Homophobia in CTN

The_Minister

There was an article in the Observer, saying that CTN had to apologise after they accidentally made a homophobic remark. Does anyone know what they said?

EDIT: My the article said that it was included in the credits.

Sangre

They said you're gay.

The_Minister

Reported for Personal Abuse

J/K

Pantsless

Reported for being Gay

Dontico

real mature. :rolleyes:

i think it was some along the lines of @i'm not wearing that i'll look like a fag". which many people i've talked to dont think it was homophobic at all. the first people to react to it now agree that it wasnt.

funktastic

PC gone mad. It's a figure of speech. As in 'you look bad wearing that'. That's the way I would see it anyway. Do the same people go mad every time they watch an episode of South Park?

Pantsless

Dontico wrote:

real mature. :rolleyes:

i think it was some along the lines of @i'm not wearing that i'll look like a fag". which many people i've talked to dont think it was homophobic at all. the first people to react to it now agree that it wasnt.

Jesus Don . Obviously blinding by your love for CTN (and general spokesman for your station) you actually believe that says " im not wearing that i'll look like a fag" isnt homophobic? How about ...... let see.... for the sake of this example... "i cant wear that ill look like a black" . Same thing no?


At the end of the day it was used in a derogatary (sp?) term refering to the homosexual community. CTN really needs to cop the **** on

terry mac

Pantsless wrote:

Jesus Don . Obviously blinding by your love for CTN (and general spokesman for your station) you actually believe that says " im not wearing that i'll look like a fag" isnt homophobic? How about ...... let see.... for the sake of this example... "i cant wear that ill look like a black" . Same thing no?


At the end of the day it was used in a derogatary (sp?) term refering to the homosexual community. CTN really needs to cop the **** on

Well, what you wear can't really make you look like a black can it, the whole colour of the skin thing is a bit of a giveaway, so its not really a valid comparison. Its not a common form of speech to say "i'll look like a black", while "you look like a fag" is used quite often.

Blush_01

And that makes it less wrong how? Just because it's more widely heard doesn't make it right, does it?

It wasn't the right thing to say. If CTN are trying to make themselves seem amateur, they're doing an amazing job. It may have been a throwaway comment, and probably doesn't even warrant a thread, but it's about being more careful. You wouldn't get away with that on a non-UCD broadcast. A small bit of cop on goes a long way.

Pantsless

terry mac wrote:

Well, what you wear can't really make you look like a black can it, the whole colour of the skin thing is a bit of a giveaway, so its not really a valid comparison. Its not a common form of speech to say "i'll look like a black", while "you look like a fag" is used quite often.

You CTN people might be more liberal than the rest of us . But get it around your head that saying comments that offend the Homosexual community and most other normal people are akin to anti-semitisim and racist remarks.

Would Slick get away with saying "i cant afford that, im not a jew????" Hell no the ****ing wouldnt. "Im not wearing that, ill look like a fag" WTF is wrong with you ?

Stereotpying people into derogatary catagories is a big no no . Anyone in UCD and in society for that matter knows better. And for ****s sake anyone who works in media (me) and presents shows knows what to say and what not to say when broadcasting. If CTN actually broadcasted on the airwaves you can be sure that an article in the Tribune would be the least of their worries.

I do understand that CTN is in its infancy but with the trickle of material they actually publish its not hard to follow the rules that are laid out on various websites for broadcasting, common sense and general rules of society. Pamela must realise that Slick needs to be dumped or revamped into a mature 3rd level broadcast. Not playschool/weak jackass in the OC . CTN will go through a rake of shows until it reaches the right formula, unfortunatly for Pamela that means firing a hell of alot of people and replacing them with talent

Stabshauptmann

It is homophobic. It's like calling a bandana a nigger rag.

Its a common phrase, for ignorant people. Honestly, I havent heard anyone say something like that since junior cert.

themole

terry mac wrote:

Well, what you wear can't really make you look like a black can it, the whole colour of the skin thing is a bit of a giveaway, so its not really a valid comparison. Its not a common form of speech to say "i'll look like a black", while "you look like a fag" is used quite often.

I agree with you that such a phrase does have a meaning besides being abusive. It can mean that a guy is dressing a little too feminine, which might well be what he wants to do, but this may portray an image of being gay.

All language has context. I might say something like that while in the company of my friends and it will be seen as acceptable as they know I am not homophobic, i would not say such a thing on TV or the general media.

What I did not like about the article was that they did not give the phrase. Made it a bit of a non story for me.

Riamfada

It was used in a derogatary context. He would never want to look like a fag. FFS do you think he is some sort of filthy queer ?



Thats the impression that was given. Not "oh im afraid that a little too feminine for me"


ps: IM BACK BABY!

Ninjawombat

Hmm. I think that saying "I'll look like a fag" in everyday life is fair enough, if you're that limited in your vocabulary. So I wouldn't be hopping on everyone around me who says it. Plus, "fag" is not really the most polite term anyway, so the whole basis of the argument is ridiculous. Take out the first 4 words in the sentence, and CTN are still making themselves look like morons.

The fact is, if they're going to broadcast to a large group of people and if they're in the public eye in that way, then they should watch what they're saying. Whether they do it or not in their personal lives makes no odds to me, but if they plan to get anywhere, they're going to need to learn a few manners.

James_sb

Currently Listening to:
Stiff Little Fingers - You Can't Say Crap On The Radio

astfgl

Pantsless wrote:

Jesus Don . Obviously blinding by your love for CTN (and general spokesman for your station) you actually believe that says " im not wearing that i'll look like a fag" isnt homophobic? How about ...... let see.... for the sake of this example... "i cant wear that ill look like a black" . Same thing no?


At the end of the day it was used in a derogatary (sp?) term refering to the homosexual community. CTN really needs to cop the **** on

if the person said: "im not wearing that, i'll look fat" would that make them a cacomorphobic?
sometimes people just don't want to be seen as something but that doesn't make homophobic, racist etc. i wouldn't wear something that i thought looked gay, but thats just cause i'm so devilishly handsome that i don't want to give the gays any false hopes, not cause i'm homophobic

Chakar

Get over it lads would you..

humbert

fag is inherently derogatory:rolleyes:

Darkbloom

It can mean that a guy is dressing a little too feminine, which might well be what he wants to do, but this may portray an image of being gay.

Newsflash: You do know not all gay men are camp, screechy Queer Eye stereotypes, yeah?

Besides: fag? What kind of moron Septic wannabes actually use the term in Ireland?!

Stabshauptmann

astfgl wrote:

if the person said: "im not wearing that, i'll look fat" would that make them a cacomorphobic?

Saying I dont want to wear that, it will raise questions about my sexuality; and saying fag, arent the same thing now are they.

Thats why I like my analogy of a nigger rag, the term fag is as much the problem as the camp steriotype being envoked

Red Alert

A gay guy i know used to use "that's so gay" as his general put-down because he said he always did so no need to change when he came out.

Darkbloom

An exception doesn't really do anything for your case. It's up there with "oh, loads of my friends are black..."

Jonny Arson

Darkbloom wrote:

Besides: fag? What kind of moron Septic wannabes actually use the term in Ireland?!

Loads of people do, including myself, of course used in a slang or joking sense as I'm not homophobic. I know plenty of gay people who call other people fags jokingly and vice versa. I think most people has the ability to distinguish in what context the use of the word is sinister and what use of it isn't sinister but unfortunately there will be some who will immediately jump to any use of certain sensitive words. (yes, I expect some people will rip me to pieces over this paragraph)

I'm amazed at such a huh hah over this. Silly to show it on tv by CTN because of the PC brigade who will jump at anything but it not like it was said in a derogatory provoking manner directly to a gay person.

Thank christ some of ye have never watched South Park or Brass Eye or anything like that.....

Spectator#1

astfgl wrote:

if the person said: "im not wearing that, i'll look fat" would that make them a cacomorphobic?

No. I think that's a different thing. People would probably still object that 'fat' was being used in a derogatory sense, which complaint I would somewhat agree with, but the terms 'fat' and 'fag' are different.

'Fat' is a physical attribute that may be ascribed to someone on the basis of empirical evidence.

You can measure somebody's weight and decide if they are heavy or not, you can look at them and judge whether they look heavy or not, that's to do with size, with physical bulk. Whether or not somebody 'looks' gay, is to do with style and is a much less objective judgement.

Also, the word 'fat' - while a little negative in connotations these days - doesn't make insinuations about other, non-physical attributes the way 'fag' would invoke - in a negative way - a person's sexual orientation and all of the stereotypical attributes of such a preference. It's a very presumptuous term to use.

Granted, you might argue that homosexual people do have a certain camp look about them. While there's no doubt, I'm sure, that a high proportion of men that might be described as 'camp' might also be gay, to make that presumption on television and to use a derogatory term like 'fag' to voice it is a questionable action.

If that person wanted to express that in a less offensive way, they could have said 'I'll look camp', although the fact that it was used in a derogatory fashion would probably still prompt complaints. They could have said 'I don't think the camp look suits me', I wouldn't have had any objections to that.

I don't think it's a silly thing to complain about. I would use that word occasionally, I'd never really mean to offend anyone by it and if I did, I'd be embarrassed and ashamed for having done so. I honestly don't have any problem with gay people and I'd be embarrassed if I was accused of doing so.

For that reason I would exercise discretion when I do use it, only around people I know wouldn't get offended. That's why people get upset about these things, I would find it offensive that whoever said it didn't have the presence of mind or the sensitivity to other people's feelings to exercise discretion in their choice of words. It's not so much the word they used as the fact that they should have had a bit more cop on to say it in that situation.

And for the people who bring up Family Guy and South Park, it's different. It's all about context. Family Guy and South Park rely on saying controversial things, especially South Park. For the most part I'd argue that the intention is to laugh at such ignorant bigotry and not at stereotypes. In any case, presumably that CTN show wasn't set up to shock people or break taboos, it's about context and propriety.

hullaballoo

Maybe he thought he'd look like a cigarette. Maybe it was a white shirt with white trousers and orange runners. Maybe he had red hair too.

Fag isn't necessarily used to refer to gay men in a derogatory way. Just like me saying, "you're a dick". It doesn't mean that I think you are a dick. Or that there is anything wrong with dicks.

If I called you a penis, and meant it, it's a different story. That is offensive.

Spectator#1

hullaballoo wrote:

Maybe he thought he'd look like a cigarette. Maybe it was a white shirt with white trousers and orange runners. Maybe he had red hair too.

Fag isn't necessarily used to refer to gay men in a derogatory way. Just like me saying, "you're a dick". It doesn't mean that I think you are a dick. Or that there is anything wrong with dicks.

If I called you a penis, and meant it, it's a different story. That is offensive.

I always thought the word 'fag' used in reference to homosexuals originated as a negative term and now it's used by gay people in a more, take-the-initiative, empowering way, like the way black people say '******' now. I might be wrong of course. The Wikipedia entry on it supports this view. It's the same as the word 'queer'.

In any case, whether he was talking about a cigarette or a homosexual, he definitely didn't want to look like one. That could easily be construed as a judgement on looking like a homosexual or a cigarette, and the fact that there is ambiguity there gives people the chance to misunderstand, no matter how he meant it.

Perhaps he could say he was talking about a cigarette, he would have been better off not using a word like that though, to avoid people getting annoyed, that's all I'm saying.

That whole Big Brother thing demonstrated the problem perfectly for me, you can't say questionable things or things that might be construed as questionable in front of people that don't know you and then say afterwards "I'm not a racist/homophobic/bigoted" whatever.

Bigotry is as bigotry does. Whether or not you are, you shouldn't have said what you said in an environment where people are likely to take offence.

I don't understand your whole "dick" example. If you said to me "you're a dick", that would definitely imply that you thought me to be a dick. Not necessarily a penis, but a dick, in the slang sense, with all of it's derogatory glory.

And I'd have more reason to get annoyed than with 'fag' because at least with 'fag' there's a(n unlikely) possibility you were referring to a cigarette. I don't understand how, if you said something like "you're a dick", you could ever possibly mean it in a positive light either, like you say. Do you use it as a term of endearment?

The word 'dick' isn't the same kind of slang as the word 'fag' anyway. 'Fag' is, in one sense, a slang word denoting a group of people with a certain sexual preference. 'Dick' is just slang for penis, and it's also used as an insult, eg. '"you're a dickhead".

In any case, it's a mild curse word, and had the presenter used that, he would have offended people for cursing, if not for possibly using a stereotype.

And it doesn't matter whether you mean something or not, if you called me a penis and didn't mean it, it would still be an insult.

It would be different if, say, you called your friend a w@anker and he knew you didn't mean it, but you can only be sure of somebody understanding that it's meant as a joke or whatever if you know them, hence, don't say things like that in public. It's all about context. Just don't give people the opportunity to misunderstand.

hullaballoo

Spectator#1 wrote:

I always thought the word 'fag' used in reference to homosexuals originated as a negative term and now it's used by gay people in a more, take-the-initiative, empowering way, like the way black people say '******' now. I might be wrong of course. The Wikipedia entry on it supports this view. It's the same as the word 'queer'.

In any case, whether he was talking about a cigarette or a homosexual, he definitely didn't want to look like one. That could easily be construed as a judgement on looking like a homosexual or a cigarette, and the fact that there is ambiguity there gives people the chance to misunderstand, no matter how he meant it.

Perhaps he could say he was talking about a cigarette, he would have been better off not using a word like that though, to avoid people getting annoyed, that's all I'm saying.

That whole Big Brother thing demonstrated the problem perfectly for me, you can't say questionable things or things that might be construed as questionable in front of people that don't know you and then say afterwards "I'm not a racist/homophobic/bigoted" whatever.

Bigotry is as bigotry does. Whether or not you are, you shouldn't have said what you said in an environment where people are likely to take offence.

I don't understand your whole "dick" example. If you said to me "you're a dick", that would definitely imply that you thought me to be a dick. Not necessarily a penis, but a dick, in the slang sense, with all of it's derogatory glory.

And I'd have more reason to get annoyed than with 'fag' because at least with 'fag' there's a(n unlikely) possibility you were referring to a cigarette. I don't understand how, if you said something like "you're a dick", you could ever possibly mean it in a positive light either, like you say. Do you use it as a term of endearment?

The word 'dick' isn't the same kind of slang as the word 'fag' anyway. 'Fag' is, in one sense, a slang word denoting a group of people with a certain sexual preference. 'Dick' is just slang for penis, and it's also used as an insult, eg. '"you're a dickhead".

In any case, it's a mild curse word, and had the presenter used that, he would have offended people for cursing, if not for possibly using a stereotype.

And it doesn't matter whether you mean something or not, if you called me a penis and didn't mean it, it would still be an insult.

It would be different if, say, you called your friend a w@anker and he knew you didn't mean it, but you can only be sure of somebody understanding that it's meant as a joke or whatever if you know them, hence, don't say things like that in public. It's all about context. Just don't give people the opportunity to misunderstand.

Nice book.

Actually, I wasn't referring to your post, nor was I referring to calling you a dick. I was just pontificating in my aloof way.

That said, I'll clarify my example of "dick". Basically, "dick" is used as a slang word for "penis", but when someone calls you a dick, they don't necessarily mean you're a penis. Usually, it relates to some act or set of acts that you have carried out that embue you with a certain nastiness. Or so says my understanding of it. Naturally, it's subjective.

On a side note, why does "dick" appear to refer to this nastiness? Is it that there's a stigma attached to the phallus that makes us think "nasty" thoughts?

That said, I was really just looking for a way to work in my theory that calling someone a penis is possibly one of the most offensive things you can do. Bearing in mind that I'm very well hungover and that when I'm hungover, the things I find amusing don't always amuse other people. Especially on boards where there's no way of showing that I'm posting what I'm posting with my tongue quite firmly in my cheek.

gubbie

hullaballoo wrote:

Maybe he thought he'd look like a cigarette. Maybe it was a white shirt with white trousers and orange runners. Maybe he had red hair too.

Fag isn't necessarily used to refer to gay men in a derogatory way. Just like me saying, "you're a dick". It doesn't mean that I think you are a dick. Or that there is anything wrong with dicks.

If I called you a penis, and meant it, it's a different story. That is offensive.

Ha I like ya!!

Spectator#1

hullaballoo wrote:

Nice book.

Actually, I wasn't referring to your post, nor was I referring to calling you a dick. I was just pontificating in my aloof way.

That said, I'll clarify my example of "dick". Basically, "dick" is used as a slang word for "penis", but when someone calls you a dick, they don't necessarily mean you're a penis. Usually, it relates to some act or set of acts that you have carried out that embue you with a certain nastiness. Or so says my understanding of it. Naturally, it's subjective.

On a side note, why does "dick" appear to refer to this nastiness? Is it that there's a stigma attached to the phallus that makes us think "nasty" thoughts?

That said, I was really just looking for a way to work in my theory that calling someone a penis is possibly one of the most offensive things you can do. Bearing in mind that I'm very well hungover and that when I'm hungover, the things I find amusing don't always amuse other people. Especially on boards where there's no way of showing that I'm posting what I'm posting with my tongue quite firmly in my cheek.

The books out next year, that's an extract.

Yeah, but 'dick' refers to penis first and foremost, if you call someone a dick, you're calling them a penis and then there's a whole load of other connotations besides. I knew you were taking a cheap shot with the whole "you're a dick" thing, it was funny though, so I don't mind.

Not sure about the stigma thing, probably not a topic for this thread though. I'm just surprised you're allowed say 'penis' on Boards.ie. Haha!

Penis.

Penis.

Haha...

Darkbloom

Thank christ some of ye have never watched South Park or Brass Eye or anything like that.....

I own five seasons of South Park. One of us isn't getting the difference between SP and this guy's amazing Wildean wit, and I'm pretty sure it's not me.

Darkbloom

Penis is the clinical term, like we can (surely) use vagina on here, but not c**t.