Celtic V Rangers

odonnell

Im not sure this is tradition here but I thought would stick this up for all discussion on the upcoming old-firm match.

Sunday, 11 March 2007

Bank of Scotland Scottish Premier League
Celtic v Rangers, 12:30

[mon the gers ]

smashey

odonnell wrote:

[mon the gers ]

/sits back and awaits the backlash.

Well, I never. A Rangers fan named O'Donnell.:D

Aren't these games losing their meaning in that they meet so often nowadays?

patmac

Vital Match, victory for Rangers would cut the deficit to 16 points and delay Celtic being crowned champions by say about 2 weeks. Must be the 50th most important match this week worthy of a thread of its own.:rolleyes:

odonnell

ah these matches NEVER get boring mate... never never never... and I dont remember ever missing one either - back home they are somewhat of a national event. Thats why i posted this, I wanted to see what the response is like here for these matches... it may not be league defining this season but the event itself is huge for any Celtic or Rangers fan.

thus i thought id start the thread.

I think itll be a massive game this weekend for a few reasons.

1) its an old firm derby - neither team nor the fans ever take this one lightly.
2) Its Walter Smith back in charge of the gers against a manager hes not come up against since his time at Everton. Since Walter left, Rangers have been sporadically successful against Celtic at best.
3) Whilst it may be irrelevant in terms of league points tally, its relevant in terms of The state of things to come. Walter Smith set rangers a target of ending the season having scored more points than anyone else, as a measurement for how well the team could perform next season - currently Celtic have scored 2pts more so... this weekend will be used as a good indicator for next season.


Also - both managers will want to use this as a sizing up exercise. Im sure Strachan will want to know whether or not he has to be wary of Rangers next season under Smith, and this is the test. Rangers are playing well, with a solid defense, and Celtic are ALWAYS solid, but lacking penetration.... both teams have evened up in terms of physical presense in the last 3 months so... thisll make it a different sort of match to those gone before.

Its an important game this.

hawker

It's not often I agree with a Rangers fan, but odonnell is correct for all of the above reasons.

You forgot to factor in Ally McCoist being on the sideline.

odonnell

hawker wrote:

It's not often I agree with a Rangers fan, but odonnell is correct for all of the above reasons.

You forgot to factor in Ally McCoist being on the sideline.

Oh feck aye.... couldnt be forgetting 'super' now... but in honesty - id prefer him to start the game than kris boyd.

bucks73

Im sure all celtic fans would prefer him to be starting the game rather than Boyd. After all...how old is he now?

odonnell

reckon hes about 43 now mate but apparently he hasnt lost his scoring touch - they hold regluar old firm charity games with all the old players and coisty ALWAYS scores. Ok fair play hes playing against people who are now more out of shape than he is but hey, that doesnae matter!

Hes probably going to do wonders for boyd in the long term, but boyd just cant score against celtic.

patmac

Off topic (apologies) would be interested to know what the general consensus amongst Rangers fans about tonight's game (and vice versa for Ranger's Uefa cup campaign). Bearing in mind a positive result for Celtic (or Rangers) would improve Scotland's co-efficient and make qualification for next years champion's league easier.

eirebhoy

The vast majority of Celtic/Rangers fans want their opposite to fail in Europe. tbh I don't. It wouldn't be very satisfying to be the only half decent team in a league. I care more about the reputation of the SPL than the misery of Rangers supporters. I know if I lived in Glasgow I'd have a different view but I don't.

[Jackass]

Sorry, we're pre-occupied with AC Milan in the champions League knock out stages...we'll get back to you about the league we've already wrapped up after...sing when you're winning hehehe

odonnell

too right an all...same no matter which side your on although ill say this - my mates back home (majority of which are celtic fans) seem unaware that Rangers actually got through to the quarters last season...seemingly, celtic are the only team ever to have played in the champions league....EVER! ANYWHERE! hehe

This is a wee window into the mentality in Glasgow though for those that want to know if we will be backing the 'other' team in europe this season. Its really not something any of us could comprehend i feel, as to wish success to the other team usually means wishing for the continued demise of your own - such is the fine balance between the two teams.

For Celtic to continue their good champions league run will mean they have a LOT more cash for next season, and whilst they may make £20m from this run, as Rangers did last season...the difference in turnover between the two will be far greater, as Rangers will make a loss as a direct result of NO champions league football. So take that £20m, and add another £20m or so, and thatll be the gap between the two teams revenue for next season.

The same is true for both teams when the roles are switched so... you can see why youll rarely find a celtic or rangers fan (who knows anything about the game there) backing the other team in europe.

All this being said though, all fans - celtic and rangers, can testify to NEVER seeing any of that cash go into their team in a big way. Where did all that money go from the champs league run last season? I wonder how much Celtic will see of it next season....

eirebhoy

patmac wrote:

Off topic (apologies) would be interested to know what the general consensus amongst Rangers fans about tonight's game (and vice versa for Ranger's Uefa cup campaign). Bearing in mind a positive result for Celtic (or Rangers) would improve Scotland's co-efficient and make qualification for next years champion's league easier.

I opened a thread on this on a Celtic forum and as expected, out of the 30 replies everyone wants Rangers to lose on Thursday. I'd prefer the SPL to actually have a decent reputation over anything. Stop people saying Aberdeen would be a midtable LOI team after Bohs outplayed them in a friendly.:D

odonnell

ah friendlies mean nothing and people should realise that though mate. Aberdeen in a cup game circumstance would probably outplay any team in Ireland. The level they raise their game to against Rangers and Celtic is unbelievable and they have that reputation in Scotland as being the place nobody wants to go (not aberdeen, im sure its lovely as a visit but yous know what i mean).

Besides... whilst i and probably many many people realise what it would do for Scottish football to have both teams in the final stages - its just too much of a bridge too far to route for the other one given whats at stake for the coming season you know? Simple as that i reckon.... or it is for me anyway. Im already afraid of what Strachan will do with his £Xm next season, when Rangers are signing pre season contracts for players worth not more than £250k.

odonnell

More to the point of the thread though - will anyone be watching the game, and...well....can ANYONE suggest ANYWHERE to go watch the game as a gers fan? Long shot i know but what the hell...

Its either that or i stay in as per usual and give the neighbours cause for concern.

eirebhoy

You could probably go to a posh hotel but I'd say the atmosphere would be better in your house.

patmac

odonnell wrote:

More to the point of the thread though - will anyone be watching the game, and...well....can ANYONE suggest ANYWHERE to go watch the game as a gers fan? Long shot i know but what the hell...

Its either that or i stay in as per usual and give the neighbours cause for concern.

Some parts of Glasgow would be ok.

odonnell

how i miss the vicky bar in partick.

A Dub in Glasgo

Quiet buildup to this in Glasgow. Both teams involved in European games this week and Rangers must see their return leg as a higher priority than this althouh Aberdeen are now breathing down their neck for 2nd spot.

county

odonnell wrote:

Im not sure this is tradition here but I thought would stick this up for all discussion on the upcoming old-firm match.

Sunday, 11 March 2007

Bank of Scotland Scottish Premier League
Celtic v Rangers, 12:30

[mon the gers ]

well well,rangers 1 up

county

finished 0-1

gandalf

Watched the start of it, from what I saw before I started watching Chelsea vs Spurs it was a dire match. Nice win for Rangers.

eirebhoy

gandalf wrote:

Watched the start of it, from what I saw before I started watching Chelsea vs Spurs it was a dire match.

I thought the first half was very good. Celtic should have been at least 3-0 up by half time. Kenny Miller's chances are up I'm afraid, 2 or 3 clear cut chances. The run up to Naka's shot was excellent. 16 passes and a shot deflected. Looked like it was heading in. McGeady should have had a clear peno. 2nd half was poor.

odonnell

after thinking of what to say for a while on this i cant really think of much! problem is im damned if i do and damned if i ont so ill just say - im a very happy bear with that win today.

Now...most people who arent out and out fans of either teams wont understand WHY so... ill not bother going into it but basically for the reasons listed in my initial posts above.

Excellent win for the gers at parkhead and with Celtic doing that ALL SEASON remember... i dont feel there was any clear match winning chance for either team. Lets remember before we credit celtic with tonnes of -should-have-been-goals-, that theyve been leaving it until the 89th minute against all teams this season....and gers are only the second team to defeat them, so... enough back patting EB!! hehe

Nah scrappy game, but after the chelsea match started there was some REAL good flowing football from both sides with rangers dominating the second half more or less.

McGeady should have had a penalty its true, but any old firm fan will point out another 5 penalty claims for either team in the last couple of meetings.

eirebhoy

I don't agree that there wasn't any clear chances. The game should have been rapped up at half time. It was the most frustrated I've ever been watching Celtic under Strachan because it should have been won in the first half. I've had a few pints so can't remember a lot but Miller and Sno had enough clear cut chances between them in the first half to win the match. I can't even bare to read a Celtic forum atm. I'll leave it for a while.

I remember at one point they showed the stats. 10 shots to Celtic, 1 to Rangers. Rangers one shot was Sebo's scuffed shot. Most of Celtic's should have resulted in goals. It was the most chances Celtic created in a first half in a long time.

eirebhoy

By the way, what's the thoughts on Sno? I think because of his age and the fact he cost £70k there's a lot of bias towards him. Gravesen has been much more impressive imo. Gravesen has made a few costly mistakes but Sno is guaranteed to make at least 1 crucial mistake in a match too. Wednesday's couldn't have been more important.

He has potential but he's nowhere near as good a player as a lot of people like to think imo. It's still far from certain whether he'll make it at Celtic.

I think the penalty miss (blast over the bar) against Falkirk sums Sno up. He makes out he's a confident guy and acts cocky a lot of the time but in the end he actually lacks bottle.

Also, that 17 year old Canadian that Celtic let go to Feyenoord in January has played for them in the league already.

A Dub in Glasgo

Talk about a game of 2 halves. Celtic should have put Rangers to the sword in the 1st half, Rangers come out strong in the 2nd and score. Celtic then appear to fall apart.

It really is a sorry sight to see Rangers fans celebrating at Celtic Park although it does not hurt like normal. Anyway, that just made Rangers season and Celtic can be crowned champions for the 2nd year running soon enough.

Almost reminded of the Tommy Burns managed Celtic against Watties Rangers in the mid '90's. Celtic all over Rangers but Rangers score a goal against the run of play.

odonnell

Well theres clear cut, and theres old firm clear cut mate. I can remember tens of these games where either team had a dozen runs through on the keeper and neither team scored. Then i can recall a couple of games where every shot seemed to be a goal (celtic 6-2, rangers 5-1 not too long after if memory serves). Granted Celtic looked like they should have done the business but like i said - thats been their trouble all season hasnt it? Too much huffing and puffing, and leaving it until the 89th minute....

I seriously think next season will be a different story. All it will take is a competent Rangers setup and the two teams will be neck and neck once again. Remember, last season celtic won the league on 91 points whilst rangers finished 3rd.... but the season prior to that Rangers won the league on 93 points with celtic on 92.... which says to me that last season was a lack of quality competition rather than a brilliant celtic side. I think the same has happened again this season as a follow-on, and it looks like celtic could end the season on a whopping 98 points!! BUT - is that down to a brilliant celtic? Im not so sure... i dont think all those missed clear cut chances are a fluke - they are missing larsson badly and it shows. Even sutton or hartson could have made a difference.

Sno, im not sure about. He seems as though hes confident enough you know, but then i suppose that doesnt always mean he will produce the goods.... ach but sure hes stil young enough - give it a season or two and he'll sink or swim, but yeah it seems strange to leave a £40k /week player on the bench in favour of that lad.

And as for your run of play Dub in Glasgow!! our goal was bang on time and completely WITH the run of play (for the 20 minutes we dominated)...the other 70 ..well... whos counting. Do you remember tommy Burns saying something to the effect of "Andy Goram broke my heart" back then? That keeper was amazing....and pretty much single handedly shattered Tommy Burns celtic career that day (backed up of course by the fantastic team we had waaaay back then and assembled for quite a few bob)

redspider

Celtic should have won this game as they had the chances. But in a way, those missed chances are what summarizes Celtic's season so aptly, in that they are not dangerous enough up front (at least for Europe).

The win by Rangers will rankle. Its a shame the match didnt come several weeks after the Milan loss as that would have given fans some more appetite. The game also lost some sparkle as it means little in terms of Celtics march to the title, as they will surely get back on track for that.

eirebhoy wrote:

Kenny Miller's chances are up I'm afraid, 2 or 3 clear cut chances.
What about Sno?

I agree, I dont think Miller is good enough for where Celtic want to be.

Sno, can do a role but is not as effective as Gravesen I agree. Lennon is still doing a job but surely he is not fit enough.

I think Celtic need a more creative player in central midfield and one that can get in the box and be in the centre for knock-downs, clearences, etc, and be at the edge of the box. When was the last time we saw someone score a Lampard-like, Gerrard-like finish at Celtic?

Its good to have the creative forces of Nakamura and McGeady, but perhaps someone more central is needed. Perhaps a lop-sided formation with one creative winger and a midfielder who can go box to box and get in there. Sno, Lennon and Gravesen all hang back.

Could McGeady drift into the centre? I'd certainly like to see him do that and play on top of the centre in a quasi-diamond shape. (bte: boards needs a whiteboard!)

By the way, I was dissapointed with Beattie, V of H and Miller against Milan, so I think Celtic definitely need a new striker.

Keeper, fine
full-backs, passable
Maybe a new central defender although Pressley is okay
Gravesen okay, Nakamura okay, McGeady okay.

Redspider

eirebhoy

redspider wrote:

I think Celtic need a more creative player in central midfield and one that can get in the box and be in the centre for knock-downs, clearences, etc, and be at the edge of the box. When was the last time we saw someone score a Lampard-like, Gerrard-like finish at Celtic?

That's something they've really being missing. McGeady is starting to take a lot of shots from outside the box but that's about it. Gravesen will definitely offer that. He's the most talented player in the squad after Naka imo in terms of passing and technique. He needs a run in the team. I'd love to see Hartley and Gravesen in the centre with Hartley sitting deaper. Both offer a lot of creativity and they'll do their shift off the ball. Hartley would be the more reliable positionally and has played the holding role before.

odonnell

but do you think GS will hold onto gravesen next season when he has sno for a quarter the price? One thing to remember though - Nakamura looks like hes off back home after this season so GS will need to plan for that. Celtic look likely to start next season £12m better off than Rangers due to the CL run - same as it was last season the other way around, but we didnt get a penny to spend of it unfortunately. GS WILL! (which is worrying).

The game meant a lot to all fans though mate...dont think just because the league is won, that this game didnt mean anything.

eirebhoy

odonnell wrote:

Nakamura looks like hes off back home after this season so GS will need to plan for that.

He was on the Celtic website within hours dismissing that news. He was talking about playing for Japan, not in Japan. Got lost in translation. If he leaves Celtic it'll almost certainly be to Spain but I think he'll definitely be here next season. Hopefully the current run is his bad patch this season, hasn't looked himself recently.

WhiteWashMan

good win for rangers, and will hopefully galvenize the 2nd place spot.

but even better, hoping that the league will be closer run thing than the last 2 years.

odonnell

damn.....

ach hes gifted alright like, but gifted players are rarely ever consistent ones. We learned that with gazza and laudrup, and for the one game in 3 that they play sublimely, you need to learn to put up with the 2 games where theyre merley a shirt filler for 70 minutes.

good player though, wish we had signed him.

odonnell

WhiteWashMan wrote:

good win for rangers, and will hopefully galvenize the 2nd place spot.

but even better, hoping that the league will be closer run thing than the last 2 years.

totally mate - my point about this being a big game was more for the fact its an excercise in sizing up the damage and seeing what needs to be done for next season. That having been done now, with one more OF game to come this season - its giving us a clearer picture of what we need in the gers squad. With a lot of players leaving in the summer...my concern is where the cash will come from. Will DM dip into his sofa for loose change just one more time?

I thought the game was a decent standard - not the thunderclappers we have witnessed over the years but certainly befitting the two squads that were there... Rangers showed their mettle for once and i think it fitting that WS should get a win at parkhead. Itl buck all theplayers up for next year and the league race will truly be back on i reckon..... and THAT is what every fan wants on both sides.

eirebhoy

I think Strachan will have a lot of money to spend in the summer. He has spent £7m each of the last 2 summers. He didn't even get to spend any of the Petrov money considering all the signings were done by then. Then there's Varga, Wallace, Pearson and Maloney out for almost £3m between them. The wage bill is half what it used to be. The club was a lot more succesful in the CL than they would have budgeted for. I'd be expecting Strachan to be very active in the transfers this summer.

btw - the club has always said that any money Strachan makes on transfers will go straight into his kitty. Obviously wages have to be taken into consideration but Petrov (£25k), Maloney (offered around £18k), Pearson (£10k) Varga (£15k) have gone on or after 30th August and surely one or two more to leave aswell.

redspider

Strachan may not have that much money with Dermot Desmond calling the shots. Desmond is not in this for the charity you know. Sure, he'll need to invest to win more and get more money in but he is not going to throw away money at it, ala some owners.

I expect Strachan to be cute in the market though and get good value for his budget. Maybe he can get an older player who is good enough to do a swansong and who doesnt need the money but needs games or some other overlooked players. Celtic will not be in any bidding wars. Who knows, maybe a couple of youngsters from Ireland is what he needs.

As for Hartley, I need to see more of him to judge his creative capability but when he was in a purple shirt he certainly seemed to produce up front.

Redspider

eirebhoy

redspider wrote:

Strachan may not have that much money with Dermot Desmond calling the shots. Desmond is not in this for the charity you know. Sure, he'll need to invest to win more and get more money in but he is not going to throw away money at it, ala some owners.

He's not the owner though. He's just the major shareholder and doesn't want to take over the club. He hardly ever goes to board meetings and isn't really that involved. If he wants to cash in does he not just sell his shares?

odonnell

As far as im aware though - its very difficult to have a footie team like rangers or celtic and actually come out at the end having made a personal profit. It seems to be a labour of love more than investment strategy....so... i dunno - these recent years celtic have done just enough to make sure they are that slight edge ahead of the gers... i reckon theyll come good and give strachan the rope he needs....

[Jackass]

Good thread.

Good win gers....I think after my earlier comment you were due the win odonnell

Missed most of the first half, just caught the last ten minutes or so, then the second, so from what I saw it was a really poor game, suprising for an old firm!! :eek:

lol, great goal to seal it, dissapointed with result, dissapointed with the game. bad week in general (Can't stand off Kaka like that!! If you back off him he'll slot 9 out of 10)

odonnell

Nick wrote:

Good thread.

Good win gers....I think after my earlier comment you were due the win odonnell

Missed most of the first half, just caught the last ten minutes or so, then the second, so from what I saw it was a really poor game, suprising for an old firm!! :eek:

lol, great goal to seal it, dissapointed with result, dissapointed with the game. bad week in general (Can't stand off Kaka like that!! If you back off him he'll slot 9 out of 10)

heh yeah mate that win was overdue beyond being funny so it was...my neighbours must think theres an axe murderer or something living next door to them with the noise i was making through that game.

Ahhhhh ....the trials and tribulations of being an OF fan eh?? Heart breaking stuff every year whether you win or lose. If you win the league you look forward to being not quite humiliated in Europe as soon as you come up against a monster of a team (Juventus, Ajax, cringe....Grasshopper Zurich... ), and if you finish second or....heaven forbid - 3rd!!! - then you ave the other half of the OF to put up with for the rest of the season! But i tell you mate - some of the stories you could tell eh?

the game itself - you know, as far as old firm games go it wasnt the prettiest. Ive certainly seen far better, and far more technical games than that one but i think this harks back to what i said earlier - its a different kind of player both teams have nowadays so the fancyness tends to go out the window. I wish we could roll it back to the Paul McStays, Richard Goughs, Super Allys, Laudrup, Gazza, Packie Bonner, Roy Aitken, Andy Goram etc....essentially the better players from the NIAR years (sorry thats a gers fans perspective there) - as those games were the ones that stand out in my head for pure adrenalin fueled football. There was electicity in those games and the football itself was usually quite gifted, and great to watch them going hammer and tongs carving one another open end to end.

So yeah i agree in hindsight it possibly wasnt a fantastic game, but i have the bias tendancy to focus in on the times rangers dominated... the rest of the time i was behind the sofa biting my nails, peering over the back now and then for a quick scream at Filip Sebo...

Erin Go Brath

Cant believe Celtic lost that one! Trying to be as neutral as possible here, and it can be difficult sometimes in old firm games, I thought we should have won easily!

Kenny Miller wouldnt score in a whorehouse tbh, 2 gilt edged chances, neither came within an asses roar of the goal :eek:

As for Sno, I thought he had a superb game, both against 'gers and Milan, and is definitely improving, and one for the future I feel. Gordo is good with the young players, and I hope he persists with Sno as I feel it'll pay dividends.

What Celtic desperately need more than anything is a partner for JVOH up front. Preferably someone who knows where the goal is. Two blanks in the two big games is where the problem lies!