General Election - Who will you vote?

Wertz

Stekelly wrote:

Why vote for them if you dont agree with their policies? what happens if a ot of like minded people like yourself end up voting them in?

I said their "economic policy" (or possible lack thereof)
We already have a SF TD, and he's about the only one I consistenly see actually doing anything for this constituency. Local issues matter a hell of a lot more to me than national issues (yes I do realise both are intrinsically linked), hospitals and health in general, especially.

TBH SF are probably my "best of a bad bunch" choice...anyone but that bunch of FF c*nts at this stage. I don't care how much money they've seemingly put in anyone's pockets (including my own); were it a choice between them and the monster raving looney party, screaming lord sutch would still be getting my vote.

If (and it's a huge if) SF managed to form a government then so be it, will of the people and all that, but there are far too many FF heads on this island for it go any other way...even if it goes FG's way, it's just the same sh*t with different idiots at the helm...

[edit] @ brianthebard
I vote on what I feel like...if someone's doing a good job on issues that matter to me they get my vote, plain and simple. Party policy matters little to me since as I mentioned above, SF will not form a government but may manage to hold a balance of power, enough to make the differences that matter.

is_that_so

imp wrote:

Being forced to vote for somebody you don't want in government is as bad as not being allowed vote for somebody you do want in government, imo.

I take it you'd rather somebody vote for a candidate whose policies they didn't agree with than not vote at all? Would eeny-miney-mo suffice?

There is no forcing involved. If you choose not to vote, fine , but don't then complain about the government. You cannot object to a democratic decision that you chose to have no part of. It is not even a protest, you simply don't count, electorally speaking.

Most elections I have voted in tend to have at least 10 candidates on the ballot sheet.
When I vote I find there are more than enough people to choose from.
My decisions is based on balancing up those individuals, a party or candidate that best convinces me on their overall policies. When I vote I distribute my vote as far as I want it to go. The purpose of my voting in an election is not for my candidate to win. I hope they will and thus vindicate my vote but ultimately it is an expression of a franchise.

Ideally that candidate will be part of a larger group who can convince enough of the public that they have a credible set of policies.

If I want to protest I can spoil my vote or vote for the Legalise Cannabis candidate. That way at least my objection/protest has been counted.

Steyr

Fine Gael for me, FF need to go and well PD's etc are just not "interesting" and as for SF? ha ha it will be a bad bad day before i recognise the Political Wing of the IRA as legitimate. Enda Kenny all the way.

partholon

Wertz wrote:

Sinn Féin/Green party

Before I get a torrent of abuse about being a shinner, they're about the only ones at local level who do any good for the local area. I don't particularly like their past exploits and some of their economic policy is questionable, but since they won't be forming a government that's not really an issue.

FF/FG/PD? All the f*ckin' same as far as I'm concerned....I have time for labour to an extent but I rarely hear the local candidate mentioned.
Last general election I voted greens and they got damn all support....probably be a little different this time round.

almost exactly the same for me so ill be voting sinn fein, greens , socialists and independants. the mainstreams parties interest in me and my area extend soley to our function as a tax paying machine to look after their mates so im ****ed if theyre getting my vote.
like yourself i do feel i should vote labour but i just cant bring myself to trust the feckers having been burned so many times in the past.

we'll get FF out of power (hops in the sack with em in 92)

were against bin charges (our lord mayor brings em in)

we'll oppose this gov at every oppertunity (does sweetheart deal to give bertie 3 day week) :rolleyes:

i do have one question though. what the hell is the PDs advertising strategy? i passed a billboard with a 20ft long add for the PDs with mickey Ds mug smiling down on me........ on the side of neilstown shopping centre! what the **** has the PDs ever done for neilstown!?! christ the only thing FF have done is ensure their "new" shopping center was put so far away from em that the only way it could be further was to cross the liffey! (and in case your wondering yes thats "liffey valley" im talking about, not exactly central is it)

im dying for this election, i reckon theres gonna be some major upsets. particularly if theres a large turnout.

Colonel Sanders

rb_ie wrote:

I haven't decided yet as I haven't had the chance to read up, but it most certainly will not be Fianna Fail.

my sentiments exactly

Thrill

Fine Gael for me. The thought of a socialist sinn fein government gives me the horrors.
I wasn't going to vote, i haven't in years but seeing all the sinn feiners on this thread has woken up to the danger that they may get some say in the way this country is run.
From now on i will be voting in every election in the hope those murdering socialist scum never get into power.

marco murphy

Thrill, would you say Labour and Fianna Fail are scum?

antSionnach

Fine Gael and the Greens for me

McDowell lives close by, but I'm not feeling neighbourly:)

marco murphy

Poll closed?

As political threads belong on the politics board, this thread has been moved here.
Polls are not allowed here.
Discussion is.

I've not decided who I'm voting for yet.I will be voting though if I'm spared and able.

I have decided who I am not voting for and that would be the incumbents.
A monkey could steer the country in the direction it has got to in my opinion just as well as this current set of ah shur it will do brigade...
They've been using cruise control and the ECB has been fueling the car for them.
Theres been no skill involved at all and in some cases a blatant lazy disregard for equity and fairness.
I'm not inspired by the choice I'm given to replace them with though.

Regarding Sinn Féin,I'll cross post what I posted about them in the other thread...

"I saw Gerry Adams dodge questions from Bryan Dobson right left and centre last night on the politics show.
SF spokespersons will really have to brush up on the nitty gritty of policy if they want to break out of their niche voting group.

For example - Refusing to answer questions on the effect that a nearly 20% Corporation tax would have on the tens of thousands of jobs in US based industries here is simply not acceptable.
Refusing in an election year to quantify what SF's policies are specefically on personal tax is not inspiring me to vote for them.

Rabbiting on with sound bytes about rich and poor and how we'll tax the rich without specefics is simply not good enough if they want to break out of their niche voting group and into middle Ireland.

That said I think SF have a golden opportunity to capture votes if they show a committment to sensible policies-they already have good social sentiments-just not a clue in my opinion on how to apply them properly.
They'd have to walk the walk in these matters as well as talking the talk,they should specify the beef and ask for a mandate on specefics and not on sound bytes.
Otherwise they are as bad as any of the other parties in that respect I think."

marco murphy

For example - Refusing to answer questions on the effect that a nearly 20% Corporation tax would have on the tens of thousands of jobs in US based industries here is simply not acceptable.
Refusing in an election year to quantify what SF's policies are specefically on personal tax is not inspiring me to vote for them.

Where do you get this percentage? The ERSI strongly supports Sinn Feins economic policy.

It's the ESRI by the way.

Bryan Dobson asked Adams about their 17.5% corpo rate and he dodged it.
Dobson asked him about 5 times and then said we're clearly not going to get an answer on that one.

Where do the ESRI strongly support SF's economic policy? In fact what is SF's economic policy specefically?
Now I mean specefics not sound bytes.

Zebra3

I won't vote in this poll as I'm waiting to see if I'm put back on the register. :mad:

Villain

That poll was interesting before it got wiped, Sinn Fein could do very well this year with the election up North this week looking likely to see them in Government with a large number of members elected.

Down here however its not so certain what will happen, they are excellent at local politics and are sure to pick up a large number of working class votes however their economic policies scare the life out of the middle class so while I can see them making gains I'm not sure how many more seats they will get a lot will depend on turnout, Sinn Fein are very good at getting their vote out and the lower the overall turnout the better I think Sinn Fein will do.

Labour are starting to move in the polls and I think they can get another few points before the election is called, FG's biggest gain has been the rise in support of Enda Kenny which has surprised me tbh but if they can increase his popularity I'm sure FG can make huge increases.

While I do believe the Greens will make gains I don't know if the recent polls have been overstating the green affect, when it comes down to polling day I'm not sure the Greens will get the increase in support they are expecting.

As for FF and PD's... well its time for a change and apart from Parlon, McDowell, Harney and O'Donnell I can't see the PD's having many other TD's after the election, FF?.... well god only knows how many seats they will lose.

Time Magazine

Poblachtach wrote:

Where do you get this percentage? The ERSI strongly supports Sinn Feins economic policy.

That made me laugh out loud.

I'm busy now, I've a gig to go to tonight and I have exams next week, but I will respond to this in time.

ballooba

In partial defense of the Sinn Fein policy. I did like the part about promoting Enterprise Ireland firms over IDA firms (i.e. Indigenous Enterprise). We should have been looking at developing these businesses over the last ten years rather than squandering all of our money in on a domestic property vacuum.

Other parts of the Sinn Fein economic policy such as nationalisation of firms and trade union recognition I'm not too fond of.

I was surprised that my Fine Gael colleagues didn't support the ideas on Indigenous Enterprise.

partholon

Poblachtach wrote:

Poll closed?

welcome to the politics forum, dont expect too much here. particularly if your not a fan of the mainstream parties. was nice to see how people genuinely felt though in terms of how they were going to vote.i didnt expect to see SF doing so well in your poll let alone trouncing the opposition, im starting to think sinn fein might shock them all

marco murphy

partholon wrote:

welcome to the politics forum, dont expect too much here. particularly if your not a fan of the mainstream parties. was nice to see how people genuinely felt though in terms of how they were going to vote.i didnt expect to see SF doing so well in your poll let alone trouncing the opposition, im starting to think sinn fein might shock them all

Well I for one hope so., oh and Ibid we can have a good bit of fun later on I guess

Oh I don't know.
What part of the above post by partholon is discussion by the way?

I'm also waiting for poblachtach to answer my question regarding the ESRI or does he think that this is a place where you can throw your opinions about unchallenged?
It's not.

As for polls here,they hinder discussion and have been in the past the target of vote once vote often reregistered users.
Hence I'm of the view that they are politically unrepresentative.

Besides that,politics web fora are mecca's for political activists also diluting any value a poll here would have.

Discussion is good though so if anyone would like to carry on discussing who and why they are voting for-please do so and stay on topic.

marco murphy

Tristrame wrote:

Oh I don't know.
What part of the above post is discussion by the way?

I'm also waiting for poblachtach to answer my question regarding the ESRI or does he think that this is a place where you can throw your opinions about unchallenged?
It's not.

As for polls here,they hinder discussion and have been in the past the target of vote once vote often reregistered users.
Hence I'm of the view that they are politically unrepresentative.

Besides that,politics web fora are mecca's for political activists also diluting any value a poll here would have.

Discussion is good though so if anyone would like to carry on discussing who and why they are voting for-please do so and stay on topic.

I will answer, however, mocks comes first.

Poblachtach

Poblachtach wrote:

I will answer, however, mocks comes first.

Thats not good enough.You've plenty of posts here recently and are on line now.
You cannot make statements here willy nilly as facts without providing a link.
Please provide us with where the ESRI are supporting SF.
thank you.

Otherwise we'll have to dismiss what you are saying as rubbish.

marco murphy

Tristrame wrote:

Thats not good enough.You've plenty of posts here recently and are on line now.
You cannot make statements here willy nilly as facts without providing a link.
Please provide us with where the ESRI are supporting SF.
thank you.

Otherwise we'll have to dismiss what you are saying as rubbish.

I am now going offline and will provide specific evidence later. In the mean time you can dismiss my facts as rubbish if you so wish.

Time Magazine

To be fair to Poblachtach, I do believe there was one ESRI report on raising our corporate tax rate to 17.5% about three years ago. I'll have a gander and might get to post properly tonight.

Poblachtach

Poblachtach wrote:

I am now going offline and will provide specific evidence later. In the mean time you can dismiss my facts as rubbish if you so wish.

No I won't if you present them and are willing to discuss them.

Ibid wrote:

To be fair to Poblachtach, I do believe there was one ESRI report on raising our corporate tax rate to 17.5% about three years ago. I'll have a gander and might get to post properly tonight.

Where he can state that the ESRI strongly supports SF economic policy from 1 report on corporation tax 3 years ago is beyond me.
But yeah do find it if you can thank you.

In the meantime-heres some hard opinions from people in the know in january 2007.
Bold for emphasis.

Last week, Microsoft Ireland Managing Director Joe Macri said that the Republic of Ireland's corporation tax rate is the prime reason why multinational companies choose to remain in Ireland. While access to the EU and the availability of cheap labour were key factors in attracting foreign investment here 20 years ago, these have largely been eroded by rising costs, falling productivity and the enlargement of the EU to central and eastern European countries, he said, adding: "That leaves us with tax."

Today, the American Chamber of Commerce Ireland President said that the Government needs to restate it's commitment to the lowest possible tax rate rather than suggesting 12.5% is ‘as good as it gets' particularly in light of the global trend towards lower levels of income tax especially on corporate profits.

The newly-appointed President of the American Chamber of Commerce in Ireland, Jim O'Hara, has said that Ireland should be justifiably proud of its economic achievements over the past two decades. But that Ireland is now facing it's most serious challenge yet as it seeks to maintain its position as a preferred location for foreign direct investment.

"Ireland is a politically stable, pro business, open economy with many attractions and we can be justifiably proud of our success. But we are continually moving up the cost league table and some of our traditional advantages have been eroded". O'Hara, who is General Manager of Intel Ireland, called for increased focus and urgency to address the weaknesses in Ireland's competitive armoury.

"While a higher cost base is in many ways a product of our economic success we have to adopt strategies that prevent our cost base rising at a pace that outstrips our productivity. Our future success will depend on our ability to compete in the global economy.

In addition to aggressively addressing our cost base, other aspects of our competitive armoury also need urgent attention. Areas of key concern include re-establishing our leadership in post primary education, growing our research and development capability, preserving and expanding a pro - business tax environment that supports the national agenda, and rapidly upgrading our physical and digital infrastructure".

"Government is clearly addressing many of these challenges and we are seeing encouraging signs such as the Strategy for Science Technology and Innovation, Transport 21 and hopefully in the National Development Plan being published tomorrow. However we need a greater sense of urgency in addressing all of the components that make Ireland an attractive place to do business. For example science in schools has been a topic of concern for many years and international comparisons confirm that Ireland continues to drop down the league tables".

O'Hara said that the issues we face are not Government's alone. "For example many of our multinational companies have been successful in driving increased productivity to offset our rising cost base and in adapting their business models to allow them to compete successfully in the changing environment. Therefore in seeking solutions, we need to engage all stakeholders including government agencies, academia, and both the multinational and indigenous business sectors", he said.

There are currently over 600 US companies employing close to 100,000 people directly in Ireland with a further 225,000 indirect jobs supported by US companies. In 2006 US firms paid over €2.4 bn to the Irish exchequer in corporate tax and contributed a further €13 bn in expenditure to the Irish economy in terms of payrolls, goods and services employed in their operation.

Additional comments made by O'Hara on key competitive issues are outlined below.

Taxation

*
Ireland's 12.5% corporation tax rate has been of enormous benefit but Ireland cannot afford to become complacent about fair tax competition when other countries are now offering similar, if not better, tax incentives for foreign direct investment
*
The Government needs to restate it's commitment to the lowest possible tax rate rather than suggesting 12.5% is ‘as good as it gets' particularly in light of the global trend towards lower levels of income tax especially on corporate profits.
*
The Government must not accept any rolling back of its opposition to EU Tax Harmonisation. The argument that tax harmonisation is necessary for closer European unity, does not stand up to scrutiny. In the United States of America, one of the most successful global economies, there is wide divergence between States in both corporate and individual tax rates. Low taxes are used by States to encourage inward investment and a better spread of economic development.

Link

Now look East for where much of those benefits might go if we try to fix something that is not broken.
325,000 jobs could equate to maybe about a quarter of the Republics population benefiting from the status quo.

Meddle with that SF at your peril.

ballooba

The workforce in Ireland is just over 2,000,000 btw.

Tristrame wrote:

Now look East for where much of those benefits might go if we try to fix something that is not broken.

They're already going. P&G and Dell are moving to Poland.

There has been a rash of layoffs in the last couple of months.

What's the point in hiring Polish people in Ireland at Irish rates when you can just as easily hire them in Poland at Polish rates.

ballooba

ballooba wrote:

The workforce in Ireland is just over 2,000,000 btw.

I'm assuming that a family of 4 ie 2 adults and 2 kids are heavily dependent on their U.S company wage to pay the mortgage regardless as to whether the other partner is working or not.
Thats where I'm basing the guestimate of up to a quarter of households could be affected.

They're already going. P&G and Dell are moving to Poland.

There has been a rash of layoffs in the last couple of months.

I know and what would a 5% rise in corporation tax do only give those that are staying now a reason to go.

ballooba

Tristrame wrote:

I know and what would a 5% rise in corporation tax do only give those that are staying now a reason to go.

The current tax rate is not succeeding in keeping them here. They will go anyway. I'm not proposing that we raise our corporate tax rate.

Our future as a low tax economy is unsustainable in my opinion. We should have been building our indigenous industries for years rather than building an economy based on a property bubble.

Time Magazine

ballooba wrote:

The current tax rate is not succeeding in keeping them here. They will go anyway.

*Slaps head*

What a way to react to a competitive threat: give up. Ah sure some criminals escape from prison, let's just open the doors completely.

We benefit from huge transfers of what are essentially American-made profits, declared and taxed here, and put into our pockets because our tax-rate is lower than pretty much everyone else's. Aside from the risk of losing corporations - and there's a a swathe of (albeit biased) anecdotal evidence from CEOs et al - we'd lose those tax revenues.

Our tax takes are fine, ergo our tax rates are fine. There is no need to raise taxes, we have more than enough money coming in. If we want extra cash we can cutback on some of our wasteful spending to free up additional capital.

ballooba

Ibid wrote:

*Slaps head*

I just said that I didn't support raising the corporate tax rate. Maybe you dislodged something with all that slapping of your head.

Shell companies funnelling profits through our country may provide lots of tax revenue but it will provide zero employment. We need jobs too. We cannot continue to base our economy on low tax rates. Surely we have more to offer to the world than a tax dump.

Time Magazine

ballooba wrote:

Shell companies funnelling profits through our country may provide lots of tax revenue but it will provide zero employment. We need jobs too. We cannot continue to base our economy on low tax rates.

Of course it creates jobs!!

One of two things happen with this money. The government either realise they have more than enough and lower taxes (or, more accurately, they don't raise them) and this increases employment as there's less of a disincentive to work/etc and there's less government interference with the market.

Alternatively, they spend that money on things like roads, which provide temporary employment, but also serves as a long-run investment that creates employment.

I'm currently reading up on Sinn Féin's economic policies and will report back within an hour or so.