General Election - Who will you vote?

Jonny Arson

The_Minister wrote:

Only Labour is pro-abortion.

I must make it explicitly clear that the Labour Party has a pro-choice stance on abortion.

ballooba

Jonny Arson wrote:

I must make it explicitly clear that the Labour Party has a pro-choice stance on abortion.

OMG ROFL

I didn't even notice that the first time I read it.

"I'm Pro-Abortion. I want all the babies aborted and I want them aborted now!"

Definitely a vote-winner.

The_Minister

Jonny Arson wrote:

I must make it explicitly clear that the Labour Party has a pro-choice stance on abortion.

Ooops:o
That is, of course, what I meant.

AngelofFire

ballooba wrote:

OMG ROFL

I didn't even notice that the first time I read it.

"I'm Pro-Abortion. I want all the babies aborted and I want them aborted now!"

Definitely a vote-winner.

Being Pro-Choice does NOT mean that one encourages abortion or that one rules out all other options for dealing with Crisis pregnancy e.g. adoption, keeping the baby. It means that one believes that if a women wishes to terminate a pregnancy that she should be allowed that option.

Foetuses should not be classified as babies they are non-sentient beings, they are the property of the female host.

oscarBravo

OK, before it starts: this is not the forum for discussion abortion. Don't anyone even think about going there.

ballooba

AngelofFire wrote:

Being Pro-Choice does NOT mean that one encourages abortion or that one rules out all other options for dealing with Crisis pregnancy

Obviously went straight over your head. There is no such thing as Pro-Abortion. Read the posts again. This time with a fully functioning sense of humour.

Het-Field

Id Be voting Progressive Democrats on the basis Common Sense and Experience. Labour ande Fine Gael Offer no real alternative

Fine Gael

1.Justice

Minister McDowell has introduced the applause worthy Criminal Justice Bill 2006. Fine Gael want to stick Young Offenders into Boot Camps

2.Health

Minister Harney wants to expand the amount of consultants in Ireland. Fine Gael want to remove the "Drunks" from the Hospitals and stick them in the drunk tank regardless of the circumstances

3.Finance

The Progressive Democrats have been at the forefront of the argument at the abolition of stamp duty. Fine Gael are so unoriginal they jumped on the bandwagon, and had the audacity to claim the it was their policy

4.Foreign Affairs

Fine Gael continue to have ridiculous attitudes regarding the European Union. They are not pragmatic at all, and are willing to see Europe's expansion, which has been moving at the speed of a freight train over the past two and a half years. 12 new states, and they want more (i.e. Turkey, Ukraine etc). The PD's are fans of Europe, however, we are not ridiculosly blind to the problems rapid expansion will caused

5.Internal Affairs

The PD's have always been pragmatically Nationalist, while Fine Gael have no nationalist sentiment at all. This of course was indicated by Kenny's desire to see compuslory Irish abolished in schools. The he threw on his Hypocrits coat and had the audacity to tell immigrants that they had a duty to uphold the christian and celtic nature of the Iriish nation. A weak attempt to appeal to nationalist spirit. Sorry Enda you fool nobody

Labour

No longer democratic socialist, only social democratic. Essentially the are the lap dogs of the bigger Fine Gael Party. Fair Play to Labour Youth who will uphold the original ideology of the Party, of course to the Detriment of their relationship with the OP, as was seen in last months edition of the Phoenix. They will offer nothing to a new government, and Brendan Howiln is the only one worth his salt. Pat Rabbitte is my local TD, and he is one of the Most Useless in the country.

I have no love for Fianna Fail either. Yes I am a former member of UCD'S KBC, but then I became educated, and Drifted into the PD's. Bertiegate showed that a corruption still exists within FF, and the party suits are still willing to condone it.

Without a shadow of a doubt the PD's are the only Party I would really consider giving my number 1 to

Time Magazine

Het-Field wrote:

Id Be voting Progressive Democrats on the basis Common Sense and Experience. Labour ande Fine Gael Offer no real alternative

In your opinion.

Common Sense and Experience

QFlaughs.

Minister McDowell has introduced the applause worthy Criminal Justice Bill 2006. Fine Gael want to stick Young Offenders into Boot Camps

Applause-worthy? Yes, rushed-through legislation FTW! The Boot Camps policy is popular among the electorate.

Health

If I was a PD I wouldn't be mentioning this.

Minister Harney wants to expand the amount of consultants in Ireland. Fine Gael want to remove the "Drunks" from the Hospitals and stick them in the drunk tank regardless of the circumstances

That's ridiculous. If they're drunk and also in a car accident, FG are not proposing they receive little treatment believe it or not!

The Progressive Democrats have been at the forefront of the argument at the abolition of stamp duty. Fine Gael are so unoriginal they jumped on the bandwagon, and had the audacity to claim the it was their policy

The Minister for Finance in your government has ridiculed that claim.

Fine Gael continue to have ridiculous attitudes regarding the European Union. They are not pragmatic at all, and are willing to see Europe's expansion, which has been moving at the speed of a freight train over the past two and a half years. 12 new states, and they want more (i.e. Turkey, Ukraine etc). The PD's are fans of Europe, however, we are not ridiculosly blind to the problems rapid expansion will caused

The PD's have always been pragmatically Nationalist, while Fine Gael have no nationalist sentiment at all.

:rolleyes: Yes, Fine Gael - the United Ireland Party (official name) are not nationalist.

This of course was indicated by Kenny's desire to see compuslory Irish abolished in schools.

As a fluent speaker, his intent is to remove the stigma Gaeilge holds.

The he threw on his Hypocrits coat and had the audacity to tell immigrants that they had a duty to uphold the christian and celtic nature of the Iriish nation.

He said no such words. Do you not agree that we should continue our Christian and Celtic nature, though?

Labour

No longer democratic socialist, only social democratic. Essentially the are the lap dogs of the bigger Fine Gael Party.

Unlike the PDs whose economic policies hold no weight in this government? (Incidentally, I'd be slow to argue this - otherwise you'll have no ground to say "well that's Fianna Fáil's policy.")

Fair Play to Labour Youth who will uphold the original ideology of the Party, of course to the Detriment of their relationship with the OP, as was seen in last months edition of the Phoenix. They will offer nothing to a new government, and Brendan Howiln is the only one worth his salt. Pat Rabbitte is my local TD, and he is one of the Most Useless in the country.

Do you not think a socialist party should move with the times, no? Do you not offer your "fair plays" to such a pragmatic move?

I have no love for Fianna Fail either. Yes I am a former member of UCD'S KBC, but then I became educated, and Drifted into the PD's. Bertiegate showed that a corruption still exists within FF, and the party suits are still willing to condone it.

I didn't see the PDs jumping ship, Abie. In fact, I recall your party leader tapping an Taoiseach on the shoulder after fed us that sh*t of a speech he made in the Dáil.

As one member of your party put it, you're moral cowards.

Without a shadow of a doubt the PD's are the only Party I would really consider giving my number 1 to

One would expect as much from the chair of a branch.

Het-Field

Ibid wrote:

In your opinion.

QFlaughs.

Applause-worthy? Yes, rushed-through legislation FTW! The Boot Camps policy is popular among the electorate.

If I was a PD I wouldn't be mentioning this.

That's ridiculous. If they're drunk and also in a car accident, FG are not proposing they receive little treatment believe it or not!

The Minister for Finance in your government has ridiculed that claim.



:rolleyes: Yes, Fine Gael - the United Ireland Party (official name) are not nationalist.

As a fluent speaker, his intent is to remove the stigma Gaeilge holds.

He said no such words. Do you not agree that we should continue our Christian and Celtic nature, though?

Labour

Unlike the PDs whose economic policies hold no weight in this government? (Incidentally, I'd be slow to argue this - otherwise you'll have no ground to say "well that's Fianna Fáil's policy.")

Do you not think a socialist party should move with the times, no? Do you not offer your "fair plays" to such a pragmatic move?

I didn't see the PDs jumping ship, Abie. In fact, I recall your party leader tapping an Taoiseach on the shoulder after fed us that sh*t of a speech he made in the Dáil.

As one member of your party put it, you're moral cowards.

One would expect as much from the chair of a branch.

*The Boot Camps Idea is not popular. Most of the Vox Pop articles I have seen debunk you claim immediatly.

*Health, The PD's have been far better on health than the rainbow govt. Back in 1996 there was a terrible problem with Waiting List. The current government has smashed the issue of waiting lists. Beds arent the problem now, its docors, and consultants, and the PD's want to make a major move on this. I can go there, and just have

*Obviously they wont refuse those on deaths door after a car accident, but those deemed drunk would be refused treatment and sent to the drunk tank

*If Kenny had any sense he would have attempted to remove the compulsory nature of all subjects, not just Irish. Of course its Fine Gael we are dealing with here

*Look at all papers from the 26th of January 2007, and you will see that Kenny argued that immigrants should uphold Ireland's Christian and Celtic Nature

*Charlie McCreevy was Fianna Fail only in Name, the man was a PD, and he pressed PD financial policy until 2004

Time Magazine

Het-Field wrote:

*The Boot Camps Idea is not popular. Most of the Vox Pop articles I have seen debunk you claim immediatly.

Hard-hitting evidence there. I take it all back.

*Health, The PD's have been far better on health than the rainbow govt. Back in 1996 there was a terrible problem with Waiting List. The current government has smashed the issue of waiting lists. Beds arent the problem now, its docors, and consultants, and the PD's want to make a major move on this. I can go there, and just have

The problem with the Health System is doctors and consultants? That's it? Infections aren't a problem? PPARS isn't a problem? The unconstitutional Health Bill was a-ok?

We'll believe you later.

*Obviously they wont refuse those on deaths door after a car accident, but those deemed drunk would be refused treatment and sent to the drunk tank

This is exclusive to your statement "regardless of the circumstances." Yes, the policy states if people are suffering from excessive alcohol they will charged and treated in an external A+E unit to sleep it off, of course under supervision. I can't see any problem with this.

*If Kenny had any sense he would have attempted to remove the compulsory nature of all subjects, not just Irish. Of course its Fine Gael we are dealing with here

Here's your opinion of "Common Sense" again. I disagree that it lacks "Common Sense" to not call for the removal of English and/or Maths. We're relatively technically competent and speak daycent English. It's Irish that has problems. Nonetheless, this still has nothing to do with your ridiculous, spurious claims on nationalism earlier.

*Look at all papers from the 26th of January 2007, and you will see that Kenny argued that immigrants should uphold Ireland's Christian and Celtic Nature

Please read my post again. Point out where in his speech he said those words.

*Charlie McCreevy was Fianna Fail only in Name, the man was a PD, and he pressed PD financial policy until 2004

So you're admitting the PDs have lost significant clout in this government and presumably in any future coalitions with FF?

ballooba

Het-Field wrote:

*Obviously they wont refuse those on deaths door after a car accident, but those deemed drunk would be refused treatment and sent to the drunk tank

First things first. Seeing as Micko may be rejoining us in Fine Gael shortly,and he and the party have been following our policies so closely as to borrow a few bits, could you explain further where we will be drawing the line between those in need of treatment and those treating A&Es like a hostel.

Have you ever been to an A&E in the small hours yourself? I have, in both James and Vincents, as a result of workplace accidents I might add. Not a pleasant place to be.

I have also spent time in Chicago where they won't put up with the levels of drunkeness that the Gardai Siochana have to pass by every night. If you are caught drunk (i.e. unable to stand up) on the street in downtown Chicago you will spend a night in a cell. If you are caught urinating in the street/ with an open container you will be in court. It's the right way to have it. We should have more respect for ourselves as a nation.

A vistor to ireland would be forgiven for thinking that St Patrick was the patron saint of messiness. It's embarassing to see visitors witnessing that level of disgracefullness.

All that you say above is all well and good expect for one simple fact. The PDs are the one per cent party and represent a tiny fraction of the power FG would have in government. Yes, the PDs have been in government for the last 10 years (they sold their souls), but the Bertiegate incident has just gone to prove to the nation just how impotent the PDs and in particular Michael McDowell is. Bravo Mary Harney, she got out just in time. Micko is doomed. The tosspot deserves it.

The PDs are irrelevant in the upcoming election. Just try and deny it. A spell in the sin bins will do them the world of good. They need a time out to think about where they have let us all down. They also need to send Micko back to the Four Courts, if they'll have him.

Jonny Arson

Het-Field wrote:

*Health, The PD's have been far better on health than the rainbow govt. Back in 1996 there was a terrible problem with Waiting List. The current government has smashed the issue of waiting lists.

Funny, on Friday after 13 years of been on a waiting list for something I got my letter to go for an assessment! (not the actual proceedure) I should have had this particular treatment in done at latest in 2002 and that is including delays from the previous sham back in the mid 90's. Unlike most people I have kept my name on this wating list despite myself going for this treatment privately 4 years ago... I know nobody who has noticed waiting lists been smashed.... hmmm. My theory is the government's tactic has been to keep people on waiting lists for as long as possible so they eventually go the private private. Great tactic I have to say, boosts the private sector and smashes waiting lists making the government look all fantastic while people have to dig into their own pockets.

Het-Field wrote:

Beds arent the problem now,

Ye serious? According to my sources hopsitals are still infested with elderly people laying on trolleys for days but then I dont fall for Mary Harney's propaganda on the PD website.

BeardyGit

I'll throw in my tuppence. Never, never will I cast a vote for a Sinn Fein politician. Never. A party of former terrorists and organised criminals. Anyone who thinks a SF politician who toes the party line is trustworthy is naive. Sinn Fein will ruin this fine country if they ever have influence....

FG aren't a serious option - They're barely able to run their own party let alone a government.....

I'll be supporting Fianna Fail this time 'round. They've given me what I've wanted over the past 2 terms, and I'll be happy to support them again. I'd prefer to see the PD's fall by the wayside to be honest though. If we could have a FF/Green coalition, I'd be delighted, but I can't see it happening. Pity really....

Edited to correct a SF/FF typo

miju

i'm confused Gil_Dub , SF will ruin this country if voted in yet you wish for a SF / Green coalition ?????????

InFront

Must mean FF. So Gil Dub FF have given you everything you wanted? How limited were your demands, was health-care in there? education? transport? crime and justice? environment? value for money?

ballooba

Gil_Dub wrote:

FG aren't a serious option - They're barely able to run their own party let alone a government.....

Could you qualify that statement please.

OPENROAD

ballooba wrote:

Could you qualify that statement please.

The problem with FG is Edna Kenny, well for me anyway, when there is little difference between various parties it comes down to the leaders, personally we are not blessed in Ireland with politicians with charisma, and sorry but Edna Kenny certainly does not have it.

InFront

What's charisma got to do with how well you run a country/ government? Look at Gordon Brown. The longest running Chancellor of the Exchequer in British History, and arguably the most successful since world war two. He's anti-charismatic.

A charismatic/ magnetic leader does not equal a successful society. Didn't Charlie Haughey teach people anything?

ballooba

OPENROAD wrote:

The problem with FG is Edna Kenny, well for me anyway, when there is little difference between various parties it comes down to the leaders, personally we are not blessed in Ireland with politicians with charisma, and sorry but Edna Kenny certainly does not have it.

That has absolutely nothing to do with how the Fine Gael party is run. You have failed to qualify your statement.

As for Enda's charisma. I have never heard that said by anyone who has seen Enda speak in public or met him in person. What exactly are you basing this new statement on? Could you qualify this new one either?

OPENROAD

InFront wrote:

What's charisma got to do with how well you run a country/ government? Look at Gordon Brown. The longest running Chancellor of the Exchequer in British History, and arguably the most successful since world war two. He's anti-charismatic.

A charismatic/ magnetic leader does not equal a successful society. Didn't Charlie Haughey teach people anything?

Sorry think you might have missed my point, of course charisma is important trait in a leader, to say otherwise is absurd, do you have FG links? I am a floating voter, have no ties to any political party, therefore for voters like myself charisma of leaders will play a part in our final choice come election day. Will it play a central role in my decision, of course not, but yes it will play some part, and like it or like it not Political charisma does play an important part in the political arena today,am I inspired when I hear Edna Kenny speak, no I am not.

OPENROAD

InFront wrote:

What's charisma got to do with how well you run a country/ government? Look at Gordon Brown. The longest running Chancellor of the Exchequer in British History, and arguably the most successful since world war two. He's anti-charismatic.



Actually think Gordon is ok.

The_Minister

ballooba wrote:

As for Enda's charisma. I have never heard that said by anyone who has seen Enda speak in public or met him in person.

I've met the man in person, and the only strong impression that I was left with was "OMFG he's a midget" (I had always thought he was at least 6'2''). He left me with no great impression at all, and the people I was talking to afterwards all agreed that he was a damp tissue. Having said that, that was one and a half years ago, back when he was a joke, and his presence seems to have improved over time (He no longer is a joke who tells racist ones in public).

InFront

What racist jokes? Well, not asking you to repeat it obviously, but when did this happen?
I doubt it.

At least 2 years ago I think.
I can't remember the specefics but it was one of his early blunders that left me wondering was he the man for THE job.
I'm sure others here will come up with the specefics.
I'm too tired and in need for the bed to google it for now.

Oh here it is.
1st or 2nd google that came up.

http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:1p4tKxf2OecJ:www.unison.ie/irish_independent/frontpagepdfs/2002/7987.pdf+enda+kenny+racist+joke&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=ie&client=firefox-a

*edit* as you can see it was 5 years ago nearly.
He's received much more coaching since and boy did he need it...

BeardyGit

Balooba - I'll qualify my statement.

I received Alan Shatters embarassment of an election circular when I arrived home from work. It's a glossy two page full colour flyer, full of cheap and dated swipes about Berties Cosmetics Billl, the 2 years past closure of Media Lab Europe.... All out tacky and hardly the type of communication that would inspire me to look on him as a dependable politician.

Who in their right minds at FG would support the publication of this tabloidesque rubbish? Shatter's reputed to be a dependable FG candidate for the Dublin South constituency, but in one fell swoop this paper tripe has wiped out any chance of securing my vote. I was so annoyed with it I called his office immediately to warn them of how those in my demographic were likely to react to this patronising and tasteless rubbish. The staffer decided to engage me in debate about my stereotyping of their target audience instead of recognising that as a single, 29 year old, middle income professional, I am truly representative of MANY other constituents in this area. Instead of recognising the effect their rubbish delivey could have, she chose pedantry as her tactic of the day. Pointless and to be honest, she did as much damage as the circular did.....

I'm not party loyal, and hoped FG might actually come up with the goods to convince me they could be trusted to just get on with things if elected. They've lost that chance - And I blame it all on their party controls to be honest. I can't blame Shatter personally for everything. But a candidate and a party who allow the campaign produce such tastless and wasteful output aren't people I want to see in control. And they have the cheek to label Ahern and McDowell as 'The Throwaway Boys'! The threw away my vote by dismissing my call to Shatters office. How could I honestly consider electing a party who actively dismiss an opportunity to understand their electorate? Unbelievable.

And it's not the first time FG have utterly failed to understand what I want from my local representatives.....

FF's Tom Kitt was the complete opposite when it comes to paying attention to my concerns when I called to discuss the circulars I was receiving and to ask him to address the clear felling on 3 Rock to Coillte and the responsible government departments. He took me seriously, stopped sending me unsolicited mail, and has to this day maintained communication with me about the current status of discussions with Coillte for the future development of 3 Rock as a recreational resource. I've spoken to him repeatedly since then. Just after I had contacted Tom Kitt's office, I spoke to someone in Seamus Brennans office, in case I didn't hear from TK. He called me later that day to confirm Tom Kitt would help me out, and asked me to let him know if there was anything else he could help with. This is in the region of 9 months back, and TK still calls me once a month with an update, or sends on a copy of the latest correspondence etc.

I offered Shatter, Mitchell and O'Leary the same opportunity to address my concerns to local government and Coillte, at the same time as I had contacted FG..... I never heard back from any of them. Three failures to act. All three local FG politicians - Total representation. Three lost opportunities to make a difference to me as a 'valued' constituent. I can only consider FG to be at fault and they'll not get my vote as a result. A failure to act as gross as theirs is something only a party can promote.....

AS_PokerKing

i'll tell ya the first one that comes knockin on my door is gettin a bag of flour chucked over them...3k a year i pay for VHI and to spend 2 nights on a poxy trolley in smelly tallaght hospital and i hear of the health services improving...haha yeah right...i dont suppose fat hole harney would lie on a trolley for 2 days ... EH NO !!! she'd on a private room eating cake ... they're all full of sh*te if you ask me

Elmo

GREEN

Cann't trust the rest of them.

AS_PokerKing

AS_PokerKing wrote:

fat hole harney...eating cake

Charming, witty and original. I will follow whoever you follow.

Elmo

Originally Posted by AS_PokerKing
fat hole harney...eating cake


Charming, witty and original. I will follow whoever you follow.

No! this is the HSE's new healthy eating advertisment :rolleyes:

ballooba

Gil_Dub wrote:

Balooba - I'll qualify my statement.

I still don't think you have illustrated how Fine Gael is failing to run their own party. That's OK. I'll take it as just a throwaway comment.

The issues you mention are not really national issues and therefore not really the concern of the party whole. Fine Gael have three strong candidates in Dublin South. Shatter and Mitchell will be returned. O'Leary may have to wait until 2012.

Shatter's leaflet doesn't sound that bad. Sounds like he's p1ssed off with the standard of politics in this country. So am I. So are a lot of your fellow constituents. I would sincerely doubt that you fit the key demographic for Dublin South. Seeing as Shatter is a family man with two kids around my own age I would sincerely doubt you are demographic he is targetting either. You must have seriously rattled that poor staffer if they resorted to pointing that out though. Well done.

Alan Shatter has in the past shown himself to be a principled and effective TD. Maybe not in terms of local clientelism but certainly on a national level. He would be an asset in the Dail in areas such as Family Law (definitely needs attention, especially adoption of children of married parents), Law in General and Health.

As for Brennan, he made a complete árse of himself while at the Dept Of Transport. That was his job, not sorting out a few trees on Three Rock. That would be a job for Jim O'Leary as a local councillor, so perhaps he should have acted on it. I'm not from 'Dundrum' so I can't comment on that.