Ireland -vs- Wales

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Well, it's going to be the first game of soccer played at Croker.

But, although I can't see Ireland getting anything from the group at this stage, given the recent run of (non-)form, I still think our manager believes we can. It's going to be very hard to take anything from the Wales game as I feel it will take time for the confidence-depleted Ireland team to settle into the new surroundings (it happened to the ruggists aswell).

John Toshack has announced his squad

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/6439991.stm

PRman

It'll be a tough game alright - Bellamy is the danger man. At least a few players seem to be back to form like Keane, Duff and O'Shea. Here's what I think the starting XI should be. 1. Given 2. Finnan. 3. O'Shea 4. Dunne. 5. O'Dea. 6. McGeady. 7. Ireland. 8. Carsley 9. Keane. 10. Doyle. 11. Duff. Anyone agree/disagree? You need to play your form players.....

mike65

Duff form player?

Mike.

eirebhoy

As bad as we're playing under Stan, Wales really do have a poor team.

Lewis Price (Ipswich Town)

Richard Duffy (Swansea)
Danny Gabbidon (West Ham United)
Lewin Nyatanga (Barnsley)
Gareth Bale (Southampton)

Craig Morgan (Peterborough United)
Carl Robinson (Toronto FC)
Carl Fletcher (Crystal Palace)
Simon Davies (Fulham)

Ryan Giggs (Manchester United)
Craig Bellamy (Liverpool)

PRman

Well I did hear he did well the other night - For Duff I suppose I meant he's back playing which is good 4 him lately.....

Yeah that's a poor welsh team alright but they'll be big up for the game. In Bellamy and Giggs they have two players that can turn any game.... The bouncers of Lillies and Crystal should be on the lookout this week and not let Keane or any of the other garglers in... You seen how poor the rugby lads were after some hard partying last weekend.

shane86

We can still qualify with a bit of lucky results from the rest (two preferably goaless draws from the Czech vs Germany in particular would be nice, as well as for both teams to be beatn by both ourselves and an underdog with absoloutely no hope of qualifying) .

One of our main problems has been that we have failed to find anyone remotely good enough to fill Givens shoes when hes injured, and unfortunately he has had a bad run of it over the last year.

I know alot of people never rated him highly but Clinton Morrison would be a welcome addition on past form (I have to admit I havent been watching him lately and no nothing of his current form). Did him and Stan hate each other or something? He hasnt got a game since Switzerland far as i recall.

Royale with Cheese

shane86 wrote:

We can still qualify with a bit of lucky results from the rest (two preferably goaless draws from the Czech vs Germany in particular would be nice, as well as for both teams to be beatn by both ourselves and an underdog with absoloutely no hope of qualifying) .

One of our main problems has been that we have failed to find anyone remotely good enough to fill Givens shoes when hes injured, and unfortunately he has had a bad run of it over the last year.

I know alot of people never rated him highly but Clinton Morrison would be a welcome addition on past form (I have to admit I havent been watching him lately and no nothing of his current form). Did him and Stan hate each other or something? He hasnt got a game since Switzerland far as i recall.

That would be Ireland.

PHB

On a side note, has anyone recieved their tickets yet?

eirebhoy

Not yet. Should receive them in the next few days.

The Rooster

Havent got my tickets yet either.

There's a picture of the bucket seats on the Hill in todays Irish Times. It seems to be a neater job than Lansdowne (not to mention 100% safer) as the seats fit directly onto the terrace - no temporary structure needed to place the seats on.

Anyone know what the revised capacity is?

PRman

shane86 wrote:

Clinton Morrison - He hasnt got a game since Switzerland far as i recall.

He was in the squad that got hammered by Cyprus. Pains me to be reminded of that night. He probably deserves to be in the squad, though I certainly wouldn't start him. Yeah the bucket seats look far better. Capacity is around 76,000 I think. The FAI have probably got the tickets arseways as usual.... You'll probably receive them the Monday after the match

eirebhoy

76,000 I think.

/Prman got there first.

mickith

think this will be a tough game but the lads will be up for it and hopefully we can get a result. i think the danger men in the welsh team will be bellamy, giggs and koumas. if giggs and koumas are given time and space to play they will cut us open. i hope stan puts out some of the young lads and let them show what we are about.
i think david conolly should be back in the squad. he seems to be grabbin a few goals for sunderland lately.

tetsujin1979

mickith wrote:

i think the danger men in the welsh team will be bellamy, giggs and koumas.

Koumas is suspended

Limerick Dude

mike65 wrote:

Duff form player?

Mike.

yep in the past 2 or 3 games for Newcastle he has played well, he finally seems to be settling in, he was class against Az on thursday and hopefully he will be the same this thursday again.

The Rooster

I see from the FAI website that the kickoff is 3pm on Saturday.

I was sure it was a 7.30pm kickoff. Has it always been scheduled as a 3pm start?

Bateman

Got my tickets. Deifnitely a 3pm start AFAIK, on the FAI site as such.

John_C

I got my tickets a few days ago and 3pm is on them.

The Rooster

Yeah, I think back in November they said all the home games were likely to have a 7.30pm kick-off, but obviously something has changed between then and now. A pity really, a floodlit night game would have added even more to the game.

Lemlin

Considering the defence Ireland have, this is what would worry me:

Ryan Giggs (Manchester United)
Craig Bellamy (Liverpool)

I pray to God that Shay Given never gets injured for another Irish international.

leninbenjamin

i would hate to see the first soccer in croker and the Irish not up for it. i just hope they ignore whatever crap stan tries to put in their heads (as it clearly hasn't been working) and just play like they can. Robbie needs to put in a few performances to justify that armband i feel, he's been hopeless as a captain. and we're gonna need big performances out of the lads in midfield, if Giggs and Bellamy get too much on the ball we could be in for it.

odonnell

good luck against the welsh on the weekend...

The Rooster

Just got my Cusack Stand tickets for the Wales and Slovakia matches.

"Cusack Stand Upper Tier Section 715" say the tickets.

Fantastic, apart from the fact that I'm a Croke Park regular as well as an Ireland regualr, so I know that the Canal/Davin End starts at Section 713 and runs to Section 724.

I've been a block booker for a number of years, I'm glad to be going and if I was told in advance I'd be getting Canal/Davin tickets I wouldnt have minded.

But why the fook those w@nkers in the FAI choose to con their own supporters is just beyond me.

Kingp35

Just got an email off the FAI this morning offering me two tickets to the Wales and Slovakia games. They said a limited number have become available. Im delighted now. Only thing is that they are for the Hill but I dont care, im just happy I got tickets.

Anyone know where the pitch is going to be positioned yet because im a bit worried that it is going to be a good bit away from the Hill.

eirebhoy

I'm in the very corner, 3 rows from the top. :eek:

eirebhoy

Goalkeepers: Given, Colgan, Henderson

Defenders: McShane, Dunne, O'Dea, Finnan, Harte, Kelly.

Midfielders: O'Shea, Kilbane, Ireland, Carsley, Douglas, McGeady, Hunt, Gibson, Quinn, Duff.

Forwards: Keane, Stokes, Doyle, Long, Folan.

Anyone ever seen Folan play? Recently joined Wigan and taking advantage of the granny rule to give Stan a target man.

PHB

O'Shea is not a midfielder

Team I want to see

---

Given

---

Finnan-Dunne-McShane-O'Shea
McGeady-Gibson-Ireland-Duff

---

Keane--Doyle

---

Team I expect to see

---

Given

---

Finnan-Dunne-McShane-O'Shea

---

Carsley

---

-Doyle--Kilbane-Ireland--Duff--

---

Keane

---

eirebhoy

PHB wrote:

---

Given

---

Finnan-Dunne-McShane-O'Shea
McGeady-Gibson-Ireland-Duff

---

Keane--Doyle

---

I'd go with that except for central midfield. I haven't been overly impressed with Ireland yet. Man City wouldn't play him in the centre of a 4-4-2 so I think we should avoid it too. He can go missing. Gibson is way too inexperienced. Carsley has to play but there's nobody sticking out to partner him. I'd probably go with Kilbane since he plays well there when allowed a bit of freedom and he's going to play anyway.

Pity A.Reid is out.

The Rooster

I think I would have preferred to see the Wolves strikers instead of Folan.

A bit odd that O'Dea and Gibson were picked in the underage squad yesterday and the senior squad today. Is there any communication between the managers?

Injuries permitting, he'll pick the 2nd them PHB mentioned - although I think it'll be 4-4-2.

PHB

Personally, this is where my philosophy of what Ireland need to do differs:

Carsley is never going to get better, and he's currently not that good.
Kilbane is the same, and to be honest, he's a winger, who can pretend to be a central midfielder.

Let's just accept our central midfield is crap, and instead of playing the old guys who might do a job, just put our faith in youth.

Ireland has been quite impressive this year, and to be honest, I think, after S. Reid, is the best midfielder we have.

If I had the choice of a full strength team, it's be Ireland-S.Reid, but Reid is out, so let's just put in Gibson. He has shown he has great potential, he is very highly rated at every level he has played at, he is considered to be as good as J. Evans, and look how he has done for Northern Ireland. Let's just put our faith in youth.

A team of

---

Given

---

Finnan-Dunne-McShane-O'Shea
McGeady-Gibson-Ireland-Duff

---

Keane--Doyle

---

All of these, bar Finnan maybe, will be still at the top of their game to quality and play for the next world cup,
and if McShane, Gibson, Ireland, and Doyle can continue to progress as they have, we'd have a bloody good first 11 to use.

Let's stop pretending we are ever going to get anywhere with Carsley and Kilbane in the middle, and just go for it.
In conclusion, Gibson for Ireland

eirebhoy

I'd prefer to win the match.

LuckyLloyd

This a huge game for Irish soccer as, irrespective of recent results or our current standing in the group, the first international match in croke park played infront of possibly the biggest home crowd in memory will be a massive occassion. As such, winning the game needs to be a priority. Therefore, Carsley should play. He's not the future, but the idea of throwing Gibson and Ireland outthere for such a big game doesn't really appeal.

I don't believe that this is the game for experimentation. We still have an outside chance of qualification so, in my opinion, we should be selecting tried, tested and inform players where possible.

PHB

Is this the same Carsley and Kilbane that were so much better than Gibson and Ireland that they could barely beat San Marino.

Not only am I suggesting that Carsley and Kilbane aren't good for the future, I could make a pretty strong case that they are probably worse than Ireland and Gibson.

Our chances of qualification are tiny, if we are to qualify, Carsley and Kilbane might get us the results against Wales and Slovakia, but they havn't a hope in hell of putting in a magical performance to win against Germany.
Ireland actually has that ability, he can actually win a game, Kilbane and Carsley can't

andrew1977

I think the emotion of the occasion and the need for a good performance in Croker will carry us over the line to victory in this one (i hope so ).
2nd place in the group is not way beyond our grasp if we won the next 2 games at home, Shay given leading from the back and if we get the early goal we should be ok .

eirebhoy

PHB wrote:

Is this the same Carsley and Kilbane that were so much better than Gibson and Ireland that they could barely beat San Marino.

Carsley and Ireland played San Marino, Kilbane played on the wing and played well. This is a completely different game. You could play Andy Reid and S.Ireland against San Marino and win comfortably. I'd probably play Douglas anyway against Wales but Kilbane is a cert to start so he might aswell play in the centre.

Slovakia, but they havn't a hope in hell of putting in a magical performance to win against Germany.
Ireland actually has that ability, he can actually win a game, Kilbane and Carsley can't

I can only imagine Ireland and Gibson against Frings and Ballack. That's an ideal game for Kilbane. He hussles the opposition and doesn't give them a moment. Carsley plays the simple passes and gives us that bit more possession. Winning the match can be left to the wingers and strikers.

I can't believe you have me backing Kilbane here.

PHB

If that's what its come to

I think international (and european football) is all about central midfield. I don't think a midfield which attempts to contain will ever really work unless they have real quality there to do something with it when they get the chance.
Carsley can at best get the ball to McGeady or Duff, and hope they do something with it.
Kilbane can at best get a free kick after falling over.

Ireland and Gibson can put in the hussle and bustle, but at the same time, actually do something with the ball.

If we leave the match winning to wingers and strikers, we won't win, at best we'll get a draw, and that's just not enough.
Let's put Ireland and Gibson in now, get them some real experience playing properly, and then once Germany comes, let them have a shot at it, better yet, let Ireland and S. Reid have a shot at it, with Gibson continuing to improve.

p.s. It's not like Ireland and Gibson aren't better than the midfields of Wales and Slovakia.

p.p.s.

Kilbane played on the wing and played well.

He most certainly did not play well! Aside from his goal, he was actually shocking. That said, so was the entire team, the tactics, and really the whole event.

herbieflowers

PHB wrote:

Ireland has been quite impressive this year

Oh, you mean Stephen as opposed to...hehe, there was me thinking PHB's unbridled entusiasm for Man U had crossed over to the international stage...!

KdjaCL

Folan got his passport last night i was a bit worried there he wouldnt get it thus couldnt play for us, hope he doesnt get lost on his way over.

Clinton Morrrison mk 2

kdjac

GuanYin

KdjaCL wrote:

Folan got his passport last night i was a bit worried there he wouldnt get it thus couldnt play for us, hope he doesnt get lost on his way over.

Clinton Morrrison mk 2

kdjac

Best story I heard about Chliontàin was when he first arrived in Dublin to travel to an Irish match, he was given Czech and Irish money and didn't know which was which...

Andrew 83

Got my tickets yesterday. Annoyed about the 3pm kick off, I'm going to have to try and get out of work early. Already missed a day going to a Spurs match a few weeks back :-/

PRman

Very surprised to see someone calling for Gibson to be in the team - He's that kid at Royal Antwerp isn't he? Has anyone actually seen him play??? I have to be honest I haven't. He's as much of a rookie player as staunton is a manager - i.e. he shouldn't play. It has to be 2 from 3 out of Carsley, Ireland and Kilbane - I'd go with the first two. If any rookie is to start it is O'Dea - Clean sheet in 180 minutes of football against AC Milan in d Champions League - You can't get better experience than that. alot beeter than the Belgian League anyway.

BTW also got offered 2 tickets for the Hill - Justice was done in the end!!!

Kingp35

I may be slightly biased but Douglas has been playing some great stuff lately, he has been the best thing at Leeds in the last few months. His role in the team has changed that he is now a sort of anchor man that holds the middle of the field and puts in so many tackles its not right. He is a work horse but does his job well but can get forward and support the attack as well.

On current form I would have Douglas in the side instead of Carsley. He will give everything he has for the team and I think the Wales match will be about grinding out a result and Douglas could be the man to do it. If Douglas doesnt start then Carsley has to.

PHB

Yeh, Douglas seems to be improving. I'd be equally happy with Ireland-Douglas.

PRman

Re: Douglas I don't rate him to be honest - Haven't seen him for Leeds but as a sub for Ireland he has been OK at best. Also he's playing for championship relegaton strugglers whereas Carsley has a proven track record playing for a top half premiership team.... If I was Stan I would maye start Douglas in the next friendly - Wales is too big a game.

TwoShedsJackson

Does Staunton actually watch any of these players outside the Premiership? Henderson is nowhere near good enough and can't even get a game for Brighton, meanwhile Colin Doyle who's been in goal for Birmingham City since January (and who are top of the Championship) doesn't get a call.

Everyone knows that Given will be playing but if he were to get injured no-one wants to see Henderson or Nick Colgan in goal ffs.

eirebhoy

Henderson is with Preston now. tbh, I'm happy with his call up. His last incident for Ireland was that mistake and if he was dropped now his confidence would be in ruins. I can only imagine what Kenny will be feeling like if he ever plays for us again for example. Given is going to start so that's all that matters. Henderson can be dropped for the next set of matches.

kincsem

We should beat the Welsh, but we are at rock-bottom. Let's hope we don't get out the jackhammers, and try to drill into the rock.

The Rooster

Kingp35 wrote:

Just got an email off the FAI this morning offering me two tickets to the Wales and Slovakia games. They said a limited number have become available. Im delighted now. Only thing is that they are for the Hill but I dont care, im just happy I got tickets.

As a matter of interest, are they still calling it the northern terrace?

PHB

I've got the Canel end, lower tier, row X.
I hold out hope they reverse the order at Croke

The Rooster

PHB wrote:

I've got the Canel end, lower tier, row X.
I hold out hope they reverse the order at Croke

Row X in the lower deck is exactly half way back. 50 rows of seats in the lower tier.

GuanYin

Keogh in for the injured Folan - Keane must be livid...