Firearms security measures when there are children in the house

Clare gunner

For some people, this may simply not be feasible e.g. someone who has teenage kids and does not want to have a firearm in their house, safe or no safe.

Going abit OT here.
But wouldnt it be more prudent to teach your children /teenagers [1] somthing about safe gun handling first off.The US NRA has a exellent course on that for parents and kids.
[2] limits.IE touch those guns and you wont be sitting down for dinner for the next month as your ass will be so red from a spanking...Oh sorry,thats SO UN PC these days... Well,worked for me as my dad told me that when I was 6 and he kept his guns loaded in the house,in the bad old days of Ireland in the 1970s. Well,do whatever the modern PC way of teaching children limits is.
[3] Keeping access things like keys and codes to your self and under your control at all times?

Sparks

It's a bit OT, but it's a good general topic CG, so I'll split it off to it's own thread on security measures for firearms when there are children in the house.

Vegeta

Treat children as live in thieves. Safe for guns and safe for ammo. Parent keeps keys on them at all times.

Sparks

And personally, for me, [3] is laughable. Kids are better than cat burglars at getting into places they shouldn't go, and as to [1] and [2], if I can see 40-year-old shooters do things that scare the bejaysus out of me, I've no hope for children having any common sense.

bullets

My Boss was telling me a story lately about his Brother who lives in Boston
where he was having a Parent/Son day out with the Local School Kids.
He was shocked that part of the days activities involved the Kiddies being trained
to shoot.

One of the Boss'es Boss'es told me once that given the chance he would deny me the
pleasure of being allowed to shoot or own a gun. He had mentioned he used to have
a gun years back and had it locked in a safe and had the bolt and ammo seperately
locked and somehow one of his Kids mananaged to open the safer and assembe the
gun.

I reckon myself tis no good just having the security at home if yer kids are
the ones that are likely be the ones that manage to access the guns.
Its better to Educate them first on safety then tell him not too touch the things
rather than wait for a time your not home where they get too curious and decide
to show some of Dads cools stuff to their friends and possibly get hurt.

I know from when I was a Child I was the little Brat that would find all of my
fathers hiding places for his stuff. And as a kid I did some stupid things
like Cutting up Live Rounds with a hacksaw to get the powder.
Opening Live Shotgun shells to get the pellets, messing about with old flint lock
wall hangers and cutting the heads of matches off and loading the muzzle which
resulted in some powder burned fingers!

I can imagine if I had kids I would not want them doing the same kinda things
I did.

~B

Bananaman

Ideally the kids will not know you even have safes but once they are old enough, I have to agree with Sparks, they will find a way.

If there are kids about I think it is prudent to "break" the gun. i.e. make it not a gun.

Take some part out of the gun before you store it so that if they do, by some unforeseen miracle, get a hold of it, it is not a firearm.

Maybe this is a bit OT but it will negate the problem. if they actually managed to get into the safe, get the gun, retrieve the part and re-assemble it, then get into the ammo safe aswell then they probably know what they're doing.

My own view is that this is a good idea in principle so that if "anyone" ever manages to get into the safe they don't get their hands on a firearm.

Sparks

On the safes issue, by the way, you can now get biometric locks for safes. Got my folks and my sister gifts of fingerprint-scanning safes from Woodies this christmas (this was not long after the burglary of the family home) and they didn't set me back enormously - little over a hundred euro for a safe that'd hold an IZH air pistol (and thus just about any centerfire pistol going) or a rifle bolt and a fair bit of ammo.

Vegeta

Bananaman wrote:

Maybe this is a bit OT but it will negate the problem. if they actually managed to get into the safe, get the gun, retrieve the part and re-assemble it, then get into the ammo safe aswell then they probably know what they're doing.

My own view is that this is a good idea in principle so that if "anyone" ever manages to get into the safe they don't get their hands on a firearm.

completely agree here. If a kid manages to break into 2 safes, when only 1 parent has the key/code/fingerprint and assemble the firearm then this is not secure storage and the parent has been lazy.

as bullets says though education is also important so kids realise the dangers involved.

maglite

being young enough to still be considered a kid (almost)

i can say with certanty any child will find things you hide

if you start with there toy guns and move up from there
ie dont point the gun at people.....

then show them the gun so it is not a mystery,,, maybe see it being shot or shot it(*of course you will have to travel to a forign country or something*) that will depend on age of child

Clare gunner

One of the Boss'es Boss'es told me once that given the chance he would deny me the
pleasure of being allowed to shoot or own a gun. He had mentioned he used to have
a gun years back and had it locked in a safe and had the bolt and ammo seperately
locked and somehow one of his Kids mananaged to open the safer and assembe the
gun.

Why??Because of his incompetance he/she would disallow anyone else from owning somthing??Great person to be in charge of your livlyhood.:eek:

I reckon myself tis no good just having the security at home if yer kids are
the ones that are likely be the ones that manage to access the guns.
Its better to Educate them first on safety then tell him not too touch the things
rather than wait for a time your not home where they get too curious and decide
to show some of Dads cools stuff to their friends and possibly get hurt.

I know from when I was a Child I was the little Brat that would find all of my
fathers hiding places for his stuff. And as a kid I did some stupid things
like Cutting up Live Rounds with a hacksaw to get the powder.
Opening Live Shotgun shells to get the pellets, messing about with old flint lock
wall hangers and cutting the heads of matches off and loading the muzzle which
resulted in some powder burned fingers!

So did I and learned from it.:D Using BP from firecrackers in old guns isnt very clever.

I can imagine if I had kids I would not want them doing the same kinda things
I did.

But you cant stop them either,it is part of growing up.Look,it seems to be one thing is missing here is responsible parenting andthe "hide it away from them is best attidude".Somthing that we should really lose here In Ireland .

Just an Example; in Europe it is a major social gaffe to be blotto drunk in public or company.Here it is part of the sound man/girl culture to be legless for most of the weekend.Alot of this comes back to how we teach our kids to drink."Dont you dare drink while you are in this house.C'mon your kid brother is making his communion and taking the pledge,and we will be celebrating down in the pub!!!" Do you see where I am coming at?
We do everything surreptiously and then act amazed when our kids go and do stupid things.
Ditto for guns,of course the kids will explore and find your hidden gun down in the the sock drawer or whereever.But I defy anyone who has a kid who can crack your gunsafe and seperate ammo box,assemble and load the gun and you as the responsible adult have the keys???So do you leave your carkeys lying sloppily around where your teen son could swipe them and go joyriding,or anyone could help themselves to them???Of course not![hopefully]
So why is it a big deal to secure your gunsafe keys properly as well??

Not being a parent,but having been brought up around guns from the word go,I remember how I was taught firearms saftey. 4/6 Do not touch if you dont want a hideing. 6/8 you can come out shooting,and shoot the 22 with your dad.6/10 you can shoot the "big guns" free hand if you can hold them and under parental supervision.
10 you can shoot alone and keep in your own room your single shot 410.Dad keeps the ammo.You can clean Dads guns,and go hunting.Once you have proven yourself competant in firearms saftey and hunting saftey to dad,granddad and uncle who are all hunters and gun owners
14,you can use Dads rifle and shotgun,16 apply for your first liscense, 18 use your dads guns whenever you please on the property.By that stage I was pretty much running the farm and estate myself anyway,as well as doing my leaving cert. OK bearing in mind this was 20 odd years ago in a non PC age where giving your kid a clatter was not a mandatory death sentence.Or the BS belif that it takes a village rather than two parents to raise a child or whatever PC crap pases for modern parenting.
I am glad to say of my parents ;it worked.I can see the modern parents amongst you,holding your faces in aghastness:D :eek: .
But ask yourselves this; at any of the ages I mentioned,would YOU trust your kids to do the things I had ,or the responsibility I had?If the answer is no,then ask yourself is your parenting plan in order?If you will give your kid at 16 a car[thousand times more dangerous and likely to kill themselves with than a gun] why would you not entrust them to learn and be responsible around a gun??

Two things I think you need with kids and guns.Disipline and trust.Trust that they will not betray the trust you show them by giving them as appropriate,the use of firearms,and disipline on how to use them and that they will have full knowledge what will happen to them if they should ever betray that thrust.
It is ironic.We spend all this time debating how to make things secure for our kids and liscensing this and restricting that.Yet the only liscense you do not need is the one to have kids or a training course in being a parent.Proably the two things that SHOULD be liscensed above all else.:rolleyes:

chem

Hi all,

Good speach CG im with you on that one. The most important lession ive larned over the years is "common sense is not all that common" both with young and old.

DJKH

http://www.nssf.org/lit/FRH.pdf

Hi Folks

Try this link, it is the NSSF Firearms Responsibility for Home owners phamplet, as the alst poster said common sense>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Regards
A Firearms owner Parent

PS YOU would lock away a chain saw from your teenager!!!!

Quillo

Age appropriate access and education is absolutely your best bet.

Whether its guns, tools, knives, alcohol... whatever. Banning things or hiding them away just increases curiosity.

Sparks

Of course, the other scenario is when there are children other than your own in the house, at which point having everything securely locked away is just about the only responsible thing you can do.

Clare gunner

OR tell the parents of said kids that you do keep firearms and other dangerous items in your house and you would be obliged that they keep their little darlings under proper parental control.:) Lest they be bitten Sid your pet cobra.:)

babybundy

i was talking to a buddy last night and he was saying he would love to get a rifle but wouldnt cause of the kids to young and loopy but would he be entitled to store it in my gun safe as there is no young kids in my house

Sparks

Not very likely that the gardai would accept that bb, since you'd have access to a firearm you had no licence for.
Now, if you both got a licence for it, that might be a different story.

babybundy

can 2 people licence the one weapon

civdef

Yes, no problem.

Sparks

Yup, any number of people can licence the one firearm.

Rovi

babybundy wrote:

can 2 people licence the one weapon

<pedant mode>
Here in Ireland, two (or more) people can certainly licence the one Sporting Firearm.
</pedant mode>



edited to add-
Dammit, Sparks beat me to it! :rolleyes:

babybundy

that may work out better nice one