Riot squad to be at Croker on Saturday

cushtac

Hagar wrote:

There were no tanks in the Michael Collins film, that was an armoured car. There was an armoured car involved in the real incident as decribed here

I was trying not to be pedantic about it, and the incident did not take place as depicted in the film (i.e. Brits driving onto the pitch and milling everyone out of it with machine guns.)

axer

Seanies32 wrote:

English or Irish? These horses where bought from an English Police Force. I bet they where English!:)

My understanding is that the Gardai and Irish Defense forces only buy Irish Draughts.

I don't even understand why they played "God Save the Queen" at the Ireland v England Rugby match. England has no National Anthem. GSTQ is the national anthem for the uk as a whole.

Firstly, Ireland was not competing against the uk - only against England.
Secondly, as Northern Ireland is unfortunately still part of the uk and Northern Ireland are part of the Irish Rugby team - the song is not really representing England.

I have no problem with them playing GSTQ in Croke Park but I do believe they should have made a public apology to the Irish people or at least some sort of gesture before or after the match for what they did the last time they were in Croke Park.

seamus

axer wrote:

I have no problem with them playing GSTQ in Croke Park but I do believe they should have made a public apology to the Irish people or at least some sort of gesture before or after the match for what they did the last time they were in Croke Park.

Funnily enough, *they* didn't do anything. In fact, they weren't even in Croke Park before.

The people representing the nation that played Ireland on Saturday, were not representing the same nation that entered Croke Park those 80-odd years ago. While a nation doesn't forget its past actions, nor does it become completely disassociated with it, asking a nation to apologise for an act which was carried out when 99% of its citizens weren't even born yet is like asking a man to apologise for his grandfather's crimes. It's idiotic and inflammatory.

Countries aren't like people. A man can commit a crime, and he will always be that same man that committed the crime. A country that commits a crime, is only that country as long as the same people remain in power.

NutJob

Muppet of the year award goes to........

Plissken1

NutJob wrote:

Muppet of the year award goes to........

brilliant pic, sums it all up really

"NO CHAV SCUM" either ..... haha :-)

axer

seamus wrote:

The people representing the nation that played Ireland on Saturday, were not representing the same nation that entered Croke Park those 80-odd years ago. While a nation doesn't forget its past actions, nor does it become completely disassociated with it, asking a nation to apologise for an act which was carried out when 99% of its citizens weren't even born yet is like asking a man to apologise for his grandfather's crimes. It's idiotic and inflammatory.

A government should take responsibility for atrocities caused by that nation in the past. The government is an organisation, whilst it can have different people running it, it is still the same organisation. 1920 is not that long ago. I think a gesture of the sort would improve anglo-irish relations and would help some move on.

Plissken1

axer wrote:

A government should take responsibility for atrocities caused by that nation in the past. The government is an organisation, whilst it can have different people running it, it is still the same organisation. 1920 is not that long ago. I think a gesture of the sort would improve anglo-irish relations and would help some move on.

Get a couple of ministers from both Governments, to go on Gerry Springer and sort it all out !

mackerski

axer wrote:

A government should take responsibility for atrocities caused by that nation in the past.

Should a rugby team?

humanji

axer wrote:

A government should take responsibility for atrocities caused by that nation in the past. The government is an organisation, whilst it can have different people running it, it is still the same organisation. 1920 is not that long ago. I think a gesture of the sort would improve anglo-irish relations and would help some move on.

And when can the British people recieve your apology for all the IRA atrocities?

seamus

axer wrote:

A government should take responsibility for atrocities caused by that nation in the past.

I disagree to a point. Think of it this way - If the U.S. ever manage to get a stable democratic government in Iraq, are they responsible for the atrocities carried out by Saddam Hussein?

I only believe that a government still bears responsibility for the nation's atrocities if they continue to carry out similar acts, and they fail to acknowledge the atrocities committed by their predecessors. Acknowledging an atrocity doesn't imply the need for an apology, only a recognition of the fact that it was a mistake.

Asking for an apology from a Government that's miles apart from the Government of the day is useless filibustering. Just another obstacle that the hardliners use to justify their bull****.

If the UK Government should apologise for the murders at Croke Park, then we should, by the same token, apologise for the deaths of those British agents on the same day.

Ste.phen

seamus wrote:

I disagree to a point. Think of it this way - If the U.S. ever manage to get a stable democratic government in Iraq, are they responsible for the atrocities carried out by Saddam Hussein?

I only believe that a government still bears responsibility for the nation's atrocities if they continue to carry out similar acts, and they fail to acknowledge the atrocities committed by their predecessors. Acknowledging an atrocity doesn't imply the need for an apology, only a recognition of the fact that it was a mistake.

Asking for an apology from a Government that's miles apart from the Government of the day is useless filibustering. Just another obstacle that the hardliners use to justify their bull****.

If the UK Government should apologise for the murders at Croke Park, then we should, by the same token, apologise for the deaths of those British agents on the same day.

Hear, hear.

I think the scumbag in the Celtic tshirt pretty much sums up the stupidity of most of the debate.

starn

NutJob wrote:

Muppet of the year award goes to........

Anyone knw what page of the Indo this appeared on

mackerski

seamus wrote:

If the U.S. ever manage to get a stable democratic government in Iraq, are they responsible for the atrocities carried out by Saddam Hussein?

Only if they armed him and helped him stay in power and stood idly by while he did it.

axer

humanji wrote:

And when can the British people recieve your apology for all the IRA atrocities?

The IRA were neither elected representitives nor statutory upholders of the law. You cannot draw that parallel.

mackerski wrote:

Should a rugby team?

Nope, but on an occaision like that in Croke Park there was an opportunity for the English Government to do it.

seamus wrote:

I disagree to a point. Think of it this way - If the U.S. ever manage to get a stable democratic government in Iraq, are they responsible for the atrocities carried out by Saddam Hussein?

That is a completely different situation. The governing body in that case was ousted by force and completely removed.

seamus wrote:

I only believe that a government still bears responsibility for the nation's atrocities if they continue to carry out similar acts, and they fail to acknowledge the atrocities committed by their predecessors. Acknowledging an atrocity doesn't imply the need for an apology, only a recognition of the fact that it was a mistake.

I agree, maybe asking for an apology might be a bit much but they should make a public recognition of their country's wrong doing against the Irish nation in the past via some wreath laying or otherwise.

seamus wrote:

If the UK Government should apologise for the murders at Croke Park, then we should, by the same token, apologise for the deaths of those British agents on the same day.

Those who killed those British agents were not elected representitives of Ireland nor were they statutory upholders of the law. Again a parallel cannot be drawn between the two.

cushtac

axer wrote:

Nope, but on an occasion like that in Croke Park there was an opportunity for the English Government to do it.

The GAA has said that any apology or gesture should be an occasion in & of istself, and that it's not up to a sporting body to do so.

InFront

starn wrote:

Anyone knw what page of the Indo this appeared on

I just leafed through it this morning, it's one of the first few pages iirc. It's also in the Times, sports section.

Guy:Incognito

I demand that no more scandanavians be let in to this country until we get a formal appology from the respective governments for the raping and pillaging of the vikings.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Immortalised on the BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/player/sol/newsid_6390000/newsid_6397100?redirect=6397165.stm&news=1&bbram=1&nbwm=1&bbwm=1&nbram=1
In case you missed it...

csk

seamus wrote:

If the UK Government should apologise for the murders at Croke Park, then we should, by the same token, apologise for the deaths of those British agents on the same day.

I fail to see why we should apologise. There is a difference between a counter intelligence operation carried out by the Irish Army and sanctioned by a Minister of the Government and a force of occupation murdering random people at a football match.

That being said I don't think the British Government should have apologised Saturday either.

mackerski

axer wrote:

the English Government

No such thing.

NutJob

starn wrote:

Anyone knw what page of the Indo this appeared on

Sry two months of newspapers just went for recycleing :mad:

axer

mackerski wrote:

No such thing.

yep, sorry - british government.

robinph

axer wrote:

yep, sorry - british government.

But it was a Rugby Union match at the weekend not League, and thats the one of the few games where there is a GB team rather than individual ones for each "country".

Edit: But next year there will be two out of the three constituent countries playing at Croke Park so it would make more sense for an appolgy to be done at some point then instead.