacetime itself begins to melt away.

So the idea of when and where boils off.
Your question is then no longer even a sensical one. So the question becomes, what is the right question to ask?

sme

DublinWriter wrote:

Eventually all the matter in our current universe will lose the momentum from the last big bang, stop, and start to pull in on itself creating another big crunch, and so on.

i'm more of a fan of the infinite expansion theory where galaxies don't stop and retract but continue accelerating.

So the idea of when and where boils off.
Your question is then no longer even a sensical one. So the question becomes, what is the right question to ask?

ok, so time begins with the big bang, thats fine i get that. dublinwriter's theory of this universe being created from the death of another is interesting.
although, if the law of conservation of matter did not apply pre big bang everything can be nicely explained that way, ie the matter which was involved with the big bang just spontaneously appeared and hey presto a bright and shiny new universe.

i suppose it is the type of question that can never be answered. if scientists can recreate the moment of singularity that will answer a lot of things but you can never know what happened before the beginning.

pyxxel

...when God sat on his garden bench being a little bored and picking his nose. Having successfully extracted a nice lil booger, he flicked it onto the garden path where, on impact, it instantly created a new universe... US!!

Obviously, we will only exist until God gets up from his evening nap to trudge into his hut where Mrs God is preparing a nice cuppa tea for him, when after 3 steps he will tread on the booger that is us, and render us all extinct.

Well this story is as good or as bad as any other one proposed here. Much has been theorised of what was there before time and matter came into existance. Since we are very much part of space and time, we are trapped inside this reality and by definition cannot look beyond - if there IS a beyond. Apparently, us humans cannot fathom the concept of "Nothingness" and must extrapolate our limited beliefs and concepts beyond our defined boundaries.

I won't close without throwing you some morsels to think further: One thing that has not ever been explained by our laws of nature is our human spirit. You may argue with some philosophers that it is a mere illusion, created by our minds to make sense of our existance. But what if it isn't? Where does this spirit of us come from? (No I don't nudge you into the creationist corner)

Since we go beyond the reach of our physical experience with this topic, introducing a non-physical (spiritual) concept here is not so far off the mark.

Any thoughts?

sme

mu, its amazing how well zen fits in with astrophysics.
as i said previously, if the laws which govern our universe aren't or don't apply to the pre-singularity state there is an infinite amount of possibilities.

SonOfPerdition

pyxxel wrote:

I won't close without throwing you some morsels to think further: One thing that has not ever been explained by our laws of nature is our human spirit. You may argue with some philosophers that it is a mere illusion, created by our minds to make sense of our existance. But what if it isn't? Where does this spirit of us come from? (No I don't nudge you into the creationist corner)

Since we go beyond the reach of our physical experience with this topic, introducing a non-physical (spiritual) concept here is not so far off the mark.

Any thoughts?

my spirit comes out of a bottle from Puerto Rico.

SonOfPerdition

this may be of interest . . i find some of the idea's fascinating.