Battlestar Galacticrap?

Bazookatone

I think we are all being a little harsh, and not giving the BSG team their due. They have really raised the bar in terms of quality.

The truth is, all shows have filler, some shows are nothing but filler (Dawsons Creek for example had all the important events happen in the first and last two episodes of the season, rest of the time, nothing, ditto the OC, ditto One Tree Hill). SG-1 had it's share of filler, and some of it was (and I choose my words carefully) crap.

If anyone remembers that final season of Angel, it was entirely filler, just a gap between the end of season 4 and cancellation.

Furthermore, for the Battlestar story to be fully told, a lot of boring stuff has to be included. An episode about strikes and unions may not be exciting, but the groundwork has to be laid for a better episode in the future.

And one more thing, even is you think that episode is boring, it has an important social message you should listen to.In the past, people were fired, starved and beaten for better working conditions that people now enjoy, and this episode pays respect to them. We should remember that too.

Stark

If you're comparing BSG to the likes of Dawson's creek and the OC then that's not very flattering.

Bazookatone wrote:

Furthermore, for the Battlestar story to be fully told, a lot of boring stuff has to be included. An episode about strikes and unions may not be exciting, but the groundwork has to be laid for a better episode in the future.

They were still ****e. I didn't remember the groundwork episodes from Season 1&2 being that boring.

Bazookatone wrote:

And one more thing, even is you think that episode is boring, it has an important social message you should listen to.

Yes teacher.

SprostonGreen

I've been following it avidly but it dawned on me recently that I dont know all the character names. I dont know why this is as I love the show.

I know:

Adama
Roslin
Col. Tighe
Starbuck
Apollo
Boomer/Sharon
Helo
Number 6/Caprica

And em, thats it.

I dont know:

Starbucks husband
Apollos wife.

The engineer Tyrell? - his wife

The guy in the command centre who helped the resistance on Caprica and was almost killed by the kangaroo court.

The Aussie Cylon

Dean Stockwell

Richard Hatch

Stark

Starbucks husband - Anders
Apollos wife. - Lieutenant "Dee" Dualla (She's easily forgettable alright)

The engineer Tyrell? - his wife - Cally (Whiny cow)

The guy in the command centre who helped the resistance on Caprica and was almost killed by the kangaroo court. - Felix Gaeta

The Aussie Cylon - Leoben Conroy

Dean Stockwell - Brother Cavil

Richard Hatch - Tom Zarek

Vokes

I think the Aussie Cylon he means is D'Anna Biers, but she's a Kiwi ?

SprostonGreen

Thanks for that Stark, Cally and Gaeta seem familar now that you've posted them.

soma

Oops just saw this thread now, this would have been a better home for my mini-rant than the latest episode thread.

>>>
My 'woeful' vote is probably just me taking out my frustration based on the entire third series. But since about ep6 of season 3, BSG has been pants, pure & simple.

I now dont care how "amazing/mind-blowing" the last ep is. A season is NOT about the last one or two eps, and some big pay-off. It's about a good *series* and this has been a major let down.

With Lost also having 'lost' the plot I'm starting to think I'll never see an 'arc' TV program of the quality of Babylon5 again. And lord knows B5 had its hairy bits! :-)

Jack B. Badd

youcancallme>al wrote:

Ah come on now there's no need for trash talking Sliders

Sure there is...it was freaking awful!

Bazookatone wrote:

And one more thing, even is you think that episode is boring, it has an important social message you should listen to.In the past, people were fired, starved and beaten for better working conditions that people now enjoy, and this episode pays respect to them. We should remember that too.

O_o
This argument only really works if the target audience is retarded. I'm not, therefore I don't need to be spoon fed moral or social messages, thank you.

redtom

Quote:
Originally Posted by youcancallme>al
Ah come on now there's no need for trash talking Sliders

Sure there is...it was freaking awful!

yeah, but Kari Wuhrer was hot...

Bazookatone

Jack B. Badd wrote:

This argument only really works if the target audience is retarded. I'm not, therefore I don't need to be spoon fed moral or social messages, thank you.

Star Trek spoon fed moral messages to people for years, and did it with considerably less skill than battlestar. And I'd bet you watched Star Trek. Did you mind when they did it?

Plus (and I don't want to sound petty here) but, if you had to make a sci fi TV show, are you so sure you could do a better job. I mean really, it's not just a matter of throwing together some cgi, some dialogue on a spaceship bridge and Bob's your uncle. Occasionally, the makers just don't hit the nail on the head. It's not like they said "Hey, we've made two good seasons, why don't we churn out a series of menaingless crap for a change"

Jack B. Badd

Bazookatone wrote:

Star Trek spoon fed moral messages to people for years, and did it with considerably less skill than battlestar. And I'd bet you watched Star Trek. Did you mind when they did it?

Plus (and I don't want to sound petty here) but, if you had to make a sci fi TV show, are you so sure you could do a better job. I mean really, it's not just a matter of throwing together some cgi, some dialogue on a spaceship bridge and Bob's your uncle. Occasionally, the makers just don't hit the nail on the head. It's not like they said "Hey, we've made two good seasons, why don't we churn out a series of menaingless crap for a change"

If it were required that you had produced your own Sci-fi show before having an opinion on others, this forum, along with every other, would be very, very quiet...

And yes, I did watch ST (mostly when I was a child and tbh in my opinion children, unlike adults, do need to be spoon fed morals to a certain extent), and yes, at my age it does annoy me that the morals of the creators are so clumsily represented. Nonetheless, I still watch ST and I still watch BSG too. And unfortunately for you, matey, I'm still going to give out when they don't live up to my expectations!

sioda

The biggest thing with BSG is they are trying to make dramatic scifi and imho it works and works well.

You need slow filler type eps to flesh out the characters so they become more believeable. As a full season has now past this season can easily hold its head up against series three of ANY sci fi show and imo many dramaesque show that are out there at the mo and in the past

Stark

sioda wrote:

As a full season has now past this season can easily hold its head up against series three of ANY sci fi show and imo many dramaesque show that are out there at the mo and in the past

I wholeheartedly disagree

In sci-fi shows:

Farscape had some crappy filler episodes in Season 1, 2 and 4 but Season 3 was the finest season they did in my opinion and I would take it over Season 3 of BSG any day of the week.

Season 3 of Babylon 5 also beats the pants off Season 3 of BSG even though I preferred the first two seasons of BSG.

The X-files was really good around Season 3 before it went south.

I'm sure other people will be able to add more to the list.

Jack B. Badd

Imo Season 3 of B5 would still beat the pants off any of the 3 seasons of BSG. And (barring some issues with Season 5) JMS at least managed to keep the momentum going.

sioda

Stark I will give you Farscape Season 3 my bad.

Bab 5 was not great in any season. As Sci fi its fup there with Sliders for me as a show that went on way too long but yet shows like Space Above and Beyond get canned after a year.

Jack B. Badd

sioda wrote:

Stark I will give you Farscape Season 3 my bad.

Bab 5 was not great in any season. As Sci fi its fup there with Sliders for me as a show that went on way too long but yet shows like Space Above and Beyond get canned after a year.

o_O

thelordofcheese

sioda wrote:

yet shows like Space Above and Beyond get canned after a year.

Well, no matter your thoughts on season three, i think most of us can agree that Space: Above and Beyond getting canned was a crime against humanity.

Bazookatone

thelordofcheese wrote:

Well, no matter your thoughts on season three, i think most of us can agree that Space: Above and Beyond getting canned was a crime against humanity.

OK, this is my last word on the subject:

Battlestar has had some filler, and some episodes that didn't get it right, agreed. However, I will still watch the show, and accept the odd bad episode.

In my opinion, Battlestar has raised the bar across the board for script, characterisation, CGI, plot direction and cinematography for all sci fi.

Farscape had a imaginative plot and creative and way out characters and sets and CGI, which I loved, bt which always gave the sense that they were doing the whole thing on a shoe string budget. Still, kudos.

Andromeda is a comprehensive instruction book of how NOT to do it. laughable characters, meandering plot, no characterisation, crummy dialogue, music that sounds like its from a porn film. It's the chinese water torture of sci fi shows.

the early cancellation of Firefly and Space Above and Beyond were bad, bad decisions. The 8 season run of charmed was an unspeakable evil.

I will no longer post on this thread, as I have no new insights into this particular subject. Jack B Badd, I can't sayI agree with you, but due credit, you made some good points.

Khannie

Bazookatone wrote:

the early cancellation of Firefly and Space Above and Beyond were bad, bad decisions.

I've seen 10 episodes of Firefly now....I just cannot for the life of me understand how that show got axed. Cannot understand it.

The box set is 71st in the amazon.co.uk all time dvd sales! :eek:

Stark

Firefly didn't get a good airing schedule at all during its first run. For one thing, episodes were aired out of order. The first two episodes were aired last and 3 episodes didn't get aired at all. Stupid Fox.

Jack B. Badd

Am I the only person who though S:AAB was a big pile of crap? Firefly, on the other hand, was some piece of work and whoever decided to cancel it deserves a right slap :mad:

BKtje

S:AAB has legendary status from three generations of my family.

User45701

Ok..... This is the one topic that i didn’t know what to say, its so weird all the things people where saying i wouldn’t no where to begin and 17.15 on a Friday afternoon is not a good time to get my head recked by annoying forum people. After reading the first 2 pages some of the descriptions where a bit madd and there is no point in me quoting what you all said, id just be repeating myself every single post...

SAAB: Should not have been cancelled.

Ok. BSG Season 3 is like any show, book, movie ect. It will have different effect on different people.
I don’t know why but i don’t hate you all for what you said i don’t even feel sorry for those that didn’t enjoy the show.
BSG Has always been what i wanted i have never not liked a episode and there where no fillers in season 3 (that discussion was resolved in another topic) If you consider a episode a filler re-watch it and i am sure you will find that it is not.

If you didn’t enjoy BSG and thought some episodes where fillers when that does not matter, you might have seen it already or you might not but for each and every single one of us there is a perfect movie, a perfect book (kinda like the whole thing where people believe in a soul mate)

For me BSG is something that i love and i am scared that the last episode might be a disappointment but in the here and now its amazing season 3 was fantastic the character directions alone without the first 6 episodes made it amazing .... and Tigh!
I regreat that so many didn’t like some episodes but it got exeatly what i want, one more season to tie it all up nicely. What makes it better is that they decided to end it, i was so worried that they would make some attempt to change the direction of the show to please the masses but they are staying true to what BSG is.

Before this turns into a flame war against me i will make one concession. The “love square/triangle” (or whatever it was). It was hated, i thought it was good and interesting at the start but it was dragged on slightly too long and at the end it was only ok.

All in all BSG is the closent thing to a Flawless show i have ever seen and i don’t understand ½ the things said in this forum since after Exodus Part II. I started to think you where all small minded people who where not entertained unless something exploded. I don’t think that anymore but i don’t understand why you all say filler so much. Anyway i was worried we wouldent get a final ending to BSg and it would end like SAAB but it didn’t, my fears of the normies getting another show cancelled where not justified.

Ill end by saying please re-watch the episodes you didn’t like, you might be surprised.

EDIT: If you are wondering whats with the massive BSG posting its because so many people had complained about season 3 so i thought a big post would do it, so little by little about once a week or so i would spend 15 min of my lunch writing up posts for the bsg forum but i never got time to finish them off and then i decided to just not post any of them till i was finished with the topics i wanted to post in, i finishe dthis a month ago, it was easyier typing this than copying/pasting/posting.

Again one last time, anyone who didnt like BSG please re-watch the episodes you didn’t like, you might be surprised.

Jack B. Badd

User45701 wrote:

I don’t know why but i don’t hate you all for what you said i don’t even feel sorry for those that didn’t enjoy the show.

Damn, what kind of ego-maniacal dipsh*t considers feeling sorry for people who express a different opinion to theirs as a reasonable response to a discussion about a god damned TV show?!

User45701

I dont even understand your question, maybe you didnt understand what i am saying, i consider the quality of acting and writing to be far above that of most TV shows and i do feel sorry for people that dont like it,

just like death note, im sure any fan of the show feels sorry for those who got a few spoilers and didnt get to watch it as it came out knowing nothing

Jack B. Badd

User45701 wrote:

i do feel sorry for people that dont like it,

A minute ago you said you didn't even feel sorry for those that didn’t enjoy the show.... Maybe you didn't understand what you were saying.

User45701

actually i wrote that part about 2 months ago, it took time to write up all those posts to argue against those that didnt like it, and i guess whenever i wrote that i was in quote a condesending mood

TetsuoHashimoto

Battlestar blew it ! At one time it could have ranked up there with Firefly, the original Trek, Outer limits. Now its just become a parody of itself, somebody should have saved this show from disgrace and axed it early.

Overheal

thing is the 3 youve mentioned were quite episodic where BSG is not - it follows an extremely progressive story arc. In Firefly and Trek and OL each episode you could happily pick up and watch in any order.

I'll reserve my final judgement on a complete rewatch whenever that may be. Season 3 was betraying my expectations but thus far season 4 seems ok.

Sherifu

TetsuoHashimoto wrote: »

Battlestar blew it ! At one time it could have ranked up there with Firefly, the original Trek, Outer limits. Now its just become a parody of itself, somebody should have saved this show from disgrace and axed it early.

I think it can still pull it out of the fire.

mickoneill30

Was Battlestar affected by the writers strike and the writing was taken over by a team of priests? I'm really tired of listening to Baltair talk about how we're perfect and God loves us.

Give me spaceships and battles damnit. At the start of every episode we used to get told the cylons had a plan. We don't get told that anymore. They've given up on it apparently.

It's jumped the shark for me.

CodeMonkey

It's more messianic fantasy now rather than sci-fi with an awful lot of melodrama. The acting is decent, the special effects great but I am bored. A lot of the latest plot twists seem forced. It looks like the writers are just out of original ideas.

User45701

I dont understand, i dont want to quote examples from season 4 unless you have seen everything aired so far...

when you say out of orginal idea's do you mean they are re-using plots from earlier BSG episodes or they are re-using plots from other TV shows/movies?

TetsuoHashimoto

In my opinion its a bit of both, first their own BSG idea has faltered. Each season we were told about some big story arc in Battlestar, how the cyborgs had a plan. Now the writers look lost in space while THEY HAVE A PLAN got deleted from the season 4 credits. I think its producers or writers have started to borrow lots from other material, this whole messianic fantasy smells a lot of DS-9, Carnivale or the Dune books. The larger issue being the story in Dune, DS9 flowed a whole lot better than BSG. Perhaps this was because their writers could keep track of continuity. I'm not sure why they are pushing this whole messianic fantasy, perhaps the producers decided to film some unused scripts from other scifi shows ? Whatever the issue S4 is just not working for me and many others, I hope the next FTL jump doesn't send the Battlestar over a shark. :eek:

youcancallmeal

Is season 4 the last season?
I really hope so because they can only drag the current storyline out so much

Overheal

TetsuoHashimoto wrote: »

In my opinion its a bit of both, first their own BSG idea has faltered. Each season we were told about some big story arc in Battlestar, how the cyborgs had a plan. Now the writers look lost in space while THEY HAVE A PLAN got deleted from the season 4 credits. I think its producers or writers have started to borrow lots from other material, this whole messianic fantasy smells a lot of DS-9, Carnivale or the Dune books. The larger issue being the story in Dune, DS9 flowed a whole lot better than BSG. Perhaps this was because their writers could keep track of continuity. I'm not sure why they are pushing this whole messianic fantasy, perhaps the producers decided to film some unused scripts from other scifi shows ? Whatever the issue S4 is just not working for me and many others, I hope the next FTL jump doesn't send the Battlestar over a shark. :eek:

Having read through all of dune I dont see the connection, really. A very faint one at best.

TetsuoHashimoto

Dune had a plan, plus they pulled off that religion element so much better. Another cult show I'm checking out is Babylon-5, I never bothered with it because I didn't think its funky look was my thing but I'm sad I haven't check it out earlier. It's got this fantastic story arc with each episode building on the last unlike other tv series where each episode dilutes the overall picture. Straczynski is working for Marvel now doing a Silver Surfer movie but you should check out his vision on Babylon-5 universe, its available on hulu, aol and such sites. I might have rated BSG as one of the top scifi show but not anymore, it got too diluted and its continuity failed as the years rolled on.

youcancallme>al wrote: »

Is season 4 the last season?

The show will be dragged out some more, production was very stop-start thanks to the writers strike. 13 episodes of S4 will be broadcast on US scifi channel in 2008, the rest the writers are only starting on but I've been hearing some of the actors have already jumped to other shows. The guy who plays the "Chief" is reportedly movie to a tv series on Fox, so we always have the possibility Ted McGinley or the girl who played Ezri Dax will show up and replace one of the BSG cast members. That's when I think the series will really FTL jump over a shark.

:0

Overheal

I think like msot things dune didnt start with much of a plan; Frank just went to town with it. But he had years and years to write up his notes and memoirs on it - which I think is how he got away with some of the brilliantly intricate plot arcs involved. Moore only has the off-season to fart out new epiphanies. And dont forget a lot of the flesh had to be filled in by Frank's son brian after Frank passed away. We didnt even get the finale until last year because the final notes were hiding in an obscure deposit box somewhere in Washington and they werent until recently discovered. Youre talking about 30+ years of Science fiction in 14 installments. This is 5 years of Television crammed into 4 seasons and a miniseries plus whatever Moore planned to start with (which was basically most of the stuff he crammed into the miniseries and season 1). And you have to direct and work around the production issues. Someone has to flesh out the actual dialogue too. Huge effing difference.

Re Season 4: they originally announced 13 episodes but this was later expanded to 20 or so. If you look back a couple pages you'll have seen those posts. Tis the final season.

kowloon

If it has a good ending all will be forgiven, but I always watched it for the military aspect, something that's been trimmed down a fair bit in the newer episodes.
That said, theres nothing better to watch: Stargate is terrible, Heroes is doomed to turn into crap (if it hasn't already, I stopped watching). The Terminator series is pure and utter muck, I hope the new film has nothing to do with it. Don't even start me on Lost.
BSG is one of the few sci-fi programmes that didn't tone down too much to suit a "family" audience.
I want Space Above and Beyond back.

Johnny Storm

Overheal wrote: »

... And dont forget a lot of the flesh had to be filled in by Frank's son brian after Frank passed away. ....

Slightly OT here but I just cant help myself.

With all due respect, I imagine you meant to say "a lot more cash had to be milked by Frank's son and his ghost writer buddy many, many years after Frank passed away"

IMHO Dune is one of the very best SF novels ever, Dune Messiah is pretty excellent too.
The "novels" co-written by his son are an absolute travesty.

BigglesMcGee

Im very dissapointed with this season so far.
I used to look forward to watching BSG every week. Now i am finding it a chore to watch and trying to stick it out in case it recovers.

TetsuoHashimoto

SAAB could have been a great series on the subject of it looks like Glen Morgan (SAAB/Xfiles) had a bit of a bust up with David Eick on BionicWoman. I wonder if they series could have been any better if Glen had stayed ? I liked Moore's Trek movie but why does Ronald D Moore get credit for the battlestar mini series ? Ok they slapped the Moore sticker on it as producer, but as I see it the guy had little involvement and was sitting thousands of miles away while Michael Rymer did most of the work. Prior to the writing of Resurrection Ship, 33, Occuption people like Hatch would appear to have just as much involvement in this BSG second coming

Tea drinker

kowloon wrote: »

If it has a good ending all will be forgiven, but I always watched it for the military aspect, something that's been trimmed down a fair bit in the newer episodes.
That said, theres nothing better to watch: Stargate is terrible, Heroes is doomed to turn into crap (if it hasn't already, I stopped watching). The Terminator series is pure and utter muck, I hope the new film has nothing to do with it. Don't even start me on Lost.
BSG is one of the few sci-fi programmes that didn't tone down too much to suit a "family" audience.
I want Space Above and Beyond back.

Well, I haven't really been watching the new BSG religously, but so far it has turned out dissapointing. I have enjoyed lost, but I haven't seen ANYTHING of the new series. Lost is more of a boxset-sitdown-for the weekend jobbie, and I really enjoyed it like that, same as Soprano's, but not as much so...

Stargate atlantis is watchable as well, but you need to get into it.

I'm often sorry that firefly was cancelled, but hey, if it wasn't, maybe we'd be saying the same thing it that we say about BSG.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

o.0
did I really just see someone compare atlantis favourably to bsg?

no.. no i couldn't have seen something so utterly retarded.

Tea drinker

Mordances with wolves wrote: »

o.0
did I really just see someone compare atlantis favourably to bsg?

no.. no i couldn't have seen something so utterly retarded.

Ta me anseo.
BSG is CURRENTLY worse than Atlantis.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

lol

thanks for excusing yourself from the discussion, I will henceforth ignore your contributions.

silvine

What would Teal'c make of this comparison!

Sherifu

silvine wrote: »

What would Teal'c make of this comparison!

Teal'c is a strange man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka6tvlewO3c

Tea drinker

Mordances with wolves wrote: »

lol

thanks for excusing yourself from the discussion, I will henceforth ignore your contributions.

hence and thus likewise

Overheal

yeah..

S4 there disappointed me.

which may be why im enjoying bsg s4 so much