advice re access

cath00

I'm hoping someone might have experience of a similar situation as mine. I've also posted on the Legal board.

I'm divorced from my ex wife a few months now. Our breakup was bitter and she made it clear that she hates me and never wants to see me. We have a 4 year old son and access has always been difficult with my ex not being there when I called or saying she wasn't going to be there. She then moved house and changed her phone number and I had to try and find her. She would occasionally being our son to meet me in aneutral place but most of the time I'm standing at the front door with him.

I went to a solicitor and via letters i got access for a few hours every w/e untill my son is used to the idea. The problem is he won't leave the house with me. He throwa tantrums and tells me he hates me and he's not coming with me. My ex is no help at all, she won't encourage him and doesn't try and stop him from shouting at me to go away. She blames me for upsetting him and tells me it's my fault. I believe she only agreed to the access because she she had to give me access and is now hoping I'll give up because my son won't come with me.
This has been going on for almost a year and it's getting worse. She told me to go away for a few years and he might want to know me when he's older!!!
I have a 13 year old daughter from another relationship so I know that children are moulded by their parents. I believe if she gently persauded him that he would come with me. He won't say anything to me except "go away". I've tried EVRYTHING. Nothing is working.
Has anybody any advice??? I posted on the Legal board to see if I could legally get someone professional involved such as a psychologist because I don't think my son should be so agressive. i think he's feelings stem from something he's hering/being told.

Any advice greatly appreciated..

Kildrought

Unfortunately, no amount of laws will turn a poor parent into a good one.

Can I ask you a few questions first and then I might be able to come up with some suggestions?

Since your divorce is in place, I take it you have been separated almost since your son was born? How did you manage when he was baby? Is it only in the last 12 months that he has refused to see you?

cath00

Hello Kildrought,

Yes we seperated when he was just 3 months old. There was a period of 2 months then when my ex did not allow me to see him at all. After our seperation and maintenance agreements were finalised I called to see him every Saturday. I would ring up on a Thursday or Friday to arrange when I could call to see him and there would ALWAYS be an excuse why I couldn't call or he wouldn't be there because he was in his nannys or aunties or something. On average I got to see him about once a month properly.
My ex moved house and changed phone numbers and it took me just over 4 months to find her.
I was never allowed to take him away, I always had to call and stand at the front door talking to him. Occasionally my ex would bring him to meet me at the park etc. and I would have about 20 mins play time with him.

As he got a bit older he was allowed to come to the shop with me or come out for a game of football but I still wasn't getting enough time or regular access. When I started to push it with his mother things got really bad. They got even worse when I initiated divorce proceedings. Whenever I try to talk to him about why he has these feelings he wont answer, he just keeps saying go away.
I've tried to talk to his mother and I've asked her what is she doing to try and explain everything to him but she will never answer me, she tells me to leave him alone.
I really don't know what to do. Friends and family don't realise how difficult it is every time I go to see him.

Kildrought

Do you think it might be possible (even if it takes a very long time) to re-build a relationship with your former wife? I don't mean in the sense of resuming your marriage I mean to a point where some communication might take place?

Can you present your wish to see your son in a way that will seem more helpful from your former wife's perspective e.g. take/collect him from school/activities or whatever? If she's working, would you be in a position to mind him one or two afternoons?

For now, I'd agree that you won't leave the house if he doesn't want to....can you bring along some games to play, would he kick a football w. you in the back garden?

cath00

Yes I,ve tried the football. I bought him a quad for xmas and I still try to get him to bring it out. I did get into a habit of bringing gifts or toys out with me but when i would arrive with no gift he wouldnt come to the door unless I had something for him. I've tried the Circus, the cinema, swimming, everything.

His mother doesn't work. I have tried talking with her and telling her that I could actually be a help but she always tells me I'm a nuisance and I could never be anything else but.

I guess I'll have to trudge on. I'll keep seeing him anyway but it's so dificult.

Kildrought

By quad do you mean a petrol driven 4 wheeled bike?

Be wary of expensive gifts, or even the aspect of having to have something in your hands everytime you turn up. As you've found it doesn't really work.

When I say game, I mean something as simple as snakes & ladders; bring it along, sit down on the living room floor & play - don't leave it there, bring it back with you the next time (or another game or jigsaw, whatever you think he will like). Keep your time short and frequent for now.

He will be starting school soon so see if you can join the parents association and help out with fund-raising and the like. You will get to know other parents and also keep in touch w. what is going on (school plays etc.,). Ask the school to let you have a separate parent-teacher meeting, if you feel that you can't do it together with your former wife. As a courtesy be sure and talk to her about this first.

The one thing you need to keep in mind is that you can't change other people, you can however change your response.

cath00

Thanks for the advice Kildrought. It was the 4 wheel petrol version! I'm going to see him tomorrow so I will bring a game with me that I feel he would enjoy. It will have to be something we can play at the front door because that's as far as I'm allowed.
I do know already which school he is going to so I will try and talk to his mother also about me getting involved. She won't listen but we'll see how it goes.
Thanks

Kildrought

Good luck!

Don't forget you can also send off a card/letter/postcard to him every now and again - doesn't have to be anything elaborate, just a cartoon drawing or a picture you think he might like or a comic, anything - it says you are thinking of him.

There's a very interesting post on another thread (Custody case) from a user called sonners - well worth reading.

K-9

My God Cath00 - This is terrible. My advice would be to go to court. Will be tough for you and your son but best in the long run. Your ex is not giving you and your son your own time to bond (so American, I know) and actually have a proper relationship with him.

Was it agreed between the solicitor's that there was going to be supervised access? If that is the case a court would only grant this in extreme circumstances.

I don't personally agree with courts for family law except in extreme cases. To me this is an extreme case. U do not have any alone time with your son. If this persists resentment on every side is going to grow. Playing games at the door is not going to help. Parent/teacher meetings is not going to help your son developing a relationship with you! Though it is still a good idea.

The problem here is that u never have had are or never going to have a relationship with your son if this persists. U have to get out of an environment where the mother is supervising u when you's are together. This is not normal. U are entitled to your own time with your son with no influence from his mother. A man would not be let get away with this behaviour!

U need to go to a judge. Explain the situation as well as u can and try and get quality time with your son. How you can do this considering the level of parental alienation that is there is going to be very difficult and sensitive. Your ex needs a serious wake up call about what she is doing to her son. By the sounds of it she is not the type of person who can be advised on things. Sometimes an external influence is best.

I know u are very worried about the damage this is causing to your son. If nothing is done the damage is going to get far worse. Mediation or reasoning have not worked up to now.Sometimes you have to be tough to be nice!

Kildrought

i got access for a few hours every w/e untill my son is used to the idea. The problem is he won't leave the house with me

The thing is Seanies32, the OP has agreement to access - albeit not the best, it is a start. His former wife has already moved and failed to provide him with details, has made it clear (to my view) that she will not participate in the process. Whilst a court order can be obtained - are you really going to drag a 4 yr old out of the house kicking & screaming whilst you wave a court order?

Just as an aside, can I ask you, Cath00, did you talk to your former wife before you bought the quad bike? (I've never priced them so don't know for sure, but I would guess they are pretty expenisve aren't they?)

Parent/teacher meetings is not going to help your son developing a relationship with you!

I disagree, knowing what's going on in your child's life is a key part of development of a relationship. As is participating in helping out at school w. fund-raising, sports coaching, school play etc., all parents do it at one level or another. Non-resident parents most often don't but there is no reason why they can't.

Sorry don't know what's going on w. my posts - this was supposed to be added to the previous one!

K-9

Kildrought wrote:

The thing is Seanies32, the OP has agreement to access - albeit not the best, it is a start. His former wife has already moved and failed to provide him with details, has made it clear (to my view) that she will not participate in the process. Whilst a court order can be obtained - are you really going to drag a 4 yr old out of the house kicking & screaming whilst you wave a court order?

Agreed, so what is your advice? As you say she has made it clear that she will not participate in the process. Cath 00 needs to go to the court first so that the judge will order the access (unsupervised) whether she agrees or not. The point needs to be made by an independent individual, in the childs best interest, that what she agrees to or not doesn't matter. It is the mother as you say who is uncooperative. How much more alienation is needed in a situation like this?

As to how this access is arrived at, I would not be qualified to advise on. I think some advice from a child psychologist or social worker is seriously needed here. This is a case where a child has been manipulated to an extreme. Any mother who tells the father that he is a nuisance and is not needed cannot be talked to. Cath 00, u where married. U have guardianship rights. Do not talk to your child's mother about the parent teacher meetings. By the sounds of it she will never agree to it and will probably make matters worse. Next things she will try and alienate teachers and parents against you. Have been there. Write to the school and state your position. If u are a guardian of the child they cannot refuse seperate meetings, copies of correspondence etc.

U are not going to get proper access and bonding time unless u go to the courts. Of course nobody wants to drag a child kicking and screaming to see the father. The child needs to see his father in a seperate environment from the mother. It is the uncooperative mother who is causing the problem. How u go about that Cath 00 requires professional advice. If the courts are serving the child's best interest they would provide u with advice and resources to help in a situation like this. They should help u in the best interest of the child. Keep fighting for your child who needs a father.

cath00

I did speak to his mother about the Quad yes. I had originally asked her what to get him from santy but she kept saying she didn't know. I'm big into motocross bikes and he used to be very interested in my stories about my motocross bikes. I got him a Quad so we could build on a comoon interest together, maybe he would come out on it with me, but this didn't happen. I told his mother I was getting it but she didn't care. (I did get him the protective gear also!!) They are very expensive, but I felt at the time it was worth it, I feel anything is worth it if it helps the situation.

I tried to speak to my ex at the w/e about the school thing etc. She wouldn't even entertain the thought. I know when to stop so I just left it be. But this morning I rang the school and asked them to send me out a copy of their policies on separated parents so I can work on this with the school.
I've also been looking into evening or w/e hobbies for him such as swimming lessons. He adores swimming but his mother can't swim. I brought a game with me and he was going to play it with me but by the time I got him to come round to the idea, my time was up. I will bring it again next week though as it was the best response I had got from him in a couple of months.

I have a 13 year daughter from a previous relationship. My sons mother would not allow her out to see him with me but my solicitor made sure that she was included in my visits.
We went to Florida last October so next w/e I'm going to bring out pics of our holiday and show him, try and include him.

K-9

The Quad wouldn't have been my choice for a 4 yr old but I can see from your post why u bought it. I find things like that, got an electric one for my wee boy when he was 4, are a big waste of money if they're not really into them. Still as your son gets older he may get into them.

I was thinking you would get that reaction about the school etc. Just go on ahead anyway. You are entitled to be involved in his life. The swimming might be a good idea too. He probably will really want to go if he is into it and your ex shouldn't have a problem with it! fingers crossed. Would be a good way of getting time with him.

I would still go to court to get proper access sorted out. Your ex needs to know that u can have access to your son without her being there and that she has no control over it. Just keep doing fun things with him and maybe he will really want to go with u despite what his mother tells him. U really need to get time with your wee boy without this influence from his mother. When he's older he will start seeing what really is happening for himself.