Clare/Limerick/Tipp new "recommendations"!

Kramer

Just been speaking to a local sergeant after being told of a document issued to the above districts recently. He didn't confirm/deny such a document.

The gist of the document, I gather, is along the lines of:

Monitored alarms required with extra sensor on gun safe itself......
Inspections of gun safes in situ......
etc.

Now, he did tell me that he'd require proof of a monitored alarm system & need to check safe installation etc. where more than one rifle is/will be held so it does look like such a document was issued.

All this because of my application for a .223 cert, actually, a variation from a .243 :eek: .

It would seem even existing firearm certificate holders are in for a rude awakening, come renewal time. This, even before the full enactment of CJB '06 :eek: .

Should have kept my .243

triskell

Should have kept my .243 [/QUOTE]
like you siad i don't think it would matter even if you still had the 243 i think this is going to effect everybody from 1st of august, the rumblings that i have heard are if you got a firearm you are gonna have to bring your security up to a standard that they decide or theres going to be issues with the issuing of licences.
as to the bit about about motion sensors on safe i think they can also be on the specific room(thats what CPO wanted from me) but there adamant about monitoring by a third party company(not to your own phone only)

bullets

On Monday I will be waiting I think 6 weeks with no word
yet about my cert coming through yet.
Going ringing my FO Monday to see if theres a problem but I know
he wont have any visability on what the status is.

The FO did ring a good while back saying his super was asking
for about a monitored alarm and safe in the car but my application
was only for a rimfire .17. It may have had something to do with

Of course I am left in the dark with regards to how the super
reacted when I told the FO I had no alarm in the house and that
I did not have a safe in the car (not my car!) So they could easily
just leave me waiting and waiting and waiting.

~B

Sparks

So they could easily just leave me waiting and waiting and waiting.

If you're waiting for more than 3 months, it's deemed that you have been refused and notified, according to the new Firearms Act...

Vegeta

Sparks wrote:

If you're waiting for more than 3 months, it's deemed that you have been refused and notified, according to the new Firearms Act...

does anyone know how much of the CJA is in place. All of it, a few things from here and there, I'm confused

Vegeta

dfaf wrote:

but there adamant about monitoring by a third party company(not to your own phone only)

This is one thing that really really annoys me, doesn't the eircom monitored alarm just ring the key holder first anyway??? So you are paying them a fortune for a service you can get for a once off fee of 400 euro

Sparks

Check the sticky thread on the Firearms Act 2006 Veg.
From there (the 8th post):

Sparks wrote:

From the Commencement Order, all of the firearms Act amendments are now in force except those in sections 28 (firearms training certs), 30 (firearms cert form), 32 (granting firearms certs), 33 (authorising firearms ranges and clubs), 38 (firearms dealer registration) and 40 (reloading) from the CJB; so yes, airsoft pistols are now toys not firearms and so on. And there's nothing in there on timetables for those sections coming into force. The DoJ says Nov.1st though.

There have been other commencement orders since then, but none of them relate to our area.

Rovi

Vegeta wrote:

This is one thing that really really annoys me, doesn't the eircom monitored alarm just ring the key holder first anyway??? So you are paying them a fortune for a service you can get for a once off fee of 400 euro

I'm with a different security company, but I'm pretty sure Eircom Phonewatch work the same way (open to correction if anyone knows better/different):
If one alarm sensor is activated, they contact the designated key holders.
If two sensors or a panic button are activated, they immediately contact the Gardai.

Anyone breaching a gun safe in my house will have made their way through three sensors, so I'd be expecting to see the ERU/ARW/whoever, etc, arrive in smart order. :rolleyes:

Vegeta

Rovi wrote:

I'm with a different security company, but I'm pretty sure Eircom Phonewatch work the same way (open to correction if anyone knows better/different):
If one alarm sensor is activated, they contact the designated key holders.
If two sensors or a panic button are activated, they immediately contact the Gardai.

Anyone breaching a gun safe in my house will have made their way through three sensors, so I'd be expecting to see the ERU/ARW/whoever, etc, arrive in smart order. :rolleyes:

Have 2 sensors ever gone off before? If so what kind of response time did you get.

Do eircom have stats on response times?

Rovi

Vegeta wrote:

Have 2 sensors ever gone off before? If so what kind of response time did you get.

No, thank goodness, and I have no intention of setting off a false alarm to find out.
I/we occasionally set off a single sensor and if it isn't de-activated immediately, I get a phone call straight away.

civdef

The "double-knock" strategy is a Garda policy for dealing with monitoring companies to reduce callouts to false alarms, the theoru being accidental or inadvertent activation of two or more separate zoned detectors is fairly unklikely.

Vegeta

Rovi wrote:

No, thank goodness, and I have no intention of setting off a false alarm to find out.

Ah go on, see if you got value for money like*

*only a joke and I don't really mean it

Vegeta

civdef wrote:

The "double-knock" strategy is a Garda policy for dealing with monitoring companies to reduce callouts to false alarms, the theoru being accidental or inadvertent activation of two or more separate zoned detectors is fairly unklikely.

So if 2 sensors go off, is a key holder still phoned or do the Garda just go straight to your house?

Are the Garda armed if you store guns in your home? Are there armed Garda at every station in Ireland? Do the security company send unarmed civilians to check the house?

What if you live in a very rural area(thinking of building a house in one, closest garda station is 8 miles away)? Do you still have to get one(by one I mean an eircom/third party alarm, I'd prefer one that just phones me and other family members) because by the time the Garda responded the thieves could be long gone anyway?

Rovi

Vegeta wrote:

So if 2 sensors go off, is a key holder still phoned or do the Garda just go straight to your house?

In the case of the company I'm with, yes, but the Gardai are contacted first and the keyholder second. There's a password/Q&A procedure for the keyholder to verify their identity/safety, and if satisfied, the monitoring centre will then cancel the Garda call.

Vegeta wrote:

Are the Garda armed if you store guns in your home? Are there armed Garda at every station in Ireland? Do the security company send unarmed civilians to check the house?

The security company are aware of which sensors have been tripped and the ones covering the guns are specifically flagged as such, so the Gardai would be aware that the 'intrusion' involves the guns; it's up to them to decide on the level of response (armed/unarmed/leave it long enough for them to leave /etc).
The only personnel involved on the ground are the homeowner/keyholders and the Gardai. Security company patrols are a whole other level of security.

Vegeta wrote:

What if you live in a very rural area(thinking of building a house in one, closest garda station is 8 miles away)? Do you still have to get one(by one I mean an eircom/third party alarm, I'd prefer one that just phones me and other family members) because by the time the Garda responded the thieves could be long gone anyway?

AFAIK, the only monitoring the Gardai will accept for 'remote' alarm calls must be to IS:228:1997, which deals with Monitoring Centres. I'm not sure what their attitude is to 'self monitored' alarms from the point of view of satisfying the Superintendent as regards your security arrangements.

Clare gunner

Vegeta wrote:

So if 2 sensors go off, is a key holder still phoned or do the Garda just go straight to your house?

Send the key holder,to see the situation,then the KH is supposed to notify the Gardai.

Are the Garda armed if you store guns in your home? Are there armed Garda at every station in Ireland? Do the security company send unarmed civilians to check the house?

From what I gather and garda contacts.IF there are alarms at a house regd with firearms as per Eircom paperwork.Yes,they are supposed to send an armed unit.Whatever that might be at your level.However more than likely,it will be whatever first response unit can take the call and is in the area.
Only thing is,firearms theft will deffo make sure they will be out there to you quicker than most.
Keyholders,are people YOU nominate to check the premises.

What if you live in a very rural area(thinking of building a house in one, closest garda station is 8 miles away)? Do you still have to get one(by one I mean an eircom/third party alarm, I'd prefer one that just phones me and other family members) because by the time the Garda responded the thieves could be long gone anyway?

They will no doubt want one from Eircom or whomever.Only thing INMHO that using Eircom is;They cant moan and say it is an unregd company,and if anything does go wrong.YOU have a good kickback at Eircom as the recommended company by the Gardai.Again you see this goalpost moving here.It states a monitored alarm,not that it must be a moitored alarm,run by a big company,or a security company run by an ex Garda super.
It is with the response time INMHO and the set up of sending a civvie keyholder into a potentially dangerous situation,it makes no difference wether the alarm is monitored by you or a phonewatch company.It should be that when you are regd as a firearms holder,that automatically the Gardai respond with an armed unit to your addy,even before the key holder.

TIP,. you can get a "spy phone".Looks like to all intents&purposes like a mobile that is dead.leave it lying on top of your gun cabinet.If you get a call that there is an alarm going off,you activate this by calling it's nr.The phone does not ring, ligt up or anything,but it activates the speaker.You have a good idea now wether there is somone trying to crowbar their way in or not.

maglite

what arre the guards using? is it still the 9mm round?
Do they have flac jackets?

alot of poeple would have shotguns and high power rifles

if i was a guard i would take my time getting to a house if i knew some of the safes around here had been breached

the prep could have a 9mm sidearm a semi shotgun and a say a .223

i would want a fair bit of back up going up to a lonly coury lane against that treat


i would love to see a responce time for armed guards to my house if they force me to get a monitored alarm,,,, it wont be in the next 30-40 min

Clare gunner

[

QUOTE=maglite]what arre the guards using? is it still the 9mm round?

Yup,and still .38 special wadcutters in S&W revolvers.

Do they have flac jackets

?
[Cue Nelson of the Simpsons fame laugh] Ha Ha:D
Proably also nowadays in contravention of Health &Saftey rules as well.

alot of poeple would have shotguns and high power rifles

if i was a guard i would take my time getting to a house if i knew some of the safes around here had been breached

]the prep could have a 9mm sidearm a semi shotgun and a say a .223

So? You signed up to go into harms way when you swore to protect and serve.Doubly so when you signed up to do the Garda firearms course.Or was it just to stroke some machismo and get a pay rise??

i would want a fair bit of back up going up to a lonly coury lane against that treat

Take it up with your union about working conditions etc,or consider getting a desk job.It's a common grouse with all police forces in the Western world.
as for the perp having all that,having is one thing,using effectively is another.

i

would love to see a responce time for armed guards to my house if they force me to get a monitored alarm,,,, it wont be in the next 30-40 min

Indeed,but they will all feel alot happier knowing you have one, wont they?:rolleyes:

civdef

Send the key holder,to see the situation,then the KH is supposed to notify the Gardai.

Nope, on a double-knock activatin, the guards are called - by my monitoring company anyway.

17HMR

Dropped in to buy some bullets at lunchtime....
Chatting about the Gardai and this monitored alarm rumour.... guy in the shop tells me he had his panic button pressed accidentally by a kid some weeks ago. Later that day the alarm company rang him to see how quickly the cops responded as they had advised the cops within 20 seconds of the panic button being pressed. Gardai never came ! First the guy in the shop knew about the panic button being pressed was when the alarm company rang him (he worked out it was a kid that pressed it from the time the alarm occurred at).

So much for monitored alarms.... if they couldn't be bothered responding when there's an alarm at a gun shop stocking around 100 guns (including shotguns and pistols) then they're obviously not interested in preventing gun theft.

Clare gunner

17HMR,
if that is verifiable and the gun dealer is willing to report this one.It would be a good counter publicity to all this gun safe,alarm stuff we are having to do.
A good PR company could have hours of fun with this.Whats the point of going to all this expense and trouble,if the Gardai wont respond to a gun shop alarm call???

17HMR

The gun dealer has already reported to the local Crime Prevention Officer and has been assured that it will never happen again....

vcsggl

Is this legislation likley to apply to shotguns or only to rifles and handguns ? I can't imagine the average shotgun owner in rural / farming communities ever being required to have alarms, sensors etc- or can I ?????????? I had always thought that Ireland was rather more enlightened than the UK when it came to firearms legislation e.g. ownership of handguns, no insistence on approved cabinets for shotguns etc but things seem to be changing rapidly.

George