Wales get done

zuutroy

That was unbelievable! 3 points down with a penalty, they decided to go for the corner as the ref said there was time....then he blew up after the kick went into touch....shocking decision.

Bit of madness at the end there for Wales! Which is gonna take from the fact that the people's champions that are the Italians, have had their best tournament of all time!

Basically, down by 3 points, Wales had a penalty in the Italian 22, James Hook asked the ref if there was time left, he said 10 seconds, so Hook kicked to touch to take the line out and drive for the line, and the win. When the ball went into touch, the 4th official told the ref that time was up and he blew the whistle for end of match.

So, it seems as though Wales were robbed of a chance to win, but at the same time, full credit to Italy!

Royale with Cheese

Unreal. There should be serious reprucssions over that incident. Teams say they get robbed by the ref all the time but you'll never see a clearer case of it than that. He should certainly never ref another Welsh game again.

RuggieBear

ah the welsh deserved it for all thier cheating

besides there was time when they kicked it.....it just expired before they had a chance to form a lineout

is_that_so

Damage was done three minutes earlier with Italian try tbh.

Royale with Cheese

Shutup ruggiebear. If that had happened to Ireland this thread would be 4 pages long already.

RuggieBear

hehe...tis true

Chucky the tree

Who the try scorer? The lad who should of been sent off for trying to take Jones' head off. Troncon got away with a stamp right infron of the ref and he did nothing. He was a joke today.

RuggieBear

Chucky the tree wrote:

Who the try scorer? The lad who should of been sent off for trying to take Jones' head off. Troncon got away with a stamp right infron of the ref and he did nothing. He was a joke today.

thought he had a mare alright.

is_that_so

Agreed but he wasn't sent off as the offence was missed. Wales to me were not good enough , for all their huffing and puffing. Quality wise it was a poor game with loads of errors but great entertainment. Pleased tor the Italians and it is good for rugby.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

copacetic

thought the ref didn't give them much, but in the end the right call was made. He said there were 10 secs left just as there was and said do it now, but wales didn't, he was confirming it when they kicked. By the time the ball went into touch it was 3 secs over time and he was told to blow up over the headpiece. You could hear him saying 'but you told me there was 10 secs left' but what could he do then? He had to blow up, people have got to remember the ref isn't in charge of the timekeeping anymore.

I thought his bad decisions were the knock on he gave after an off the ball tackle on the welsh player in the corner and the the 5 metre scrum he gave italy when Wales had stolen the ball off them

Vorsprung

Yea the ref got it very wrong there!!

Stupid decision to go for the corner and not just go for draw though.

Royale with Cheese

daveym wrote:

thought the ref didn't give them much, but in the end the right call was made. He said there were 10 secs left just as there was and said do it now, but wales didn't,

He said do it now, 3 seconds later Hook had kicked the ball into touch. Anyway by saying there was 10 seconds left it meant Wales had 10 second to kick the ball out. The whistle can't be blown if the ball goes out before time up. It doesn't have to be thrown in before 80 minutes is on the clock.

What actually happened is that there wasn't 10 seconds left, 80 minutes was on the clock the time Wales had asked. He told them the wrong information and then the 4th official said time up as it was after the 80 minute mark when the ball crossed the touch line.

RuggieBear

i thought he allowed the welsh to slow down italian ball all game...welsh should have conceded a heap of penalties

peckerhead

I just hope Bergamasco gets cited for that puck in the eye he gave Steve Jones. Completely uncalled for, just a nasty dig he knew the ref wouldn't see.

Glad for Italy, but yeah, I did feel for the Welsh lads. What a way to lose... :eek:

copacetic

Royale with Cheese wrote:

He said do it now, 3 seconds later Hook had kicked the ball into touch. Anyway by saying there was 10 seconds left it meant Wales had 10 second to kick the ball out. The whistle can't be blown if the ball goes out before time up. It doesn't have to be thrown in before 80 minutes is on the clock.

What actually happened is that there wasn't 10 seconds left, 80 minutes was on the clock the time Wales had asked. He told them the wrong information and then the 4th official said time up as it was after the 80 minute mark when the ball crossed the touch line.

I understand the rule alright. would like to see it again as thats not quite how I remember it. What I saw was the time definitely wasn't up when Wales asked there were 10s left, maybe 8s when he told wales, they did a bit of looking around while time ticked on and he tried to hurry them up. They eventually kicked with 80 mins gone and by the time the ball crossed the line it was 3 secs over. Game over.
Could be wrong but thats what I saw.

I do think though that in this case it wasn't the refs fault, he just passed on what he was told via the headset. He isn't running the time. Should be on youtube soon..

Royale with Cheese

I'm not 100% sure about the timing either. Will have to see it again.

copacetic

Royale with Cheese wrote:

I'm not 100% sure about the timing either. Will have to see it again.

watching the last 6 mins at the mo..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPR_Q1f31vQ

ok I was wrong! He tells them there is 10 secs left when there
is only 5, then says if you do it now and then goes to check again over the mike
that there is 10 left when there isn't.
The ref asked with 8 left, gets told 10, tells the lads with 4-5 left
and then it takes that long for Hook to kick, it actually ticks to 80 mins
just as Hook kicks it..

So they were shafted but not by the ref, the guy on the other end
of the mic needs a slapping.

it's about 4.05 into the video..

RuggieBear

pen awarded on 79.39.

Wales Asked how long left 79.55.. told 10 seconds

ref asks TMO how long left at 80.12...told at 80.17 there is no time

Ref blow whistle 80.19

Royale with Cheese

Ball crossed the line at about 80.02... which is within the 10 second Wales thought they had.

copacetic

Royale with Cheese wrote:

Ball crossed the line at about 80.02... which is within the 10 second Wales thought they had.

yep, they deffo had time if they had of been giving the right info..

MooseJam

The ending was gas i lol'd at the welsh

phog

Royale with Cheese wrote:

Unreal. There should be serious reprucssions over that incident. Teams say they get robbed by the ref all the time but you'll never see a clearer case of it than that. He should certainly never ref another Welsh game again.

Why so? Hook kicked the ball out but Wales made no effort to take the lineout, 10 seconds passed and the ref blew the final whistle, the clock was ticking and the ball was out of play so the ref could end the game once 80 minutes passed.

Even if they were allowed to take the lineout there is no way of knowing if Walse would have scored - hard to say they were robbed, especially when you see Italy were called back earlier in the game for a knockon/forward pass when it was actually touched by a Welsh player.

All this decision (blowing up the game on 80 mins.) does it allow Wales a bit of breathing space with their supporters/media.

Royale with Cheese

phog wrote:

Why so? Hook kicked the ball out but Wales made no effort to take the lineout, 10 seconds passed and the ref blew the final whistle, the clock was ticking and the ball was out of play so the ref could end the game once 80 minutes passed.

Even if they were allowed to take the lineout there is no way of knowing if Walse would have scored - hard to say they were robbed, especially when you see Italy were called back earlier in the game for a knockon/forward pass when it was actually touched by a Welsh player.

All this decision (blowing up the game on 80 mins.) does it allow Wales a bit of breathing space with their supporters/media.

Read my other posts, read up on the rules of the game and shutup

Wales didn't need to be in a hurry to take the line out because they thought they'd kicked it into touch within the 80 minutes. It didn't have to be thrown in before the 80 minutes were up.

If they were told the truth, that there wasn't enough time for another phase... they would have taken the 3 points and drawn the game. I can't believe anybody is trying to argue what happened at the end of the game was fair.

Hermy

Originally posted on the "Best Ref" thread.

oasisfan wrote:

...he told welsh centre James Hook that he had enough time to go for touch...

...but he (Chris White) did not say whether there would be enough time for a line-out, nor did anyone ask him if there would be time for said line-out!

copacetic

Hermy wrote:

Originally posted on the "Best Ref" thread.



...but he (Chris White) did not say whether there would be enough time for a line-out, nor did anyone ask him if there would be time for said line-out!

Read Royale's posts again, you don't seem to understand the rule either.

oasisfan

SORRY ARE DAVYM AND ROYALE WITH CHEESE the only people that know what their talking about the ref informed JHook that he had time to go for touch and in rugby terms this means that their was time for the lineout as if you opt for touch it involves the follow up of a lineout... now had it been 79.40 mins gone and they went for touch they could have taken as long as they wanted some one could have been substituted whatever they felt like so it was nothing to do with how long it F ing took them to walk up to the lineout the ref blew end of discussion.... so dont comment unless you understand the rules of the sport this should not be an argument THE REF WAS IN THE WRONG! FACT!

Ponster

oasisfan wrote:

...the ref informed JHook that he had time to go for touch and in rugby terms this means that their was time for the lineout...

Well not exactly, one doesn't mean the other though it may seem like it does but

robbed from Gwlad

JH; "How long's left", 79:53 (note he does not ask about the line out here)
CW; "Ten seconds", 79:56
JH; "Can we go for the lineout?" 79:57
CW; "Yeah if you do it now, ten seconds gentleman, there are ten seconds" 79: 58 ( the urgency is clear "do it now!") - does this amount to coaching?
JH Kicks to touch 80;00
CW Blows up 80:19

White was at fault for telling Wales they had 10 seconds left when in fact they only had 3 or 4

JH was at fault for going for a lineout instead of taking the 3 points and a draw.

Goodluck2me

if they go for the posts, i presume the kicker still gets the full minute to do it.

Kristopherus

CW gave Wales fcuk all of the 50/50 breakdowns. I've no love for the Welsh, but CW went out of his way to "accomdate " the azzuri today. Should be cited as well as the Italian guy !!!!!

copacetic

Ponster wrote:

Well not exactly, one doesn't mean the other though it may seem like it does but

How so? My understanding of law 5.7 is that is exactly what it means. If they had time to put the ball in touch from the pen a lineout is automatically awarded once the ball leaves the field of play.

(e) If time expires and the ball is not dead, or an awarded scrum or
lineout has not been completed the referee allows play to continue
until the next time that the ball becomes dead. If time expires and
a mark, free kick or penalty kick is then awarded, the referee allows
play to continue.

oasisfan

i presume that CW knew when JHook asked if there was time for a kick to touch that he intended for their follow up lineout to be taken They should have been allowed take the lineout its as simple as that and i hope that clown of a ref is talked to by the branch as it is unexceptable he was not on form today and with technology in sports today there should have been no reason for yellow cards not to be shown and the time to be conducted properly.....its funny how people are trying to stick up for the ref he is in the wrong! Ah well im sure Wales are over it now, thats what rugby is about and they have to be able deal with desicions like these!

Marshy

Admirably Chris White has apologised.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/6439245.stm

zokrez

White said there was 10 seconds left when there was actually 4 seconds left. Therefore he misled Hook.

If there really was 10 seconds left, Hook completed the kick in time.

As there was only 4 seconds left, Hook ended the game by kicking into touch.

Warren tells White that time is up and White blows up.

In the interest of fairness he should have done one of 2 things: (1) allowed the lineout to be taken or (2) allowed the kick to be taken.

I don't think he would have had the right to bring back for the kick as the kick had not been selected.

At €20K per man, the kick was an expensive one !

It's unfortunate but now over.

Sangre

Actually, didn't the Irish came expire on a Scottish penalty? I thought that was a bit odd.

copacetic

Marshy wrote:

Admirably Chris White has apologised.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/6439245.stm

can't believed they pinched my post on the rule!

Fair dues to him for apologising at least.

copacetic

Sangre wrote:

Actually, didn't the Irish came expire on a Scottish penalty? I thought that was a bit odd.

didn't we have the ball, i don't think it was a penalty to them..

Chucky the tree

Sangre wrote:

Actually, didn't the Irish came expire on a Scottish penalty? I thought that was a bit odd.

The irish game was stopped after 80 minutes because of the injury to ROG.

Royale with Cheese

Watched the bit on it during the half time of today's game. Doesn't sound like it was Chris White's fault at all. The 4th official told Chris White there was 10 seconds left, he told him there would be time for the line out (note Hook and subsequently White did actually ask if there was time for a lineout, not just a penalty) and then he told him to blow up cos there was not time left.

I'm not sure of the rules, if White has to follow what the 4th official said and blow the whistle. Common sense would have told him to allow the lineout... but in the end it sounds like it was mostly the 4th official's fault.

RuggieBear

Royale with Cheese wrote:

Watched the bit on it during the half time of today's game. Doesn't sound like it was Chris White's fault at all. The 4th official told Chris White there was 10 seconds left, he told him there would be time for the line out (note Hook and subsequently White did actually ask if there was time for a lineout, not just a penalty) and then he told him to blow up cos there was not time left.

I'm not sure of the rules, if White has to follow what the 4th official said and blow the whistle. Common sense would have told him to allow the lineout... but in the end it sounds like it was mostly the 4th official's fault.

White is the referee. He is the final arbiter and he should not be relying on anyone else. If he wanted to play another hour then he would be quite entitled to.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

copacetic

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

He did you know. It may be just BBCs attempt to match the official time but the TMO is in their truck running the time off their equipment too. They played it again on the BBC today with the reftalk sound turned up and the TMO called time up bang on the 80 mins according to the clock on the screen.

zAbbo

daveym wrote:

He did you know. It may be just BBCs attempt to match the official time but the TMO is in their truck running the time off their equipment too. They played it again on the BBC today with the reftalk sound turned up and the TMO called time up bang on the 80 mins according to the clock on the screen.

Yeah that snipped on the BBC was good with the reftalk turned up, White asked the TMO once the ball was dead if there was time for the lineout, the TMO kept repeating 'I've got TIME'

Actually I'm not sure, I'd like to see that BBC bit again, from watching it, it seemed like White bottled the decision twice, first for the decision on the penalty options, and on the time.

Ponster

RuggieBear wrote:

White is the referee. He is the final arbiter and he should not be relying on anyone else. If he wanted to play another hour then he would be quite entitled to.

I thought that since last year the timing was no longer controlled by the ref. He gets told when to end the match?

RuggieBear

Ponster wrote:

I thought that since last year the timing was no longer controlled by the ref. He gets told when to end the match?

That's a new one on me....suppose it makes sense as he should have loads to look after as it is.

nacho libre

To not take the three points was not only stupid but disrespectful to Italy. If that was against France they would have opted to take the three points in my opinion.

randomname2005

RuggieBear wrote:

That's a new one on me....suppose it makes sense as he should have loads to look after as it is.

In high level matches the ref is no longer the sole judge of law and fact. If they were then there would be no need for video refs and time keepers.

R

nacho libre

nacho libre wrote:

To not take the three points was not only stupid but disrespectful to Italy. If that was against France they would have opted to take the three points in my opinion.

Not really. At this stage of the tournament they may as well have thrown caution to the wind and gone for a win. Remember they have yet to win a match this 6 nations. They figured their best chance would be against Italy.

Would you expect Ireland to settle for a draw with Italy?

nacho libre

Deleted User wrote:

Not really. At this stage of the tournament they may as well have thrown caution to the wind and gone for a win. Remember they have yet to win a match this 6 nations. They figured their best chance would be against Italy.

Would you expect Ireland to settle for a draw with Italy?

A draw when it's on offer is better than losing all of your matches. For most of the second half Wales couldn't breach Italy's defence. It's time Italy are given credit for their performances.

damnyanks

They did well to get the win but it was a weak Wales, Scotland didn't help themselves at all.

Previous to that France hammered them and England controlled the game but couldn't get the tries.

The game this weekend will give a better picture of where Italy are.