If you were running...........

shoutman

Hey,
Thought this might be an interesting way to see what gets people going and what kind of things will sway you on voting for a particular party.
Do you vote for the individual (Ie. local TD does the work doesnt matter what his parties ideals are), is your vote soley based on local community issues or do you look at the broader scale of things?

I am a first time voter this year and haven't really made my mind up about where I am going to vote.

Basically the question i'm asking is if you were running for TD what would your policies be and would you speak about local or national issues or a very balanced mixture of both.

Gone West

That was the year of the Munich bother. Which
Was most important? I inclined
To lose my faith in Ballyrush and Gortin
Till Homer's ghost came whispering to my mind.
He said - "I made the Iliad from such
A local row". Gods make their own importance.

shoutman

Patrick Kavanagh "epic".... who said I was asleep through leaving cert english

But yes you get your point accross.

Jackie laughlin

When you say "local TD" doing local work, you are talking about clientelism. It's considered a curse of the PRSTV system. Basically it's a local politician lying about his or her efforts on your behalf. They pretend to provide a service. It's considered essential in order to get elected. I know of just one TD ever who took a principled stand against and was still elected.

Think about it: if a TD or prospective TD got you something to which you were not entitled, you would both be corrupt. My local independent (non party) councillor never had a political thought, a major idea, a principle, even a personal preference in his life. He expects to be elected to the Dail; his simple ambition is to be a TD with no political purpose in mind. He finds out what every local group favours/opposes and leaflets saying that he too favours/opposes.

I would suggest voting for the party which best reflects your political views and for the candidate who does LEAST local work. A candidate who operates clinics is a liar but the lie may be necessary to getting elected.

johnnyskeleton

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a blank form political manifesto which all the parties are issued with and runs along the lines of:

Crime is down 5% in [insert area name here]
We will provide a further €10m to [insert local school name here]
We support the [insert insignificant little event that the proles of this godforsaken place care about]
We stand for [children's rights/gay marriage/pro-abortion if liberal constituance, low tax/tough stance on crime/less hippies if conservative constituance]

While it would be unfair for me to mention the specific party, I received a manifesto of that kind recently. It made no sense because the road that they proposed to retar was retarred two years ago and is still good. They didn't seem to know the correct name of the area either.

That said, my policy this year is that I'll vote for anyone (with the exception of SF) who might realistically deal with the public transport problems in our cities (particularly Dublin). I'm not sure if that means I'm concerned with a local issue or a national issue, but it is something that I think a government should spend time on, instead of countless hours of trying to save face over last summer's consitutional furore.

I think that if a candidate has a very strong agenda (like public transport or improved health care) they have a very good chance of being elected, and I would sooner vote for someone like this over someone who will promise me what they think I want.

As for individuals v. parties - every vote is for the party. The only people who can speak for themselves in Irish politics are government ministers, opposition leaders and independent candidates.

marco murphy

On my list of priorities would be the faster roll-out of broadband throughout the country, more importantly rurally. It's a disgrace, the current situation, and we fall behind most of the EU.

But thats just me, and as a candidate, many pressures and problems are faced, and promises cannot neccesarilly be delievered on.

Jackie laughlin

I hereby promise to vote for any candidate or party who promises to reintroduce the death penalty for saying "roll out", "going forward", "ramp up" and a few others that I'm too tired to mention.

oscarBravo

Add "race to the bottom" to that list, and you get my vote.

Jackie laughlin

My current fav. is "high net worth individuals"!

Talk about losing the thread!!!

Liam Byrne

What pisses me off is all the waste of money on posters and flyers....

If a candidate had actually achieved something, we'd know about it.....no need to litter our doorsteps or add to our rubbish collection bill by dropping in flyers that indicate how good you think you are.

And knowing what they look like doesn't matter a damn......

The sooner "electioneering" is banned, the better.

By all means, let them do the legwork so that we can quiz them on their stance on Shannon, or local facilities, or inflation, or property prices or whatever, but lay off the flyers and posters - they're pointless.

In fact, I'm going to put a poster in my doorway saying - "I'm environmentally-minded, and if you add to my litter disposal problem you are GUARANTEED NOT TO GET MY VOTE" and we'll see who abides by it.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Liam Byrne wrote:

and if you add to my litter disposal problem you are GUARANTEED NOT TO GET MY VOTE" and we'll see who abides by it.

What if they post the flyers for every other candidate?
Look out for the Fiendish Super-villain party. :eek:

ballooba

oscarBravo wrote:

Add "race to the bottom" to that list, and you get my vote.

W00t!

I heartily endorse that proposal!

shoutman

Liam Byrne wrote:

What pisses me off is all the waste of money on posters and flyers....

If a candidate had actually achieved something, we'd know about it.....no need to litter our doorsteps or add to our rubbish collection bill by dropping in flyers that indicate how good you think you are.

And knowing what they look like doesn't matter a damn......

The sooner "electioneering" is banned, the better.

By all means, let them do the legwork so that we can quiz them on their stance on Shannon, or local facilities, or inflation, or property prices or whatever, but lay off the flyers and posters - they're pointless.

In fact, I'm going to put a poster in my doorway saying - "I'm environmentally-minded, and if you add to my litter disposal problem you are GUARANTEED NOT TO GET MY VOTE" and we'll see who abides by it.

Agree, and the fact that some of the election posters seem to be up for months afterwards is just mindboggling.

Jackie laughlin

Election posters, leaflets etc. are hardly an issue. If votes were inveresely proportional to paper output, my local Greens would sink without trace. No, these objections are part of the growth of political cynicism. It is a matter of deriding politicians and politics.

Liam, What is your political position? What are you in poltical terms or at least what are your views?

redspider

Not in direct response to the OP, just the general election:

I'd like to see a website where voters can list and prioritise the key issues for them, and enter their requirement on it specificall. Also political parties should enter their selection of policy as well and make it visible to the public. The top-50 issues could be listed

This will get rid of the inexact wishy-washy leaflets and manifesto's that are not precise and will put out on the table a more accurate description of policies that people want and that the parties will aim to follow.

Its not easy to do but it is doable and parties will no doubt be reluctant. Any volunteers to set up a "Policy Advisor" web area?

Some examples of Issues (not polished, to be refined, etc):

- Private and Public Health systems will be managed completely separately. The state will be 100% responsibe for Public Health and will deliver standards that are above the EU-15 average. Agree Yes or No

- Total tax rate (based on GNP) will be set at:
20-25%
25-29%
30-34%
35-40%

- The no. of Gardai at any one time active on the streets in patrol vehicles,
on foot, uniformed and undercover will be:
0.01 to 0.49 per 1000
0.50 to 0.99 per 1000
1.00 to 1.49 per 1000
1.50 to 1.99 per 1000
2.00 to 3.00 per 1000

- The Public Education system will be seperated from all Religious influence
within 5 years
10 years
20 years
Never

- We will allocate the following percentage of the tax take to Health:
20-24%
25-29%
30-35%
35-40%

- We will allocate the following percentage of the tax take to Education:
20-24%
25-29%
30-35%
35-40%


- We will allocate the following percentage of Education spending as follows:

Primary
20-24%
25-29%
30-35%
35-40%

Secondary
20-24%
25-29%
30-35%
35-40%

Others (3rd and 4th)
20-24%
25-29%
30-35%
35-40%


etc ....

Not all questions have to be so exact, some can be more vague.

Opinions welcome .....

Redspider

Jackie laughlin

Good idea but it addresses only the currently engaged citizen.

redspider

Jackie laughlin wrote:

but it addresses only the currently engaged citizen.

Possibly, but that leads onto a whole other discussion. (see * below)

I think such sharing of information and opinions would be useful for those that want to engage themselves, and it would certainly be an interesting exercise in democracy and perhaps bring some enlightenment.


* Going back though to the fact that such sharing of information would only address the 'engaged' citizen/voter, surely that points to a major flaw in our current one-person one-vote system.

I realise this is a topic for political theory rather than this post or indeed this particular upcoming general election, but is it a case that the many 'less informed' voters outvote the 'more informed' voters? Is it a case that those that are 'less knowledgeable' and with a 'lower grasp of total society understanding' and its working are in fact the majority, and that the current system puts power into people's hands that should not have that power, or at least do not have the knowledge to use it wisely, etc?

I realise that this is a difficult topic. One alternative would be where society is left to be structured more by the academics, the 'elite', the 10%, etc. But another alternative could be a Voter's Test which people must take and pass to show that they have understanding, etc. Of course, who sets and grades the test is another issue, and how difficult it would be, but like any other aspects of society, people have varying skills and are we expecting the impossible by asking all people to have a vote and to use it with equal effectiveness?

I think I would agree with a maxim that not all current voters are voting based on knowledge of the main issues. Indeed, it could be argued that if such a test were to exist perhaps some or indeed many of the politicians may not be fit for office.

We have Tests for Drivers, Gardai, Judges, Nurses. Why not for Voters? It would seem important to me as they steer the way that society develops, ultimately, although there are other democratic deficiences in place which means that its not a case of the blind leading the blind but the blind giving a mandate for a select group of politicians and public servants to 'lead' the rest.

Is there a satsfactory system? hmmmmm

Just thinking aloud, perhaps a topic for the Political Theory sub-forum ....

Redspider

Jackie laughlin

I'm reluctant to engage on this topic for fear of ruining the thread. There has always been an argument for elite rule of some sort and I'm not dismissing those arguments as they address the problematic herd mentality that could destroy democracy. It is worth mentioning here because there is a contrast between trying to facilitate the engaged citizen while deriding the simple leaflet. (I'm not suggesting that any one person here did both.) The aim should be to engage a greater number of citizens and to use every medium available to do so.

cheesemaker

*Radical overhaul of ceo/points system for entry into third level education.

*review of licencing laws.introduction of staggerd closing times for bars and night clubs to be on a level with the rest of europe.

*take the afternoon show off the air.

redspider

cheesemaker wrote:

*take the afternoon show off the air.

That would definitely get my vote ! ;-)


To the OP:

> Do you vote for the individual (Ie. local TD does the work doesnt matter what his parties ideals are), is your vote soley based on local community issues or do you look at the broader scale of things?
> Basically the question i'm asking is if you were running for TD what would your policies be and would you speak about local or national issues or a very balanced mixture of both.


I think these are two different questions. Our current system with 42 mini-elections with 3, 4 and 5 seaters has a local dimension but also a national one. The national dimension usually dominates, but the principle - think 'global', act local, or in this case, think national, act local applies. For example, if in your constituency all your TD's end up in the opposition, there is no chance of any 'local favours'. The more TD's in the government, the more 'localism' may be produced, and with a Minister or two even more. But to be fair to the politicians of latter years, not everything is done in the Minister's backyard and after decades of local politics there is more of a national picture taking place. More, but far from complete.

When I vote, I vote tactically for the National picture. For many voters though, their tactical votes can mean little as many constituency's do not have much of a swing possible and many voters cant affect the national picture at all. In some constituencies 100's of votes will make no difference at all yet in the constituency next door, 10's of votes for the same party may make all the difference. All voters are not equal given the democratic deficiencies in our current system.

If I was running as a TD, I would put forward a mix of local and national issues, but mainly national ones, as your stance on those can drive and shape the local aspects.

By the way, is there anybody who uses boards.ie going forward?

Redspider

Time Magazine

redspider wrote:

By the way, is there anybody who uses boards.ie going forward?

Several TDs browse the site. I don't think any regular posters are candidates.

El Stuntman

I'm going to find the candidate who has achieved the most in their non-political life (preferably a first time candidate) as most 'career politicians' are sycophantic yes-men buffoons who are incapable of making the tough, real-world decisions that need to be made for the benefit of the vast majority of the citizenry...
(example A - Bertie, couldn't make a decision to save his life for fear of upsetting a vested interest)

I'd like to see to see someone like Brody Sweeney (first time FG candidate who built a highly successful business up by himself) get elected and be handed a serious ministerial post where he could apply his skills and experience to solving serious issues

Jackie laughlin

Bertie makes decisions alright and they favour some group over another. Your friend, Brody, would similarly make decisions but he might favour some other interest group. It is nonsense to think that there is some expertise or efficiency which would make politics easy.

The scattered attack on politicians generally is simply cynicism about representative politics. It is a view nourished by media who refuse to take sides or take a position on anything.