How do you think FF are doing?

miju

indeed jjbrien Fianna Fail just fluked the "celtic tiger" in all honesty as they're handling / wanton wasting of it clearly shows they haven't a clue how to manage an economy let along stimulate the economy to take off in the first place

jjbrien

jjbrien wrote:

Ok I am not party political myself but the last goverment that had FG and LAB in it was a sucess was in 1994-1997 this is when the celtic tiger was born.

A roaring success. Was that the time when the IRA recommenced bombing London while the old age pensioners here got 2 and 6 pence extra to spend?

They weren't as bad as the last elected FG/Labour Government, for sure. And tbh I wouldn't knock them that much, though I remember people moaning about crime rates and Health and problems with the Lee Tunnel etc. etc. etc.

miju

miju wrote:

they haven't a clue how to manage an economy let along stimulate the economy to take off in the first place

Perhaps 'they' haven't. But one person did anyway. I just hope future generations will not look back on Charlie McCreeveys time as some forgotten golden period, like people in the 70s and 80s thinking about Lemass' success.

miju

indeed Charlie McCreevey was a GREAT minsiter for finance but alas he is off in Europe now. He and only he had the foresight to see what was happening and because the government cant control interest rates introduced the SSIA in order to try take some money out of the economy to cool things down.

unfortunatly it didnt work but its about the only good thing to come from fianna fail and it was mainly him driving it if im not mistaken

Time Magazine

miju wrote:

indeed Charlie McCreevey was a GREAT minsiter for finance but alas he is off in Europe now. He and only he had the foresight to see what was happening and because the government cant control interest rates introduced the SSIA in order to try take some money out of the economy to cool things down.

unfortunatly it didnt work but its about the only good thing to come from fianna fail and it was mainly him driving it if im not mistaken

I've yet to come up with a reasonable method of explaining how taking money out of the economy, multiplying it by 1.25 and putting it back in again is deflationary.

miju

as a temp measure Ibid thats all the SSIA really are

Time Magazine

Short-term solutions to long-term problems, yes I think that's what we signed up into the Growth and Stability Pact.

Oh no, wait, that's the opposite to what we agreed to do. How many of you have felt that inflation has stayed below its target of 2% during this government? As a student on a very modest income I certainly don't feel like it's that low. About 5.2%, two and a half times what it should be, sounds about right.

Yes, those SSIAs were a brilliant idea.

Miju, SSIAs are a net contributer to the economy. The current ECB interest rate is 3.75%. They move this by quarter of percents as the climate dictates. Charlie set an interest rate of 25%. The government is spending money on SSIAs. As it is suddenly spending more money and thus more money is in the economy, this is effectively a tax cut. A complicated tax cut, but the same effect to the economy nonetheless.

Tax cuts are not deflationary. They are inflationary. No wonder our inflation rate is 5%.

If Charlie wanted to pull the brakes he should have pulled the breaks and increased taxes, not offered a quasi-tax cut.

skearon

Off the top of my head:

FAMILIES:

FF have introduced more and better supports for families including:
• Major increases in Child Benefits.
• Early Child Care Support Supplement, of €1,000 for every child under 6.
• Enhanced paid maternity leave for mothers is now 26 weeks from March 2007.
• €790m for improved Child Care Facilities.
• 50,000 child care places nationally.
• 17,000 additional Child care workers.
• Tax breaks for Childminders.
• Major improvements in the Back to School Clothing & Footwear Allowance.
• Family Income Supplement improved.

Under the changes introduced in the lifetime of the FF Government:
A family of 2 children under 6 will receive €5,840 per year
A family of 4 children with 3 under 6 will receive €11,500 per year.
THESE PAYMENTS ARE TAX - FREE.


FINANCE:

Strong economic performance and good Government management mean that Ireland's State finances are healthier than ever. This allows the FF Govt to cut the Country's National Debt and to cut your taxes. As a result: -
• Personal Taxes are down.
• Standard rate of income tax cut from 27% to 20%
• Top rate cut from 48% to 41%.
• Income tax bands widened.
• Value of personal tax credits increased.
• Workers on the minimum wage exempt from tax.
• Business taxes have been cut to promote jobs, enterprise and investment

When Fine Gael/Labour Government last ran a full term in Government: -
• Ireland's debt per head was higher than Ethiopia or Sudan.
• National Debt increased by the equivalent of €75 billion in today's money.
• Every penny taken in income tax was spent servicing the national debt.
• Inflation was at 21%.
• Interest rates went so high that people were loosing their homes.
• Personal taxes were 40% standard and 65% at the higher rate.
• FG & Labour imposed Residential & Wealth Tax.
• The Financial Times wrote that international moneylenders were going to Pull Down the Shutters on Ireland.


EDUCATION:

Fianna Fail has always paid special attention to education. They see education as central to allowing every child to reach his / her potential. They believe that education is vital to the nation's development. Since 1997 they have:
• Increased funding for education almost three times.
• Employed 7000 more teachers in the system.
• Reduced class sizes & pupil teacher ratio.
• Started a transformation of the learning environment for children with special needs.
• Provided for a major increase in funds for school building.
• Provided 45,000 extra third level places since 1997. As a result of which, Over 55% of 17-19 year olds now enter higher education. Under Fine Gael & Labour the figure was 44%.


PENSIONERS:

Fianna Fail looks after our pensioners. In the lifetime of this Government:
• Pensions increases significantly ahead of inflation
• Basic social welfare pension over €200 per week.
• Contributory pensions of over €209per week.
• Carers' benefit increased to €200 per week
• Major improvements in Respite Care Grant,
• Free fuel allowances, free travel and other benefits all improved dramatically.
• A new deal for Carers on Social Welfare payments
• Increased Tax Exemptions for Pensioners.
All payment increases are made earlier in the year. Changes made in Budget 2007 will mean that a spouse working in the home, currently classified as 'qualified adult dependents' will become eligible for a full pension in her/his own right.

Compare The Record:-
• Under Fine Gael and Labour the Contributory Pension was €67.50 today its €209.
• Non-contributory pensions have doubled under Fianna Fail.
• When FG & Labour Party was last in power, pensioners got a pennypinching increase of just over €2.00 per week. This year's lowest increase was €18.00.


ECONOMY:

Ireland has the best performing economy in Europe. We have the lowest level of unemployment in the European Union. Sound Government economic policies and the social partnership have paid dividends. The results:
• 2 million people in work. 700,00 more than in 1997, when Fine Gael & Labour were last in Government.
• More than one in four of all jobs have been created since 1997.
• Unemployment has more than halved since 1997 Ireland has the lowest unemployment rate in the EU.
• We enjoy the fastest growing economy in the top 15 EU countries.
• Irish economic growth averaged 7 % per annum since 1997, compared to just over 2 % in the EU 15.

Under the Fine Gael/Labour Government (1987):
• Over 250,000 people were unemployed.
• 16% of adults were without work.
• Employment in the building industry fell to 71,000.


ENVIRONMENT:

While other political parties preach about the environment, the FF Government has introduced practical environmental policies that work. The Environmental Performance Index presented to the 2006 Davos World Economic Forum placed Ireland 10th out of 133 countries for environmental policies and 7th in the EU. As a result of this Government's policies we have:
• Air and drinking water standards that rank with the best in the world.
• Massively improved Wastewater treatment capacity, as a result of which we have more blue flags than ever before.
• Dramatically improved our recycling rates well ahead of EU targets.
• 35% of Municipal waste was recycled in 2005 four times the rate in
1997.
• 85% of construction & demolition waste is now recycled.
• Over 50% of packaging material is recycled.
• Diverted massive tonnage of household waste away from landfill & cut the number of landfill dumps.
• Successfully implement the EU Waste Electrical (WEEE) Directive diverting over 2.3 million items of electrical waste away from landfill.
• Doubled the number of bring banks and almost trebled the number of recycling centres.
• Clamped down on large scale illegal dumping.
• Brought in some of the world's strongest anti dumping laws and established the Office of Environmental Enforcement.
• Put Ireland well on target to meet her international responsibilities for cutting greenhouse gas emissions as established by the Kyoto Treaty.

When Fine Gael/Labour were in Government in 1997, recycling was under 9% now it is over 35%. Less than 37,000 tonnes of household waste were diverted from landfill. In 2005 the figure was 350,000 tonnes. Under Fine Gael and Labour segregated waste collection was available to only 70,000 households, it is now available to 600,000 households. When Fine Gael and Labour left office in 1997,we were only 20% in compliance with the EU Directive on water quality. This figure has risen to 90% in 2005.


So we hand over the running of the country to a someone like Enda Kenny, a nice chap, but with no experience, no capability and no achievements? No thanks!

Time Magazine

Can you answer me a few questions, skearon?

Did you write all that yourself?

skearon wrote:

FAMILIES

What does the Combat Poverty Agency think our poverty rate for children is?

FINANCE

Do you really think the feeling on the street is that our economy is strong?

When Fine Gael/Labour Government last ran a full term in Government:

Why do you need the full term clause there? Why not just the last FG/Lab government for a more recent analysis?

• Ireland's debt per head was higher than Ethiopia or Sudan.

Ireland as in the State. How's our personal debt doing?

• National Debt increased by the equivalent of €75 billion in today's money.

Who was the first government to put the State's coffers into the black?

• Every penny taken in income tax was spent servicing the national debt.

How much were Charles Haughey's governments adding to the national debt while he buying his shirts?

• Inflation was at 21%.

What's the average inflation rate of this government? What's the current inflation rate? How does this compare to what we signed up to in the Growth and Stability Pact?

• Interest rates went so high that people were loosing their homes.

Where is our interest rate set?

• Personal taxes were 40% standard and 65% at the higher rate.

Under which government did business first pay 12.5% corporation tax rate?

• FG & Labour imposed Residential & Wealth Tax.

So you're against taxes. You'd support Labour's call for lower income taxes, then?

• The Financial Times wrote that international moneylenders were going to Pull Down the Shutters on Ireland.

Who built Knock Airport?

Fianna Fail has always paid special attention to education. They see education as central to allowing every child to reach his / her potential. They believe that education is vital to the nation's development.

Do you think universities receive enough funding?

• Increased funding for education almost three times.

Do you think our universities receive enough funding?

• Employed 7000 more teachers in the system.
• Reduced class sizes & pupil teacher ratio.

The FF manifesto promised 20:1 ratios. It's now at 24:1. Why?

• Started a transformation of the learning environment for children with special needs.

And went all the way to the Supreme Court re: the Synnott case.

• Provided for a major increase in funds for school building.

How's the maintenance of national schools going?

• Provided 45,000 extra third level places since 1997. As a result of which, Over 55% of 17-19 year olds now enter higher education. Under Fine Gael & Labour the figure was 44%.

Who brought in free third-level education?

PENSIONS

What's the threat of poverty rate for over 65s?

Compare The Record:-
• Under Fine Gael and Labour the Contributory Pension was €67.50 today its €209.
• Non-contributory pensions have doubled under Fianna Fail.
• When FG & Labour Party was last in power, pensioners got a pennypinching increase of just over €2.00 per week. This year's lowest increase was €18.00.

What's the poverty rate for over 65s?

Ireland has the best performing economy in Europe. We have the lowest level of unemployment in the European Union. Sound Government economic policies and the social partnership have paid dividends.

How's our personal debt? What were the interest rates when our growth peaked? What do economists consider to be the structural average interest rate? What's our inflation rate? How many times higher is this to the level the ECB think is vital for equitable growth?

• 2 million people in work. 700,00 more than in 1997, when Fine Gael & Labour were last in Government.
• More than one in four of all jobs have been created since 1997.

How many more are of working age?

• Unemployment has more than halved since 1997 Ireland has the lowest unemployment rate in the EU.
• We enjoy the fastest growing economy in the top 15 EU countries.
• Irish economic growth averaged 7 % per annum since 1997, compared to just over 2 % in the EU 15.

How many more people of working age have we? What has happened to our personal debt?

Under the Fine Gael/Labour Government (1987):
• Over 250,000 people were unemployed.
• 16% of adults were without work.
• Employment in the building industry fell to 71,000.

Do we really want to quote figures that are twenty years old? Why not quote the growth and inflation rate in 1997, when FG/Lab last left government?

ENVIRONMENT

How are we doing with regards to the Kyoto Protocol, that we signed up to?

• 35% of Municipal waste was recycled in 2005 four times the rate in
1997.

What's the European average?

• Put Ireland well on target to meet her international responsibilities for cutting greenhouse gas emissions as established by the Kyoto Treaty.

I'm sorry, please extrapolate with figures.

So we hand over the running of the country to a someone like Enda Kenny, a nice chap, but with no experience, no capability and no achievements? No thanks!

Enda Kenny, assuming he is returned, will become Father of the Daíl. He has also served in ministerial office. He has been a minister in an Irish government, is that not experience? You state he has no capability. He took over Fine Gael in 2002 after their worst election result ever. Two years later he led to them to best election result ever, beating FF for the first time. It seems the ballots do no agree with your assertion that he has no capabilities. No achievements? He hasn't been Taoiseach yet .

thebman

skearon wrote:

Off the top of my head:

FINANCE:
lack of reform of VRT and Car tax this year. I agree with Brian Cowen on Stamp Duty though because the money will just go to developers if they reduce stamp duty as price houses will most likely remain the same. However not enough is being put into developing the countries infrastructure in the NDP in a number of areas.

EDUCATION:
Class sizes too high. If they are spending so much money, why are class sizes too high. The answer is lack of planning. My example being my sister who bought a house in Lusk when huge housing estates were built but no provisioning for a new school or expansion to existing schools for this increase in population. LACK OF PLANNING

ECONOMY:
About to go down the toilet in the next few years because of a lack of planning IMO. Lack of investment in communication infrastructure while attempting to attract research jobs is stupid. How would these companies get the results of tests out of the country? Wait 4 hours for them to be sent on dial up?

ENVIRONMENT:

The only reasonable point IMO is the environment but the only reason FF are doing a little on that is because they signed up to Kyoto and we end up buying tax credits. How about all the sub standard housing that has been built to due to lack of reform of regulations leading to higher spending on fuel for heating homes because they don't store heat properly? I drive by a dump in Athlone every now and again and it stinks and can be smelled from the main road. It is sickening and nothing has been done about that.


Basically what your saying is once the economy took off, FF spent money and when the previous government was in, they didn't because there was none to spend. You can't fairly compare two governments in completely different era's because there were completely different circumstances in the country.

So we hand over the running of the country to a someone like Enda Kenny, a nice chap, but with no experience, no capability and no achievements? No thanks!

He might invest in public transport or communications or reform health care or get class sizes down or you know, useful stuff like that. Anyway I'm not saying elect Enda Kenny, just someone else who might actually be capable of developing a plan for the country. ATM, I don't see any Irish political party that is capable of doing that as they all go down the pathetic road of trying to buy the election with unneeded tax cuts when we should be using the money to fix the crappy infrastructure in the country.

Why should any company invest in Ireland when our own government won't invest properly in it? I mean seriously, outside of the main cities there is bad roads and 56K dialup. There is no way to get anything, anywhere outside of the main cities in this country.

Jonny Arson

skearon, is there any chance you have some more statistics on Fianna Fail's performance over the past 10 years particularly with regards to Healthcare, Crime and Infrastructure? Thanks

SeanW

FF haven't fubbed up everything, health is ok (I have some recent 2nd hand experience of this), improving, broadband, we're still way behind the UK and mainland Europe but I have BB and I'm in the middle of nowhere. The bag tax, the smoking ban, and the Republic's role in the Northern peace process have all been to FF/PDs credit. They've also maintained and improved slightly things for 3rd level students.

But they've messed up a lot more. The jobs are flying out the window because Ireland is something like the 2nd most expensive place in the world to live or do business now, (all propped up by runaway inflation, and a property sector bubble) in fact Michael McDowells brother Moore (a Fine Gael supporter) advised his brother that this is "the election to lose" because the economy may be about to go into the toilet.
But there's going to be a huge national party when the bulk of the SSIAs mature, which will be right before the election ...
PPARS, E-Voting, the continuing transport meltdown and the number of basic services that are essentially non-functional, like the driver testing service that has people waiting up to a year and a half for a road test, shows just how much they haven't done and couldn't care less about.

Which is why my votes will be going to the opposition.

Firstly to Fine Gael
Secondly to Labour
Thridly and subsequently to any other opposition
Finally (4th prefs or lower) to Sinn Fein, who in my view now meet the criteria for democratic opposition.

As another poster said regardless of their achievments I think a change of government would be good for the country.
I'm also sick of Bertie babbling like a scolded child everytime he gets called out on failings and seemingly getting away with it.
Inflation is a major issue and is really hurting Irelands competitivness.

ballooba

skearon wrote:

So we hand over the running of the country to a someone like Enda Kenny, a nice chap, but with no experience, no capability and no achievements? No thanks!

Is that the best you can do?

Enda Kenny has achieved a lot more than Bertie could ever imagine. Bertie might have the nice used car salesman personable image but Enda is worth ten of him.

As Ibid said, Enda has completely revitalised the Fine Gael party in the last five years. He has inspired both a new generation of Fine Gaelers (of which I count myself) and the old school party members to believe in a victory in 2007.

If that doesn't count as an achievement and a demonstration of his capabilities then I don't know what would. He may not be able to walk on water, he may not be able to turn water into wine, but I remember the 2002 election result.

MontgomeryClift

All this talk of inflation and competitiveness is a bit parrot-ish now, when you consider that it's been a problem since 1999 when inflation quadroupled to 6%. Most are only paying attention to it now that it's causing the economic headaches some have been predicting all this time.

Yet back then everybody was happily repeating the Progressive Fáil suggestion that the economy was 'good.' The PF government has been delivering inflationary budgets since it entered office, and it's been doing harm since then.

Business groups advised Brian Cowen to deliver an anti-inflationary budget last December. He didn't.

Time Magazine

MontgomeryClift wrote:

Progressive Fáil

I am going to bastardise this word and refer to this government as the Progressive Fail government from now on. Thank you.

MontgomeryClift

MontgomeryClift wrote:

All this talk of inflation and competitiveness is a bit parrot-ish now, when you consider that it's been a problem since 1999 when inflation quadroupled to 6%. Most are only paying attention to it now that it's causing the economic headaches some have been predicting all this time.

England are worried that their inflation might hit 3%. Ours is currently running close to 5% and could easily be closer to 6% when fuel and intrest rates increase again.
We don't have the luxury of tinkering with our interest rates to combat it.

what_car

skearon wrote:

Off the top of my head:

FAMILIES:

FF have introduced more and better supports for families including:
• Major increases in Child Benefits.
• Early Child Care Support Supplement, of €1,000 for every child under 6.
• Enhanced paid maternity leave for mothers is now 26 weeks from March 2007.
• €790m for improved Child Care Facilities.
• 50,000 child care places nationally.
• 17,000 additional Child care workers.
• Tax breaks for Childminders.
• Major improvements in the Back to School Clothing & Footwear Allowance.
• Family Income Supplement improved.

Under the changes introduced in the lifetime of the FF Government:
A family of 2 children under 6 will receive €5,840 per year
A family of 4 children with 3 under 6 will receive €11,500 per year.
THESE PAYMENTS ARE TAX - FREE.


FINANCE:

Strong economic performance and good Government management mean that Ireland's State finances are healthier than ever. This allows the FF Govt to cut the Country's National Debt and to cut your taxes. As a result: -
• Personal Taxes are down.
• Standard rate of income tax cut from 27% to 20%
• Top rate cut from 48% to 41%.
• Income tax bands widened.
• Value of personal tax credits increased.
• Workers on the minimum wage exempt from tax.
• Business taxes have been cut to promote jobs, enterprise and investment

When Fine Gael/Labour Government last ran a full term in Government: -
• Ireland's debt per head was higher than Ethiopia or Sudan.
• National Debt increased by the equivalent of €75 billion in today's money.
• Every penny taken in income tax was spent servicing the national debt.
• Inflation was at 21%.
• Interest rates went so high that people were loosing their homes.
• Personal taxes were 40% standard and 65% at the higher rate.
• FG & Labour imposed Residential & Wealth Tax.
• The Financial Times wrote that international moneylenders were going to Pull Down the Shutters on Ireland.


EDUCATION:

Fianna Fail has always paid special attention to education. They see education as central to allowing every child to reach his / her potential. They believe that education is vital to the nation's development. Since 1997 they have:
• Increased funding for education almost three times.
• Employed 7000 more teachers in the system.
• Reduced class sizes & pupil teacher ratio.
• Started a transformation of the learning environment for children with special needs.
• Provided for a major increase in funds for school building.
• Provided 45,000 extra third level places since 1997. As a result of which, Over 55% of 17-19 year olds now enter higher education. Under Fine Gael & Labour the figure was 44%.


PENSIONERS:

Fianna Fail looks after our pensioners. In the lifetime of this Government:
• Pensions increases significantly ahead of inflation
• Basic social welfare pension over €200 per week.
• Contributory pensions of over €209per week.
• Carers' benefit increased to €200 per week
• Major improvements in Respite Care Grant,
• Free fuel allowances, free travel and other benefits all improved dramatically.
• A new deal for Carers on Social Welfare payments
• Increased Tax Exemptions for Pensioners.
All payment increases are made earlier in the year. Changes made in Budget 2007 will mean that a spouse working in the home, currently classified as 'qualified adult dependents' will become eligible for a full pension in her/his own right.

Compare The Record:-
• Under Fine Gael and Labour the Contributory Pension was €67.50 today its €209.
• Non-contributory pensions have doubled under Fianna Fail.
• When FG & Labour Party was last in power, pensioners got a pennypinching increase of just over €2.00 per week. This year's lowest increase was €18.00.


ECONOMY:

Ireland has the best performing economy in Europe. We have the lowest level of unemployment in the European Union. Sound Government economic policies and the social partnership have paid dividends. The results:
• 2 million people in work. 700,00 more than in 1997, when Fine Gael & Labour were last in Government.
• More than one in four of all jobs have been created since 1997.
• Unemployment has more than halved since 1997 Ireland has the lowest unemployment rate in the EU.
• We enjoy the fastest growing economy in the top 15 EU countries.
• Irish economic growth averaged 7 % per annum since 1997, compared to just over 2 % in the EU 15.

Under the Fine Gael/Labour Government (1987):
• Over 250,000 people were unemployed.
• 16% of adults were without work.
• Employment in the building industry fell to 71,000.


ENVIRONMENT:

While other political parties preach about the environment, the FF Government has introduced practical environmental policies that work. The Environmental Performance Index presented to the 2006 Davos World Economic Forum placed Ireland 10th out of 133 countries for environmental policies and 7th in the EU. As a result of this Government's policies we have:
• Air and drinking water standards that rank with the best in the world.
• Massively improved Wastewater treatment capacity, as a result of which we have more blue flags than ever before.
• Dramatically improved our recycling rates well ahead of EU targets.
• 35% of Municipal waste was recycled in 2005 four times the rate in
1997.
• 85% of construction & demolition waste is now recycled.
• Over 50% of packaging material is recycled.
• Diverted massive tonnage of household waste away from landfill & cut the number of landfill dumps.
• Successfully implement the EU Waste Electrical (WEEE) Directive diverting over 2.3 million items of electrical waste away from landfill.
• Doubled the number of bring banks and almost trebled the number of recycling centres.
• Clamped down on large scale illegal dumping.
• Brought in some of the world's strongest anti dumping laws and established the Office of Environmental Enforcement.
• Put Ireland well on target to meet her international responsibilities for cutting greenhouse gas emissions as established by the Kyoto Treaty.

When Fine Gael/Labour were in Government in 1997, recycling was under 9% now it is over 35%. Less than 37,000 tonnes of household waste were diverted from landfill. In 2005 the figure was 350,000 tonnes. Under Fine Gael and Labour segregated waste collection was available to only 70,000 households, it is now available to 600,000 households. When Fine Gael and Labour left office in 1997,we were only 20% in compliance with the EU Directive on water quality. This figure has risen to 90% in 2005.


So we hand over the running of the country to a someone like Enda Kenny, a nice chap, but with no experience, no capability and no achievements? No thanks!

you forgot to mention all the waste of tax payers money by FF, also berties little loan! haha...... the housing market is on the down slide, job losses are a daily occurence now, FF and little hitler are making a right mess of things.
oh yea and the sale of aer lingus at a bargain basement price , and the buying back of the toll on m50.... after they gave it away in the first place,.
the cost of living in ireland is skyrocketing, FF and their cronies make me sick!

people dont waste your vote on FF or the PD's at the next election!
:mad: :mad:

what_car

Jonny Arson wrote:

skearon, is there any chance you have some more statistics on Fianna Fail's performance over the past 10 years particularly with regards to Healthcare, Crime and Infrastructure? Thanks

yeah well said, also what about the Salmon industry, goverment came out with a really bad compensation package, for the fishermen, and no incentive what so ever to encourage them to take up other marine related activity.

health care is a joke, FF and the PD's have been there for a number of years and its still in tatters.......its a disgrace,,

THE WINDS OF CHANGE ARE BLOWING , FF OUT!!

Jonny Arson

SeanW wrote:

health is ok (I have some recent 2nd hand experience of this),

I too have second hand experience on the health service and from my perspective it is continuingly getting worse and I know patients, doctors and nurses who say the exact same thing as me and I believe the vast majority of public health patients and staff will not be conned by the recent FF/PD propaganda on this issue. I trust the people far more than politicians.

ISAW

what_car wrote:

you forgot to mention all the waste of tax payers money by FF,

ALL government do that! By "government" I mean civil and public servants . You know! the bunch that control 95 per cent plus of the finances while the politicians get less than five per cent (probably abou t three)?

You jknow the types policy advisors senior civil servants university heads (yes the ones who want 350,000 a year when some have houses (for FREE) worth 35000 a month rent and free meals etc.

In fact Labour are the type who want to increase the amount of waste on these type of people. The ones who earn as much as ministers but outnumber ministers by at least three to one and who are there for life and not elected! you can throw in Union leaders into that pot too.


So dont think "the minister" is all powerful and makes all the financial decisions. the book of estimates far overwhelms the budget!

also berties little loan! haha......

ho ho ho! emphasis on the LITTLE and SINGULAR aspect please? you are aware Garret Fitzgerald had a "loan" of maybe ten times that written off by the bank? And i dont begrudge him.

the housing market is on the down slide,

Actually it isnt!

job losses are a daily occurence now, FF and little hitler are making a right mess of things.

Jobs are also being created. Hopefully not in the finance sapping civil service.

oh yea and the sale of aer lingus at a bargain basement price ,

cant win can they. When it was telecom it was sold for "too much!"

then when they drop a price it is "bargain basement!"

and the buying back of the toll on m50.... after they gave it away in the first place,.

Rented it with the actual ability to buy it back!

the cost of living in ireland is skyrocketing, FF and their cronies make me sick!

please look up some stats. six percent inflation (while not good) is not SKYROCKETING. Hyper inflation is the sort of thing that existed under FG in the eighties! Mortgage interests at 15 percent and up to 21 aqt times. Go and look up the stats and post the4m here if you think i am wrong.

miju

ISAW wrote:

Actually it isnt!

in relation to property it actually is tanking http://daftwatch.atspace.com/ + http://irishpropertywatch.5gbfree.com/report_myhome_2_110307.html = BIG PROBLEM

ISAW wrote:

Jobs are also being created. Hopefully not in the finance sapping civil service.

indeed they are however , the jobs being created are low value services jobs which cannot be compared to high value research jobs. ireland is moving down the skills / economy chain NOT up it as fianna failure like to freely state

thebman

SeanW wrote:

FF haven't fubbed up everything, health is ok (I have some recent 2nd hand experience of this), improving, broadband, we're still way behind the UK and mainland Europe but I have BB and I'm in the middle of nowhere. The bag tax, the smoking ban, and the Republic's role in the Northern peace process have all been to FF/PDs credit. They've also maintained and improved slightly things for 3rd level students.

With healthcare, why not just have one system that works instead of one that works and another that has waiting lists so long, you become terminally ill before you get treatment which has happened to people. The government seem to be pursuing the American healthcare model of if you don't have health insurance, you deserve to die if you get ill.

Broadband isn't improving!!!!! There is no competition to eircom in the landline market (reselling bitstream is not competition as eircom get the bulk of the money in line rental from that). most countries have broadband everywhere, we have some places. Our broadband is also extremely slow compared to other countries where you can get it. We are getting slightly better and everyone else is steam rolling head so we are falling futher behind while paying the second highest line rental in the world to eircom!

MontgomeryClift

ISAW wrote:

Jobs are also being created. Hopefully not in the finance sapping civil service.

40% of new jobs are in the private sector. Apart from that and construction, no other industry is really growing.

ISAW wrote:

please look up some stats. six percent inflation (while not good) is not SKYROCKETING. Hyper inflation is the sort of thing that existed under FG in the eighties!

The Fine Gael government was the one that reduced inflation from about 10% to under 4% in the eighties. Fianna Fáil opposed this at the time.

SeanW

brim4brim I didn't say either broadband or healthcare were good, just could be worse, and are only good by Fianna Fail standards, which applies to everything else, a.k.a. totally messed up.

Inflationary budgets, 60 week waiting lists for a driving test, massive bungling of all major projects and astronomical waste is what I consider to be Fianna Fail's usual standard. i.e. screwing up everything in sight. That for example I can get a functional broadband service in the middle of nowhere is something I consider to be above the usual standard. Also my second hand experience of the health system, a relative (public patient) had to go to hospital recently, got a bed with little difficulty and good treatment quickly, shows to me that the public health system, while it may be bogged down in problems, isn't a complete disaster across the board. Again, this is out of character for things in this country under FF.

It's a sad day when the only positive thing you can say about your government is that "they haven't screwed up everything totally beyond repair"

that's why I'll be voting for the opposition.

Ardent

SeanW wrote:

FF haven't fubbed up everything, health is ok (I have some recent 2nd hand experience of this), improving, broadband, we're still way behind the UK and mainland Europe but I have BB and I'm in the middle of nowhere. The bag tax, the smoking ban, and the Republic's role in the Northern peace process have all been to FF/PDs credit. They've also maintained and improved slightly things for 3rd level students.

But they've messed up a lot more. The jobs are flying out the window because Ireland is something like the 2nd most expensive place in the world to live or do business now, (all propped up by runaway inflation, and a property sector bubble) in fact Michael McDowells brother Moore (a Fine Gael supporter) advised his brother that this is "the election to lose" because the economy may be about to go into the toilet.
But there's going to be a huge national party when the bulk of the SSIAs mature, which will be right before the election ...
PPARS, E-Voting, the continuing transport meltdown and the number of basic services that are essentially non-functional, like the driver testing service that has people waiting up to a year and a half for a road test, shows just how much they haven't done and couldn't care less about.

Which is why my votes will be going to the opposition.

Firstly to Fine Gael
Secondly to Labour
Thridly and subsequently to any other opposition
Finally (4th prefs or lower) to Sinn Fein, who in my view now meet the criteria for democratic opposition.

I agree with almost everything you say and will be voting almost indentically. But how can you say that the health system and broadband are plus points for FF? Both are unmitigated disasters!

Glenbhoy

skearon wrote:

Off the top of my head

In fairness I'm impressed with your grasp on the issues, i feel perhaps you should stand for election, I mean, a guy with your handle on things would be taoiseach in no time, at least you wouldn't have to bumble your way through answers to unplanned questions to which your advisors hadn't supplied you with a scripted answer to read (or alternatively, as we see too often nowadays, get angry when asked a diffcult question) like the present incumbent does!!

skearon wrote:

EDUCATION:

Fianna Fail has always paid special attention to education. They see education as central to allowing every child to reach his / her potential. They believe that education is vital to the nation's development. Since 1997 they have:
• Increased funding for education almost three times.
• Employed 7000 more teachers in the system.
• Reduced class sizes & pupil teacher ratio.
• Started a transformation of the learning environment for children with special needs.
• Provided for a major increase in funds for school building.
• Provided 45,000 extra third level places since 1997. As a result of which, Over 55% of 17-19 year olds now enter higher education. Under Fine Gael & Labour the figure was 44%.

!

This is the only area of your rather cunningly disguised statistics with which I will bother taking issue, facilites here are woefully inadequate, it's not enough to throw money at problems, the money should be targetted, I'm from NI originally and when I first heard that kids have to pay for copy books, pencils, arts and crafts, physical education, I laughed, well, I mean you would, sure who'd believe that nonsense?? Then there's the state of the majority of schools, their IT facilities (thank God for Tesco anyway), their playgrounds, their, ahem, gyms and halls......
Class sizes, yeah, the govt have done well, in 10yrs they've managed to reduce teacher/pupil ratio's by one, they made a promise last time to reduce this to 20.1 (now they tell us, that was merely a noble aspiration), however my wife teaches 34 children (with a classroom assistant for 30 mins per day), my mother also teaches, but in the north, where the school has a 19.1 ratio and full time class room assistants for every teacher. My mother frequently gives my wife teaching aids and books etc which her school would have been throwing out otherwise, my wife gladly accepts these. It's good that the old tradition of hand me downs hasn't been forgotten in this post celtic tiger era though.

Re the toll bridge, NTR contributed £8,000 to P Flynn in 1992, paid Liam Lawlor £74,000 for a consultancy report and paid George Redmond £10,000.
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=36&si=1127764&issue_id=10453
http://www.tcd.ie/Political_Science/courses/undergrad/BCPOL/thunderer/irish/irish_detail_85.html
Meanwhile in a unrelated point, man of the people and ever populist, Mr. Ahern is on the record as saying that proceeds of corruption are fair game for the CAB.
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=833487&issue_id=8087

Ardent

A couple of other points with regards to the miserable failings of this government that have angered me personally:

1) No regulation of managment companies. With the huge explosion of apartment complexes and housing estates as a result of the property explosion, management companies are the big new phenomenon. And there's a lot of cowboy outfits (many are merely an arm of the property developer in question) mercilessly fleecing home-owners with no fear of accountability. Fianna Fail has done nothing to protect home-owners from these leeches.

2) The DPP/Justice system. The outcomes of some cases over the last few years have been shocking to say the least and have shown that the justice system in this country is flawed. The DPP in particular have shown outright incompetency across a number of cases (not going to mention the particular cases here). A reform of the system - and of the people within it - has been badly needed for a long time.

SeanW

Ardent wrote:

I agree with almost everything you say and will be voting almost indentically. But how can you say that the health system and broadband are plus points for FF? Both are unmitigated disasters!

Very true, but from my experience, both are not on the usual FF scale (i.e. totally nonfunctional) unmitigated disasters.

It was kind of a backhanded compliment (they managed to having something that functions, albeit barely).

ISAW

miju wrote:

in relation to property it actually is tanking http://daftwatch.atspace.com/ + http://irishpropertywatch.5gbfree.com/report_myhome_2_110307.html = BIG PROBLEM

the first of these links daft shows a series of graphs which indicate a rise in the number of houses offered for sale.

this does not mean that property is tanking or in a crash!

It indicates more houses are being offered that is all.

Let us take the "big problem" you indicate and analyse it in relation to your daft graphs.
Yes it may indicate that the supply is increasing and demand falling and you conclude therefore that price is heading for a crash.

But

1. The Supply problem
the government has been trying to increase supply for the last tenm tyears. That is a good thing. But the global issue you raise here ignores the minutae on prioce such as WHERE the property is being built. supply probably wont meet demand for several years. and when it does that is GREAT since the people who want houses can get them. The point is really will the right type of housing be built in the right places e.g. does every family (excluding the unmoving non decentralisable single civil servants who dont already own property in Dublin) want an apartment in Dublin?

Which bring me neatly to

2. The Demand Problem

Years ago what they now call "investors" were called "speculators"
these were the type of people who attacked the Pound when we had the punt. they cares nothing about ireland only about their funds. you know the type? the pensions fund manager who says he is helping out all the poor pensioners from the "semi state job for life until pension" sector. He was buy ing punts and dumping them and Iish joe soap was paying 15 per cent on a mortgage because of it.

About six or seven years ago, his type bought a few (say five I know people with more) apartments for 80k a go (say 100k in Euro). Now each of them are worth 300k. His half million investment is now apparently 1.5 million. You want me to feel sorry if people only offer 500k for the five apartments? thats a drop in value of 66 per cent which is NOT going to happen but if it did you think I should be sorry for him when he got 30 years worth of rent for a single apartment over that time? I should feel sorry because some graph on you page shows rental properties decline by 20 per cent over the last six months when over christmas they fall by twice that for seasonal reasons?

your second site shows i guess a drop of a few per cent (not SIXTY) over the period for over 400 houses. These are the same people who listed underprice for years and made estimates a joke! Great! I love to see prices fall. My house has gone up by over a hundred percent in five years. Im not greedy. i just want to live somewhere. But I want other families to as well.


And the family who bught for 100k are still living in their apartment because they bought a "home" not an investment so they dont care about price!

indeed they are however , the jobs being created are low value services jobs which cannot be compared to high value research jobs. ireland is moving down the skills / economy chain NOT up it as fianna failure like to freely state

you are wrong about this! THe state has upped investment in research and higher education! Business isnt doing as much but is also increasing investment in it. Look it up GERD BERD and HERD they are called. You will get them from Forfas.

Look at patents registered, students, and at other indicators. It isnt state invested tax money created admin jobs for life we need. And someone does need to do the service jobs.