General Election - Who will you vote?

ballooba

ballooba wrote:

He would be an asset in the Dail in areas such as Family Law (definitely needs attention, especially adoption of children of married parents), Law in General and Health.

But afaik as FG have never stuck him in the front bench, clearly his colleagues don't have too much regard for this 'asset'...

ballooba

Deleted User wrote:

But afaik as FG have never stuck him in the front bench, clearly his colleagues don't have too much regard for this 'asset'...

I'm glad you mentioned that. It allows me to illustrate a principled stance that Shatter took.

Shatter fell foul of John Bruton for breaking the party whip by voting in favour of a bill to ban hare coursing. Shatter is a member of the Irish Council Against Blood Sports.

Many in Fine Gael believe that should Shatter be elected this time round that he will indeed be brought into the front bench. The Phoenix ran an article on Shatter recently.

Polls are showing that Ryan will lose his seat to FG. Mitchell is topping the polls, then the two FFs, then O'Donnell. Shatter is polling better than O'Leary. I reckon O'Leary was brought in to pull in transfers for Shatter.

ballooba

ballooba wrote:

Shatter fell foul of John Bruton for breaking the party whip by voting in favour of a bill to ban hare coursing. Shatter is a member of the Irish Council Against Blood Sports.

It was easy for him to be principled on some rural issue. It would be like TDs down here in South Kerry askingforhigher bin taxes for Finglas. Did he show any similar stance on an issue that might actually affect his constituents?

ballooba

Deleted User wrote:

It was easy for him to be principled on some rural issue. It would be like TDs down here in South Kerry askingforhigher bin taxes for Finglas. Did he show any similar stance on an issue that might actually affect his constituents?

Well that particular issue proved very costly for Shatter. He voted against the party line because he was a animal rights activist. I doubt you have any Finglas Bin Tax activists in South Kerry?

One other issue on which Shatter did sterling work was on Divorce. The work he did there has affected the lives of thousands of people from all over the country. His Divorce Bill in 1989 was the first Private Member's Bill to be passed in 30 years. That bill gave rise to the Judicial Separation and Family Law Reform Act, 1989.

[edit]
Just a few more of Shatter's Private Members Bills, he had lots, potentially a record there:

Enacted directly into law:
Adoption Act 1991
Landlord and Tenant (Amendment) Act 1994
Protections for Persons Reporting Child Abuse Act 1998

Others which were resulted in leglislation:
Criminal Justice (Community Service Orders) Bill
Environmental Protection Agency Bill
Refugee Protection Bill
Genetic Fingerprinting Bill
Prevention of Incest (Amendment) Bill

It is actually quite surprising that he has never been brought into the front bench. I agree.
[/edit]

ballooba

BTW, my ballot will be:
1. Creighton (FG)
2. Quinn (Lab)
3. Gormley (Gr)

solas

Wertz wrote:

Sinn Féin/Green party

Before I get a torrent of abuse about being a shinner, they're about the only ones at local level who do any good for the local area. I don't particularly like their past exploits and some of their economic policy is questionable, but since they won't be forming a government that's not really an issue.

FF/FG/PD? All the f*ckin' same as far as I'm concerned....I have time for labour to an extent but I rarely hear the local candidate mentioned.
Last general election I voted greens and they got damn all support....probably be a little different this time round.

Sinn Fein for me too, never voted for them before but I totally agree they are the only ones who are visible at local level and while I agree they may not have the past experience as a government forming party, but if the oppertunity arose to act within a coalition I think they could offer something new. Either way, locally, my vote counts.

SeanW

Deleted User wrote:

It was easy for him to be principled on some rural issue. It would be like TDs down here in South Kerry askingforhigher bin taxes for Finglas. Did he show any similar stance on an issue that might actually affect his constituents?

Conor, do you live in the U.S?

Because while in America, individual representatives are free to vote whatever way they want on any issue, here in Ireland, the UK and most of Europe, everyone in a party or coalition always votes the same way.

For a legislator to break ranks and vote against the party here is a very serious and grave matter indeed. The only recent example I can find of any representative in Europe not obeying the party line is when Tony Blair put the entry to war in Iraq to a vote in the House of Commons, that caused a revolt that shook the bejesus out of his government, and he relied on the Conservatives to pass his declaration.

You have to have a lot of principles to break ranks with your party because it is such a drastic thing to do, something that only happens as a final resort when one feels their party has crossed a red line.

As for me, my number one priority is getting FF out. So I'll be voting along party lines.

1: An FG candidate
2, 3 and 4: FG, Labour and any Independent candidates
5th pref and lower: Sinn Fein (because I consider them democratic opposition now, wouldn't have voted for them before)
(there are no Green candidates in my consitituency or they'd get a below-1st preference vote too)

Tristrame

Tristrame wrote:

At least 2 years ago I think.
I can't remember the specefics but it was one of his early blunders that left me wondering was he the man for THE job.
I'm sure others here will come up with the specefics.
I'm too tired and in need for the bed to google it for now.

Oh here it is.
1st or 2nd google that came up.

http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:1p4tKxf2OecJ:www.unison.ie/irish_independent/frontpagepdfs/2002/7987.pdf+enda+kenny+racist+joke&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=ie&client=firefox-a

*edit* as you can see it was 5 years ago nearly.
He's received much more coaching since and boy did he need it...

His biggest joke since then was the one where he said he had been mugged during a debate on Irish crime.

When challenged, he later pointed out that he had been mugged in Kenya, 12 years before, and had remarkably forgotten to mention what must have been a traumatic experience in any debate or statement in the intervening period!

Its a pity that both the current Taoiseach and his main challenger are both 'economical with the truth' when it suits.

ballooba

Who cares where Enda's attack took part. He was relating the experience of how it felt to be a victim of crime. It's pretty irrelevant where it hapens, it's still the same experience.

ballooba

ballooba wrote:

It's pretty irrelevant where it hapens, it's still the same experience.

You genuinely believe he actually experienced it?



That's almost cute.

Let me guess, in the 12 years he forgot all about it (including omitting it in a speech he gave on countries where crime rates might pose problems for Irish tourists!) I bet no records of his complaint turned up in Kenya. Call it a hunch...

ballooba

Deleted User wrote:

You genuinely believe he actually experienced it?

Do you genuinely believe that Bertie got a Loan in Dublin and a Gift in Manchester?

upmeath

thrill wrote:

Fine Gael for me. The thought of a socialist sinn fein government gives me the horrors.
I wasn't going to vote, i haven't in years but seeing all the sinn feiners on this thread has woken up to the danger that they may get some say in the way this country is run.
From now on i will be voting in every election in the hope those murdering socialist scum never get into power.

Poblachtach wrote:

Thrill, would you say Labour and Fianna Fail are scum?

TBH, not a whole lot of socialism in Fianna Fáil these days, Poblachtach.
Described (and quite accurately, might I add) last week as "the party of property developers and speculators".
The social values and sense of community this country had have gone with the wind, have you taken a look around our county in the last 12 or 15 years? I've grown up in this, and I don't like how it's changed one bit.

Bertie Out.

I personally would love to see an FG-Lab-Green coalition in power.
Fine Gael seem to have won back some of the support they lost towards the end of the last Dáil.
Labour are making steady gains since the by-elections of 2005, and I think the Greens are going to take everybody by surprise in this GE, I can't get over the number of my friends who have suddenly, only in the last year or so, found themselves changing their attitudes of the Greens completely and some are even canvassing for them at the minute. Dark horses, the balance of power may lie with Trevor Sargent.
I don't think SF are going to see the huge rise in support they saw at local elections a few years back, there will be gains made but nothing on the scale that's being predicted in the media over the last year or so. If you check the most recent opinion polls, SF seem to be coming out of them with a first preference vote of 7%, the same level of support was recorded consistently earlier this decade, with support peaking in the period 2004-2006 at 9/10%

Bubonic

Defo voting for the current Government.

Personally I have done well under the current government.

Can't stand either Kenny or Rabbit.

Would never vote for any commies either.

I would vote for the Greens as a third part of government however they really annoy me as well. Don't get me wrong I am very pro environment policy but every party in Ireland is crap in this area, including the greens. Would love to see a real debate about Nuclear power in Ireland but not one party is behind it.

It makes me laugh how Irish people blame the government for their problems. We behave like children and then wonder why we are allowed. The Government didn't buy all the cars on the road in traffic jams, we did. They don't do all the drinking and driving, we do. They don't fill the hospitals up with drunks, we do. They don't attack people in town, we do.

Chakar

I'll be voting in the forthcoming election for the first time. I'll be voting for Fianna Fail and the Progressive Democrats. I've done well under the current government. I live in the constituency of Dublin South and there's two FF TD's with Tom Kitt and Seamus Brennan. There's a third FF candidate named Maria Corrigan who I've never met but she's the sweeper candidate. The Progressive Democrats have Liz O'Donnell. She's a good representative for Dublin South.

Time Magazine

Bubonic wrote:

Personally I have done well under the current government.

It makes me laugh how Irish people blame the government for their problems.

It makes me laugh how Irish people think their success is due to the government.

We might be doing well, but what the people that need help?

RainyDay

Chakar wrote:

The Progressive Democrats have Liz O'Donnell. She's a good representative for Dublin South.

Really? What specifically has Liz done for Dublin South (apart from patronising House of Fraser & Harvey Nick's of course)? Judging from the Dublin South page on her website, she has attended one meeting and issued one press release.

For the record, I'm a Labour Party member.

Chakar

RainyDay wrote:

Really? What specifically has Liz done for Dublin South (apart from patronising House of Fraser & Harvey Nick's of course)? Judging from the Dublin South page on her website, she has attended one meeting and issued one press release.

For the record, I'm a Labour Party member.

She dealt with the Travellers issue along with the other TD's when the Travellers were encamping in fields in Dublin South a few years ago. The Government introduced legislation as a result. Also she has helped me out with two queries that I had quite satisfactorily. I've heard good reports about her from people I know. There's a lot more to politics than press releases and meetings.

lola_run

The Greens will be getting my vote.
The majority of FF politicians don't give a hoot about the things that really matter, such as a decent health and transport system, like those that exist on the continent.

When is the election taking place, in fact? Has a date been confirmed?

K-9

Ibid wrote:

It makes me laugh how Irish people think their success is due to the government.

We might be doing well, but what the people that need help?

Success is down to the individual and Govt. just as problems are down to both. I suppose FG and the rest of the opposition haven't been in Govt. enough for the last 20 years to grasp that.

People that need help - Well, one of the highest minimum wages in Europe, no tax or PRSI on that wage, near full employment.

These people didn't get much help under the last Rainbow Govt. either.

K-9

AS_PokerKing wrote:

i'll tell ya the first one that comes knockin on my door is gettin a bag of flour chucked over them...3k a year i pay for VHI and to spend 2 nights on a poxy trolley in smelly tallaght hospital and i hear of the health services improving...haha yeah right...i dont suppose fat hole harney would lie on a trolley for 2 days ... EH NO !!! she'd on a private room eating cake ... they're all full of sh*te if you ask me

No PD supporter myself, but Mary Harney's mother has experience Tallaght hospital. Let them eat cake? I don't think so

Chakar

Gil_Dub wrote:

I received Alan Shatters embarassment of an election circular when I arrived home from work. It's a glossy two page full colour flyer, full of cheap and dated swipes about Berties Cosmetics Billl, the 2 years past closure of Media Lab Europe.... All out tacky and hardly the type of communication that would inspire me to look on him as a dependable politician.

I got that too. There's only one word for the circular really.

solas

upmeath wrote:

TBH, not a whole lot of socialism in Fianna Fáil these days, Poblachtach.
Described (and quite accurately, might I add) last week as "the party of property developers and speculators".
The social values and sense of community this country had have gone with the wind, have you taken a look around our county in the last 12 or 15 years? I've grown up in this, and I don't like how it's changed one bit.

I'm probably in the same age group and to be honest if you remember the eighties you'll understand why social values and sense of community that were apparant then have diminshed, although I can empathise with the sense of loss on both counts.

Ibid wrote:

It makes me laugh how Irish people think their success is due to the government.

actually, you might be surprised to know how effective free market politics have been, courtesy of the PD's.

I'm not vouching for a return to the depressed eighties scenario when the sense of community was vastly working class oriented, but I think we would do well to attain some sense of balance. (I think things are starting to slow down somewhat anyway)

K-9

solas wrote:

I'm probably in the same age group and to be honest if you remember the eighties you'll understand why social values and sense of community that were apparant then have diminshed, although I can empathise with the sense of loss on both counts.


actually, you might be surprised to know how effective free market politics have been, courtesy of the PD's.

I'm not vouching for a return to the depressed eighties scenario when the sense of community was vastly working class oriented, but I think we would do well to attain some sense of balance. (I think things are starting to slow down somewhat anyway)

Very good post. As Christy Moore said we used to sing and moan about injustice in the 80's. Now when we have the money we don't seem to care.

Maybe we have the wealth now that we didn't have in the 80's/90's but in the last 5 years (when we have it) we are starting to distribute it.

It's only in the last 5 years that the minimum wage has been increased to a substantial level with no tax or PRSI on it, higher pensions, higher FIS limits etc. I do think in the last 2/3 years, now that the wealth has been created, FF/PD's have being trying to redistribute the wealth more equitably. It's easy to knock them when you aren't in Govt.

iT's very easy for the opposition to sit and moan about things. Do people really think FF/PD's are just about property developers? Everthing they have done is for the benefit of the rich?

Actually, the most innovative tax/PRSI policy has come from FF. They have said let's reform PRSI. Why should people earning over 50/60,000 pay less PRSI/Levies?

It's a very good point that the opposition have missed.

And before people say well they have been in Govt. they have brought in measures in the last budget/2/3 budgets to address this.

It's just an extension of what they are doing, but the opposition have missed it.

GabharBrean

Fine Gael/Labour as a new government? Just another load of cookie monsters wanting the get their greedy hands in the jar. Politics downs here are morally bankrupt and corrupt to the core. Hell, I'd vote for big Ian before these so-called politicians.

lola_run

GabharBrean wrote:

Fine Gael/Labour as a new government? Just another load of cookie monsters wanting the get their greedy hands in the jar. Politics downs here are morally bankrupt and corrupt to the core. Hell, I'd vote for big Ian before these so-called politicians.

Who is big Ian?? And what do you mean by down here?

The_Minister

lola_run wrote:

Who is big Ian?? And what do you mean by down here?

He is referring to Ian Paisley, a politician from up North. I have little time for him.

RainyDay

Chakar wrote:

She dealt with the Travellers issue along with the other TD's when the Travellers were encamping in fields in Dublin South a few years ago. The Government introduced legislation as a result. Also she has helped me out with two queries that I had quite satisfactorily. I've heard good reports about her from people I know. There's a lot more to politics than press releases and meetings.

TDs have no role in dealing with illegal traveller encampments. That's a matter for the relevant local authority. It seems that the PDs have learnt a trick or two from their FF bedfellows, i.e. how to claim credit for issues in which you had no direct involvement. I've heard no reports around Dublin SOuth of Liz's activity, good or bad.

Seanies32 wrote:

Actually, the most innovative tax/PRSI policy has come from FF. They have said let's reform PRSI. Why should people earning over 50/60,000 pay less PRSI/Levies?

It's a very good point that the opposition have missed.

And before people say well they have been in Govt. they have brought in measures in the last budget/2/3 budgets to address this.

It's just an extension of what they are doing, but the opposition have missed it.

If it's such a good point, one might wonder why they wait until the end of their consecutive 10 years (and 17 out of the last 20) years in Govt before discovering this point?

lola_run

The_Minister wrote:

He is referring to Ian Paisley, a politician from up North. I have little time for him.

Ah, ok! God, yeah he's a right loud mouth. He reminds me of Jean Marie Le Pen!

K-9

RainyDay wrote:

If it's such a good point, one might wonder why they wait until the end of their consecutive 10 years (and 17 out of the last 20) years in Govt before discovering this point?

You mean the stuff in the last couple of Budgets. No PRSI on minimum wage, no Levies on wages below €480, Additional .5% levy on incomes over €100,100 per year.

They where concentrating on lowering tax rates before that and increasing tax bands. Reforms like:

Over one third of the work force is now outside the tax net.

All of those on the current minimum wage are outside the tax net completely.
The Budget last year removed nearly 52,000 low-income taxpayers from tax net in 2006.
The top 25% of income earners pay 80% of all income tax raised by the State.

Standard tax rate 1987 35% Now 20%
Higher rate 58% Now 41%.

This is an immaginative approach to making the PRSI system fairer. Makes you wonder what the opposition have been doing for 17 out of 20 years too when the Govt. comes up with the most original policies on Tax/PRSI

solas

Seanies32 wrote:

Success is down to the individual and Govt. just as problems are down to both.

This is true, while the PD's might be strong on economic liberation the same policies just don't work when applied to the dept of health and children. I wonder if Fine Gael are the mising link in our current govt and could we possibly see another rainbow coalition this time around.