No driveway, no tax, but...

Jo King

If one is attempting to sell the car then surely it is "in use" on the public road, even if the use is confined to being a chattel for sale? How is a test drive to be taken? In any case this type of issue is too subtle for the District Court where cases involving summary motoring offences are dealt with. It would depend on the Judge on the day and most will take the side of the garda.

cormie

what if someone isn't attempting to sell though, if it's just "there"?

Wishbone, I didn't go to the garda station in person because the garda was always out on the beat and I don't think he did much station work? And the main reason.. I didn't even think of it:p

MAYPOP

cormie wrote:

I'd love to talk for myself in court! "Actually Mr. Garda, I'm not wearing a tie at all!":D

Can you go back and challenge fines? Maybe I will when I have some more disposable income/time and could afford a bigger fine if it doesn't go too well:)

Seriously, often in court, the charges will be read out, the judge will hand out whatever punishment, and you get out of there without having a chance to speak. And if you try to challenge the judge, you'll be done for contempt. The law (or execution of it) is an ass.

IrishRover

Where is it mentioned that the car was being test driven? If it was being driven then that's using it!

I see the interpretation of the term "in use" to include the sale of an unoccupied parked vehicle as very tenuous.

I'm really flabbergasted that so many people seem to think of this as being a subtle point of law. To me it's no more subtle than the distinction between "guilty" and "not guilty", and as ludicrous as confusing "guilty" and "not guilty" because there's only a three letter word preceeding the main word.

Re not getting a chance to speak, from the times I have watched district court cases, the judge has asked the defendant if the account given by the gard was true and accurate and if they said "no" he didn't ask for any further explanation, just dismissed the case. He took it as read that the defendant was not perjuring himself. He would also immediately dismiss cases where the gard would condtradict himself, fumble over what he was saying or where the gard would not have his notebook with him (and so be perhaps recalling erroneous evidence instead of reading notes taken at the time).
Of course your treatment does depend on the judge and the proximity to lunchtime

cormie

what if I wore a blonde curly wig, would he take me more seriously or less I wonder;)

Jo King

Look at section 73 of the Finance Act 1976.
"73.—(1) Where a vehicle to which this Part applies is used, parked or otherwise kept at any time in a public place, if while the vehicle is being so used, parked or kept there is not fixed to and exhibited on the vehicle in accordance with section 5 (5) of the Act of 1920 a licence which is both issued in respect of the vehicle and is for the time being in force, then the person by whom the vehicle is so used, parked or kept at the time shall be guilty of an offence, and in addition to the person aforesaid, the person (if he is not the person aforesaid) who on the day on which the offence is committed is in relation to the vehicle the relevant person shall also be guilty of an offence."

Leaving your car parked on the public road without a valid tax disc is an offence. Use does not come into it. Not alone are you committing an offence but the guards have powers to seize vehicles where the tax has not been paid.

Esel

Jo King wrote:

Leaving your car parked on the public road without a valid tax disc is an offence. Use does not come into it. Not alone are you committing an offence but the guards have powers to seize vehicles where the tax has not been paid.

But...but IrishRover said this is not so, so therefore we can ignore the law and just put our own more favourable interpretation on it! :rolleyes:

Wishbone Ash

MAYPOP wrote:

often in court, the charges will be read out, the judge will hand out whatever punishment, and you get out of there without having a chance to speak

Any time I've been in the District Courts, the judge has asked the defendent if they have anything to say in relation to the charges.

cormie wrote:

Can you go back and challenge fines?

AFAIK if you have already paid the fine then you have "accepted" it. Otherwise, if you believe it is unjustified, you should refuse to pay it and then get an opportunity to have your say in court.

Jo King

esel wrote:

But...but IrishRover said this is not so, so therefore we can ignore the law and just put our own more favourable interpretation on it! :rolleyes:

I have just quoted the section of the Finance Act which creates the offence. It refers to parked vehicles. IrishRover is talking about use only. The section puts the matter beyond doubt. Who makes the law - IrishRover or the Oireachtais? When you go to court is it the Defendant's law or the law of the Oireachtais which will be applied.

cormie

well the law in the section we have read before is very vague so it's understandable to question it. The section you have quoted clears it up.

I have a tax renewal form here and it says on the back:

Warning: The non display of a current tax disc on a motor vehicle in a public place at any time is an offence

So that's that. Although a number of gardai in the station I was trying to contact your man who gave me the ticket in said I should have a case with that, so even those in authority don't know:rolleyes:

gurramok

cormie wrote:

well the law in the section we have read before is very vague so it's understandable to question it. The section you have quoted clears it up.

Very true.
Mrs Gurramok car is now in a driveway with no tax disc.
We couldn't leave it parked on a residential street as we checked with the Gardai who said it was an offence to park it on the street with no tax(no tax paid plus no visual of disc) as its a public area hence driveway solution is ok as a driveway is private property!

Jo King

So that's that. Although a number of gardai in the station I was trying to contact your man who gave me the ticket in said I should have a case with that, so even those in authority don't know:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]


Has it occurred to you that those gardai might have wanted to have some fun at your expense watching you make an idiot of yourself in the District Court arguing about your ticket?

steveland?

Sorry to hijack... I just bought a car this morning, rang up Axa, got my insurance sorted. Have no tax because there was none when I bought it so there's nothing in the pouch thing. I put a note in the pouch with my insurance policy number which hopefully should do me over until I get my cert but I'm a bit worried about leaving it out without the tax etc...

Am I right in assuming I can't tax it until the log book is in Shannon and my insurance cert comes? It's parked accross the road from my house and I won't be driving it until it's taxed and I have my insurance cert so should this count as not being "in use"?

Also anyone know what tax should cost me on a 954cc Peugeot 106?

cormie

take your insurance details out of the windscreen steve! Your given a 10 day grace period on insurance to allow you to drive around without cert etc because you will be insured anyway. Can you not park it anywhere private? Drive way etc?

steveland?

cormie wrote:

take your insurance details out of the windscreen steve! Your given a 10 day grace period on insurance to allow you to drive around without cert etc because you will be insured anyway. Can you not park it anywhere private? Drive way etc?

Hmm, thought the policy number is on the insurance cert anyway so it wouldn't matter having it in the pouch.

No no driveway I'm afraid... just out on the road. It's not that popular a destination really as it's off any main roads so there'd be no traffic wardens or anything. May be some clampers around match days though (Drumcondra end of Glasnevin) so there may be some wardens around over the weekend.

You reckon I should take the policy number out of the window yeh?

cormie

I don't know to be honest, I forgot it's on the certs anyway:p you could always park it in DCU till you get sorted?

Mike07

Exact same situation as you and in Drumcondra too-- I am just going to leave the header from the dealer in the pouch and keep fingers crossed!!-- How long for new cert these days?

steveland?

cormie wrote:

I don't know to be honest, I forgot it's on the certs anyway:p you could always park it in DCU till you get sorted?

Heh, I can't legally drive to DCU until I get the cert

I've taken it out, just in case.

I rang up Mountjoy Garda station to find out about the legalities of driving it around. They said that I'd have ten days to produce my insurance cert which should be enough for me as it'll more than likely arrive before then. The only thing that's getting me is the tax. The Guard said that if I was stopped they'd more than likely take a practical approach and I could just give them the insurance details so they know I'm waiting for the cert to tax it but also said that traffic wardens probably wouldn't be as practical and would stick to the letter of the law for this and give me a ticket...

I really can't afford any tickets so it'll just sit there until I get all my certs in order and I'll be checking on it every 10 seconds to make sure it's still there and there's no little pieces of paper on the windscreen :P

cormie

well your breaking the law at the moment by not having it taxed so you may as well just drive it to a private parking space;) two wrongs make a right here:D

Wishbone Ash

steveland? wrote:

Also anyone know what tax should cost me on a 954cc Peugeot 106?

€151 PA

steveland? wrote:

The Guard said that if I was stopped they'd more than likely take a practical approach

Gardaí deal with this all the time and most will allow a month or more before asking further questions. It's not really the new owners fault when there are delays at Shannon and you'll have to pay the arrears (from purchase date) anyway so it's not as if you were avoiding it.