Ireland Soccer Fans Shafted Again

PRman

As an Ireland fan on the waiting list for the Block-Booking Scheme, I recently got offered tickets for the upcoming Internationals In Croker which I gratefully accepted. I sent my letter back well before the deadline in January and rang them for confirmation they received my acceptance. After weeks of hearing nothing, I have tried to phone them several times with no luck, and today they finally responded to my second e-mail:

We have currently allocated all of our tickets for Croke Park. However we are still trying to facilitate those remaining on our waiting list who have yet to be allocated tickets that they requested.

We still hope to be able to facilitate your request and we will be in contact as soon as any tickets become available.

Regards,

Ticket Office

What a joke. Another case of the real fan getting shafted again. Sounds like they have decided to increase the allocation to the prawn sandwich brigade. This sounds like Ryanair over-booking seats - What a joke. No wonder Irish Soccer is in disarray with this sort of organisation. I feel like going down to Merrion Square to give them a piece of my mind.... Anyone else had the same problem?

Bluetonic

First of all you should probably clear up the fact that you weren't offered tickets, you were offered the chance to apply for tickets, there is a big difference and the application letter made this clear.

PRman wrote:

What a joke. Another case of the real fan getting shafted again. Sounds like they have decided to increase the allocation to the prawn sandwich brigade.

There are 60,000 approx tickets which could have been allocated to home fans via the block booking. Currently there are 30,000 tickets allocated via the LR block booking, considering they allowed LR block bookers to increase their desired amount and had over 6,000 people on the waiting listing looking for one or more tickets it's quite simple to tell that not everyone was going to be satisfied.

It's an overreaction on your behalf to presume 'they decided to increase the allocation to the prawn sandwich brigade'

What number were you on the waiting list?

PRman

Do you work for the FAI Bluetonic? Certainly sounds like it with the excuses - I can tell you I was offered tickets. Of course the FAI are clever enough not to word it so it would be considered a legally binding contract, but the letter said 'we would like to offer you tickets for the upcoming internationals' so how explicit do you want it? The letter offered me tickets but just said we cannot guarantee the numbers that you request... I applied for 4 - I would have settled for 2. I know someone who has got 7 tickets through the block booking - Is that fair? Regarding the numbers that you have quoted bluetonic - It's simple maths. Why did they offer tickets to fans they couldn't cater for? It's shabby to say the least.

Regarding my number on the list I was less than 5000th - Well within the increased capacity of 30,000 on Landsdowne I'm sure you will agree....

Bluetonic

PRman wrote:

Do you work for the FAI Bluetonic?

No.

PRman wrote:

Certainly sounds like it with the excuses - I can tell you I was offered tickets. Of course the FAI are clever enough not to word it so it would be considered a legally binding contract, but the letter said 'we would like to offer you tickets for the upcoming internationals' so how explicit do you want it? The letter offered me tickets but just said we cannot guarantee the numbers that you request...

I've got a copy of same letter in front of me here and on the second page the last point clearly says 'All applicants will be notified as to the success of their application request as soon as possible'

PRman wrote:

Regarding the numbers that you have quoted bluetonic - It's simple maths. Why did they offer tickets to fans they couldn't cater for? It's shabby to say the least.

Once again it was an offer to apply for tickets, not an offer of tickets.

PRman wrote:

Regarding my number on the list I was less than 5000th - Well within the increased capacity of 30,000 on Landsdowne I'm sure you will agree....

I agree all waiting listers should have been catered for before extras for the existing block bookers.

PRman

You should be a politician Bluetonic. Sounds like you have your tickets in your back pocket anyway. What number were you on the queue anyway? The bottom line is the FAI are a joke of an organisation. They have gone badly downhill since they shafted Fran Rooney....

Bluetonic

PRman wrote:

You should be a politician Bluetonic.

Not at all. I'm simply stating the facts. Do you accept that you mistook an offer to apply for tickets as a promise of tickets? I feel sorry for you but the letter was clear.

PRman wrote:

Sounds like you have your tickets in your back pocket anyway. What number were you on the queue anyway?

On the wating list @ approx 1,100.

PRman wrote:

The bottom line is the FAI are a joke of an organisation.

Only on the part of offering more tickets to block bookers without sorting out the waiting listers first, the letters themselves were clear.

I'm sure of you pop over to foot.ie you can add you names to the list for spares.

CiaranC

Its gas how every time someone cant get a ticket they are 'the real fans' and the rest of us are the 'prawn sandwich brigade'.

Benedict XVI

CiaranC wrote:

Its gas how every time someone cant get a ticket they are 'the real fans' and the rest of us are the 'prawn sandwich brigade'.

That and the 'You must work for....' retort are classic.

therecklessone

I predict a long and successful career in PR.

PRman

Do you accept the FAI should not have sent out a letter inviting applications unless they were guaranteed at leaset two tickets? I suggest you read the whole thread Ciaran and understand the core point before you jump into your comments. Business is going particularly well at the moment freckles thanks for asking.

Anyone have an opinion on this who HASN'T ALREADY GOT A TICKET? Opinions are tainted somewhat....

CiaranC

I arranged my tickets for the upcoming game in 1985

Bluetonic

PRman wrote:

Do you accept the FAI should not have sent out a letter inviting applications unless they were guaranteed at leaset two tickets?

No.

event

PRman wrote:

As an Ireland fan on the waiting list for the Block-Booking Scheme, I recently got offered tickets for the upcoming Internationals In Croker which I gratefully accepted. I sent my letter back well before the deadline in January and rang them for confirmation they received my acceptance. After weeks of hearing nothing, I have tried to phone them several times with no luck, and today they finally responded to my second e-mail:

We have currently allocated all of our tickets for Croke Park. However we are still trying to facilitate those remaining on our waiting list who have yet to be allocated tickets that they requested.

We still hope to be able to facilitate your request and we will be in contact as soon as any tickets become available.

Regards,

Ticket Office

What a joke. Another case of the real fan getting shafted again. Sounds like they have decided to increase the allocation to the prawn sandwich brigade. This sounds like Ryanair over-booking seats - What a joke. No wonder Irish Soccer is in disarray with this sort of organisation. I feel like going down to Merrion Square to give them a piece of my mind.... Anyone else had the same problem?

can you scan in the letter that says they are offering you tickets?

Raytown Rocks

Hey PRman

I was/am on the list. I come in around the 3800 mark. I too had to ring the FAI to be told I hadnt received tickets. I was stunned as I presumed that the letter I got basically guaranteed me tickets, or so I though, and I was wrong.

I understand how you feel and I felt exactly the same way. I actually rang them twice to see if I had misunderstood what they had said, or they had made a mistake, they hadnt though and I was secrewed.

Here is the bit you wont like, though.
I have the letter here in front of me.It goes a like this.

Please note the following

• completing an application form is not a guarentee that the number of tickets requested will be supplied
• Tickets and location are subject to availability.SHOULD YOUR APPLICATION BE SUCCESSFUL we reserve the right to offer a lesser number of tickets than requested or at a different location.

I suppose the use of the word " should" really is the important word. I think it clarifies where we stand.

So to finish, I too thought I was sure of tickets, I asked for 3 and I told the lads we were sorted.
I was wrong.
I was very pissed off.
I feel agrieved, but thats the way it is, its all in the way we read the letters and I suppose I read it as tickets were a given and not just a possibility.
I agree the FAI may have dealt better with this, but it is the FAI after all, and that isnt their strong point.

Chef

PRman

I wish I had the letter event - You had to send the original letter back as 'photocopies were not accepted' Kickin' myself I didn't keep a copy of it. Did you keep a copy of your letter Bluetonic? (presumably it's the same one) If you seen the letter you would understand why I'm annoyed about this!!! By the way I rang the FAI and they said the reason why people below me on the list had got tickets was because they applied for 70 euro tickets. Would you agree bluetonic that I should have been given 1st refusal on these?

PRman

Hooray, someone that agrees with me. Chef could you quote the opening part of the letter where it says 'we would like to offer YOU tickets for the upcoming internationals...'' Cheers. That's the line that bugs me. BTW how do you feel about someone a couple of hundred places above you getting 4 tickets? bad form... I had them promised to mates - I told my Dad I'd bring him to germany game, etc. etc.

eirebhoy

The FAI should have put a limit on the amount of tickets one person could apply for. People on foot.ie have got up to 10.

Raytown Rocks

PRman wrote:

Hooray, someone that agrees with me. Chef could you quote the opening part of the letter where it says 'we would like to offer YOU tickets for the upcoming internationals...'' Cheers. That's the line that bugs me. BTW how do you feel about someone a couple of hundred places above you getting 4 tickets? bad form... I had them promised to mates - I told my Dad I'd bring him to germany game, etc. etc.

Sorry PRman
I only have the 2nd page that gives all the bullet points and it doesn't say that part you ask about. Now thats not to say it didnt ( I cant remember) but I havent got all the original pages.
The fact that people above me on the list got tickets and I didnt is a complete pain in the arse, and very annoying, but what can we do.
There is no point in complaining to the FAI they wont be of any help.
Yes its not fair. and Yes its probably the norm for the FAI to make a balls of things, I suppose maybe we shouldnt have expected so much from them.

Chef

event

harsh lads, but it is an application to get tickets, or so it sounds like the quote

Tickets and location are subject to availability.SHOULD YOUR APPLICATION BE SUCCESSFUL we reserve the right to offer a lesser number of tickets than requested or at a different location.

and i wouldnt be tellign anyone i had tickets until i had them in my hand

grahamo

I think most football fans know by now the FAI couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. How can they justify giving one fan 7/8 tickets while another fan gets none? We must be the only national side on the planet that doesn't have our own stadium. What have they been doing with the money they've made since the late 80's?

leninbenjamin

grahamo wrote:

What have they been doing with the money they've made since the late 80's?

prawn sandwiches for the board meetings

Loadedscream

I have a lot of sympathy for the OP......the FAI are clowns in how they dealt with this....while the OP was certainly not "offered" tickets in the first instance it was not unreasonable for him to assume his request would be fulfilled (at least partially)

The FAI dished these tickets out in the most inequitable way possible people were given 6-10 tickets while people further down the list were offered none and while people further up the list were offered none as they asked for the most popular location!!!!!. A friend of mine recieved 9 tickets and only joined the waiting list about 6 months ago...i personally recieved 6 tickets.

To have no upper limit was madness and bound to lead to a situation like this....the max should have been 4....and less if the waiting list could not be looked after at this limit!!!

the FAI have f**ked up an unf**kable situation

PRman

Clowns is not the word - They can't do anything right. They appoint a manger who has 2 months coaching experience at walsall for gods sake but that another days work!! Grass Roots is a joke. look how great schoolboy clubs like Fettercairn (produced Keane & Jason Gavin) have diminshed
They dont give a damn about the fans. we're only numbers. it's more cost effective to sell 70,000 to 10,000 customers than to 20/30,000 customers so that's why they're doing what they're doing. How can they justify giving 9 tickets to one person - is he related to someone in the FAI?

Raskolnikov

PRman wrote:

Clowns is not the word - They can't do anything right. They appoint a manger who has 2 months coaching experience at walsall for gods sake but that another days work!! Grass Roots is a joke. look how great schoolboy clubs like Fettercairn (produced Keane & Jason Gavin) have diminshed
They dont give a damn about the fans. we're only numbers. it's more cost effective to sell 70,000 to 10,000 customers than to 20/30,000 customers so that's why they're doing what they're doing. How can they justify giving 9 tickets to one person - is he related to someone in the FAI?

You have a choice not to support this joke by not buying FAI related merchandise and match tickets.

PRman

Raskolnikov wrote:

You have a choice not to support this joke by not buying FAI related merchandise and match tickets.

Obviously. I'm a fan of the Ireland football team- not a fan of the FAI. Delaney is living on borrowed time...

Loadedscream

PRman wrote:

is he related to someone in the FAI?

not in any way...ordinary joe...went for lower hogan/cusack...reckon thats what got them for him...less demand for the €70 tickets

Raskolnikov

PRman wrote:

Obviously. I'm a fan of the Ireland football team- not a fan of the FAI. Delaney is living on borrowed time...

Well let them stuff their crappy overpriced jerseys and match tickets then.

Collie D

You seem o be over-reacting a bit. It looks like we all got the same letter inviting us to "apply" for tickets. When the application was successful, some of us got a follow-up letter saying we had x amount of tickets, please send cheque etc.

I understand some disappointment at not getting tickets but relax a little. I would hate to see you being turned down for an interview

therecklessone

PRman wrote:

By the way I rang the FAI and they said the reason why people below me on the list had got tickets was because they applied for 70 euro tickets. Would you agree bluetonic that I should have been given 1st refusal on these?

Can I get this straightened?

You applied for cheaper tickets (less than €70), you were unsuccessful because there was more demand for the cheaper tickets. People who applied after you were successful, because they applied for more expensive tickets for which there was less demand?

You'd have a point if they got tickets in the section you applied for, otherwise that's how it should be.

Bluetonic

PRman wrote:

Do you work for the FAI Bluetonic?

PRman wrote:

How can they justify giving 9 tickets to one person - is he related to someone in the FAI?

Can a mod please move this to the Conspiracy Theories forum.

SectionF

Widening this slightly...
There needs to be a debate on how people qualify for international tickets (assuming that demand stays ahead of supply). Having the money, and getting in first, should not be enough.
There is a strong case to be made that those who support Irish club football should have a better chance of obtaining tickets. Policy here will be a litmus test of the FAI's commitment to the domestic game, now that it is responsible for the league.

PRman

At the end of the day they should have facilitated everyone who they 'offered to apply for tickets' with at least two tickets. The bloke I spoke to in the FAI had the decency to admit that himself. I disagree with you reckles - people higher up on the waiting list should have been given first refusal on the lower tier tickets if the upper tier were unavailable. Again Bluetonic, your opinion would be different if you hadn't have got tickets. Matter closed.

Kinetic^

This is the exact same thing that the people who joined the IRFU supporters club who were looking for six nations tickets :rolleyes: You weren't guaranteed a ticket.......you were told you may have a chance of getting one.....how clear do you need it to be?

PRman

Couldn't agree more with you sectionf - I play junior football and our club doesn't get a sniff of tickets. I think our entire league only gets 30-40 tickets. The league of Ireland fans who travel the country to support the league should get first refusal - then the junior leagues

Bluetonic

What a load of Rubbish. There already is a system in place to obtain tickets it is just heavily subscribed. People have joined this system since the 1980s and they were offered the facility to obtain more tickets and rightly so, a lot of these block bookers have been trying for years to increase their ticket allocation. These are people who have spent large sums of money going to meaningless friendlies for years.

Judging by the number the OP is on the waiting list he joined the waiting list 6 months ago and is now kicking up a fuss. Can I ask why you've not been on the waiting list until now?

Fair play to the FAI for looking after their long standing fans (customers).

CiaranC

Exactly, the OP has had 25 years or so to organise tickets under the current system.

Noelie

PRman wrote:

it's more cost effective to sell 70,000 to 10,000 customers than to 20/30,000 customers so that's why they're doing what they're doing. How can they justify giving 9 tickets to one person - is he related to someone in the FAI?

I know one guy who got over 200 tickets, another guy who sorted out a lot of people too but don't know how many exactly.

Like has been said before, people who bought tickets in the past will be offered more tickets for the upcoming games. they are showing loyalty to customers who have already bought a lot of tickets in the past.

I think your just bitter that you didn't get tickets.

event

Bluetonic wrote:

What a load of Rubbish. There already is a system in place to obtain tickets it is just heavily subscribed. People have joined this system since the 1980s and they were offered the facility to obtain more tickets and rightly so, a lot of these block bookers have been trying for years to increase their ticket allocation. These are people who have spent large sums of money going to meaningless friendlies for years.

Judging by the number the OP is on the waiting list he joined the waiting list 6 months ago and is now kicking up a fuss. Can I ask why you've not been on the waiting list until now?

Fair play to the FAI for looking after their long standing fans (customers).

Croke Park

Bluetonic

event wrote:

Croke Park

Not too sure if you are talking for the OP now but if so in effect you are confirming that they are just jumping on the Croke Park bandwagon.

Enough said.

event

Bluetonic wrote:

Not too sure if you are talking for the OP now but if so in effect you are confirming that they are just jumping on the Croke Park bandwagon.

Enough said.

IMO, a lot of people just want tickets now that the games are in croker

eirebhoy

event wrote:

IMO, a lot of people just want tickets now that the games are in croker

I doubt it. There's 5,000 on the waiting list which has been going a long time now.

Bluetonic

eirebhoy wrote:

I doubt it. There's 5,000 on the waiting list which has been going a long time now.

As of March 2006 there were approx 1,600 on the waiting list, I can confirm this as I know someone added at approx this number at this time (not me)

The waiting list is now suspended at 6,000 approx.

That tells it's own story I'd say.

Raytown Rocks

I think there are different reasons why the list has expanded.
The main reason being Croke park, but not all people are going just because its Croke park, but beacuse there is/was extra seat availability.
Its fairly obvious when an 80,000 seater stadium becomes available, more seats will be available and hence the FAI increased the size of the waiting list.

I personally put myself on the list for a few reasons.
1. I obviously wanted tickets to all home games ( Croke park)
2. Was hoping once I was on the list I might get tickets for the 4 home games this year, and going forward, but also I was hoping that when the new Lansdowne Road is complete( holds breath), I would be in a position to get tickets for there, ( actually suites me better as I live beside it).
3. I am a soccer fan.

PRman

Great to see so much interest in this thread. Don't talk crap Kenny - there is a big difference between joining a supporters club in the hope of getting tickets and actually being sent a letter 'offering' you tickets.

I have no problem with the FAI looking after old customers but they didn't have to give them 9 tickets - 3 or 4 is plenty for one customer. Bluetonic I have been going to Ireland matches since 1989 when my Dad lifted me over the turnstile to see Irl v Spain. The FAI website has only had transparent information about applying for it's block booking scheme on it's website since last year which is when I applied. This is the main reason numbers have increased - not Croke Park. I used to and usually do get my tickets from a variety of sources including Shels but this was always on game-by-game basis. I agree there will be people jumping on the Croke Park bandwagon but these will be the people who will have availed of the 8th or 9th spare ticket of the blockbookers or prawn sandwiches or whoever. C'est la vie.

Benedict XVI

chef wrote:

I think there are different reasons why the list has expanded.
The main reason being Croke park, but not all people are going just because its Croke park, but beacuse there is/was extra seat availability.
Its fairly obvious whan an 80,000 seater stadium becomes available, more seats will be available and hence the FAI increased the size of the waiting list.

I personally put myself on the list for a few reasons.
1. I obviously wanted tickets to all home games ( Croke park)
2. Was hoping once I was on the list I might get tickets for the 4 home games this year, and going forward, but also I was hoping that when the new Lansdowne Road is complete( holds breath), I would be in a position to get tickets for there, ( actually suites me better as I live beside it).
3. I am a soccer fan.

Watch out Chef, expect a barrage of abuse from the 'Real Fans' because of your 'prawn sandwich brigade' type behaviors as you stated above.

It should go something like this.

Only putting your self on the waiting list now that games are in CP - where were you in 1987 with the 15k real fans against Brazil, why did you not apply for BB tickets before Charlton first game in 1986

Or was the old Lansdowne not good enough for you, not plush enough ?.

You Chef are a filth bandwagon jumper, its people like you that PRMan and the other Real Fans hate. It's people like you that are destroying Irish football. I hope you enjoy your prawn sandwiches, don’t choke on them.

~Rebel~

PRman wrote:

At the end of the day they should have facilitated everyone who they 'offered to apply for tickets' with at least two tickets.

From a sales point of view this simply wouldn't make any sense. There would obviously be a limit on the number of these letters that would be sent out, as if more then the limit of seating at 2 or 4 tickets per head were sent out we're back where you started. So the first problem is, how do you decide to send one to one person who isn't already on the waiting list and not to another? You may have never even gotten your offer in the first place! Also if they were to limit the number they send out, some wouldnt be purchased so then they have the logistical problem of again deciding exactly how many need to be sent out now for the exact number of spots, so that noone would get a letter and not get tickets. This procedure would probably have to be repeated many many times till they exactly filled the quota without ever having someone receive your letter and not get tickets. It Just Doesn't Make Sense.

So instead they send out offers on mass and whoever replies first gets the tickets. Far simpler and easier.

The only gripe you can have is that the Header on the letter was misleading. but this was clarified later in the letter anyway.

With regards to the old timers being able to book up to 200 tickets :eek: i do agree some limit should be set. Again though they have a choice to make here. They can give everyone the same limit, of say, 2 or 4 each regardless who you are, which is ok, but instead they opted to reward the people who have truly been supporting the country for years at every match, which i heartily agree with. I do think they should still have a limit as letting someone have 200 is ridiculous.

eirebhoy

Bluetonic wrote:

As of March 2006 there were approx 1,600 on the waiting list, I can confirm this as I know someone added at approx this number at this time (not me)

The waiting list is now suspended at 6,000 approx.

That tells it's own story I'd say.

Yeah, very few knew about the waiting list until the FAI put something up on their website last year. I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that they're playing in a historic, top class stadium. If that's what you mean? The new 50,000 Lansdowne certainly won't meet demand.

Raytown Rocks

Benedict XVI wrote:

Watch out Chef, expect a barrage of abuse from the 'Real Fans' because of your 'prawn sandwich brigade' type behaviors as you stated above.

It should go something like this.

Only putting your self on the waiting list now that games are in CP - where were you in 1987 with the 15k real fans against Brazil, why did you not apply for BB tickets before Charlton first game in 1986

Or was the old Lansdowne not good enough for you, not plush enough ?.

You Chef are a filth bandwagon jumper, its people like you that PRMan and the other Real Fans hate. It's people like you that are destroying Irish football. I hope you enjoy your prawn sandwiches, don’t choke on them.

Benedict XVI


In reply to what might be said and to answer those possible questions..

Yes only on the waiting list about a year, we all have to start somewhere plus thats when I first heard about the waiting list.

In 1987 I was 16 and to be honest, money was a problem IE : I was still at school....
As for waiting for the "new" Lansdowne..... Just beacuse I am hoping to be on the list going forward doesnt mean I didnt frequent the "old" Lansdowne Road.
far from it, have been there far too many times to remember.
As for prawn sandwiches...I think not, I will have a hot dog or burger like the rest of you.
But hey I gave my Intentions going forward as to why I wanted tickets, I didnt give a history of chef and Irish football story, thats for a different thread.:)

Benedict XVI

I am aware that this is going a little off topic but ….

Chef wrote:

we all have to start somewhere

Goodman Chef, we do all have to start somewhere and that's what a great number of people can’t understand.
If you go looking for a ticket to a game you are asked where were you until then, what took you so long etc.
You are accused of jumping on a bandwagon or being a ‘prawn sandwich’, or worse still ‘a suit’

I have only been attending games since 2002; I am guaranteed tickets to all home games (and go to 95% of them) and have no problem getting tickets to away games if I go to them. Some people might see me as a ‘prawn sandwich’, but I enjoy the games and know what going on so that’s their problem.

On the main topic – PRman, hard luck not getting a ticket, but nothing was guaranteed so that’s just the way things go.

Raytown Rocks

Benedict XVI wrote:

I am aware that this is going a little off topic but ….



Goodman Chef, we do all have to start somewhere and that's what a great number of people can’t understand.
If you go looking for a ticket to a game you are asked where were you until then, what took you so long etc.
You are accused of jumping on a bandwagon or being a ‘prawn sandwich’, or worse still ‘a suit’

I have only been attending games since 2002; I am guaranteed tickets to all home games (and go to 95% of them) and have no problem getting tickets to away games if I go to them. Some people might see me as a ‘prawn sandwich’, but I enjoy the games and know what going on so that’s their problem.

On the main topic – PRman, hard luck not getting a ticket, but nothing was guaranteed so that’s just the way things go.

Benedict XVI,Glad your sorted, and Glad to see you get to as many games as possible, thats what I like to see.
Yeah you will always have the "where were you till now" questions, but thats to be expected, and its water off a ducks arse to be honest.
Fairplay, I am glad you enjoy the games, fcuk the begrudgers...

And PRman I am on our side by the way, as already stated I too was gutted.
Ah well, hope the TV coverage is good in the Future.

Very off Topic, was in Croke Park last Saturday...it was Class.
Very Very off Topic, was in Croke Park for Dublin v Tyrone with my 2 Daughters ( 11 and 7, thats their ages not their names btw ) and it was class too.

PRman

~Rebel~ wrote:

From a sales point of view this simply wouldn't make any sense.

Rebel, I can tell you for a fact there are software packages and mathematical formulas that can do this very easily so there really was no excuse for messing it up. The bloke in the FAI ADMITTED that is was THEIR INTENTION to cater for all people who received the letter and he said they still hope to do so so fingers crossed. They got their sums wrong but the Dept of Finance do this as an annual event so I suppose I can forgive them. I should hope you know what's going on Benny if your going to the games since 2002!!!
Cheers Chef - Croker is the biz under lights (was at Dubs v Tyrone) and hopefully the players can respond. we need 2 wins or we're out....