Apology over 1920 on the way?

ANXIOUS

sceptre wrote:

Yes I do. Re-read the opening line of my post, digest it, move on. You could also give the appearance that you've read the guidelines for posting by offering your own opinion as is required by the guidelines.

I have read the guidelines in fact i know them off by heart do you? Where does it say im required to give my own opinion?

guidelines wrote:

Topics should not be verbatim quotes from some article sans comment. Add a comment before or after the post, offering your opinion on the subject, or at the very least, your reason for adding the topic.

Have you read my original post i clearly state why i have posted here.
An apology for accusing/implying i didnt read the guidelines would be welcome, Thanks have a nice day

Zebra3

Judt wrote:

and the troubles have ended in the North (which the Brits apologized for, btw)

When did that happen?

Britain should not just be apologising for the murder of Irish civilians that day, but for all her immoral actions in Ireland and abroad carried out by the current state.

The British whine about Japan refusing to face up to her history of occupation and cruelty in WWII, while they gladly ignore their own and instead continue to put out propaganda like the outrageous claim that they were fighting for freedom in WWI and WWII while occupying and re-occupying a whole host of countries.

It is this sort of revionist hostory which continues to cause huge problems in Britain today as their young poeple are thought that their raping of the world was a good thing. This all leads to a continued master-race mentality which is jumped up on by the likes of the BNP and gives clowns like Blair a chance to act like in a way of the empire's self-righteous past by invading Iraq again.

In 1998 Germany apologised for her part in the horrific bombings of civilans in Guernica in the Spanish Civil War which was an important effort to reach out to the youth of Germany and say 'what we done was wrong and we admit it'. Spain and Italy still refuse to even acknowledge that this event took place.

With some posters hearing not wanting the past dragged up, I assume they are against the hunting down of Nazi war criminals then....

Zambia

Zebra3 wrote:

With some posters hearing not wanting the past dragged up, I assume they are against the hunting down of Nazi war criminals then....

The youngest would be 80 years old so at this piont yes..

LordSutch

I am not condoning what some stupid & murderous British Officer did in Croak Park circa 1920 ~ but ...............

As far as I can make out, "12 British (Irish) not English intelligence officers (Police men) were "murdered by Michael Collins' & associates" Dunno if this is true? but it would set the stage as to why some demented & crazed British Army personel went ballistic & burst into the where all the Republicans were gathered? on that sad & 'Bloody week'.

Please note the question marks before you attack me

stakey

I wouldn't argue that Britain (or for that matter any other imperialistic ambitious country) haven't done any wrong. But expecting an apology because a bunch of English players are going to be playing at Croke Park really is the crux of the stupidity that is nationalism. On a diplomatic level, yes there will always be a place to learn, apologise and foster better relations but to expect an apology for a rugby game is ludicrous at best. These men had/have nothing to do with the troubles in Ireland much like Irish men and women had nothing to do with the bombing of innocents in the cities of England. Should Ireland in years to come apologise for bombings in the docklands of London before a sporting even in London between the two teams?

Zambia

ArthurF wrote:

I am not condoning what some stupid & murderous British Officer did in Croak Park circa 1920 ~ but ...............

As far as I can make out, "12 British (Irish) not English intelligence officers (Police men) were "murdered by Michael Collins' & associates" Dunno if this is true? but it would set the stage as to why some demented & crazed British Army personel went ballistic & burst into the where all the Republicans were gathered? on that sad & 'Bloody week'.

Please note the question marks before you attack me

Hmm there is a lot of inconsistancys in this have a look at the wikipedia link I posted.

ANXIOUS

No, matter how long its been since an event has happened if someone is in the wrong they should be mature enough to hold there hands up and say sorry. Why would the irish goverment say sorry for the london bombings? Do you not know that the ira carried this out on behalf of themselves. There was no colusion with the irish goverment, (unlike the udf/britsh goverment :rolleyes: ). However the black and tans we're working under the direct command of the british goverment. That is why the british goverment should say sorry.

I would have had no problem if the britsh army had found he people who we're responsible for killing the 13soldiers and excuted them. However i have a problem with them randomly killing innocent people. That is what my problem is the fact that these we're innocent people, not soliders.

ANXIOUS

deconstruct wrote:

It truly is a pathetic sight that in 2007 we're once again expecting our big bad neighbour and those condescending subjects of the crown bend over backwards to appease our colonial mentality at a bloody game of rugby... come off of it...

just in response to thi, their is no evidence to suggest that the irish goverment asked for this, it seems britian has accepted what it did was wrong.

gandalf

ANXIOUS wrote:

I belive this post is in breach of the gudelines of this forum so have reported it.

Allegations of trollery will not be accepted in-thread - they will be viewed as simply another form of personal attack, and dealt with accordingly. If you believe someone is trolling, and object, then report them as per "Reporting & Moderating" above.

This stands for users of the forum.

A forum moderator can warn via pm or via the thread in question. In this case oscar choose to do it in the thread.

I really do not see what your problem is with this other than being a smart arse.

ANXIOUS

gandalf wrote:

This stands for users of the forum.

A forum moderator can warn via pm or via the thread in question. In this case oscar choose to do it in the thread.

I really do not see what your problem is with this other than being a smart arse.

Sorry didnt realize the moderator's didn't have to follow the guidelines. Won't happen again.

Zambia

ANXIOUS wrote:

No, matter how long its been since an event has happened if someone is in the wrong they should be mature enough to hold there hands up and say sorry.

I await my apology for you implying I avocated the murder of innocent civilians. But we have moved on from that have we.

There is a thread below discussing collusion with the British/UVF think its a little of topic here.

stakey

If Britain wants to this, that's fair enough as a sovereign state Britain can say whatever the hell she likes.

What I have an issue with us the colonial mentality shown on these pages, that Britain _owes_ us an apology for every action taken by there forces in Ireland nearly 100 years ago.

Most (sane) people acknowledges this stuff happened, i have no problem acknowledging that wrongs were done to people. But in 2007 one would hope that a game of Rugby wouldn't have to be made party to politics and politics and politics as fracked up as Irish/English politics.

In the end, it's only a game in a stadium for the entertainment of fans and glory for the teams. It has nothing to do with politics, NOTHING! Nor should it have anything to do with politics.

Unfortunately again, our colonial mentality means the armchair republicans in this country have found a reason to start demanding more apologies for 'their' painful pasts...

ANXIOUS

Zambia232 wrote:

I await my apology for you implying I avocated the murder of innocent civilians. But we have moved on from that have we.

There is a thread below discussing collusion with the British/UVF think its a little of topic here.

I would like to apoliogize too you for my mis-interpation of your statement on

f the british had acted like complete angels through the whole war. Ireland may never have come into being

.

Im happy to clear this up. Yes, i realize that. So thats why i wrapped it in brackets.

Fratton Fred

ANXIOUS wrote:

No, matter how long its been since an event has happened if someone is in the wrong they should be mature enough to hold there hands up and say sorry. Why would the irish goverment say sorry for the london bombings? Do you not know that the ira carried this out on behalf of themselves. There was no colusion with the irish goverment, (unlike the udf/britsh goverment :rolleyes: ). However the black and tans we're working under the direct command of the british goverment. That is why the british goverment should say sorry.

so we can expect the apology if Sinn Fein ever get in then:rolleyes:

ANXIOUS

deconstruct wrote:

Unfortunately again, our colonial mentality means the armchair republicans in this country have found a reason to start demanding more apologies for 'their' painful pasts...

Again we havent demanded anything it was offered

gandalf

ANXIOUS wrote:

Sorry didnt realize the moderator's didn't have to follow the guidelines. Won't happen again.

No it has happened again.

Let me make this clear for you. A Moderator of this forum can call you to account via PM or directly on the thread in question.

Oscar choose this route to ensure others saw that we do not tolerate comments like the one you posted.

If this causes you a problem then I suggest you stop posting in this forum.

ANXIOUS

gandalf wrote:

No it has happened again.

Let me make this clear for you. A Moderator of this forum can call you to account via PM or directly on the thread in question.

Oscar choose this route to ensure others saw that we do not tolerate comments like the one you posted.

If this causes you a problem then I suggest you stop posting in this forum.

No problem at all now, that i fully understand the rules.

philologos

I think its noble, yes an innocent player died due to British brutality. However I doubt the Irish government would apologise for the murders carried out by Michael Collins and co on British people in Ireland. Part of me thinks it would be correct to, but part of me doesn't think it would be correct to as the families of British soldiers also suffered. (I'm not a unionist or anything I just hold a neutral stance in relation to it all)

ANXIOUS

Fratton Fred wrote:

so we can expect the apology if Sinn Fein ever get in then:rolleyes:

Not wanting to go off topic, however i dont know if its ever been proved that Sein Feim approved the spate of bombings in england. I like to deal with fact and its fact that the black and tans we're sent to ireland on the order of the british goverment

ANXIOUS

Jakkass wrote:

I think its noble, yes an innocent player died due to British brutality. However I doubt the Irish government would apologise for the murders carried out by Michael Collins and co on British people in Ireland. Part of me thinks it would be correct to, but part of me doesn't think it would be correct to as the families of British soldiers also suffered. (I'm not a unionist or anything I just hold a neutral stance in relation to it all)

No of course no why would the irish goverment say sorry for a soldier killing a solider. As ive previously stated the only thing that bothers me is that the people killed we're civilians

Zambia

Accepted.

Still dont believe the sins of the fathers need to be apologised for by their sons if they want to well and good.

Personnally I welcome the Engilsh to such a stadium , it should be the job of every Irishman in there to sing and cheer their loudest so the roar can be heard in Wales.

But maybe just by accident we could shoot one of their players , Johnny Wilkinson preferably then call it quits...

philologos

ANXIOUS wrote:

No of course no why would the irish goverment say sorry for a soldier killing a solider. As ive previously stated the only thing that bothers me is that the people killed we're civilians

So the Irish resistance militia never killed any of their own civilians.... the Irish and British are equally responsible for the blood spilt over the many years. Apologising would mean that the British would be considered to have been more responsible for it. Thats partially the reason why I think it shouldn't go ahead.

Edit: if they are going to apologise for this, then we should apologise for the IRA bombings within British soil. Brighton in the mid 80's, Birmingham, and the Canary Wharf Bombings among others. They are our people, regardless if they are an army or not they were a militia that incited violence.

ANXIOUS

Jakkass wrote:

So the Irish resistance militia never killed any of their own civilians.... the Irish and British are equally responsible for the blood spilt over the many years. Apologising would mean that the British would be considered to have been more responsible for it. Thats partially the reason why I think it shouldn't go ahead.

Edit: if they are going to apologise for this, then we should apologise for the IRA bombings within British soil. Brighton in the mid 80's, Birmingham, and the Canary Wharf Bombings among others. They are our people, regardless if they are an army or not they were a militia that incited violence.

Have you read thr previous posts? Your exact arugement has already been used. And yes the are wholly responsible for what happened we didnt decide to try and colonise them.

Fratton Fred

ANXIOUS wrote:

Have you read thr previous posts? Your exact arugement has already been used. And yes the are wholly responsible for what happened we didnt decide to try and colonise them.

so who apologises for the 4 year old killed in Warrington? Was he a legitimate target because 800 years ago a Norman king decided to come to ireland? It was done in the name of a united Ireland FFS, those who did it, claimed to be doing it for you.

Who apologises for those killed in Guildford and Woolwich? The Irish were very quick to demand an apology for the poor souls wrongly convicted, but no one rushed forward with the names of the real murderers and there are people in this country who know who they are.

Who apologises for the innocent shopkeeper in Canary Wharf or the 28 people killed in Omagh?

All this "They were soldiers" or "They were acting in the name of the government" along with "But the bombings in Britain were not sanctioned by the Irish government" sorry, but it's all bollocks. Too many people have died on both sides of the Irish sea to continue this arguement. Every person killed is a tragedy to someone.

If there is to be any event to mark the England match, it should be that the two governments acknowledge what has happened in the past, respect those who have died and look forward to living together in 21st century harmony, just like the majority of people in both our countries.

Victor

r3nu4l wrote:

IT shouldn't be a stick to beat the English with but it should help them to understand that they did do great wrongs in Ireland

"They" didn't do it. Some English people of past centuries did it.

Zambia232 wrote:

America may beg to differ. But your piont is valid.

Only a little bit of America was British. And while good, is Canada really that good?

As far as I can make out, "12 British (Irish) not English intelligence officers (Police men) were "murdered by Michael Collins' & associates" Dunno if this is true?

Most were English, but yes, some were Irish.

However the black and tans we're working under the direct command of the british goverment. That is why the british goverment should say sorry.

The British goverment and even the king rejected what was the maverick actions of a few.

stovelid

This clearly belongs in another thread. Perhaps one called Extremely Tenuous Propositions.

Are you suggesting that an organization - in common with Loyalists - that have had no problem killing their own colleagues in internecine feuds would somehow allow operatives to carry out such toxic PR stunts as the Birmingham and Harrods bombings if it wasn't policy?

Maybe you mean that some IRA units may have carried out unsanctioned instances of approved Sinn Fein/IRA policy?

ANXIOUS wrote:

however i dont know if its ever been proved that Sein Feim approved the spate of bombings in englandt

Also, I made this point in AH but I'm amazed that the general British public are not more antipathetic towards the Irish, given that the current generation have actual memories of IRA atrocities against innocent people. Us (southern of course) Irish sometimes seem to harbor more of a grudge about historical events we have no direct experience of...

InFront

That's a really good point. Even British Muslims today recount what is by and large the very welcoming nature of British society despite atrocities like 7/7 and failed attacks since that.
It isn't completely universal I'm sure, but the failure of any potential anger towards Islam or Irishness to materialise there is a telling compliment to their society and shouldn't go unmentioned.

Zebra3

I think one point missing here is that even those who want an apology for the murders carried out by Crown Forces on Bloody Sunday 1920 (and the rest of Britain's evil occupation of Ireland) will agree that a rugby match is not the place for it to happen.

Maybe Britain could send over their monarch to give the apology on the much talked about visit, and then British officials can offer a fair amount in reparations for the stealing of land from the native Irish with generous interest included.

Then people can have their much sought after 'normalisation'.

Oh, and they can also change the way they teach their history and make sure their kids are taught that Churchill was a war criminal, not a war hero.

Fratton Fred

Zebra3 wrote:

Oh, and they can also change the way they teach their history and make sure their kids are taught that Churchill was a war criminal, not a war hero.

maybe you should get your anti English head out of your arse and back that one up

RedPlanet

You know sometimes when people apologise it's actually for their own benefit and not the ones they're apologising to. Like alleviating their own guilt.
I wonder if that's the case here.
Being the case that nobody in any official capacity has made any suggestion that HMG apologize.

If this situation panned out (and i for one do not believe this rumour), then what would we look like...
A bunch of spoilt children too immature to accept an apology?