alfa thread- easy now

cantdecide

friend of mine fell head over heels for a 156. and why not- it is a car worth liking. it's a hell of a lot better than the 206 he had in mind for a lot more money.

when driving- it didn't overheat but it seemed to run a bit cool. when parked up, it rose up to a little above ninety and dropped below ninety when the fan came on. it repeated this cycle and cooled off again when driven on the opn road again.

should i be worried about the fact that it fluctuates so much??? my '92 holds temp. bang on all the time regardless of the conditions.

Usually I defend alfas as a matter of principal.. But, to be honest I'd run a mile from this one.

If it isn't an electrical problem it could be something way more serious.

cantdecide

damn it, i know you're right. i was hoping for someone to reassure me that it was an alfa thing, but i would have been more surprised if it was. shame really, it's obviously a very well kept clean car otherwise.

richardsheil

Thermostat is about 60 euro from dealer. Easy to fit.

Alfas are great. To hell with begrudgers.

Just make sure to change timing belt every 36k.

Anan1

My guess is it needs a new thermostat too. Your friend could do worse than to have the car looked over by Gerry Campbell at TI autos.

cantdecide

i wish you were right but i've never heard of a heating/ cooling problem being caused by a thermostat. i'm not a begrudger btw. i quite like them warts 'n' all.

top gear got it right with the brera review when they said you would buy one yourself but you couldn't reccommend it to a friend.:D

Anan1

If the thermostat gets stuck on open then coolant will be sent through the radiator even when the engine doesn't need cooling. When you drive (or when the fan comes on), the cold air passing over the radiator brings the coolant temperature down. When you stop moving, the temperature comes back up again. I'm not sure that it's the thermostat, but it sounds as though it might be. If the rest of the car is good, then i'd definitely investigate further - a dodgy thermostat's not a biggie. In any case, it's always a good idea to have an Alfa inspected prior to purchase. Gerry's a good guy, he'll tell your friend what the story is straight away. Good luck!:)

alias no.9

From what I'm reading you've described a situation where...

When driving the temperature needle rose from cold to a point at which it kept a steady position

When the car was parked with the engine idling, the temperature rose to a little above 90, the fan kicked in, brought the temperature to down below 90, and switched off, the temperature started to rise again and this cycle repeated itself

When you say it seemed to run a little cool, was your worry that the position of the needle during normal driving was low compared to your car, even though it was steady, or was there something else in particular that made you think the car was running cold?

The temperature gauges in different types of car can behave differently. Just because the position at which the needle keeps a steady position is different to your car, doesn't necessarily mean there's anything wrong. In general if the point at which it becomes steady after warming up should be about 1/4 of the way up from the lowest point on the graduated temperature range of the gauge, sometimes it may be a little higher, and the fan should kick in if it rises to about 1/2 on the graduated temperature range of the gauge.

Unless the needle had settled extremely low on the scale, I don't think there's any thing to worry about. My 156 used always sit very slightly above the 1/4 mark. Recently I've had a new radiator put in after an incident with a dog and now it sits ever so slightly below the 1/4 mark. If it's reading something like this on the open road, I don't think there's an issue.

Lex Luthor

cantdecide wrote:

friend of mine fell head over heels for a 156. and why not- it is a car worth liking. it's a hell of a lot better than the 206 he had in mind for a lot more money.

when driving- it didn't overheat but it seemed to run a bit cool. when parked up, it rose up to a little above ninety and dropped below ninety when the fan came on. it repeated this cycle and cooled off again when driven on the opn road again.

should i be worried about the fact that it fluctuates so much??? my '92 holds temp. bang on all the time regardless of the conditions.

Its the stat. Common problem with the 156. The stat is stuck open. Normally they run at about 80-82 deg when the stat is working correct.
The temp you describe at idle around the 90 deg is fine.

My stat failed open last year on my 156....in normal driving it was running about 65deg....if I sat in traffic it would rise to about 91/92 deg, fan would kick on and drop to below 90 and so on, until I took off again on the open road and it would go back down to 65deg.

I replaced mine myself in about 2hrs.

If you would like to try it, I have all the pictures and description on how to do it, otherwise get a mechanic to replace it. PM me your email address if you want the file

Its not a big problem....you might find your fuel consumption increase a little but I'd still get it replaced.

cantdecide

i thought that if it was stuck open, it would never warm up.

i had a tipo with a "modified" thermostat and even with the headgasket problem which became apparent when i changed the thermostat, it ran permanently cold.

the needle is at the quarter mark when driving and it goes up to half mark (90) when in traffic. it goes a little above 90 and the fan kicks in and it cools to below 90. it warms back above, fan, below 90, above 90, fan, below 90 and on and on in this cycle. if you take it back on the open road, it cools back down to the quarter mark.

what i'm saying is that my own car's needle goes to the correct mark (half mark in bmws) and it never varies a millimetre regardless of the conditions. i'm very surprised to see the alfa needle up and down like the proverbial....

are you saying the varying temperature is ok in an alfa?

Anan1

If the thermostat were ok, the car would stay at normal operating temp, just like yoiur own car. From your description, it's the thermostat.

Lex Luthor

cantdecide wrote:

i thought that if it was stuck open, it would never warm up.

i had a tipo with a "modified" thermostat and even with the headgasket problem which became apparent when i changed the thermostat, it ran permanently cold.

the needle is at the quarter mark when driving and it goes up to half mark (90) when in traffic. it goes a little above 90 and the fan kicks in and it cools to below 90. it warms back above, fan, below 90, above 90, fan, below 90 and on and on in this cycle. if you take it back on the open road, it cools back down to the quarter mark.

what i'm saying is that my own car's needle goes to the correct mark (half mark in bmws) and it never varies a millimetre regardless of the conditions. i'm very surprised to see the alfa needle up and down like the proverbial....

are you saying the varying temperature is ok in an alfa?

If the stat was stuck open in your BMW, then you would see the same symptoms. BMW's when working correct stay in the middle and never budge, thats just how the gauge is set up.
The Alfa when working correct will hover about the 80/82 deg mark. Just because it is not in the middle, doesn't mean it isn't right. The middle mark is set for the fan on/off point on the Alfa. Alfa do their clocks very different to most other cars. If you'll notice the speedo starts at 6o'clock for the '0'. How many other cars have you seen this?

The fan is working fine and the temp sender is working fine as its opertaing the fan at the correct temperature. The stat is just stuck open and this doesn't mean that the car won't heat up, it just means it will never get to optimum running temperature.

Trust me, its a common fault with the 156. 100's of stats have been changed for this issue alone.

kyote00

I've had a 156 since 1999 and done over 90k miles on it. I've had that problem twice in its life and it was the thermostat both times...

other things to check with a 156 are:
- front wishbones have been redone (check service book) and or check for squeks as you drive over ramps...
- variator has been replaces (noisy diesel like sound on start up)
- rough idle (MAF unit or lamdba sensor)
- timing belt done

cantdecide

how expensive are all these jobs?

testicle

To be perfectly honest, from what I understand of what you are saying, this sounds perfectly normal for an Alfa. Alfa temperature guages are real time, and show wild fluctuations in temperature. As long as the fan kicks in as it goes above 90, it's perfectly normal.

Lex Luthor

kyote00 wrote:

- rough idle (MAF unit or lamdba sensor)

just to add to this....I had rough idling on my 156. Everything pointed to the MAF unit so I replaced it. Only very very slightly better, but not enough to make me jump for joy that I had just spent over €200 on the MAF. Was just about to get the throttle valve replaced when I heard blowing coming from the front flexi section of the exhaust. When I got the exhaust section replaced, the idling was back to perfect. There must have been a small hole in teh flexi section that was obviously affecting the air mixture as the lamba sensor is located very close to the flexi section.

So bear in mind to get under the car and check this flexi section of the exhaust. Its located right at the front of the exhaust as it mates with the manifold. They have a tendency to blow through after a while. Mine happened at about 74k miles

Lex Luthor

cantdecide wrote:

how expensive are all these jobs?

timing belt/variator get done every 36-40k miles MAX. Rough cost is about €550 from an independent specialist. This is the one you need to make sure is done right or you will end up with egg and engine oil all over your face.

MAF's cost about €200 and can be swapped in 5 mins by a 5yr old.

Upper wishbones I cant remember but not that expensive..should last about 40-50k miles.

The rear stub axle bushes are made out of chewing gum and need to be replaced when the timing belt is being done. They are about €5 each. Need 2.

Mike07

Sorry Folks--- Just bought an alfa and notice this too--- car runs at 45 rises to 90 in trafic and fan kickes in --returns to 45

Is this a problem?-- reading the board, it's abit unclear do i need to get stat changed?

galwaytt

...you can change it if you like, but what you're seeing is the stat actually working - it may not be opening very smoothly, or the gauge is under-damped and shows a bit too much info, but the fact is, the car is working normally..........

Mike07

oops-- need those glasses i think

Car runs on open road at slightly over 70 on open road-- rises to 90 in traf where fan kick in and brings it down slightly--- goes back down further on open road to 70ish

Lex Luthor

Mike, typically they run about 80-82 but mine is running about 75 at the moment and I'm putting that down to the colder outside temp.
If it drops below 70 then I'd be looking at your stat but you're ok for now

hows the new wheels going for you?

Mike07

Drove nearly 600 miles in it this weekend-- down in kerry for a wedding the one tank of petro did it tooo, which i was happy with

I would have happily driven another 1000---- lovely drive--- nice and lively for a 1.6 too.

back passanger door handle is a bit faulty though

I'll jut have to learn to use the driver door:)

Countryripple

Mike07. PM sent.

Lex Luthor

Mike07 wrote:

Drove nearly 600 miles in it this weekend-- down in kerry for a wedding the one tank of petro did it tooo, which i was happy with

I would have happily driven another 1000---- lovely drive--- nice and lively for a 1.6 too.

back passanger door handle is a bit faulty though

I'll jut have to learn to use the driver door:)

Thats exceptional mpg you are getting. On a long run I'd probably at best get 480 from the one tank from the 1.8

unkel

Mike07 wrote:

Drove nearly 600 miles in it this weekend-- down in kerry for a wedding the one tank of petro did it tooo, which i was happy with

That's nearly 45MPG if the tank was full at the start and empty at the end. Pretty good going!

Mike07

It was nearly empty i'd say when i refilled at 550 miles, might have been doing well to get the next 50!!!! -- set the mileage now to check the mpg-- i'll let you know

a fair chunk of that 600 was at at 50mph on the back roads of kerry---nice low revs

Anan1

Mike07 wrote:

Drove nearly 600 miles in it this weekend-- down in kerry for a wedding the one tank of petro did it tooo, which i was happy with

Mike07 wrote:

a fair chunk of that 600 was at at 50mph on the back roads of kerry---nice low revs

I think you might be missing the point of driving an Alfa.;)

Lex Luthor

Anan1 wrote:

I think you might be missing the point of driving an Alfa.;)

very good...

open her up Mike, keep the revs above 3,500 and you'll enjoy her a lot more and so will Bertie

Mike07

cantdecide

Mike07 wrote:

oops-- need those glasses i think

Car runs on open road at slightly over 70 on open road-- rises to 90 in traf where fan kick in and brings it down slightly--- goes back down further on open road to 70ish

can't read the guages without glasses and you're flyin up and down the public roads.........................:D

only messing. congrats on purchasing a truly lovely car

Mike07

Cheers

Had lots of fun Sunday, when I wasnt carting around nervous women-- It just loves cornering and tears off in third--

But it is an alfa!!! 4 days in

1) Still no second key--- The one with the remote central locking--- The car was advertised with it so i think the dealer is just stalling to see if i'll drop it--

2) Back LH outer door handle-- loose on bottom (catch is broken )--- working fine though

3) noticed that there was a clip hanging loose under the dash on drivers side--the one for holding the dash closed!!! tried screwing it closed but the thread is obviously gone ---wondered how it was defying gravity-- last owner or garage have driven a screw in on RSH to hold it up-- It's discreet though and solid.

Otherwise lovely clean car and very glad so far that i purchased!! --:cool: