02/03 Audi A4 1.9TDi or 1.8 Turbo - advice?

Silvera

I'm currently considering buying a '02 or '03 Audi A4 - either a 1.9TDi or a 1.8T (Turbo). Does anybody here own such a car ?

I wish to know more about them .......

- Any known faults ?
- Miles/kilometers Per Gallon (petrol or diesel) ?
- Worth buying the diesel version (I do c.12k miles per annum)?
- Parts expensive (e.g. the 1.8T has twin exhausts/boxes) ?
- How much can I expect to pay (I'm thinking of importing from UK myself - prob from private seller) ?
- Is there an 'S Line' model available (can't find any pics of same on google) ?
(I like the subtle rear boot spoiler and 8/10 spoke alloys I see on some models)

Apologies if this has been asked before!

Silvera
(Ex-Panel Beater)

E92

The 1.8T does around 34 mpg, the 1.9 TDi does around 50.(According to the EU). The S-line is only available on the facelifted one AFAIK. If you can live with an engine that sounds like a tractor, but want a faster car, have the diesel, otherwise the petrol. My heart says I'd have the petrol tbh, as I don't know if I could live with the racket from under the bonnet with the diesel, but my head thinks it would better to have the diesel, as its a lot more common and will be much easier to sell on. Prices for the diesel car be found on the links on this page http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055053189
The petrol is a good bit cheaper, and not nearly as common, but I remember it costing more to buy new, so will be harder to sell on at resale time. http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=522841
http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=524588

JHMEG

No VAG 1.9 TD can be described as fast. And in this case the 1.8T petrol is quite a bit quicker, and is the faster car. The 1.9TD would be better for agricultural work (pulling trailers and the like).

IIRC, most 1.8 petrols in this country are non-turbo (another cost-cutting "Ireland special").

It used to be the case with the 96- model that the front suspension, derived from the Passat of the same era, wore out prematurely. I think this model is the same (people I knew with the older model have Toyotas etc now).

macshadow

I've been looking at the A4 recently on parkers.co.uk and theaa.com and i'm a bit confused about the auto box,some are cvt and some auto? i know their similar but thats all i know.Parkers say the 1.9td engine is very coarse but if you go for the cvt there's a 2.0td s line in 04 reg 138bhp and 44mpg.
A new car is not on the cards at moment for me but if you could keep us informed of how you get on silvera.

HashSlinging

JHMEG wrote:

No VAG 1.9 TD can be described as fast. And in this case the 1.8T petrol is quite a bit quicker, and is the faster car. The 1.9TD would be better for agricultural work (pulling trailers and the like).

IIRC, most 1.8 petrols in this country are non-turbo (another cost-cutting "Ireland special").

It used to be the case with the 96- model that the front suspension, derived from the Passat of the same era, wore out prematurely. I think this model is the same (people I knew with the older model have Toyotas etc now).

BuLL.

the 1.9tdi 130bhp unit has more mid-range acceration than the 150bhp 1.8T, you'd be lucky to achive 15mpg on the 1.8T when having a go.

The OP is looking for 02 - 03 A4s and all these 1.8s have a turbo.

maidhc

JHMEG wrote:

The 1.9TD would be better for agricultural work (pulling trailers and the like).

A car that can pull trailers well is normally one that can haul itself along reasonably lively without constantly stirring the gearbox.

$Leon$

In day to day driving the Tdi (especially the 130bhp) is better.
Better fuel economy, more torque lower in the range, the 6th gear.
The only bad thing about the diesels is they have a shorter rev range

prospect

To the OP, ignore all the agricultural and tractor remarks. Obviously more people who are still in the 80's.
Really people, when you know SFA about something, it is better to just keep quiet.

The TDi will be more economical, and 'slightly' louder. But only really noticable on start-up on a cold morning.

Choice between Diesel and Petrol is a subjective thing. I prefer driving diesel cars (with turbos), as the blend of comfort, power, economy and mid range performance (i.e. where it matters) is best for me.

yop

JHMEG wrote:

No VAG 1.9 TD can be described as fast. And in this case the 1.8T petrol is quite a bit quicker, and is the faster car. The 1.9TD would be better for agricultural work (pulling trailers and the like).

IIRC, most 1.8 petrols in this country are non-turbo (another cost-cutting "Ireland special").

It used to be the case with the 96- model that the front suspension, derived from the Passat of the same era, wore out prematurely. I think this model is the same (people I knew with the older model have Toyotas etc now).

Have you actually drive a 1.9 TDI audi.... :rolleyes:

I have the 130 bhp and it is very nippy, the 100 bhp is a very dead car compared to it.
I average anything from 40 - 48 mpg, rarely get 50+ due to the crowded roads and amount of road works I seem to come across.

I suspect that the 1.8 petrol (is it 160bhp) would be quicker but will of course have less mpg, all depends what you want.

Good luck with your search

bazz26

The A4 TDi of that vintage to go for is the 130bhp PD 6 speed. It is in a different league to the standard 100bhp version. If looking for the Quottro body kit or boot lid spoiler then more than likely it will need to be a UK import Sport or Quottro model as opposed to the SE.

The 1.8T petrol model has 163bhp afaik. This is a bit rare in Ireland but common enough in the UK with a higher spec. It's a retuned version of the engine also found in the VW MkIV Golf GTi, Audi TT, A3 & A6, Seat Leon Cupra and Cupra R, VW Passat and Skoda Octavia vRS. The thing to watch with this engine is the cylinder coils were prone to failure which VAG issued a recall on a few years ago. Should have been replaced by now but you never do know for sure. It effected all VAG 1.8 litre 20 valve engines, both turbo and non turbo versions.

Given the choice between the two I would go for the 1.9 TDi PD 130 as it gives better mpg, has more torque, just as much pace in everyday driving, will carry the miles better and will be easier to sell on afterwards.

If going to the UK for one make sure you get a HPI check done on the car.

E92

The 1.8 T had 150 bhp before the facelift, after that it has 163 bhp. The reason why the diesel would be a good bit faster in the real world is because it has 229 lb ft of torque(the 130 bhp version), and the 1.8T has 155 lb ft. Torque is the thing that you get when overtaking, not power. In relation to 'Irish specials', they're all at that. The BMW 316i is 'specially' for Ireland. We were one of the 'select' countries to get the Toyota Avensis with a 1.6 petrol. And we're special enough to be getting a Mondeo with a 1.6 again.That will be the worst model in the range, I haven't even seen the car, and haven't a clue about its performance yet, but I know it will be regardless. We were denied the TDCi engine in the Mondeo LX for about 3 years after the UK got an LX TDCi. Our 1.8 Mondeo LX has 108 bhp, while the 1.8 LX across the pond has the 123 bhp engine. We had the misfortune to get the VW Bora(ing) with a teeney weeney 1.4.The VW Jetta here has 1.6 with 102 bhp as the base engine, in the UK they get a 115 bhp engine to start off. Bring on the reform of VRT(and hopefully its abolition), hopefully 'Irish specials' will become a thing of the past. The 1.6 Passat doesn't exist in the UK either, nor does a 1.6 Vectra.

Silvera

Thanks for all the responses guys .......makes for interesting reading!

I was slightly biased towards the 1.9TDi before starting this post, but now I definitely WILL be going for one!

I plan on purchasing in the UK. I'm currently researching whats out there and what it would finally cost (i.e. VRT included)

Best so far ....

'02 A4 1.9TDi 130bhp SE 52k 1 owner Full ASH Silver (from UK dealer) - c.€14500 incl VRT.

(My current budget is c.€15000)

tech

I had a 1.8T from the Garage for a few days some yoke to move but could not keep petrol in it, You would want a tanker following you , I found it basic enough no steering wheel controls on the 04 models, but if I was buying one id got for the 130bhp diesel, as you have the best of both worlds

Moanin

Try www.allapprovedcars.com

All main dealers use this site so you should be able to get a genuine one.I bought mine (2004 A4 1.9tdi 130se) last year from this site from a main dealer with f.a.s.h.No problems so far and I saved about €3k!

unkel

HashSlinging wrote:

The OP is looking for 02 - 03 A4s and all these 1.8s have a turbo.

True afaik

HashSlinging wrote:

the 1.9tdi 130bhp unit has more mid-range acceration than the 150bhp 1.8T

But aren't most 02-03 1.8Ts 163BHP? 0-100km/h they are a lot faster than the fastest 1.9 diesel. I guess mid-range there would not be that much between them.

Also, Silvera, the lower end 1.9 diesels have only 100BHP, which is not a lot, but it can't really be called lethargic either

The 130BHP diesel does 0-100km/h in about 10s. That's decent enough for that size car. Is sure isn't slow

I suggest you do your sums. The diesel will cost more to buy, but will save you on fuel and will be easier to sell - even with a high mileage (which can not be said for the petrol)

JHMEG

yop wrote:

Have you actually drive a 1.9 TDI audi.... :rolleyes:

Unfortuntely I have. A late 90s A4 a while back. I had a loaner from a garage for a couple of days and I was glad to be giving it back. The most unrefined engine I ever had the displeasure of being in control of.

macshadow wrote:

Parkers say the 1.9td engine is very coarse

Spot on.

hashslinging wrote:

the 1.9tdi 130bhp unit has more mid-range acceration than the 150bhp 1.8T, you'd be lucky to achive 15mpg on the 1.8T when having a go.

As unkel pointed out, the 1.8T is considerably quicker to 100km/h.. so what does "mid-range" mean?

E92 wrote:

Torque is the thing that you get when overtaking, not power.

The old torque v power thing again. And also wrong, you need both. But for overtaking, you need acceleration, which comes from power. Compare a 196Nm Honda Civic Type-R and a 285Nm Ford Transit. Which would you rather be overtaking in?

Fozzie Bear

Sounds like a tractor! Good for pulling trailers? :rolleyes:

Obviously you have not been in many while being driven. This is not the 1980's with your large, sluggish, dirty, smokey noisey diesel. Current day Audi's diesels are among the best in the business. The way ye describe it you would think that the radio and any conversation is impossible to hear inside a 1.9 Tdi and all they are fit for is pulling cattle trailers...

I have had a 01 (newer shape) 1.9 Tdi since last June and i am absolutely delighted with it. I was in the same boat as you as i was looking at the 1.8 too but i do about 15-20,000 per year so i went for fuel economy. I drove both and both cars are fast, accelerate like a bat out of hell and are built to last. But the 1.9 was for me and i got excellent fuel economy, loads of power and acceleration and you will have an excellently engineered and built car to boot. Total and utter boll*x to say otherwise just because it's a diesel. My advise is to go for a test drive in both and you will see there is feck all difference performance wise between them. The real issue is fuel usage.

omega man

How is a 130bhp tdi faster than a 150bhp petrol turbo which is lighter and has a better rev range? Might get an early burst of torque but the petrol will always win out imo. If its fuel economy you want go for the tdi but the petrol has better performance and looks nicer with the twin pipes. Get a 163bhp model if possible and if that bores you then get a remap to just under 200bhp!:)

JHMEG

Fozzie Bear wrote:

I drove both and both cars are fast, accelerate like a bat out of hell

What were you used to driving? A 60bhp 1.4 litre Golf maybe which has the urgency of treacle?

My 2.0 Accord automatic does 100km/h in ~10.7 secs, and that's a slow car. An A4 1.9 TDI does it in ~10.8, which would also make it a slow car.

craichoe

I recently went from Petrol to diesel, got a 00 Skoda Octavia 1.9 TDi and i'd never look back. You just have to get used to driving a diesel, you can't just go straight from a petrol, jump into a diesel and get the same experience without changing your driving style.

Who says Diesels are noisy !, ok .. in fairness .. it does sound like a van when idling from the outside, but this is hardly noticeable in the car. Gear changes are smooth and power delivery is spot on. The power band is basically between 1800 and 3500 rpm.

Lots of pulling power too, something i noticed is you can overtake going up a hill

On the noise thing though ... i could be going deaf due to driving a zxr 250 ... redline was at 19000 RPM

HashSlinging

JHMEG wrote:

As unkel pointed out, the 1.8T is considerably quicker to 100km/h.. so what does "mid-range" mean?

The old torque v power thing again. And also wrong, you need both. But for overtaking, you need acceleration, which comes from power. Compare a 196Nm Honda Civic Type-R and a 285Nm Ford Transit. Which would you rather be overtaking in?

Mid - range?? 60km/h - 120Km/h in which case the 130 Tdi is faster, most people dont cruise traffic lights looking for a race to 100 km/h.

Your comparison of a Honda Civic Type-R to a transit van is hilarious, what about comparing a 200bhp diesel car to a 200bhp petrol hatchback car, who would win your little rally then.

The Insider

JHMEG wrote:

No VAG 1.9 TD can be described as fast. And in this case the 1.8T petrol is quite a bit quicker, and is the faster car. The 1.9TD would be better for agricultural work (pulling trailers and the like).

:rolleyes:

You are talking shi**. I currently own a 1.9 TDi, the 130 bhp version. It's a powerful car to drive and extremely nippy. Obliviously you have never driven one.

unkel

A bit less of the "bullsh1t" and "you're talking sh!te" comments please folks...

craichoe

Drive a red badge Passat TDi and compare

Fuel Efficiency,
Resale Value
Reliability
Engine Life

And tell me why do diesels hold their resale value ?

Its a far superior engine and anyone that harps on about them being crap has just never driver one, or has jumped into one for ten minutes and driven it the same way as they drive a petrol.

Its like driving bike with an inline 4 engine the same way as a v-twin and saying the v-twin is a pile of junk because you drove it the same way !

Or even a parallel twin vs a v-twin ! Completely different animals with different characteristics, you have to treat them as such ! !!!!

prospect

JHMEG wrote:

Unfortuntely I have. A late 90s A4 a while back. I had a loaner from a garage for a couple of days and I was glad to be giving it back. The most unrefined engine I ever had the displeasure of being in control

To be fair,

You indicate that:
You once drove a diesel car
It was ten years ago, or a ten year old car
It was a loan car from a dealer, i.e. not exactly the most cared for car

And that is your basis of judgement of all diesel cars :rolleyes:

Petro Vs Diesel is purely subjective. There is no correct answer which is better. However, having driven a huge range of vehicles with varying engine sizes, makes, models and fiel types, I far far far prefer diesel.

It is true that equivelent size/output petrol cars will be faster off the spot. But, when accelerating from 40mph up to 70mph, my current diesel car is far superior to the majority of petrol cars i have ever driven.

P

fletch

The Insider wrote:

:rolleyes:

You are talking shi**. I currently own a 1.9 TDi, the 130 bhp version. It's a powerful car to drive and extremely nippy. Obliviously you have never driven one.

Skoda Fabia 1.9TDI 130bhp - "The in gear acceleration times are 50-70 mph in 5.6 seconds, quicker than BMW's 330i which needs 6.0 seconds. 20-40 mph in 2.4 seconds is as quick as the Lotus Elise 111R" - source

JHMEG

HashSlinging wrote:

Mid - range?? 60km/h - 120Km/h in which case the 130 Tdi is faster,

Proof?

HashSlinging wrote:

Your comparison of a Honda Civic Type-R to a transit van is hilarious

Read more carefully. Was an example of how "torque is what's needed for overtaking" is rubbish.

@prospect: Specifically a 98/99 A4 TDI. For 3 days from a garage. Was 3-4 years ago. Is that clear enough for you? And just so you're still clear: I said that that car was the most unrefined engine I've ever been in control of. I never said it was the only diesel I've driven, and I never said that because that one was unrefined that all diesels are.

@Fletch: yeah, it's known that petrol cars don't accelerate well in top gear at low RPM. Top Gear illustrated that with an EVO and some diesel powered family car.

unkel

HashSlinging wrote:

what about comparing a 200bhp diesel car to a 200bhp petrol

But we're comparing an aging 130BHP 8V diesel against a turbo charged 163BHP 20V petrol. The huge benefit a relatively modern diesel has over a N/A petrol is higher torque and especially the availability of it at low revs

The turbo charged petrol here does not have as much of it as the diesel, but still quite a lot. Sure the diesel will win any test where the revs are kept artificially low (as in 80-120km/h in 5th gear), but if one is allowed to use the full range of the petrol, It's a different story

But as many people have said, resale and economy are very important factors to most of us! Out of interest, anyone know what ballpark prices are we talking for same age, same spec 1.8Ts and 1.9TDI 130s for say an '02?

New there was very little in it which, unsurprisingly, was a huge factor in most people going diesel!

peasant

Sure the diesel will win any test where the revs are kept artificially low

They're not kept artificially low ...they don't go any higher

Anybody trying to rev the nuts off a diesel will be dissapointed, equally as dissapointed as someone who puts the boot down in a turbo petrol at 1500 rpm and expects a punch in the back.

All in all, I'd say that the 1.8t probably has the more sports-car like performance ...if driven like a sports car with lots of shifting down and keeping the revs up etc. Whereas the 1.9 td will feel punchier under normal driving conditions for lazy people (i.e providing ooomph either from standstill or from trundling along at low revs without having to shift down)

maidhc

JHMEG wrote:

@prospect: Specifically a 98/99 A4 TDI. For 3 days from a garage. Was 3-4 years ago. Is that clear enough for you? And just so you're still clear: I said that that car was the most unrefined engine I've ever been in control of. I never said it was the only diesel I've driven, and I never said that because that one was unrefined that all diesels are.

Diesels are FAR quieter cars to drive than petrols. The 1.9TDI is a particularly bad example of a noisey diesel engine.

In comparison the Corolla D4d is more or less inaudible at tickover, and has all the benefits of low revs when cruising.

Moanin

maidhc wrote:

Diesels are FAR quieter cars to drive than petrols. The 1.9TDI is a particularly bad example of a noisey diesel engine.

In comparison the Corolla D4d is more or less inaudible at tickover, and has all the benefits of low revs when cruising.

That's because the toyota is common rail diesel and the Audi isn't.Have an A4 tdi myself and can highly recommend them