International Poker Open

Doc Farrell

5starpool wrote:

Just realised I won't be in the country for this which makes me very angry.

how angry? Incredible Hulk angry? or Russel Crowe slightly peeved...? try to be specific in your posts please.....

Doc Farrell

30something wrote:

I'm in - would prefer a E150 (E130 + E20) then E100 inc E20 any day. You could keep costs down by getting players to pay for own meals, E20 won't cover meals for 3 days and I doubt the players would whinge (too much).

Any chance of organising creche facilities at the event ... ? My 3rd kid is due on 26th May. 3 of them under 5 - god help me!

I'll sponsor them for 60% of their winnings. good point btw. i'm sick of cold sausages and mauled chicken wings.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

ste/derek,

What i really like about this tourney even if it is a 100/150 event is that it gives the newcomer to the game a chance to play in a "big buy in event structure environment" this for me can only be good for the game. Everyone probably knows where they played their first game and for a lot this could be their first. I have no doubt you will get 600+ players at this as you will appeal to the majority who do not have the BR to play larger buy in events. If i can help in any way pm me.

Rgds
Fran

carfax

RoundTower wrote:

This is a bit suspicious, this is exactly what Fintan Gavin said when he started running tourneys in the Red Cow.

Hi Dave,

Of course Derek was joking a little and this tournament needs sponsorship (and lots of it) to be viable for us but please lose the suspicions.....

I know you didn't see the Student Champs but so many players have come up to us since then and told us that it was the best tournament they ever played (for a €7reg).....

We're just trying to better that tournament and make big poker tournaments open to all......More marketting speak I know but its actually what we're all about.

Rb

Sounds good Stephen, count me in anyway.

carfax

Aiyana Helpful Cove wrote:

ste/derek,

What i really like about this tourney even if it is a 100/150 event is that it gives the newcomer to the game a chance to play in a "big buy in event structure environment" this for me can only be good for the game. Everyone probably knows where they played their first game and for a lot this could be their first. I have no doubt you will get 600+ players at this as you will appeal to the majority who do not have the BR to play larger buy in events. If i can help in any way pm me.

Rgds
Fran

Cheers Fran I'm sure we'll be on to you soon.......Gonna start confirming details today so should be able to post more specific details here v.soon.

ianmc38

sikes wrote:

The buy-in is "low", but thats whats going to bring in the 800 players.

The average player is 266/1 to make the money if you pay the top 3. Anyone who thinks this is good value needs their head examined. We talk about poker being a skill game, this would be turning into a lottery and a really bad advertisement for poker

.

Goodluck2me

ianmc38 wrote:

.

i agree, i think you should pay 10% as that means many "newcomers" to the game have a greater chance of cashing and therefore haveing a great first experience to the game. if people thought only the FT were paid at tournaments it might put them off. it would also make the game an unreal lottery.

LuckyLloyd

I think that the final table // two tables max should be paid. I think that it would introduce a novelty factor to the event and essentially force people to use a strategy similiar to large low cost satellites.

If you play for three days, come inside the cash place and make double your buy - in, when that buy - in is €150 I would have to think it rather pointless.

One of the obvious weaknesses of the NSPC was the fact that the early paying positions seemed a little pointless tbh, and the first few exits from the final table seemed a little hollow when all the work required to get that far was considered.

If the buyin is decent, say €500 plus - a normal pay out structure seems to make more sense*.

People will call this a lottery, but if you aren't playing with a top five spot in any big tournament in mind - you are wasting your time IMO.


*Because that buyin level and up provides scope for running staged feeder satellites and qualifying people in for a small fee. Therefore, a standard 10% payout structure brings an interestingg dynamic into play whereby the bubble can actually mean something - creating interesting exploitable situations that those playing ftw can take advantage of.

At a low buy - in level like this, the dynamic doesn't exist and only serves to make a large percentage of the pay bracket largely redundant.

Goodluck2me

LuckyLloyd wrote:

If the buyin is decent, say €500 plus - a normal pay out structure seems to make more sense.

People will call this a lottery, but if you aren't playing with a top five spot in any big tournament in mind - you are wasting your time IMO.

i disagree with the lloyd, i think that if Poker ireland are aiming to reach the masses many will be beginners who just taking part in the tournament will eb a big deal to them, there will also be lots of good-decent players who cashing would make a big difference to. not everyone plays ftw.

BigCityBanker

LuckyLloyd wrote:

I think that the final table // two tables max should be paid. I think that it would introduce a novelty factor to the event and essentially force people to use a strategy similiar to large low cost satellites.

If you play for three days, come inside the cash place and make double your buy - in, when that buy - in is €150 I would have to think it rather pointless.

Its all relative and I personally think this line of thought is flawed.

LuckyLloyd

BigCityBanker wrote:

Its all relative and I personally think this line of thought is flawed.

Would you feel satisfied earning €150 for 15 - 20 hours of poker?

If the answer is "sure I don't play pro and play for enjoyment" (which I would agree with) then why should it make a difference if you play the 20 hours without any pay?? By this I mean either you make good money or you go home empty handed.

I would prefer that.

Lads, if making your buy - in back is ever a personal neccesity for you after you enter a tournament, you shouldn't be playing at that buy - in level.

bops

hi ste and team

firstly great idea to get a big tourney @ a cheap price - count me in - i reckon you can get the numbers alright

pay the usual 10% - no need to go messing around with this - the top few spots should be big paydays anyway if you get the numbers

please drop the "international" bit - it's really bugging me!! it's makes it tacky sounding - which i know does not suit your professional set-up

BigCityBanker

Lloyd - its all relative, the payout structure will be pretty transparent, if its not to somebodys liking they can choose not to play.

Lets say a relative newbie plays and this is their first major tournament with propper structure etc.. 600 players, 60 get paid - they finish 55th and get 160€ - for that person it will feel like they have won the sweep! There is a sense of achievement attached to it which they would be deprived of otherwise.

I could liken it to me finishing 55th in the Irish Open for 4k - id be chuffed and would feel a sense of serious achievement - Wouldnt I be rightly pi$$ed if Phil Ivey decided that only the final table be paid as hed be pi$$ed to play 20 hours poker for 4k.. As I said its all relative and the lads are trying to bring this tourney to the mass market - in order to do that it should be the same in every way to the IOpen - to comprimise it would take seriously from it.

Thats just my view.

ditpoker

BigCityBanker wrote:

Lets say a relative newbie plays and this is their first major tournament with propper structure etc.. 600 players, 60 get paid - they finish 55th and get 160€ - for that person it will feel like they have won the sweep! There is a sense of achievement attached to it which they would be deprived of otherwise.

I could liken it to me finishing 55th in the Irish Open for 4k - id be chuffed and would feel a sense of serious achievement - Wouldnt I be rightly pi$$ed if Phil Ivey decided that only the final table be paid as hed be pi$$ed to play 20 hours poker for 4k.. As I said its all relative and the lads are trying to bring this tourney to the mass market - in order to do that it should be the same in every way to the IOpen - to comprimise it would take seriously from it.

as the man says... this is spot on!

LuckyLloyd

ditpoker wrote:

as the man says... this is spot on!

comparing 3.5k and 150quid buy - ins to prove a point is not spot on. They are very different things.

phantom_lord

I dunno about u two but I'm not gonna play it hoping to make 4k!

anyway, I agree with Lloyd here, the payout should be less than top 10%, i dunno what exactly tho, 6-7% maybe?

5starpool

I disagree with Lloyd on this one even though I won't be able to play sadly. 10% should be paid, as to do otherwise would distort peoples views of tournament poker if they were not experienced.

Also, to be honest I would be a lot more pissed at coming 12th and getting squat than coming 55th and getting money back.

califano

Just once how about for this tournament with the initially suggested buyin for the structure and payout to be voted for and decided by arm count and majority rule only after registering and seats taken?.

"Ok lads how about top 20 paid? Lets have a show of hands?"

"Right lads how about top 10% to be payed? Lets have a show of hands?"

"Ok thats the payout decided now lets vote on the structure. Right lads hands up for 10k stacks 60 minute blinds all levels incl, hands up for this?.

"Alrite a lot of you want to watch the match on sunday so hands up for 8k stacks 40 minute blinds?."

"Come on lads we havent got all day its perfectly simple"?.

RasTa

It will be the longest bubble in history if top 20 get paid out of 600-800.

Doc Farrell

LuckyLloyd wrote:

comparing 3.5k and 150quid buy - ins to prove a point is not spot on. They are very different things.

very regular players might prefer if only the last table gets paid but if 60 out of 600 don't at least get some cash back then you will never get these numbers again.

150 bucks for 30th might not seem worth it for those who contribute here but for many young players it makes all the difference in the world.

advertise it as 'only the final table get in the money' and i don't see the numbers hitting 100. or am i wrong...?

5starpool

Doc Farrell wrote:

very regular players might prefer if only the last table gets paid but if 60 out of 600 don't at least get some cash back then you will never get these numbers again.

150 bucks for 30th might not seem worth it for those who contribute here but for many young players it makes all the difference in the world.

advertise it as 'only the final table get in the money' and i don't see the numbers hitting 100. or am i wrong...?

For once Des you are spot on.

LuckyLloyd

Well folks, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree. I am quite frankly surprised at some of the stuff I have read in this thread so far. People are suggesting that getting your money back in a tournament would be of concern to a player in a €150 tourney.

If it was a concern, then they shouldn't (and largely wouldn't) be playing a tourney of that buyin.

Noel's assertion that he would be delighted with a 4k first paying postion in the Irish Open just proves the point I am trying to make. A first paying position would be a result for Noel (as it would be for me) because he is on the cheap for €250 approx. 4k is a lot of money, €150 isn't (given the current realities of the Irish Economy).

4k for three days work at the IO will seem worthwile - €200 for three days work at this proposed tourney won't. And I don't see how 55th of 600 for €200 feels any better than 55th of 600 for nothing. But I can definately see how 18th of 600 for €1500 would feel a hell of a lot better than 18th of 600 for €450.

We should be entertaining and welcoming of the prospect of a fantastically structured, professionally run two day event that offers good paydays for the final two tables irrespective of runners - all for €150.

I think that is very marketable, and isn't rendered unworkable because of the lack of the standard payout. Just because something hasn't been done before doesn't make it a bad idea.

Someone said "but it would be such a long bubble if you did it that way". So? The prospect of playing such a bubble excites me.

Finally, I would suggest that anyone who is worried about the first paying position when playing tournaments that are less than €500 need to take a serious look in the mirror and ask themselves if they haven't got better places for the money before they play.

That's it, make of it what you will. :rolleyes:

sikes

Talking about absolute values in poker is usually meaningless. There will be sats into the Im sure too.

Having a steep bubble can tie your hands down and not let you play "correctly" to make a run for the higher paying places. Similar to the effect of a satellite bubble.

Tinytony

As a player who wouldn't play many tournaments with a buy-in over €100 I think it would be a disaster if this tournament only paid the final table. Definately think the standard 10% pay-out should apply, i would definately rather get my money back after three days play than get nothing.

There is no way this tournament will attract the numbers stephen is looking for if only the final table get payed. I think, what stephen is trying to do is give recreational players a chance to experience the buzz of a wsop/IO style tournament without the big buy in. The recreational player will see no point in playing a tournament if only the final table get paid ( I certainly wouldn't play myself if this was the case). Imagine a lad from the country coming up, staying in dublin for two nights to get sent packing in 12th place with nothing to show for it?

5starpool

LuckyLloyd wrote:

We should be entertaining and welcoming of the prospect of a fantastically structured, professionally run two day event that offers good paydays for the final two tables irrespective of runners - all for €150.

Lloyd, I strongly disagree with the notion that paying the top 3% in a tournament is a well structured event. Payout is part of the structure and 18/600 is ridiculous, and thankfully Stephen won't be taking your drivel (with all due respect) on board. The entry fee is irrelevant in this argument imo.

Flushdraw

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Noel's assertion that he would be delighted with a 4k first paying postion in the Irish Open just proves the point I am trying to make. A first paying position would be a result for Noel (as it would be for me) because he is on the cheap for €250 approx. 4k is a lot of money, €150 isn't (given the current realities of the Irish Economy).

I'm hoping to qualify for the IO but if i dont, i'll try and get a ticket on the cheap and if all else fails i'll probably fork out the €3500 to play the ME. My first goal will be to get in the top 63 and get €4k. It could take the best part of 3 days to get this far for a profit of €500 and if thats as far as i get, i'll be relatively happy, if somewhat disappointed

I'm pretty sure that a lot of students or players that dont play many big tournies will probably treat Stephens game the same way as i will the IO. Making their 150 back while outlasting 600 or 700 player will be a mean achievement and i think we need to encourage players to play the event rather than turn them away if they feel they have no chance of making the FT. I think pay as many as you can, get a big crowd in and have a cracking tournie. I'll be defo there to play and i'm looking forward to it

Doc Farrell

Having being disturbed by 5starpools agreement I have looked at my views and accept that they are wrong.
I now agree with Lloyd.
ty.

5starpool

Doc Farrell wrote:

Having being disturbed by 5starpools agreement I have looked at my views and accept that they are wrong.
I now agree with Lloyd.
ty.

lol

Solksjaer

I symphatise with Lloyds view but 600+ in an event like this will contain a lot of guys having a go at a tournament like this for the 1st time, the amount of cash they receive may pale in comparison to the thrill of 'getting in the money' in a big tournament. It's this thrill that will bring them back. For the big value tourny guys out there it may be an annoyance to have a big bubble but looking at the bigger picture, ie the promotion of tournament poker. I think it will be a good thing. I'd myslef would like the top 18 paid only but then that just a personal view. I can see many more reasons for the top 10% being paid from a marketing standpoint.....hope this makes sense.


Good luck with it.

phantom_lord

I think paying out the entry is pointless, and that that level of payout should be removed and the % paid adjusted according. eg, if the bottom 10% of the 10% paid is money back, then the top 9% should be paid instead.

Like in the io remove the 4k level and distribute it amongst the higher levels, although it's understandable in that tourny since so many entrants are satellited in. but for a €150 tourny or whatever it isn't.


Paying out the ft or even final 2 tables in a 600+ runner tournament is ridiculous tho.

BIG-SLICK-POKER

I know where ye are coming from but i would not like to be on the bubble after payin 150 in with 60 Players to go after 3 days playing to get my money back It is just not big enough an event for this payout especially if u are saying it is a 3 day event this would put me off personally ... different with a big buy in i agree with Llyod on this to a degree , but on this i have based my own structured payout which might look ok


Last 4 tables payout for

500 players payout 150 entry with 25 reg included

Total payout €62500




1st - €17000
2nd- €11000
3rd- €7500
4th- €5000
5th- €4000
6th- €3000
7th- €2000
8th- €1500
9th- €1000
10th-€800
11th-14th -650
15th-18th -500
19th-23rd -400
24th-27th -300
28th-36th -200


Neill K

5starpool

7.2% is different to 3% tbh. I still think the 10% where first knocked out in the money not necessarily getting only their money back. 10 places of 250, 10 of 400 and then slightly more staggered is a better option.

Doc Farrell

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Well folks, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.

I'm sorry, I can't agree to this.
I would ask the moderator to intervene if it wasn't the Incredible Hulk also known as Dom.

sikes

If you start making the inital payout step too high in relation to the buyin, you will find that your ev will drop becuase we will often find ourselves needing to limp into the money, as missing it would be too critical to our ROI and the risk/reward in $ terms isn't worth it. To say that its only x amount is pretty irrevelant when talking about your expecation in a tournament.

The reason the bubble is so profitable is that we can set ourselves up for a push at the higher placings at the risk of a ~1.3 buyin, when everyone else is playing tight.

5starpool

Doc Farrell wrote:

I'm sorry, I can't agree to this.
I would ask the moderator to intervene if it wasn't the Incredible Hulk also known as Dom.

You should get an award for lifetime contribution to the forum with insightful posts such as this Des.

Also, you won't have to put up with me for the next while as I shall be incommunicado until the 21st, so ta ta.

Doc Farrell

i was of course refering to your self described rage issues rather than your dress sense or skin pigmentation.
enjoy your holiday old bean.

carfax

Hi,

Ok I've just had to spend the last half an hour catching up with this thread so I just want to clarify a couple of points.....

1. This is going to be a massive project for Derek and I so anyone that wants to get on board and help out please do over the coming months......The biggest help you can give is just to say to any novice/beginner players that you know to play in this tournament and to check out www.pokerireland.ie 'cos it rules.......
-Please don't mention the number 600 as we have already said that we are aiming for 1,000 players......If we end up getting 750/800 then fair enough but until then its a 1,000 runner event as far as I'm concerned.-

2. The blind structure and payout structure will be modelled directly off of the EPT/WSOP......This tournament is going to introduce a lot of recreational players to a serious, professional tournament at a fraction of the cost that they would otherwise pay, we're going to make sure they get a very similar experience and bring the same strategy etc into play.....

3. The venue is still to be confirmed and as this is the most important aspect right now I'm just going to concentrate on that.....However, I would like to get player's opinions on the buy-in of the event......It will be extremely hard for us to cover our costs so I'm leaning towards a €125+€25 reg???....Approx €35,000 for the winner.

5starpool

125+25 should be fine. If people complain then don't listen to them. As you have witnessed countless times, you cannot please everyone. 20% on top entry for a well run, high turnout event is fine as far as I am concerned as most other 3 day events would have a much higher reg fee, albeit with lower turnout, but also lower costs.

You should actually make it 25+125 since I can't play that weekend, and pay top 40%.

carfax

5starpool wrote:

You should actually make it 25+125 since I can't play that weekend, and pay top 40%.

lol.....

The Clamper

What i love about these posts is the guys all talkin about the payout structure

just 2 points:

1. You have to be in it to win it
2. You have to be able to play well to make the money end of the event, so why would they be worrying themselves about payouts?

in all seriousness, this will be a new concept, it will give the normal player the chance to play a professionally managed event with major prize money for a nominal fee.

usually these size prize pools are reserved for the professionals who can afford (or their sponsor can afford) a 2/3k entry fee

the payout structure used in the NSPC is on a sliding scale of %'s based upon the number of entrants, i.e. the same as used by EPT etc.

its simple
its easy
its open book

the winner would still get 20k +

oh and by the way

this event will be full, i.e. 1,000 players and not 5 or 6 or 7 hundred as some people seem to think. F U L L once the venue is announced, i respectfully suggest you get your booking in early. and before anyine asks, the answer is NO,, we wont let anyone in once the 1000 mark is reached. and for the record, i already have 56 players listed as definitely playing, and its only a week since Carfax announced the possibility of the event.
we will shortly announce the details in full, negotiations are in play with 2 sponsors, which could potentially add more value to the prize pool.

thanks for taking the time to read this

and remember, Park legally, you know it makes sence

The Clamper :cool:

LuckyLloyd

The Clamper wrote:

What i love about these posts is the guys all talkin about the payout structure

just 2 points:

1. You have to be in it to win it
2. You have to be able to play well to make the money end of the event, so why would they be worrying themselves about payouts?

If I play this tournament I will fully expect to make the final table. What would be the point otherwise?

30something

The Clamper wrote:

and remember, Park legally, you know it makes sence

Hehe - nearly pi$$ed myself (with the spelling "sense")

On a serious note, as the organisers are trying to re-create a WSOP atmoshphere at a cheap buy-in, it makes perfect sense that the payout structure also be similar.

Reserve me a seat please.

jebusmusic

If we're stickin names down now then I'll take a seat too please mister!

carfax

jebusmusic wrote:

If we're stickin names down now then I'll take a seat too please mister!

Hee hee, cheers mate....So many things to organise at the moment. Will be taking names very soon but players will also need to register through www.pokerireland.ie when the time comes.

"That 'owl www.pokerireland.ie site is bleedin' great isn't it"......Live updates will be there tonight (Thursday March 15th) from Fitzpatrick's Casino, Tait's Corner, Glenworth Street, Limerick in our Irish Open €220 Freezeout Satellite......

The Clamper

i'm so glad that someone spotted the deliberate mistake in spelling "sense" give that man a biscuit, and a slap on the back, make it a really hard one, like so hard he falls over, why i oughta,,,,,,,,,,

carfax

Just wanted to let you all know that we have been working away quietly on this idea......Its probably going to go ahead later than June (prob end of the Summer when everyone is around).....But it is going ahead nonetheless......

We'll announce as much detail as we can asap.

SuperHans

Would there be online satellites to this, or will it only be possible to buy in directly?

carfax

SuperHans wrote:

Would there be online satellites to this, or will it only be possible to buy in directly?

Yeah there'll be a load of freerolls and satellites hopefully......Just depends on if we can get the venue right and make sure we are going to get a massive crowd......

SuperHans

Sounds like a great event. I'm deffo up for it.