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The great global warming swindle-9pm tonight (thursday 8/3/07)

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    #122
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    djpbarry wrote:
    I’m going to have to ask what you are basing that on? The average summer temperature at the North Pole is 0 degrees Celcius.

    If the average is 0, then by simple logic we can deduce that it must rise above 0 on occasion. Depending on where the maximum temps are, rain is far from impossible or unlikely.


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    #123
    Snowbie
    Registered Users Posts: 5,033 ✭✭✭Snowbie


    The temp in the artic ocasionally rises above 10c and can reach closer to 15c in the summer months or 24hr daylit hours.
    Dont assume cause its just the artic that the temp in the artic stays below 0c all year round.This is not the case nor has it ever been the case.

    It has gotten a tad warmer again this year and is alarming when the passage has opened up North of Canada.
    Which means alot of fresh water has melted into the North Atlantic which could disrupt the balance of salt water in the NAD? alot sooner too.


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    #124
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    bonkey wrote:
    If the average is 0, then by simple logic we can deduce that it must rise above 0 on occasion. Depending on where the maximum temps are, rain is far from impossible or unlikely.
    Thank you bonkey for stating the obvious :rolleyes: .

    Trogor has stated that rain is normal at the North Pole, but the fact is this is an assumption (unless he has figures to back it up?). First of all, the North Pole is considered an Arctic desert, as it receives very little precipitation at all, so stating that rainfall is "normal" is an overstatement. Secondly, I am not disputing the fact that is quite likely to have rained at the North Pole at some point in the past, but, as far as I am aware, this is one of the first (if not the first) reports of rain at the North Pole. If I may return to the article I posted:

    David Carlson, the director of International Polar Year:

    "It makes you wonder whether anyone has ever reported rain at the North Pole before."

    Besides, the focus of the article is dwindling ice coverage in the Arctic, not rainfall.


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    #125
    Trogdor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,310 ✭✭✭Trogdor


    djpbarry wrote:
    It takes time to compile, analyse and confirm data. It is likely they waited until their analysis was complete before issuing a press release.

    You do not find these observations a touch worrying?
    I’m going to have to ask what you are basing that on? The average summer temperature at the North Pole is 0 degrees Celcius.
    Bottom half of the page
    I don't find these observations that worrying, no. As i stated, i think that this summer's synoptics were the main culprit. Obviously the dwindling arctic ice is a problem, but it doesn't really come as a shock that record lows were reached again this year.


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    #126
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    trogdor wrote:
    Bottom half of the page
    I'm sorry, what are you pointing out here?
    trogdor wrote:
    Obviously the dwindling arctic ice is a problem, but it doesn't really come as a shock that record lows were reached again this year.
    Those are the observations I was referring to. I was not implying that is "shocking", but I would say this is a rather worrying trend.


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    #127
    Trogdor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,310 ✭✭✭Trogdor


    djpbarry wrote:
    I'm sorry, what are you pointing out here?
    Those are the observations I was referring to. I was not implying that is "shocking", but I would say this is a rather worrying trend.
    “The snow becomes slush and rivulets trickle. Then it starts raining. Even from the vicinity of the North Pole Papanin’s 1937 drift expedition reported summer rains, and we know that these spread throughout the polar basin.
    Early in July rivulets of thaw and rain water are flowing over the surface of the previously level emergency landing fields. Late in that month the ditches cut by running water are two or three feet deep and they form a network. By the 13th August, when Levanevsky passed over the mathematical North Pole, the season is at its worst. There are few, if any, patches of ice on the whole polar sea that have not been spoiled, for aeronautical purposes, by the rain and the sun.”
    Obviously i can't get records from the North pole, but that just shows that it has been reported before.
    Yes, for people living in the arctic, and people scared of an NAD shutdown/slowdown this is quite a worrying trend.
    http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/n_plot_hires.png


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    #128
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Like I said, I am not questioning the fact that it is quite likely to have rained at the North Pole at some point in the past.

    Anyway, as regards the reduction in Arctic ice coverage, rising sea levels is also a major concern.


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    #129
    Trogdor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,310 ✭✭✭Trogdor


    djpbarry wrote:
    Like I said, I am not questioning the fact that it is quite likely to have rained at the North Pole at some point in the past.

    Anyway, as regards the reduction in Arctic ice coverage, rising sea levels is also a major concern.
    Not so much from arctic sea ice melt, as it's already submerged, but from the greenland ice sheet and other glaciers, yes


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