Am I over-reacting

Mental Mickey

Firstly, let me introduce myself. I am a 32 year old male with Spina Bifida. I use a wheelchair to get around. I work with FAS - the national training & development authority.

Over the last few weeks, a situation has arisen where an able-bodied colleague has been using the disabled toilets "to do his business"(I can't think of another way to put it - sorry), when there is a male toilet about 10 yards away. I have caught this guy in the toilet when I wanted to use it on a number of occasions. I once told him to take the short walk to the gents toilet, when he told me "that it was too long a walk". As far as I can make out, this guy has no physical disability - he's just being a lazy b*****d!!!

It happened again today, so I went and reported it to my manager(who happens to have a son with a disability).

Am I being a bit paranoid, or am I within my rights to report the misuse of the toilets?

Cheers.

...............I know FranknFurter would've loved to chip in on this topic.

R.I.P Man.

RainyDay

Not all disabilities are obvious, so it is possible that he has a disability which is not obvious or visible to you. But it is more likely that he's just a selfish d1ck who probably parks in the wheelchair space in the shopping centre too.

The smart-ass thing to do would be to watch out for the next occasion he pops into the loo, and then move over this his office/desk, push his chair out of the way and esconce yourself in his space. When comes back & complains, tell him that your own desk is 'too far to push'. Or you could make up some nice labels/stickers reading 'You've got my bathroom, would you like my disability too?' and stick these on his desk/chair/office.

The more mature approach might be to have a discussion with your DLO (Disability Liaison Officer - part of your HR dept), your buildings/accomodation officers and/or your Access officer (the new role under the Disability Act 2005) regarding a corporate policy on use of accessible bathrooms. You'll find that they won't have a policy, so you'll need to push them to create a policy that meets your needs.

Rev Hellfire

I think you where perfectly correct to report him seeing as you had highlighted to him that it was causing an inconvenience to you.

Amz

RainyDay wrote:

The smart-ass thing to do would be to watch out for the next occasion he pops into the loo, and then move over this his office/desk, push his chair out of the way and esconce yourself in his space. When comes back & complains, tell him that your own desk is 'too far to push'. Or you could make up some nice labels/stickers reading 'You've got my bathroom, would you like my disability too?' and stick these on his desk/chair/office.

I wouldn't advise this kind of approach, it could lead to resentment and it might not work out well in the long run and could damage any kind of working relationship you have with the guy.

The more mature approach might be to have a discussion with your DLO (Disability Liaison Officer - part of your HR dept), your buildings/accomodation officers and/or your Access officer (the new role under the Disability Act 2005) regarding a corporate policy on use of accessible bathrooms. You'll find that they won't have a policy, so you'll need to push them to create a policy that meets your needs.

FAS are pretty good about working with people with disabilities, so do approach someone about it if it continues following your initial report.

I'd be very surprised if it wasn't dealt with.

CtrlSource

I have an ongoing problem with this where I work. There's an accessible toilet on every 2nd storey of the building. There are a number of habitual abusers of the toilet on my floor (and other floors too). The toilet nearest my desk is right between the Ladies and Gents, so distance to walk is not an issue.

As RainyDay said, not all disabilities are obvious. However, from the way you describe it, this guy is taking the piss.

I have tried to get the accessible toilets locked and keys distributed to those who need them. I've taken the route of contacting successive Facilities Managers but after chasing it up every few months, for the past several years, I've got no result.

It's very annoying how blatant some people can be with their laziness and general "couldn't care less what you think" attitude.

Talliesin

The matter comes down to if he is affecting your use of it.

If he isn't, then grand, he's using a toilet that happens to also be accessible to people with certain disabilities that affect their ability to use them - why care? (wouldn't it be great if all toilets were accessible).

If he is, then complain with direct attention on how it's affecting you.

CtrlSource

Talliesin wrote:

The matter comes down to if he is affecting your use of it.

If he isn't, then grand, he's using a toilet that happens to also be accessible to people with certain disabilities that affect their ability to use them - why care? (wouldn't it be great if all toilets were accessible).

If he is, then complain with direct attention on how it's affecting you.

Exactly. It becomes a definite issue for you once it affects your use of it and from your post OP, it's clear that that's already the case. You're absolutely right to complain.

Mental Mickey

It's not just one guy - it's quite a few people that are doing it. It affects me when I need to go to the toilet and some other ignorant/lazy f**ker who can't be bothered to walk another few yards to the ladies/gents toilets.

I got a smart comment from one of my colleagues today after this was brought up.

I thought that she was a clever person, but she came to me and said "I hear you're objecting to the use of the disabled toilet"(I can't remember her exact words, but they were along those lines). The vibes I was getting from some people were quite frosty after the issue was brought up.

Our Assistant Manager sent us an e-mail today asking people to refrain from using the toilets when they are well able to walk to the ladies/gents. One of my colleagues said that he never uses the disabled toilets, but I know for a fact that he does, cos I've caught him in it TWICE!!!!

These are the kind of people who also take up disabled parking bays, cos they are too damn lazy to walk a bit further!!!!

Mental Mickey

CtrlSource wrote:

Exactly. It becomes a definite issue for you once it affects your use of it and from your post OP, it's clear that that's already the case. You're absolutely right to complain.

This is where the complaint arose, I went to use it one day and a guy was in it. He was surprised to see me waiting outside and he thought he was being funny when he "put on" a limp coming out of the toilet!!

This is a grown man in late 40's, I'd say......? I felt like decking the f**ker!!

hullaballoo

I'd agree with Talliesin on this one. I don't see a problem with them using it unless they're making it unusable to you. I've never seen an accessible toilet as something exclusively for the use of people with disabilities. It's merely so that someone with a disability can use it as well.

It's a different story if they're making a mess of the place, but if you're just complaining because you've to wait a few minutes on occasion, then I don't see your point.

Mental Mickey

I don't see why they use the disabled toilet when the ladies/gents loo's are right beside the other toilet!!?? It's not as if they have 3 miles to bloody walk!? They're either (a)being bone bloody lazy, or (b)spiteful, because I've made a complaint.

Either way, it has been brought to a head now, so it should be sorted once and for all.

Mental Mickey

RainyDay wrote:

Not all disabilities are obvious, so it is possible that he has a disability which is not obvious or visible to you. But it is more likely that he's just a selfish d1ck who probably parks in the wheelchair space in the shopping centre too.

The smart-ass thing to do would be to watch out for the next occasion he pops into the loo, and then move over this his office/desk, push his chair out of the way and esconce yourself in his space. When comes back & complains, tell him that your own desk is 'too far to push'. Or you could make up some nice labels/stickers reading 'You've got my bathroom, would you like my disability too?' and stick these on his desk/chair/office.

The more mature approach might be to have a discussion with your DLO (Disability Liaison Officer - part of your HR dept), your buildings/accomodation officers and/or your Access officer (the new role under the Disability Act 2005) regarding a corporate policy on use of accessible bathrooms. You'll find that they won't have a policy, so you'll need to push them to create a policy that meets your needs.

I think that "approach" would get me sacked, don't you?? And, as far as I know, we don't have a Disability Liaison Officer where I work?? If we do have one, for all I know, he/she could be one of the people using the bloody thing too...?

Amz

Mickey I've sent you a PM.

Mental Mickey

hullaball&#250 wrote:

I'd agree with Talliesin on this one. I don't see a problem with them using it unless they're making it unusable to you. I've never seen an accessible toilet as something exclusively for the use of people with disabilities. It's merely so that someone with a disability can use it as well.

It's a different story if they're making a mess of the place, but if you're just complaining because you've to wait a few minutes on occasion, then I don't see your point.

Like I've already said, I don't see their point in using that toilet when there are Ladies & Gents toilets right next to it....? It's not as if they have to walk 100 yards to it!?

CtrlSource

hullaball&#250 wrote:

I'd agree with Talliesin on this one. I don't see a problem with them using it unless they're making it unusable to you. I've never seen an accessible toilet as something exclusively for the use of people with disabilities. It's merely so that someone with a disability can use it as well.

It's a different story if they're making a mess of the place, but if you're just complaining because you've to wait a few minutes on occasion, then I don't see your point.

They're not for use by anyone exclusively, but people are being lazy and ignorant by using them repeatedly. Also, some people in my office like to use them when they have a particular mess to make! Monday mornings for instance. One guy I have in mind, likes to make a particular type of mess in the toilet after his boozy weekend (I'm assuming) and after rendering it unusable until some unfortunate cleaner deals with it, leaves his half drunk coffee cup on the sink and toilet roll strewn on the floor :rolleyes:

To be honest, anyone who thinks they're being funny or clever by putting on a limp when they're found to be using it, is a moron.

hullaballoo

CtrlSource wrote:

They're not for use by anyone exclusively, but people are being lazy and ignorant by using them repeatedly. Also, some people in my office like to use them when they have a particular mess to make! Monday mornings for instance. One guy I have in mind, likes to make a particular type of mess in the toilet after his boozy weekend (I'm assuming) and after rendering it unusable until some unfortunate cleaner deals with it, leaves his half drunk coffee cup on the sink and toilet roll strewn on the floor :rolleyes:

To be honest, anyone who thinks they're being funny or clever by putting on a limp when they're found to be using it, is a moron.

Well, that's exactly my point. They're making it unusable for other people by leaving that kind of mess around, and they should be sent back to playschool to learn toilet again.

I also agree that putting on a limp, or intentionally giving Mickey a hard time about it is bang out of order. I'm just curious about whether they mean it or not.

walshb

This lazy ignorant slob is actually in the majority in this country. How sad is that???. He should have manners beaten into him!!!!

Mental Mickey

I'm actually still getting smart remarks from one of the guys in my office since our Assistant Manager sent the e-mail about it.

Every time this guy goes to the toilet he remarks that "I must remember not to use the Disabled Toilet because I might get into trouble".

The guy must be finely balanced, cos I think he's got a chip on both shoulders!?

Mental Mickey

hullaball&#250 wrote:

Well, that's exactly my point. They're making it unusable for other people by leaving that kind of mess around, and they should be sent back to playschool to learn toilet again.

I also agree that putting on a limp, or intentionally giving Mickey a hard time about it is bang out of order. I'm just curious about whether they mean it or not.

To be fair, these people aren't leaving a mess behind them. They are clean, lazy ignorant slobs.

It's just the fact that they can't seem to walk a few extra yards to the ladies/gents toilets that confuses me.......?

CtrlSource

Mental Mickey wrote:

I'm actually still getting smart remarks from one of the guys in my office since our Assistant Manager sent the e-mail about it.

Every time this guy goes to the toilet he remarks that "I must remember not to use the Disabled Toilet because I might get into trouble".

The guy must be finely balanced, cos I think he's got a chip on both shoulders!?

Sounds like you work with some weird folks!

Mental Mickey

CtrlSource wrote:

Sounds like you work with some weird folks!

It's just this one person who's being a pain in the a**e!!! It isn't so much what he says, it's the tone in which he says things.

I know he's having a go at me.


If this continues, could I report him for bullying/harrassment?

I was told today by one of my colleagues(on our Health & Safety Committee)that this guy could have a "hidden" disability, which is why he's using the Accessible Toilet. That kinda made me think a bit.....? But, the manager said that he should've declared that. AFAIK, people don't have to declare disabilites when they are starting a job?? I could be wrong on this......?

RainyDay

Mental Mickey wrote:

It's just this one person who's being a pain in the a**e!!! It isn't so much what he says, it's the tone in which he says things.

I know he's having a go at me.


If this continues, could I report him for bullying/harrassment?

Yep - you could. Or maybe you could try calling him out first, i.e. tell him face-to-face that his behaviour is unacceptable.

Mental Mickey

He shouldn't have to be told!!?? This is a guy in his late 50's, for f**k sake!!! I've known the guy years, and he's always struck me as someone who has plenty of cop on!!?? I think he knows I'm pissed off, and that he's acting like this deliberately.....?

I've noticed the way he behaves on different occasions. Particularly if he's asked to do something extra. He won't step outside his "box" if you know what I mean. I have confronted him about it. I said to him one day "why don't you walk to the gents toilets just down the corridor?"

The answer I got was "It's too far!"

Amz

Mental Mickey wrote:

It's just this one person who's being a pain in the a**e!!! It isn't so much what he says, it's the tone in which he says things.

I know he's having a go at me.


If this continues, could I report him for bullying/harrassment?

I was told today by one of my colleagues(on our Health & Safety Committee)that this guy could have a "hidden" disability, which is why he's using the Accessible Toilet. That kinda made me think a bit.....? But, the manager said that he should've declared that. AFAIK, people don't have to declare disabilites when they are starting a job?? I could be wrong on this......?

He's under no obligation to declare a disability. If it is a hidden disability he may not yet feel comfortable letting his employers know etc.

Also, if he is in his late fifties there are any number of reasons why the gents toilets could be too far, there are illnesses etc. that affect men in their fifties making even the shortest walk to the loo seem like a marathon.

I wouldn't be too hard on him, give him the benefit of the doubt etc. The sarcastic comments etc. will probably come to an end at some stage. If it is a hidden disability or something else that's resulting in him not taking the slightly longer walk to the gents he might be resentful that others have noticed him and it may be that resentment or embarassment that's causing this behaviour.

CtrlSource

The extra detail you've given and the fact that he's being pretty stubborn by continuing to use it suggest that he might need to use it, or is more comfortable using it?

I know you mentioned his tone which i presume is sarky or patronising, but if he's still going to use it, you can't stop him.

If he really needs to use it, it's a pity he just doesn't say it out straight. Of course he doesn't have to mention the reason why! As Amz said, no obligation to declare disability, unless it impacts ability to do the job.

It sounds like you have more issues with him than just his toilet habits! (not doing extra work etc.)

Mental Mickey

Forget about that. I was having a bad day when I said it. But, I have noticed the guy's behaviour around me. I asked him a question about something relating to work today(I also asked another colleague about the same topic), and this guy seemed to direct his response to my question at my colleague.

I can tell by the tone in his voice that he's trying to exclude me from things, and that I'm beneath him(I happen to be a lower grade civil servant than this guy). He IS being patronising.

Anyhoo, I'm goin to forget about it for the weekend.


Happy St Patrick's Day!!!!:D