Women.. no longer ladies ?

Marksie

bluewolf wrote:

Everyone single guy I've ever met who calls themselves a 'nice guy' is a doormat and doesn't know the difference between 'nice' and 'doormat with no self respect'. They are generally rejected by women and extremely bitter.

I am a nice guy, so my girlfriends tell me!

Hmm intersting thread, someone said that women want to be more like men. One of my tantra manuals mentioned that and said it was a mistake. That women should just be who they are, the differences should celebrated.*

Bluewolf: does that bean men who are b*astards are self respecting well balanced individuals who get al the women and are the happiest alive? . That better not leak into PI!!!!!!!


* and no that doesn't include washing, cleaning or making babies.

Blush_01

Hagar wrote:

Aren't all the sheep we see female? They're not rams so they must be.

/Runs for cover.

Yeah, you see rams are invisible. It's part of their male supremacy. It also means they get knocked down a fair bit because when nobody can see you... well, you're hard to avoid.

Then again, it's a bit like the one hand clapping thing, or the tree falling in the woods. If nobody sees the ram, does it matter that the stupid fcuker got knocked down? Not that much, really.

As far as I can see, uber-feminism (please excuse the lack of umlauts!) is one of the most destructive things since the atomic bomb. Think of all the brain embolisms it's caused, all the hairy women wandering around out there like men, with hair on them... eww! You know, a little part of me dies every time I see a woman in a pair of trousers. The wasted opportunity for easy access.

Ah no, women do go a bit far with the "I'm as good as any man, shure look at my penis" thing. Anything is wrong when pushed to it's extreme. Extreme capitalism anyone?

Jaysus, they'd have hammered me in the Gender and Writing course.

Piste

I agree with the thread title, but not so much what the OP has posted (when I read the first line about him hearing "OH MY GOD NO WAY!" on the bus I thought that the post was gonna contain a rant about me as I have been the annoying schoolgirl on the bus a few times!). Women I think are becoming less ladylike, they dress like dudes, walk like dudes, talk like dudes and drink like dudes and if they're happy doing that it's well for them, but I prefer to be more feminine and be happy with my femininity. On the flipside, there are very few gentlemen anymore, guys that will hold doors open for you etc. I recently told a friend of mine about a couple of guys that had walked me to the main road when I was walking home so I wouldn't have to walk down a laneway in the dark and they laughed and called them pussies. I definitely wouldn't call walking a girl home being a pussy, it's just a very sweet and gentlemanly thig to do. (and no they weren't trying to get into my pants!) I think that a lot of women put themselves in the position where they're not respected, a few guys I know said "anyone could have any of the fourth years- except for Liz" (in my school) which to be honest was probably true as the girls in my year have a reputation for being somewhat loose, and at the party the night before I hadn't been throwing myself at every guy there so I suppose that's why my name got mentioned (and maybe also cos I was sitting in the taxi with them).

As for feminism, I wouldn't really call myself a "feminist". I can accept that there may be some things that a man would be better at than I and that I wouldn't even want to do (no heavy lifting for me! ^_^) It's only when I'm challanged because of being female that I'd get tetchy. It also doesn't help that media makes out that men and women are SOOO different and are always trying to understand eachother, when really we're all people and should be able to communicate on a human level, as people, not as male or female.

im_invisible

sar84 wrote:

My guess is that the men who are giving out about the lack of nice girls are the men who cant get the nice girls because of their attitude towards girls..

yeah, their attitude is to be a nice guy, and, well girls just love the ba$tards

nice guys finish last, and all that.....

Backtoblack

I'm female with principles & a strong opinion that I am not on the planet to please any man, unless it pleases me. I have interests outside the kitchen. In my bedroom, I will do as I please whilst respecting the ear drums of others (in so much as I can). I do not wear skirts above the knee or dress otherwise to suggest that I'm as easy as the next slut every weekend night. I will wear, think & do whatever-the-farg in the privacy of my own home.
I am of equal worth to other men & women on the planet, I do not think myself better or worse. (criminals/rapists etc excluded) Some people are born fortunate and should appreciate it, others are born less fortunate & should strive for happiness. What the farg is this thread about exactly?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz :eek: :rolleyes:

Backtoblack

Its no wonder there is extreme feminisim.. A lot of men treat women like second hand citizens still.. and its not that long ago, we didnt' even have a vote.
(I'm not a man hater) With all due respect, its easy to see why there are both anti-men & anti-women issues about.... Ego.
I dunno, its not just with "men vs women" is it, its a human condition I think, or a "virus of the mind" (as Heather Nova put it).

Christ, who spiked my drink? lol I'm raving.. I must lie down.

Piste

Backtoblack wrote:

I'm female with principles & a strong opinion that I am not on the planet to please any man, unless it pleases me. I have interests outside the kitchen. In my bedroom, I will do as I please whilst respecting the ear drums of others (in so much as I can). I do not wear skirts above the knee or dress otherwise to suggest that I'm as easy as the next slut every weekend night.:D

Say if you really liked a certain skirt, but it happened to be above the knee, would you comprimise your own tastes so that you're not dressing in a provocative way to men? Whether you're dresing for men or against men, you're still lettig men influence you, you should dress how you like, regardless of what these men whose opinions you claim not to care about think.

That said I've had this outlook for a while now, and sometimes it is just easier to wear jeans rather than a skirt to avoid unwanted attention.

Backtoblack

Piste wrote:

Say if you really liked a certain skirt, but it happened to be above the knee, would you comprimise your own tastes so that you're not dressing in a provocative way to men? Whether you're dresing for men or against men, you're still lettig men influence you, you should dress how you like, regardless of what these men whose opinions you claim not to care about think.

That said I've had this outlook for a while now, and sometimes it is just easier to wear jeans rather than a skirt to avoid unwanted attention.

I don't feel comfortable in them at any rate. I'm not a total prude & do wear low cut tops for example but generally I find men will gawk and stare & I get bored with being amused by it.

Piste

Oh I don't mind staring, but when men start coming up and making lewd mremarks and suggestions I'm torn between wearing different clothes in which case I've comprimised myself to shut them up, or put up with their rudeness while wearing what I want, so it's pretty much a lose-lose situation.

If a girl goes out in a short skirt and low-cut top and men are gawking at her and making suggestive comments, she's not being unladylike, they're being assholes.

Blush_01

This is after getting far too serious all of a sudden. Maybe we should go cook something.

(Just a comment on the nice guys/girls finishing last thing... it's not true. Any stable male or female would prefer a partner who is a "nice guy" to one who will treat both them and her or himself like dirt. Being a doormat is not being a "nice guy" - if you can't stand up for yourself, how can you expect someone else to do nothing but? Most people who like their partner to be a bit of an a$$hole are usually insecure in some way or another. Just my 2c.)

Backtoblack

Piste wrote:

Oh I don't mind staring, but when men start coming up and making lewd mremarks and suggestions I'm torn between wearing different clothes in which case I've comprimised myself to shut them up, or put up with their rudeness while wearing what I want, so it's pretty much a lose-lose situation.

If a girl goes out in a short skirt and low-cut top and men are gawking at her and making suggestive comments, she's not being unladylike, they're being assholes.

I don't know. Did the chicken or the egg come first?

Hagar

The chicken.

God wrote:

Gen. 1:20
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that has life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

That's that one settled for once and for all.;)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Terry wrote:

Shut the fúck up.

Terry, I don't think he was asking you.

Piste

The chicken leaned back in bed, cockily smoking a cigar and looking smug, while the egg sat hunched and tense, glaring out the window...

I guess that answers that question.

marksuttonie

marksuttonie wrote:

Bluewolf: does that bean men who are b*astards are self respecting well balanced individuals who get al the women and are the happiest alive?

No, it means there's a difference between being a genuinely nice person and a doormat/seriously boring person who is bitter about women.
The former will not rant about how stupid women are or bemoan that they always go for horrible people, and will not slag them off at length. The latter often will do this, and will think the only alternative to being "nice" (read: boring) is being a bastard.

I am a nice guy, so my girlfriends tell me!

Do you go around telling people you're a nice guy and that women are stupid for rejecting you, or do you not bring it up except to quote other opinions when the subject's already arisen?

dara robinson wrote:

Well I can tell you that I am not doormat. I am a nice guy and its not self proclaimed.

Well then my post wasn't aimed at you, now was it?

I know a lot of nice guys.. and they are not door mats!

:rolleyes:

Did I say all nice guys were doormats, no I certainly did not. I said in my experience that guys who declare themselves to be nice guys and subsequently bitch about women are in fact not nice guys at all. This of course is not a rule, just certain ones I've met. Now chill out, lads.

FlutterinBantam

Backtoblack wrote:

I'm female with principles & a strong opinion that I am not on the planet to please any man, unless it pleases me. I have interests outside the kitchen. In my bedroom, I will do as I please whilst respecting the ear drums of others (in so much as I can). I do not wear skirts above the knee or dress otherwise to suggest that I'm as easy as the next slut every weekend night. I will wear, think & do whatever-the-farg in the privacy of my own home.
I am of equal worth to other men & women on the planet, I do not think myself better or worse. (criminals/rapists etc excluded) Some people are born fortunate and should appreciate it, others are born less fortunate & should strive for happiness. What the farg is this thread about exactly?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz :eek: :rolleyes:

:eek:
Primrose oil is good for that ime of the month ,a friend told me

Marksie

bluewolf wrote:

Did I say all nice guys were doormats, no I certainly did not. I said in my experience that guys who declare themselves to be nice guys and subsequently bitch about women are in fact not nice guys at all. This of course is not a rule, just certain ones I've met. Now chill out, lads.

Now blue wolf that isn't exactly what you said, this is what you said:

bluewolf wrote:

Everyone single guy I've ever met who calls themselves a 'nice guy' is a doormat and doesn't know the difference between 'nice' and 'doormat with no self respect'. They are generally rejected by women and extremely bitter..

Just like that to be clarified, its similar indeed but with slightlky different emphasis. I never assumed you were directing at me personally btw. Even if you were it wouldn't bother me as i know me.
*express parcels chill pills to bluewolf :0).

marksuttonie

marksuttonie wrote:

Now blue wolf that isn't exactly what you said, this is what you said:

Just like that to be clarified, its similar indeed but with slightlky different emphasis. I never assumed you were directing at me personally btw. Even if you were it wouldn't bother me as i know me.
*express parcels chill pills to bluewolf :0).

Yes, especially note the "Every single guy I've ever met " in the second quote :P
Well it says "everyone single guy" but I meant to write "every". and no im not backpedalling! =D

*eats some chill pills, sells off rest at profit*

Nevyn

Well there is the fact that many men are for the most part no longer gentlemen.

a civilized, educated, sensitive, or well-mannered man: He behaved like a true gentleman

If you were never taught good manners and decorum then you would not know how to behave in such a fashion and when such behaviour was required.

I know I can be blunt, bold and on ocassion ballsy but I can also be gracefull and easily hold my own when needed in a high ettitute situation.

I have friends who are very much the gentlemen thos that are not and the way I treat them reflects in this and they way they treat me.

Yes the lack of manners and consideration for other people can be shocking
but I find that if people wish to let themsevles down in such a fashion that is thier look out.

Being a gentleman/person is not about being a doormat it is about having personal standards.

jellie

im_invisible wrote:

yeah, their attitude is to be a nice guy, and, well girls just love the ba$tards

nice guys finish last, and all that.....

yes. ive seen such great examples of nice guys in this thread :rolleyes:

Tak3n wrote:

Girls im here to tell you all.. the only thing you are good for is making babies and cooking us (men) food. Plz stfu and get back to the kitchen.

yes. just lovely.

L31mr0d wrote:

Irish woman are now at the bottom for a few reasons:

1. They don't look after their bodies: (i.e. women eating as much greasy food as a man after a night on the beer is not attractive)
2. They don't look after their minds: The filth I hear coming out of 20 something women on the bus or in town shows just how far their vocabulary has fallen.
3. They have blinders on about themselves: For some reason Irish women only seem to compare their beauty to their immediate group of friends, so if they are hot amongst the 5 burds they hang out with they think they are gods gift, when in fact they are one step below a vicky pollard.

yes this perfectly describes ALL irish women. we're all fat dirty b*tches who think we're hot :rolleyes:
While i would agree that there are certain groups of girls like this, what its telling me is you keep bad company.

Dara Robinson wrote:

you telling me that when women lead a guy on so that they can get their own way, its cause they are drunk? Must be a lot of drunk women around that I have not seen.

seems like a contradiction to me. You want a lady? a nice girl? surely a girl who sleeps withs you randomly when theyre drunk are 1 of the girls being referred to as "dirty sluts" (not necessarily by Dara Robinson, cant remember who said it). And youre willingness to take advantage of a drunk girl quickly knocks you out of the "nice guy" group.

L31mr0d wrote:

Man and Woman AREN'T equal, we each have qualities that the other sex lacks, its only the coming together of these qualities and an acceptance of them that will lead to a happy relationship

this is actually a good point. i like being female. i like being girly and being able to do girly things. BUT theres certain areas where people in a relationship SHOULD be equal ie. the fast food thing above, women cant eat fast food on a night out, its wrong! (i just find it so hilarious that that would be used as an argument.. )

I could continue going through the thread & finding more stuff but im bored of it.

my boyfriend is a nice guy.
my friends boyfriends are nice guys.
& none of them have such bad attitudes towards women as some of the men in this thread do.

dodgyme

Dumbing down is happening and the irony is that I am going to use BBrother as the place where it is proven. Look at the way the Indain Lady was treated by the other slappers. They represent what we now have a women and the Indain girl represents what a lady is like. We watch dumb down shows and see dumb down slappers, but they represent a wider challenge for society with women having very little respect for their bodies and minds.

Red Alert

Exactly. Shilpa Shetty is an amazing looking woman who appears very intelligent. And she was subjected to that sort of abuse, and took it intelligently too. Sadly, we wouldn't have thought Jade Goody & Co. were abnormal but for Shilpa, because as far as I can see it's everywhere nowadays.

I was in one of the BT2 shops yesterday, and was served by a beautiful girl from eastern europe. (Disclaimer: used to work there, but different branch) Very friendly, great manner, very genuine and impeccably presented. This is something I find with a lot of the eastern europeans. The women are great fun once you get to know them, but it doesn't come at the expense of feminity and good manners.

dodgyme

Exactly Red. My problem is that the BB scenario happens all over the country and in Britain too. Only for the TV audience being the judge and jury, Shilpa was screwed if you were to look at it socially. For example if this was not BB, but a group of girls in an office. The Shipla character would be bullied til she left and she would have been the one made to feel like there was something wrong with her and her confidence destroyed. For example The amount of companies in Ireland where a single girl/women is singled out because she wont play ball with the 'stick you tits out' slapper types. This is behaviour which is not as common amoungst men. Even when men have hassle with others in the workplace a couple of the lads always are supportive in some way to the bullied party. This is very rare in female equivalent. This is backed up by the mens behaviour in the BB house. Best e.g. I can give of the modern 'lady' (not!) was when I was in a 4/5 star hotel and having a few pints with me mate. We were in a private discussion at about 3 in the morning in the reception with pints. Then 2 girls came in and plonked themselves beside us, tits out and look at me type. We were pleasant to them but not interested in talking to them, which they hated. We eventually got ticked off with them and my friend told them to leave. Basically they were at the c*ck teasing and we werent having it. Then they went outside, I when to bed and I could hear them shouting about how ignorance we were in not listening to their crap (The whole village could hear the drunken rant). I did think to myself 'Imagaine if I walked into a hotel and started drunkingly annoying/hassling the crap outta 2 women sitting up having a private conversation.' If i behaved like them I probably would be asked to leave the reception or the hotel. Funny thing was that when we told them to get lost one of them started hassling us on how she wasn't interested in us because she was engaged and we must be gay. My reply was that I wasnt gay until I spotted her and her mate and that her fiancee would probably find it interesting her coming on to a few gay boys in a high class hotel. Ignorant slappers!

Terry

I'm off to join the nation of islam.
Those folks know how to treat their women.

Blush_01

There is one point I find is psrticularly important to make here and now, with regard to the BB incident. While Jade Goody, her mother and the girls who egged her on were not of the same social calibre as Shilpa Sheti in the eyes of many posters here, may not have had the same educational advantages, may have been callous and unrefined and most certainly acted in a reprehensible manner, I refuse to accept that nobody else found Shilpa's behaviour reproachable. She cried in the house, went to the diary room and gushed about how wonderful everything was, came back out and cried all over again about being bullied. She was two-faced in her own way, and was most certainly not the angel she is being portrayed to be. Nobody denies that the behaviour of the bullies was wrong, but to deny that Shilpa herself did wrong just shows how overly PC we have become.

I have much more respect for a fellow female who will acknowledge being irritated than one who will play the victim with an "I'm alright, poor little me, I don't want to make a fuss" attitude in an attempt to gain attention. Sheti is (and was) a much better actress than the majority of the international public have given her credit for - BB was a gleaming example of her marvellous skills as a "thespian". As a result she's a household name internationally. The poor little victim has gained immeasurably from what was most probably sheer frustration on the part of Goody, compounded by the attitude of petty, jealous familiars who encouraged her to go further than she would have if she had stopped to think about how she felt.

Women can be fantastic, but they can also be manipulative, cruel and downright mean. The same applies to men, although they're usually more open about it.

As for grooming, presentation, attitude et al - that varies from person to person. Many of us don't see the need for make-up on a daily basis. Some of us actually like our skin to breathe. No point in being a Monet now, is there?

BEAT

who made this a serious discussion?

burn them, burn them now.

Backtoblack

He done it!! --->>> *points at..... DarkJagger* (Crowd Gasps)....

Hagar

Blush_01 wrote:

No point in being a Monet now, is there?

I'd settle for Monet, there's some Picasso women out there. Shudder.