EL Education

Magic Pips

Ok i post here sporadically about the EL, so bear with me when i ask what to those in the know might be stupid questions...

A mate of mine (Bohs fan) sent me on this link... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrzTpaa6tqw

wtf?? how is this allowed to go on?:mad:

This is Bohs & Rovers fans fighting outside Hill 16, not exactly an enticement to come along to EL football (apologies if this is an unfair generalisation)

Zebra3

Magic Pips wrote:

wtf?? how is this allowed to go on?:mad:

What do you mean how is it allowed go on?

A fight like that away from the ground is mainly a law and order issue.

Of course the clubs could have staged an investigation and tried to ban (if they weren't already) some of those people from their grounds.

Nothing compared to the violence at games in Britain, not that that excuses it.

bohsman

No, this is scumbags fighting outside the Hill16 pub. Bohs and Rovers fans were in and around Tolka Park, Fagans and Kennedys as there was a match about to kick off.

therecklessone

Zebra3 wrote:

Nothing compared to the violence at games in Britain

Actually its very similar to events in the UK...except for the police response, in Britain a few Black Maria's would have shown up sharpish, CCTV footage requested and ringleaders identified/arrested etc. In Ireland the response is more along the lines of "f*ck dis Seamus, we'll wait here until they've bate the shoite out of each other"

Zebra3

therecklessone wrote:

Actually its very similar to events in the UK

What I meant was it's very much an isolated incident compared to the amount of incidents at games in Britain, even allowing for the difference in numbers.

_blank_

Is there actually ANY shred of evidence in that short clip to associate these obvious scumbags with either of the clubs mentioned?

No?

Didn't think so.

This is not a football thing.

It took place away from a football ground.

Magic Pips

This isnt a court of law, im just saying that if i was a father i wouldnt be bringing my kids to games with the chance of that happening. I'm not blaming either club, i think the way to go is CCTV and a garda presence - i understand the limited resources etc. The point im making is - regardless of proof - these guys are using an EL football event as meeting point.

I'm just trying to gain a bit more insight into the EL, how often is there trouble in the grounds/directly outside?

_blank_

Take a closer look at the video then, it's not actually AT a game.

I can see no grass, stands or team colours on show.

The Hill Sixteen is a good distance from Tolka and Dalymount, so it's not as if it's even near a match.

As was said earlier, the fans of football were actually at the match venue, NOT acting the scumbag throwing beer kegs around the street.

I haven't ever experienced that level of violence inside a football ground in Ireland.

KdjaCL

It was organised on Bebo(lol) and was before (5:30 according to the barman who was interviewed) the Cup game, a pre arranged meet as is done in nearly all EPL clubs every week. There were no arrests as the police were at the game ensuring everyone theres safety.



kdjac

gimmick

Magic Pips wrote:

i wouldnt be bringing my kids to games with the chance of that happening. The point im making is - regardless of proof - these guys are using an EL football event as meeting point.

To be fair that is a pretty silly statement. Fight happen the whole time all over Dublin City/Cork City etc ect etc. The muppets have grudges against each other as they wear different coloured shirts. Would you bring your kids to a pub of a sanday afternoon to watch Liverpool and Man U? There could be trouble there also.

Magic Pips wrote:

I'm just trying to gain a bit more insight into the EL, how often is there trouble in the grounds/directly outside?

Very very rarely is the short and truthful answer there.

therecklessone

Zebra3 wrote:

What I meant was it's very much an isolated incident compared to the amount of incidents at games in Britain, even allowing for the difference in numbers.

But seems to be on the increase over here, no? From what I can see it is.

applehunter

In the grand scheme of things, agro like this is very rare.

Isolated incidents happen in all sports.

_blank_

Even Figure Skating
:eek:

OMG!1!!!11!!elevem!one!!1!

Tehy kill each otherz in SKATING - my kidz cannot watch thAt.

Zebra3

therecklessone wrote:

But seems to be on the increase over here, no? From what I can see it is.

I don't think it is on the increae. Bohs-Rovers has been a dodgy game for a long time and I think both clubs have suffered financially as a result. The internet simply brings events like that row out into the open whereas in the nineties it would have gone largely unnoticed.

Magic Pips wrote:

I'm not blaming either club, i think the way to go is CCTV and a garda presence - i understand the limited resources etc.

You want a Garda presence at every pub within a two mile radius of a Bohs-Rovers game?

therecklessone

Zebra3 wrote:

I don't think it is on the increae. Bohs-Rovers has been a dodgy game for a long time and I think both clubs have suffered financially as a result.

Rovers and Dundalk? Bohs Yoof and the Schooligans? Schooligans chucking golf balls at Derry City and Cork City fans (fellow Spurs fan who travels with Cork City regularly was witness to that)

Out of little acorns? For all that, I've never felt threatened or unsafe at an EL game.

Zebra3 wrote:

You want a Garda presence at every pub within a two mile radius of a Bohs-Rovers game?

Proactive policing of flashpoint games would ideally see mobile Garda patrols ready to respond to incidents, and some attempt to gather intelligence on potential trouble beforehand (FFS, bebo!)

John_C

In my ten years following the league I've never seen an incident of crowd violence.

SectionF

Those are not Bohs fans, the event you raise was several months ago, it happened miles from a football ground, and I don't for a minute buy your tiny-voiced, faux-naive 'are all eL fans like that?' charade.
You're either on a wind-up or you are looking for an excuse not to go to football.
My kids have never felt threatened at a football match. The worst that has ever happened was that they were called 'scum' by some bitter, defeated Bray fans, and to be honest I think they quite enjoyed that.
PS: apology accepted

super_furry

therecklessone wrote:

But seems to be on the increase over here, no? From what I can see it is.

Yes, it's increased 100%. From zero recorded instances, to one, which is pretty tenuous. Much worse stuff goes on in the Premiership week in, week out. Trust me, if you think that's bad you really don't want to be anywhere near the forecourt after a Liverpool v United game at Old Trafford.

therecklessone

super_furry wrote:

Yes, it's increased 100%. From zero recorded instances, to one, which is pretty tenuous.

Emmm, there's been more than incidents than a youtube video of a row outside a pub...

super_furry wrote:

Much worse stuff goes on in the Premiership week in, week out. Trust me, if you think that's bad you really don't want to be anywhere near the forecourt after a Liverpool v United game at Old Trafford.

I've been to 43 games in England in the last 18 months. I've received a police escort at Leicester, witnessed the police escort for West Ham's visit to Spurs last season...I was in the Holloway pub before the 2nd leg of the Carling Cup in January when it kicked off between Spurs and Arsenal, and was on the corner of Park Lane and the High Road the week previously when a few Arsenal tried to get through their escort and were met with bottles and fists.

I know what hooliganism looks like.

_blank_

therecklessone wrote:

Emmm, there's been more than incidents than a youtube video of a row outside a pub...

Will you tell us about them?

therecklessone

seansouth wrote:

Will you tell us about them?

Why were Rovers chucked out of Richmond Park?

Why were a number of Bohs fans banned from the FAI Cup fixture with Rovers last season? link Isn't Bohs-Rovers a falshpoint game no matter what season?

Why was a director of Rovers arrested in Limerick for a confrontation with Gardai? (same link as above)

What about the trouble outside Oriel Park last May after Rovers beat Dundalk? link

Wasn't there a number of "meet-ups" between Shels and Bohs "yoof" during last season in the Drumcondra area?

SectionF

therecklessone wrote:

Why were Rovers chucked out of Richmond Park?

Why were a number of Bohs fans banned from the FAI Cup fixture with Rovers last season? link Isn't Bohs-Rovers a falshpoint game no matter what season?

Why was a director of Rovers arrested in Limerick for a confrontation with Gardai? (same link as above)

What about the trouble outside Oriel Park last May after Rovers beat Dundalk? link

Wasn't there a number of "meet-ups" between Shels and Bohs "yoof" during last season in the Drumcondra area?

Quite a study. Most, if not all, of that, is outside the ken of the vast majority of eL supporters. The only danger I have ever experienced directly at a football ground was when on a bus that was stoned outside Anfield.

Magic Pips

1st of all to clear a few things up:

- I don't have kids, and i've never been to an EL game

- If you pay attention to what this thread is called i'm looking for info about the EL, what happens in and around grounds.

About half the EL heads that have replied have shown me the silly (Edit not to offend)overly defensive side of EL support in Ireland. I'm from the northside so will be going to Bohs games this season, i'm a football fan, 26 but was never exposed to EL football. I don't see why we need to spend as much money as we do supporting Eng Prem teams - discussion on this is a whole new topic - I'm just trying to illustrate where my allegences lie.

No doubt i'll receive my toss being spouted by some high count posters now, no problem, i just hope you don't represent the majority of EL supporters.

therecklessone

SectionF wrote:

Quite a study. Most, if not all, of that, is outside the ken of the vast majority of eL supporters.

The majority of all football-related violence is outside the ken of supporters, I had never witnessed physical confrontation until this season in the UK, but then I travelled on my own quite a bit last year and tended to get in and out quick enough.

Its still football-related, whether it happens in/around the ground, or at a pub two miles down the road.

super_furry

You're initial post was inflamatory insinuating that this was a norm at eircom League games. You asked 'how is this allowed to go on?', people replied that it was a social matter, not a footballing one and now you're throwing about insults like 'dickheads.'

Seems straight forward to me.

Magic Pips

super_furry wrote:

You're initial post was inflamatory insinuating that this was a norm at eircom League games. You asked 'how is this allowed to go on?', people replied that it was a social matter, not a footballing one and now you're throwing about insults like 'dickheads.'

Seems straight forward to me.

I apologise if i offend you, i was using it to explain an action (of being overly defensive) not a person.

I don't buy that it's simply a social one, as it is associated with the EL. I'll go to a few games and make up my own mind. Thanks for the great responses

KdjaCL

It is a problem and mainly within the 2 clubs both in the above video. All clubs have an element attached to them but the 2 above clubs (odd how their fans post rightesously about it not being at a game) have the biggest problem.

BUT in saying that its at its worst when they play each other, never had any issue when we played Bohs (even when we shared the shed end). Cant say the same about Rovers but if you see 100 scumbags throwing **** and being surrounded by police on horseback, its generally in your best interest to move in the opposite direction. So your safety is mainly based on common sense.


kdjac

GuanYin

Dear lord.

Look, in order for crowd violence to occur, you need a crowd. That doesn't mean the crowd are violent, just that a couple of idiots started a rucus and drew in some onlookers or overzealous scumbags looking to get involved.

This can and does happen ANYWHERE you get a crowd. It doesn't take a sport for it to happen, although often you'll get altercations due to club associations of the offenders..but believe me, if they weren't "supporting" those clubs, they'd be fighting over some other reason or affiliation.

Magic Pips

KdjaCL wrote:

talks sense

kdjac

Cheers for the insight

SectionF

KdjaCL wrote:

odd how their fans post rightesously about it not being at a game
kdjac

It wasn't at a game. It wasn't within an ass's roar of a game.
I don't see what's 'righteous' about providing some factual information, and some sense of proportion, something sorely lacking in these discussions.

KdjaCL

SectionF wrote:

It wasn't at a game. It wasn't within an ass's roar of a game.
I don't see what's 'righteous' about providing some factual information, and some sense of proportion, something sorely lacking in these discussions.

So it wasnt a pre organised meet between Bohs and Rovers fans? That is the point and it is fact. It was fans of both teams and it was organised and it will happen probably 3 times this season. Pats have a problem with some fans, i have no problems admitting that im just glad it hasnt moved up to the scale of the above with organised "meets".

kdjac

Bateman

KdjaCL wrote:

It was organised on Bebo(lol) and was before (5:30 according to the barman who was interviewed) the Cup game, a pre arranged meet as is done in nearly all EPL clubs every week. There were no arrests as the police were at the game ensuring everyone theres safety.
kdjac

Happened at 7:05pm; there were 5 arrests; Bebo? :rolleyes:

Bateman

KdjaCL wrote:

Pats have a problem with some fans, i have no problems admitting that im just glad it hasnt moved up to the scale of the above with organised "meets".

But can you say in point of fact that anyone involved in the Hill16 fight sustained more serious injuries than the Cork fan who had his head split open by rock-throwing Ballyer youth in Richmond last season?

KdjaCL

Bateman wrote:

But can you say in point of fact that anyone involved in the Hill16 fight sustained more serious injuries than the Cork fan who had his head split open by rock-throwing Ballyer youth in Richmond last season?

Do you know the injuries from the hill16 fight? I do know there was another incident in Richmond were a kid pulled a knife on another kid (both pats fans) and was beaten to a pulp by 2 Gardai with batons. That would be 2 incidents involving 2 people last season. Porbably about the same as the last few seasons, as i said it is a problem and it is a growing trend. For us its small but being a small club probably keeps the ratio or idiot to normal person.

Another trend seems to be following the Rovers "wasnt us, didnt happen, US soldiers are not here".

Bebo

Care to post the correct website it was on?



kdjac

Bateman

KdjaCL wrote:

Care to post the correct website it was on?

kdjac

None as far as I know. Might have been talked out afterwards by spotty tracksuit wearing primary school kids who were not present though.

SectionF

Great PR KdjaCL. Keep it up.
Sure who wants to know about the football and the real fans anyway?

KdjaCL

SectionF wrote:

Great PR KdjaCL. Keep it up.
Sure who wants to know about the football and the real fans anyway?

Club folds mid season.
Another club denied licence and killed.
The champions relegated and on the brink of extinction with 1 player registered.
Clubs docked points for fielding ineglible players.
Clubs not docked points for above.
Organised hooligans meet outside pub and appear in every paper.
League possible to finish in high court.
Director of a club convicted of rioting.
.....im sure theres more.


You couldnt make **** up in Dream Team ffs.

Now lets get everyone to go and watch it for the "football".


kdjac

Magic Pips

I want to know the good and the bad, thats why i asked. I have spent money on Eng prem league stuff, and will do again - as i like football, i'll also spend money on Spanish football and possible italian this year. But my team i support will be Bohs, geography decides that! Maybe in a couple of years i'll work in the FAI:rolleyes:

Bateman

Magic Pips wrote:

I want to know the good and the bad, thats why i asked. I have spent money on Eng prem league stuff, and will do again - as i like football, i'll also spend money on Spanish football and possible italian this year. But my team i support will be Bohs, geography decides that! Maybe in a couple of years i'll work in the FAI:rolleyes:

If you want to work for the FAI don't decide to become a Bohs fan. We're not flavour of the month in Merrion Square these days. :cool:

Magic Pips

haha, well i'm from bayside so they're my local team! why arent they flavour of the month? do tell! :rolleyes:

Bateman

Magic Pips wrote:

haha, well i'm from bayside so they're my local team! why arent they flavour of the month? do tell! :rolleyes:

They are aware that it was us (me, specifically) that brought the Delaney Out banner to San Marino. They are aware of some foot.ie members (not specifically Bohs fans) who are planning anti-Delaney material for the Wales game, and are witholding some fans' ticket allocations.

SectionF

They're also a bit miffed that we didn't buy their genius plan to donate half of Dalymount Park to Shelbourne.