How do you think FF are doing?

Milktrolley

Since 1997, what has Fianna Fáil done that you consider to be an achievement? And where have they failed dismally? In each area, the range covers the unpublicised events of note and the well-known obvious answers.

I ask because I aim to put together a short compilation of FF's efforts since they came into power. I was a few months short to be included on the Register, but with a curiosity in politics that doesn't span very long I'd be interested in forming an assessment of the party as it has been in recent times.

Your help would be appreciated.

ballooba

You'll be too young or you think you've missed deadline?

Villain

Well being from Carlow as well Milktrolley I'd start with M.J. Nolan, I know he wasn't there from 97 but he done sod all for our county in the last 4 years, his whole campaign was based on Carlow needing its own TD i.e. rather than another kilkenny TD. Carlow County Council have been granting planning permission left, right and center and people flooding down to buy houses from Dublin but instead of developing the IDA park and creating jobs for the town to save those new residents commuting back to Dublin, Carlow last year lost one of its main employer's in the Irish sugar plant.

On a more national basis FF have to be given credit for sustaining the growth in our economy, unemployment remains extremely low. They also have to be given credit for the way in which they dealth with the foot and mouth crisis.

However their list of failures imo is much longer, Crime and Health are the two main issues really, the government have failed to tackle the rising gang crime, they have failed to solve the A&E crisis and they failed to tackle MRSA.

I could go on but I've said it here all before have a read of old threads here and you will find loads of information.

Actually there is one more national/local issue, the new section of N7 being built which will bypass Carlow (on the Tullow road) is a fine example of poor planning, the government in its intelligence has spent millions buying land and building this new road but instead of making it a 6 lane motorway road i.e. M7 it will be a 4 lane N7, which will be fine for ten years but by that time I'm sure they will have to go and spend millions more buying more land to put in another 2 lanes, we should start planning for the next 50 years not 10 years.

Milktrolley

ballooba wrote:

You'll be too young or you think you've missed deadline?

I'll be too young I'm afraid.

Thanks for that irish1, I was wondering if the new M9 was going to be four or six lane. It's disappointing really, logic would tell you that it'd have to be six lane...

what_car

Milktrolley wrote:

Since 1997, what has Fianna Fáil done that you consider to be an achievement? And where have they failed dismally? In each area, the range covers the unpublicised events of note and the well-known obvious answers.

I ask because I aim to put together a short compilation of FF's efforts since they came into power. I was a few months short to be included on the Register, but with a curiosity in politics that doesn't span very long I'd be interested in forming an assessment of the party as it has been in recent times.

Your help would be appreciated.

LET ME SAY THIS... THEY HAVE DONE FECK ALL....... LOOK AT THE FISHERMEN, THEY ARE CLOSING THE SALMON FISHERIES... FAIR ENOUGH...
BUT THEY ARE NOT COMPENSATING PEOPLE PROPERLY AT ALL..........
THEY ARE TREATING THE FISHERMEN VERY BADLY......... REALLY POOR COMPENSATION......

AER LINGUS,,,,,,

SOLD THE STATE AIRLINE FOR A SONG.............. REALLY BAD MOVE.
NOW THEY HAVE SOME BIG PROBLEMS,


VOTING MACHINES
LOAD OF MONEY WASTED ON THESE, STORAGE, ETC ETC AND THEY ARE JUST A PILE OF OUTDATED JUNK AT THIS STAGE.....


P PARS..........

HEALTH SYSTEM IN TATTERS! NEED I SAY MORE.......


I COULD GO ON ALL DAY............................. THE LIST IS REALLY ENDLESS............

END OF RANT..........

CANT WAIT TO CAST MY VOTE!:D

TIME FOR A CHANGE........ VOTE FIANNA FAIL OUT AT THE NEXT ELECTION!

Capt'n Midnight

very very roughly speaking there are a million tax payers in the country, if you exclude public servants who are paid out of tax

so when the government spend over six hundred million on the M50 bridge that is 600 out of my pocket. then they go and spend another hundred million on a tolliing system so I've got to pay another 100. and the beauty about it is that not only have I still got to pay the toll on the bridge, I've got to pay it for many years after NTR would have stopped charging.

about a quarter of my income is going to cover the runaway increase in house prices because of poor regulation and planning, nearly half the price of a house is tax, when you add in the VAT , and PAYE and materials etc.

and despite all this tax, when I got a cut that probably needed stitches a while back it was go home and wash with hot soapy water, because I'd be suck in A&E for so long that they probably wouldn't stitch me anyway

and despite all this tax and ye olde VRT we have no decent public transport, for most of Dublin, the Luas has arrived in Tallaght, it's about the same as 3 QBC's but since most of the Bus lanes from there to Lucan have plastic bags covering the signs and DIY "bus lane not in use" notices I can see at least 3 QBC's not in use so....

It seems to be Status Quo when it comes to wealth distribution and services , the rising tide means that for a lot of people they have a larger mortgague and spend more hours commuting

brianthebard

Agree with you Irish1 on the foot and mouth issue, that was possibly the biggest potential crisis of the last ten years im(biased)o, it could've lead to the death of Irish farming. Apart from that I struggle to remember anything worthwhile. Failures for me are the Shannon fiasco and the lack of improvements in recycling and renewable energy sources. In fact the only bottle processing plant in the country closed under them afaik. (open to correction here)

meglome

I've been asking people for some time who they're going to vote for in the election and it's amazing how many are still going to vote for Fianna Fail. I'm not party political whatsoever and so I've taken a simple view on this election...The money to get things right in this country is there but things are far from right. Almost every major project this government has been involved in has been a f*ckup or at least way over budget. I'm not interested in having heads roll just for the sake of it but with some of the unbelievble f*uckups someone should have been fired and others should have been sued to get the money back. €600 million for a company that got the deal through Ray Burke and Redmond, I say let's take it to court. I actually had to turn the news off when I heard this. I got so angry that I was afraid that I might smash the tv, which is not like me at all. So as I say it's simple, the current government are pretty imcapable of getting things right. The worst part of it if the property prices slump which there is every chance of the sh*t is really gonna hit the fan. I'm not saying the government is useless but with no one having to be responsible for what they do things can only get worse.

K-9

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

so when the government spend over six hundred million on the M50 bridge that is 600 out of my pocket. then they go and spend another hundred million on a tolliing system so I've got to pay another 100. and the beauty about it is that not only have I still got to pay the toll on the bridge, I've got to pay it for many years after NTR would have stopped charging.

Can't argue on the other points but when the Toll Bridge was built NTR took a big risk financially. Joe Duffy was on the Gay Byrne on the day it opended laughing at the fact nobody was using. Nobody foresaw the increase in traffic. The contract awarded by P. Flynn sounds extremely generous now but very few wanted to operate the toll bridge then. Hindsight can be a wonderful thing!

Capital Gains Tax cut to 20% really drove the Celtic Tiger and the Housing Boom but also soaring house prices. It freed up landbanks to increase supply but the demand just soared.

The Smoking Ban - Smoke myself but definitely agree with it now.

National Roads - They have definitely improved though I take your point on Motorways. No Motorway planned to Donegal either and we seriously need one for development. Also most roads are now delivered ahead of time and budget.

Other than those hard to see any others. I think the major change in this country came from 1987 - 1992.

brianthebard

Plastic bag tax? Good Friday was under this government wasn't it? (not that I like them but I'm interested in forming an inventory now with this thread)

thebman

Selling the entire countries communications infastructure. Now we have a monopoly and a regulator that won't enforce regulations on the monopoly.

This will destroy any hope for a knowledge based economy (why the hell would you invest in a country where you can't get the results out of scientific test out of it in under a minute?). Why would anyone invest outside Dublin when they can't predict what broadband services will be available if any are! There are parts of Dublin that can't get broadband FFS!

There is no competition in the market and the regulator ruins any chance of it. Second highest priced line rental (controlled by the regulator) in the world is in Ireland and all that goes to eircom. Perlico etc.. have to pay eircom this money if you move to their service so all those companies get is the small amount for call costs and eircom can beat any of them on this if they get too strong as they will still make a profit from line rental. Also as they are the only ones that can provide a land line, they are in no rush to do it for rural areas with some people waiting 2 years to get a land line installed.

The inability to get broadband in rural areas (small towns even) is a disgrace. These are the areas that would benefit from broadband the most with the closing down of community shops/Post offices etc... You could order all your groceries online and get them delivered, pay car tax online etc.. but broadband is not available (some of these can be done on 56K but it is expensive and very slow and requires dialling up which is an added barrier to getting elderly people to learn how to use it, broadband is always on).

Every privitisation this government has been in charge of has been similarly disastrous (competition in energy market is a joke, Aer Lingus etc..).

All you have to do is look at the other areas to see similar results in many of them, the most obvious being the hospitals and public transport. Now they want to toll almost every road in the country when there are no alternatives for many people. Not to mention, most of the investment for these roads is from the tax payer already and everyone pays VRT who is using the roads!

Also just look at some of the dodgy zoning going on with no provisioning for services. Building 3,000 houses but having the logic to realise that maybe the school will need increased capacity to deal with all these new families moving into the area. The fact that housing standards were let lapse with regard to conserving energy and now their will be ratings put in place to ensure that people know the energy rating of a house before buying reducing the value of many homes when the standard should have been in place for years. There are plenty of other failures in the housing market.

Most of the other parties probably wouldn't be radically different but at this stage change is needed as they are arrogant and ignoring important issues that are effecting the economy, health service and infastructure of the country.

NewDubliner

Decentralisation?

'Nuff said.

Zebra3

My view of FF?

Corrupt and undemocratic.

They are there to serve a select few (and themselves) and their actions (like a lot of other parties) re the Nice Treaty was a disgrace.

They have allowed the rich to become rich beyond belief (no windfall tax on rezoned land) and they couldn't give a toss about the poor (no rent controls which the British were slated for when the island was completely occupied + the downturn after the 2002 GE saw the poor savaged, but no cuts in tax relief for the rich).

They have no standards-Bertie (and Cullen) should have been given the boot years ago.

FF are a poison on Irish society.

jank

lets put it this way.
If they are voted in next time they will be in government 15 years!!

That length of time can only be bad for a democratic country.
Im not a FG person at all but will probably be voting them just to get them out....

super_furry

Fianna Fail? Absolute ****ing clownshoes. Still they'll be voted back in, Irish politics is depressing.

Turned the economy around. Relegated the Northern conflict to history.

Bad points? There was that evoting thingy, and a leak in a Dublin tunnel I believe, though I'm one of the millions who don't give a hoot about traffic in Dublin. And they haven't ironed out the crises in health.

oscarBravo

Deleted User wrote:

Bad points? There was that evoting thingy, and a leak in a Dublin tunnel I believe, though I'm one of the millions who don't give a hoot about traffic in Dublin.

That's as good an introduction as any to why I'm probably going to vote against FF in the election: not because I perceive the potential opposition as being any better, but because of the sheer level of arrogance that has become the hallmark of the present government.

This arrogance is characterised by a complete and utter failure to listen to any point of view that's not perfectly compatible with whatever the government line happens to be. Take electronic voting: they're still talking about using the damn things in a future election. There's no good reason to record votes electronically, but a FF government decided that they're going to be introduced so, by God, they'll be introduced for better or worse.

Similarly, the Port Tunnel. It was designed not to allow trucks that can carry (if memory serves) 40% more payload than the standard sized trucks. Surely carrying more freight on one truck is of benefit to the environment? But no, rather than admit that they got the design wrong, they're talking about banning a Europe-wide standard size from our roads.

Decentralisation is another example, and there are many more. Pet projects are embarked upon, and persisted with long after it's been clearly demonstrated that they don't make any sense.

I'll accept that part of the problem is the oppositional nature of politics in this country, and the fact that it's political suicide to ever admit that you got anything wrong. That said, shouldn't that be an incentive to get things right in the first place, rather than persist with getting them wrong come hell or high water?

Capt'n Midnight

Seanies32 wrote:

Can't argue on the other points but when the Toll Bridge was built NTR took a big risk financially.

£30 million investment in a bridge might seem like a gamble, but there was an EU helped investment of £300million into the road either side. So spending £30 million to toll £330 million of infracture is a bargain in anyones books, especially when you get a 30 year monopoly.

Yes folks for an extra 10% up front there would have been no need for any toll. The PPP meant they could fund the first government jet.

johnnyskeleton

My two cents is that political parties tend to take credit for what happens while they are in power if it is good, but blame other factors when something that happens is bad.

For example, FF always point to the economy. But what exactly did they do for it? They inherited a boom and I can't think of any one specific example of how FF actually improved the economy (tax cuts and the ssias are not enough to account for our growth), and took it for their own. By not developing the economy with further infrastructure, public transport etc, the good times could end.

So anything that FF say they did should be scrutinised, and they must show cause and effect to have any realistic claim to their achievements.

IMO, their biggest failing is that they gave free regin to Minister McDowell and did not try to temper his more radical reforms.

spanner

there seems to be quite rightly a lot of comments on what the government is doing wrong, however my money is still on them getting in. From listening to people I know complain about the government, they say whats the point voting and the ones who do vote base there decisions on local issue for e.g. we need a T.D. for the town, he got us the house (when all he did was filled in the paperwork) and they seem like a nice person.

I know this is a general comment to make but voters dont seem to use national issues to base their vote on and the certainly dont used international events to base them on.

Jonny Arson

The only good/innovative things I can think off the top my head FF have done is the smoking ban and the plastic bag levy........ and lets be honest a two year old could come up and implement those ideas.

I could list a thesis of what and pretty much everything they are doing wrong but they manner in which they have disgracefully destroyed our health service (of course in conjunction with the PDs) and our non-existent mental health service would be damning enough to see them kicked out in any other country. That doesn't matter as this is Ireland where the people who matter in FF's eyes all have private health care and they those people will say ''sure our Economy is fantastic!'' when our economy is reliant on construction, manufacturing on its knees, young people can't afford houses, gap between rich and poor growing by the day... yada yada yada. Even on local issues in my constituency Fianna Fail have no presence and have done nothing... thats you get for living in a working class area!

Regarding them as individuals I don't like them, most of them are smug and arrogant especially Bertie, Cowen, Dermot Ahern, O'Dea in particular. Cullen, Martin, Dempsey all clueless morons. Hanafin is one of the few who I have respect for.

They have to go. End of.

SeanW

Like (among many of the things they've made a hames of) the driving test system. Most people who need to take a driving test must wait over 6 months for a road test, with some extreme cases of 59 weeks (guideline, it could be more) like in Navan.

Ten years they've had to develop a motorist testing system that actually functions, which doesn't seem to be a problem anywhere else in the developed world. Ten years they couldn't be arsed because noone in the Old Boys Club would benefit.

Then at the beginning of the year, Cullen announced he was going to spend €10M to clear out the "backlog" by outsourcing tests ... I wasn't reassured when he stated [paraphrase]We're going to spend loads of money sorting out our view of the problem in hopes it goes away for the election[/paraphrase] I wasn't convinced ... sure enough the driver testing unions barked up a storm because apparently the government gave them a monopoly on driver testing in the last partnership talks ...

Anyone who votes FF needs their head examined IMO.

Dr Galen

what we say doesn't seem to make a difference though guys, asaccording to any opinion polls i've been reading, they are gettin back in!

spanner

nurse_baz wrote:

what we say doesn't seem to make a difference though guys, asaccording to any opinion polls i've been reading, they are gettin back in!

I suppose you are right, as long as I dont have to listen to people complaining how usless the government is but not voting

road_high

irish1 wrote:

Well being from Carlow as well Milktrolley I'd start with M.J. Nolan, I know he wasn't there from 97 but he done sod all for our county in the last 4 years, his whole campaign was based on Carlow needing its own TD i.e. rather than another kilkenny TD. Carlow County Council have been granting planning permission left, right and center and people flooding down to buy houses from Dublin but instead of developing the IDA park and creating jobs for the town to save those new residents commuting back to Dublin, Carlow last year lost one of its main employer's in the Irish sugar plant.

On a more national basis FF have to be given credit for sustaining the growth in our economy, unemployment remains extremely low. They also have to be given credit for the way in which they dealth with the foot and mouth crisis.

However their list of failures imo is much longer, Crime and Health are the two main issues really, the government have failed to tackle the rising gang crime, they have failed to solve the A&E crisis and they failed to tackle MRSA.

I could go on but I've said it here all before have a read of old threads here and you will find loads of information.

Actually there is one more national/local issue, the new section of N7 being built which will bypass Carlow (on the Tullow road) is a fine example of poor planning, the government in its intelligence has spent millions buying land and building this new road but instead of making it a 6 lane motorway road i.e. M7 it will be a 4 lane N7, which will be fine for ten years but by that time I'm sure they will have to go and spend millions more buying more land to put in another 2 lanes, we should start planning for the next 50 years not 10 years.

This govt neglect of Carlow/KK has been shocking indeed. How come that IDA Park is empty while just 30 miles up the road in Citywest et al. companies are/have been springing up like mushrooms... They could easliy locate on that new IDA park instead.

That must be the N9 you refer to! Just be grateful it's being built at all. Remember how J Dardis (sth Kildare) and Harney tried to have it binned.

I'll be voting based on potential for Ministerial potential which obviously rules out any FF candidates. I suggest the people of CW do the same unless they want another 5 years of neglect and factory closures replaced by long commutes to Dublin..

miju

the government have done little or practically nothing of worth in my opinion and are incapable of making serious and difficult decisions

someone texted in to a radio show today to describe them as a sticky plaster government. thats the best description of them IMO , they are completely reactinoary and never see any issue coming and then just try and fix it with a "sticky plaster"

miju

miju wrote:

someone texted in to a radio show today to describe them as a sticky plaster government.

The analysis I have come to expect from texts to radio shows.

El Stuntman

miju wrote:

the government have done little or practically nothing of worth in my opinion and are incapable of making serious and difficult decisions

spot on Miju

to listen to our glorious Taoiseach wailing about the latest health crisis/crime spree/infrastructural disaster/whatever you're having yourself in the Dail, you'd never guess he was in a position to actually do something about it....

pathetic!

then again, we get the government we deserve. I think it's somewhat ironic that the only two ministers who have actively tried to promote change have been the two most demonised in the media

El Stuntman

El Stuntman wrote:

then again, we get the government we deserve.

I completely agree. After the last elected FG/Labour Government went in 1987, I said we deserved economic success and an end to the civil war in the North. Now, thanks mainly to people who hold posts in the current Government...

tbh

miju wrote:

the government have done little or practically nothing of worth in my opinion and are incapable of making serious and difficult decisions

someone texted in to a radio show today to describe them as a sticky plaster government. thats the best description of them IMO , they are completely reactinoary and never see any issue coming and then just try and fix it with a "sticky plaster"

excellent analogy, just what I was thinking. This is a reactive, not a pro-active government, they just wait till things get so bad they have to be fixed, and then they dither.

as an example, anyone who lives in Dublin knows how overcrowded the DARTS are at rush hour, but the government just ignore the problem. Hopefully it'll never happen, but if there is a serious accident, overcrowding will probably make it's impact worse, and then all of a sudden you'll see the government jumping up and down about it, just because they have to.

jjbrien

Deleted User wrote:

I completely agree. After the last elected FG/Labour Government went in 1987, I said we deserved economic success and an end to the civil war in the North. Now, thanks mainly to people who hold posts in the current Government...

Ok I am not party political myself but the last goverment that had FG and LAB in it was a sucess was in 1994-1997 this is when the celtic tiger was born. The current goverment in my opion has wasted this and has is now killing the tiger. Look at all the job losses. In my buliding they are letting go 100 people by summer Thankfully my job is safe for now. Alot of the good frieday agreement was done by Dick Spring and John Bruton. But people qulicy forget that.