paying for neighbour's electricity - law regarding this

pwd

The situation is described in a post on the accommodation & property form:

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055063978

Does anyone know the legal position on this. It's straigtforward theft no?

johnnyskeleton

To be theft there must be, among other things, an element of dishonesty and an intention to deprive or cause a loss to the rightful owner of the property. With regards to a service, there is a further requirement that this is done by decpetion. The provision is:

Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act, 2001

7.—(1) A person who dishonestly, with the intention of making a gain for himself or herself or another, or of causing loss to another, by any deception obtains services from another is guilty of an offence.

(2) For the purposes of this section a person obtains services from another where the other is induced to confer a benefit on some person by doing some act, or causing or permitting some act to be done, on the understanding that the benefit has been or will be paid for.

(3) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (2), a person obtains services where the other is induced to make a loan, or to cause or permit a loan to be made, on the understanding that any payment (whether by way of interest or otherwise) will be or has been made in respect of the loan.

(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on conviction on indictment to a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or both.

So while I haven't read the other thread and would not advise on that, the mere fact of paying for your neighbour's electricty does not mean that they are stealing from you. It could be a mistake by the esb or, if it is an apartment block, the landlord/managment company. Furthermore, under a lease you could potentially be required to pay for your neighbour's electricty [which is why you should always read a lease carefully and seek legal advice where appropriate]

timmywex

pwd wrote:

The situation is described in a post on the accommodation & property form:

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055063978

Does anyone know the legal position on this. It's straigtforward theft no?

it can't be theft most of the time as if the place is rented, the person could presume the landlord gets the bill

Jo King

It could well be theft by the landlord. It is difficult to imagine that the landlord does not know of the situation. There is a flat which has no independent power supply and which the ESB has never given an account. It may well be that the second flat was created illegally by the subdivision of a larger flat and was never independently wired to cover this up. It may also be part of a tax dodge.
I cannot imagine a lease where someone would be asked to take on on an open-ended basis responsibility for electricity used by someone else. The landlord should be advised that the Garda, tax office and city planners will be notified unless the situation is rectified ASAP.

dermot_sheehan

There's a civil cause of action for negligence, possibly fraud, and maybe breach of contract against the landlord. There's a cause of action against the person receiving free electricity for restitution, I doubt anything could be proven to a criminal standard.

Tell Landlord you regard it as negligence and/or fradulent for you to be paying for you co-tenant's electricity. Let him sort out how he recoup's the cost.

pwd

Thanks for your responses. I have posted again on the original thread after talking to the landlord. I am inclined to believe he was unaware of the situation. He's been quite reasonable so far. I don't think we'll need to "play hardball" with him to get our money back. His stance is that he knew nothing of it and will sort it out immediately.

Victor

There is a separate offence under the electricity / ESB acts of stealing electricity that might not depend on a dishonesty factor.

Our man in Havana

That would only happen it a person was interfering with the ESB meter or abstracting the electricity before it reached the meter.

pwd

"There is a flat which has no independent power supply and which the ESB has never given an account. It may well be that the second flat was created illegally by the subdivision of a larger flat and was never independently wired to cover this up. It may also be part of a tax dodge."

We've been in touch with him some more. He seems to be refusing to change the meters because it is complicated because the esb only have him down as having 4 flats in a building where there are 5.
He has said he would pay us back a reaonable amount if we made a suggestion, and gave us 500 euro to cover the largest bill months ago as a gesture to indicate his goodwill.