Championship run-in tightest in years

Kingp35

Chucky the tree wrote:

Most people support a team from about 10 or so. Not from there mid 20's.

I agree with this. Im giving out about 20 and 30 something guys who already support a team sudden,y jumping on the Sunderland bandwagon purely because of the Irish connection. Thats what annoys me. I would not call somebody who jumps on a band wagon at the age of 25 a proper fan of a club.

With regards Celtic, people generally start supporting them as kids. Personally I dont like people who change their support from one team to another. There is no way a real fan would even contemplate supporting another team.

chump

What's wrong with punters getting behind their countrymen and supporting them?

I don't understand how that would offend you in the slightest.

leninbenjamin

chump wrote:

What's wrong with punters getting behind their countrymen and supporting them?

I don't understand how that would offend you in the slightest.

what he said. any leeds fans i know personally started supporting them due to the Irish connections, and all have stuck with them despite relegation. it doesn't matter how fans are made, doesn't make them any less of a fan.

and i've been following Sunderland recently meself, and want them to do well because of the Irish connections solely. shoot me if this is a crime. I don't know of any other reason an Irish person would want to support an English team, very few of us have connections with English teams otherwise.

Chucky the tree

leninbenjamin wrote:

what he said. any leeds fans i know personally started supporting them due to the Irish connections, and all have stuck with them despite relegation. it doesn't matter how fans are made, doesn't make them any less of a fan.

and i've been following Sunderland recently meself, and want them to do well because of the Irish connections solely. shoot me if this is a crime. I don't know of any other reason an Irish person would want to support an English team, very few of us have connections with English teams otherwise.

So you want to see liverpool do well because of steve finnan? Most of the new sunderland fans wouldnt have a clue who plays for them apart from the irish players. They look at the paper and see the results and suddenly think they are the expert of things sunderland and championship.

GuanYin

Chucky the tree wrote:

So you want to see liverpool do well because of steve finnan?

Personally I like to hear Finnan had a good game. I like to hear Irish people doing well in general. Whats the problem?

Most of the new sunderland fans wouldnt have a clue who plays for them apart from the irish players. They look at the paper and see the results and suddenly think they are the expert of things sunderland and championship.

Holy clueless, generalised opinion without any basis in fact or reality, Batman!

leninbenjamin

Chucky the tree wrote:

So you want to see liverpool do well because of steve finnan?

umm... did i not imply that already?

Chucky the tree wrote:

Most of the new sunderland fans wouldnt have a clue who plays for them apart from the irish players. They look at the paper and see the results and suddenly think they are the expert of things sunderland and championship.

and so every single leeds, watford, liverpool, united (etc.) fans know every single player right down to the reserves? gimme a break. Quinn's entire gameplan has been to drum up support for Sunderland based on the Irish connections, and it's been very successful so far. and like no supporters are ever gained by jumping on the bandwagon? you guys shouldn't be just giving out about Sunderland, you should be giving out about United, Liverpool, Leeds, blackburn, chelsea and every other team that's ever won something....

Irish people like Soccer. Irish people like to watch English Soccer. Irish people like to follow teams, yet most don't have any proper connections to an English team so most fans are made from jumping on a bandwagon or by liking individual players (i remember this myself from primary school when most of the classmates chose their team). If you don't like it, then tough, live with it.

Kingp35

leninbenjamin wrote:

and so every single leeds, watford, liverpool, united (etc.) fans know every single player right down to the reserves? gimme a break.

Eh Yeah I could name you the entire Leeds squad including reserves, I would find it very strange if a fan couldnt name every player bar one or two kids in the squad.

leninbenjamin wrote:

you guys shouldn't be just giving out about Sunderland, you should be giving out about United, Liverpool, Leeds, blackburn, chelsea and every other team that's ever won something....

Sunderland haven't won anything, thats not the reason people are talking about them. What im sick of is casual football fans harping on about Sunderland as if everybody in Ireland is now a Sunderland fan. When I say I dont give a crap about Sunderland they look at you as if you have two heads. Its almost like they are the second national team or something. Drives me mad.

psi wrote:

Personally I like to hear Finnan had a good game. I like to hear Irish people doing well in general. Whats the problem?

I also like to hear that an Irish player has had a good game because its good for the national team, however that doesnt mean that I want the team that they play for to do well. Im happy to see Nick Colgan do well for Southend but I definitely dont want to see them win.

BaZmO*

Kingp35 wrote:

I also like to hear that an Irish player has had a good game because its good for the national team, however that doesnt mean that I want the team that they play for to do well.

That's a fair enough point if a team only has 1 Irish player but if the team has quite a few is it not contradictory to say that you want the individual players to do well but you don't want the team to do well? Surely they go hand in hand.

Chucky the tree

leninbenjamin wrote:

and so every single leeds, watford, liverpool, united (etc.) fans know every single player right down to the reserves? gimme a break.

What kind of fan couldnt name his teams squad?! :eek:

Also, all the new sunderland fans cant even name the regular starting 11 let alone the squad.

leninbenjamin wrote:

Irish people like Soccer. Irish people like to watch English Soccer. Irish people like to follow teams, yet most don't have any proper connections to an English team so most fans are made from jumping on a bandwagon or by liking individual players (i remember this myself from primary school when most of the classmates chose their team). If you don't like it, then tough, live with it.

I am living with it, but i am also entitled to have a moan about how pathetic the new found sunderland fans are. If there going to follow a new team, at least try and learn who plays regularly apart from the irish lads.

GuanYin

Chucky the tree wrote:

Also, all the new sunderland fans cant even name the regular starting 11 let alone the squad.

Perhaps because Keane doesn't have a regular starting 11. He hasn't sent out the same starting 11 in consecutive games since he took control.

Chucky the tree

psi wrote:

Perhaps because Keane doesn't have a regular starting 11. He hasn't sent out the same starting 11 in consecutive games since he took control.

He has a regular spine of the team though. Nosworthy, collins, Yorke, Connolly, whitehead, miller, edwards.

GuanYin

Chucky the tree wrote:

He has a regular spine of the team though. Nosworthy, collins, Yorke, Connolly, whitehead, miller, edwards.

Nope, Connolly, Yorke, Miller and Whitehead are regularly rotated or rested by Keane when fit. Evans, Nosworthy and Ward are the only players that seem to always play when fit.

leninbenjamin

Chucky the tree wrote:

What kind of fan couldnt name his teams squad?! :eek:

meh... wasn't the brightest thing to have said still, I know a few fans who consider themselves lifelong supporters of a club who'd be unable to name all the reserves. doesn't make them any less of a fan to me, they still want to see their club do well. Besides just because you don't know everything doesn't mean you can't follow their progress and want to see them do well...

passive fans are just as important to a club as lifelong borderline OCD fans. they still spend money on the club now and again, open up new markets and new fanbases. some of these new followers of sunderland will lose interest after a while, some will stick with them for life.

i personally think people like yourselves should be encouraging these guys to take up a more active interest, rather than being disparaging about them. Surely new fans are a good thing and something all loyal followers of the game would want to encourage???

PHB

I think everybody wants to see teams do well if they have players they like it in, and if there are Irish players, we are more likely to like them

Personally I let off a small smile when Essien scored, cause I really like him and Shevchenko.
Just like I was happy to see Liverpool score against PSV when Finnan set up the cross.
Just like I love watching Real Madrid play because I love watching Beckham and Ruud play.

It's always the same.
Now I like to follow how Sunderland are doing because I really like Keane, and I really hope he makes it as a top class manager.

LuckyLloyd

People seem to have short memories. There was a surge of interest in Sunderland's fortunes back during the 2003 / 2004 and 2004 / 2005 seasons when they were in Division One under McCarthy and had McAteer, Healy (when fit), Babb, Breen, Thornton and later Elliot starting regularly. The first season they got to the FA Cup Semis and lost in penalties in the playoffs to Palace. The following season they ran out comfortable champions.

The interest waned a bit in the Premiership - partly because they were rubbish (people like winners), partly because there were less Irish players involved in the starting XI. Exit McCarthy, enter Quinn and Keane - along with Miller, Kavanagh, Stokes etc.

Therefore, I would say that there has been a certain level of interest in Sunderland going back a number of seasons now. It may be currently at it's highest pitch - but uit has been there.

I personally don't see too much wrong with it tbh. It is inevitable that people wish the best for a club that is being looked after by two great former Irish Internationals. And they are winning. And, like I said, people like winners.

There is a reality that a huge percentage of contemporary football fans are not of the "diehard" variety. They don't make regular trips to watch their teams play home games across the water. They don't make huge financial sacrifices to follow their teams on European trips etc. They won't stick it through watching them when they are on a downswing of losing games. They don't know the names of the 20 - 30 Senior players at the club or the relative attributes of each player. They will be uncertain of the club's footballing history. They won't watch lower league games or have an extensive overall knowledge of the game.

We who bother posting on football forums are the knowlegable and caring minority. We also think that we know more about the game than we actually do. Although most people who watch the odd match consider themselves to be quasi - experts and have an opinion that is important. Anyone who has ever called a professional footballer who is making a living out of the game at the league two level or above "sh!te" probably knows an awful lot less about the game than he can ever comprehend.

But, these guys inject revenue into the game and feed the reason for why we can watch more Championship games than ever before, and have access to a greater range of media information on the game than ever before. Let them knock themselves out I say.

thebaz

PHB wrote:

I think everybody wants to see teams do well if they have players they like it in, and if there are Irish players, we are more likely to like them

Now I like to follow how Sunderland are doing because I really like Keane, and I really hope he makes it as a top class manager.

Here here , besides my dad is a genuine long term Sunderland fan , -- kids growing up now in Ireland choose, from 4 Premiership teams to support -- no harm in adding an extra one , that has a genuine Irish connection .

Gillie

I don't follow any one team in the Premiership or the Championship.
I would like to see Chelsea do well this year and think Arsenal will do well next year. I like watching Reading and Spurs too. What's that got to do with Irish players? There are a couple at reading and spurs but that's not why I would watch their matches!

I am a FOOTBALL fan. At present I watch Sunderland when i can. Why? Because of the way the club has turned it's fortunes around!
I am also a big admirier of Keane and was very interested to see how he'd do in management.
The greatest stories in football are the rags to riches ones. When the underdogs win. That's what I love to watch. That's what makes it exciting!

I make no apologies for it.

Kingp35

Gillie wrote:

The greatest stories in football are the rags to riches ones. When the underdogs win. That's what I love to watch. That's what makes it exciting!

I agree, this doesnt have anything to do with sunderland though because certainly are no rags to riches story (not sure if meant that comment to be about Sunderland.

Your different Gillie, by your own admission your not a fan of any club. Im giving about people who are fans of a club but still go on about Sunderland all the time.

astrofool

Riches to Rags stories are also interesting e.g. Forest/Leeds

Kingp35

astrofool wrote:

Riches to Rags stories are also interesting e.g. Forest/Leeds

Leeds were never rich to begin with.

leninbenjamin

Kingp35 wrote:

Leeds were never rich to begin with.

well they sure fooled everyone didn't they?

Necronomicon

I love the Championship, and while I don't follow any particular team, as a United fan I'm happy to see Keane do so well.
I generally like to see clubs who have fallen big-time do well, like Derby have done this season, and Forest in League 1. Maybe it's a nostalgic thing!

Kingp35

leninbenjamin wrote:

well they sure fooled everyone didn't they?

Sure did, especially us Leeds fans. Supporters club etc were worried about where all this money was coming from but the club wouldnt tell us until it was too late. Anyway thats a bit off topic.

Gillie

Kingp35 wrote:

I agree, this doesnt have anything to do with sunderland though because certainly are no rags to riches story (not sure if meant that comment to be about Sunderland.

Your different Gillie, by your own admission your not a fan of any club. Im giving about people who are fans of a club but still go on about Sunderland all the time.

I didn't really mean it literally and I take your point.
My father would be an Aston Villa fan but follows ALL the Irish who play across the water. It's just his thing. It's handy during Internationals coz he can tell me about players that i've never heard of!

I find that there was a big increase in Arsenal & Chelsea fans in the last few years. They seem to be springing up everywhere! Simply following success? Or Jumping on Badwagons? There's very little difference.

Bottom line is I don't really care who someone supports as long as they are happy!

If they are supporting them for the wrong reasons or not a true fan they'll be found out down the pub!;)

GuanYin

Forest were successful, but never rich!

Chucky the tree

psi wrote:

Nope, Connolly, Yorke, Miller and Whitehead are regularly rotated or rested by Keane when fit. Evans, Nosworthy and Ward are the only players that seem to always play when fit.

Miller has played in 26 league games out of 42 sunderland have played. They had played 5 games before he was signed. So he has been missing for 10 games. Hes been suspended for three games i think, so that leaves 7 he was out of. I dont know if he has been injuried for any, but thats pretty regular in my book.


Yorke has played in 25 matches so far. He missed the first 5 aswell. Think he might of had 1 suspension, not sure about injuries. Not too bad.

Connolly has played in 27 league matches and also missed the first 5. 10 games he hasnt featured in, quite good going.


Whitehead, eh hes played in 41 games this season.

GuanYin

Chucky the tree wrote:

Miller has played in 26 league games out of 42 sunderland have played. They had played 5 games before he was signed. So he has been missing for 10 games. Hes been suspended for three games i think, so that leaves 7 he was out of. I dont know if he has been injuried for any, but thats pretty regular in my book.


Yorke has played in 25 matches so far. He missed the first 5 aswell. Think he might of had 1 suspension, not sure about injuries. Not too bad.

Connolly has played in 27 league matches and also missed the first 5. 10 games he hasnt featured in, quite good going.


Whitehead, eh hes played in 41 games this season.

From SAFC.com Link

Miller 24 starts out of possible 38

Yorke 25 starts out of 38

Connolly 28 out of 38

Whitehead 41/42

Fair enough on whitehead, I actually confused him with Leadbitter but the other players have played roughly 60-70% of the games. It seems only 3-4 players are cert starters on a Saturday.

Sunderland have rotated without need and the players don't always play in the same positions or the same roles. Miller and Yorke have played the same role and partnered each other through out the season. Connolly was employed on the wing and deep once or twice.

Sunderland have such a large squad that they can rotate and cope with injuries quite well. Much like the United team of 00-02.

The fact remains, they still don't have a set starting 11 and haven't since Keane took over.

leninbenjamin

psi wrote:

The fact remains, they still don't have a set starting 11 and haven't since Keane took over.

doesn't seem to be affecting the results though, as you might expect.

yabadabado

sunderland 4pts clear must be certs now for automatic promotion now they have a much better goal difference than derby.think they have the easier run in compared to birmingham and derby

mike65

Tighter than a ducks arse for the play off positions

Sunderland__43__25____82
Derby______43___15___78

Birmingham__42__22____77
Preston_____43__13____71
West Brom__43__19____ 70
Wolves_____43__-1____ 70

Stoke______43___19___68
Soton______43___19___ 66
Colchester__43___16___ 66
Sheff Wed__43____4___ 65

Mike.

PHB

It's looking very tight now,

but I think Derby will come back into the top 2.
Sunderland and Derby have easy games, 3 games they really should win.
Brum on the other hand have two very tough games, against Wolves and Preston, both fighting for promotion. I can see them losing one of those games.

Pighead

PHB wrote:

It's looking very tight now,

but I think Derby will come back into the top 2.
Sunderland and Derby have easy games, 3 games they really should win.
Brum on the other hand have two very tough games, against Wolves and Preston, both fighting for promotion. I can see them losing one of those games.

It could be argued that Derbys last 3 games were "easy" also. Picking up just 2 points from games against Leicester, Ipswich and Coventry is pretty poor form at this crucial stage of the season. They'd want to sort themselves out sharpish and get their winning boots back on.

PHB

Derby get 3 huge points against Luton, really putting the pressure on Brum against Wolves on Sunday.

There's some great stuff done by Billy Davis, who was whistling himself at the end of the match for the ref to blow the whistle

GuanYin

PHB wrote:

Derby get 3 huge points against Luton, really putting the pressure on Brum against Wolves on Sunday.

How poetic would it be if a McCarthy led Wolves was a pivitol step in Sunderland's promotion.

There's some great stuff done by Billy Davis, who was whistling himself at the end of the match for the ref to blow the whistle

I hope they do well, I fancy them more than Birmingham and Davis has taken an awful lot of unwarrented stick. Lets hope he can put the Billy The Bottler tag to rest.

mike65

Luton are down after that. Can Leeds survive and if so will it mark the start of a turnaround?

Mike.

MisterAnarchy

I'd like to see Derby promoted automatically.
They are a big club with a great history and they have done well to come back from the brink of bankruptcy.

PHB

They also play great football.
I don't think they have actually learnt how to defend yet, just attack, so it's great to watch.
They are also a team who have invested heavily in youth talent, with players like Jones, Barnes, and Lupoli core to their squad, so I hope they do well

Kingp35

mike65 wrote:

Luton are down after that. Can Leeds survive and if so will it mark the start of a turnaround?

Mike.

There is no doubt that we can survive. One defeat in our last 9 games and that was against Colchester where we threw it away in the last 5 minutes. We need to pick up points against Southampton today or against Derby on the last day but its gonna be tough because they are both away games. If Saints dont beat us today then their play-off hopes are gone. The home game against Ipswich is a must win for me.

Personally I think it will all come down to the last day of the season. I'm hoping that Derby will have already been promoted at that stage and will rest a few players with the play-offs in mind.

Chucky the tree

Interesting results. Sunderland beaten 3-1 by Colchester, not a big suprise though. It will be between them and Derby for top spot.

Leeds in trouble. Hull drawing, Leicester won. Promotion still are too play for with Stoke dre, Prston losing, southampton won. Wednesday and colchester now in with great chances of making it after 2 wins.

Necronomicon

Colchester have a great home record, when was the last time a team made it double promotions from League 1 (or division 2 at the time) to the Premiership?

mike65

Pity Sunderland forgot they are Champions Elect. More pressure on Wolves to beat Brum tomorrow now.

Mike.

A Dub in Glasgo

Chucky the tree wrote:

It will be between them and Derby for top spot.

Birmingham can go top tomorrow so I don't know why you discount them

Chucky the tree

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Birmingham can go top tomorrow so I don't know why you discount them

Runs in too difficult i think.

acquiescefc

Chucky the tree wrote:

Interesting results. Sunderland beaten 3-1 by Colchester, not a big suprise though. It will be between them and Derby for top spot.

Leeds in trouble. Hull drawing, Leicester won. Promotion still are too play for with Stoke dre, Prston losing, southampton won. Wednesday and colchester now in with great chances of making it after 2 wins.

Make that 5 wins in a row for the Wednesday :D

I cant believe after Januarys freefall that we have an outside chance of going to wembley(again). Only problem is with Turner going back to Everton we are back to our goalkeepinh problems.

Thankyou Hull City for that 92nd min goal, a lot of people prayed for that.

See you around Leeds, say hi to the king Sturrock for us.

Royale with Cheese

Birmingham getting dicked on by Wolves here, goalkeeper is keeping them in the game. Cracking game 0-0 so far

PHB

Wolves are winning 2-1 now.

KdjaCL

acquiescefc wrote:

I cant believe after Januarys freefall that we have an outside chance of going to wembley(again). Only problem is with Turner going back to Everton we are back to our goalkeepinh problems.

.

You have Adamson .....lol



kdjac

Royale with Cheese

2-2 now. Great game. Birmingham will go second on goal difference if it stays like this.

3greenrizla's

2 - 2 now.

Saints fans are watching this one with interest.

http://www.thesaintsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=16039&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=50

Woot for brum.

mike65

C'mon Wolves.

Mike.