How to save money if you travel by train

talkingclock

Imagine you need to travel from Limerick to Dublin.

There is

Limerick - (train) - Dublin Heuston direct -- 43€ ADULT one way or
Limerick - (train) - Limerick Junction - (train) - Dublin Heuston -- 43€ ADULT one way

if you buy a ticket to Rosslare Europort where the trip goes as follows

Limerick - (train) - Limerick Junction - (train) - Dublin Heuston - (Bus/Luas)- Dublin Connolly - (train) - Rosslare Europort it is 38€ ADULT one way

Why is it cheaper?

Crazy system!

MarkoP11

Because you should do Limerick - Limerick Junction - Waterford Rosslare, the ticket is only valid on the specific trains shown in the planner, so its only valid on the 7:55 ex Limerick. It would not be valid if it wasn't booked online

It is illegal to buy a ticket which is cheaper to a destination beyond your own, If you walked into Limerick and asked for a day return to Dublin you would pay €41 return. Where as Rosslare is €46.50. The online system does not quote day saver fares

Anyone who wants to do Limerick Rosslare would get the bus its 2 hours faster journey

talkingclock

But if I have to change the train in Heuston anyway - who will force me to complete my journey to Rosslare? Who will check that I do not dare to leave the train station? Will they put me in chains to consign me to the Rosslare train?



I don't understand the system behind the pricing. How can a destination B behind a destination A be cheaper then destinaion A?

MarkoP11

I can't condone an activity which is against the law (section 6 SI 109 1984), if you can get away with it fine, but its impossible to come back the same day on a reservation and two singles is always a lot more than a return. €41 is the day return Limerick Dublin or €43.40 with the Luas added

I know of a passenger who tried (a legal) loophole, gardai where called so if you are caught they will get you. I made the same journey and asked IE to stop me, they didn't

Yes it is strange but its common across europe, its legal in the UK but it varies. The excuse from Irish Rail is business reasons but its complex http://www.platform11.org/passenger_info/ticketing.php#weird_1

There are some legal ways to beat the system for a discount such as the faircard and weekender card, a more legal solution may be two ticket for the journey provided the train stops the midway station you have chosen. Technically illegal but damn hard to catch you

Edit by technically illegal I means its against the rules IE have but its not stated in the bye laws

MLM

Certainly a confusing system. I also noticed that you can buy a ticket to Glanmire, even though there has never been a train station in Glanmire. The nearest was dunkettle which closed in 1966. I think Cork Kent was once known as Glanmire Road until a name change (also in 1966). Perhaps IE think its still 1966 down in Cork. It would certainly explain a lot of things!

MarkoP11

Cork Kent is Glanmire Rd the system knows to map Glanmire to Cork, ticket will always have Cork printed on it.

The system is very simple compared to the UK but it has some strange options which can produce interesting results

Capt'n Midnight

isn't there a switch back in Galway to Athenry or somewhere where it's also cheaper to get a ticket further

IIRC cost is based on the straight line distance between stop rather than the distance along the rails.

Enigma365

Edit by technically illegal I means its against the rules IE have but its not stated in the bye laws

I can't imagine such an act could ever be illegal under Irish law. If you buy a ticket for Rosslare and decide to get off at some point earlier than your destination, then that is free will. Maybe they could make deliberately planning to cheat the system against the law, but there is no way that:
a) they could ever catch you doing it and
b) they could ever prove that you hadnt simply made a decision en route to get off early(i.e. you could say you started to feel unwell)

In any case, such a law would be dumb and it would make much more sense for IE just to fix their ticketing system.

It reminds me of a flight I was booking with United a few years ago. It was 600 Euro to fly Dublin to San Francisco, even though Dublin to LA was only 350 Euro, which conisisted of the exact same Dublin to San Francisco flight with a connection from San Fran to LA.

talkingclock

Enigma365 wrote:

a) they could ever catch you doing it and
b) they could ever prove that you hadnt simply made a decision en route to get off early(i.e. you could say you started to feel unwell)

Exactly. And that's why i will buy the Rosslare Ticket if i have to take a single journey to Dublin.
To get from Heuston to Connolly you have to leave the train to take the bus/LUAS. So who will chase me?

MarkoP11

Its against the law its on the statute http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI109Y1984.html to get off early (item 6) if it results in a cheaper fare than to where you where travelling. A similar rule was added in the UK but was removed some time ago. Yes it is stupid and the conditions should never exist that it is even possible

Now if you ignore special offers and day saver returns there are no cases where rule 6 comes into play, if rule 6 was deleted these fares would be withdrawn or increased in price to cancel the effect which is a negative action for passengers on lightly used lines where low fares are used to drum up business Clonmel being a key example

Now Limerick Rosslare its impossible to catch you on but. Taking a more practical example (Limerick Rosslare only works on one train) say you tried to use Athy Dublin day saver and lived in Kildare a ticket inspector standing at the exit could collar you and force you to pay the difference between the tickets or issue a fixed penalty notice, they then ask for your address at which point you incriminate yourself

The use of two tickets for one journey is only in conditions of carriage its not in the bye laws so IE cant get you (done it heaps of times), loads of money to be saved this way if you know what you are doing and know how to work the system

dmeehan

Enigma365 wrote:

It reminds me of a flight I was booking with United a few years ago. It was 600 Euro to fly Dublin to San Francisco, even though Dublin to LA was only 350 Euro, which conisisted of the exact same Dublin to San Francisco flight with a connection from San Fran to LA.

at least its not just IE :rolleyes:

Ham'nd'egger

Enigma365 wrote:

I can't imagine such an act could ever be illegal under Irish law. If you buy a ticket for Rosslare and decide to get off at some point earlier than your destination, then that is free will. Maybe they could make deliberately planning to cheat the system against the law, but there is no way that:
a) they could ever catch you doing it and
b) they could ever prove that you hadnt simply made a decision en route to get off early(i.e. you could say you started to feel unwell)

In any case, such a law would be dumb and it would make much more sense for IE just to fix their ticketing system.

It reminds me of a flight I was booking with United a few years ago. It was 600 Euro to fly Dublin to San Francisco, even though Dublin to LA was only 350 Euro, which conisisted of the exact same Dublin to San Francisco flight with a connection from San Fran to LA.

Marko just told us the Law where it is illegal; therefore it is illegal!

On here, there has been several threads on here about fare evasion on the trains and LUAS (It's a fresh thread so pop into it, Emigma if you haven't seen it) so it is a recurring theme on here. As it happens, I do see the initial absurdity of the situation but where it will get askew is if you were travelling return and attempted to get on mid trip.

As it happens, do you not think that a ticket from Limerick to Rosslare via Dublin would not look somewhat suspicious to a ticket check, and all for the sake of a €5 note? I appreciate it's better in your pocket than theirs but is it worth the hassle?

Enigma365

Well the bye-law states there has to be an intent to avoid a higher fare, which might be difficult to prove.

I wonder if this bye law has ever been enforced. It seems unlikely that anyone would ever be caught for this. I have never seen tickets being checked on leaving a train station and if the journey involved a change of train as in the example stated in this thread, it would be impossible to catch.

Perhaps if it were a return journey, an astute ticket inspector might be able to figure out what happened.

In any case, in the improbable event that you were caught, they would still need to prove that your intent was to avoid fares, rather than that you simply changed your plans en route.

You could easily say that you bought the ticket to Rosslare via Dublin, as you were undecided as to where you were going to go, but wanted to keep your options open on the day. I have genuinely done this when travelling by train in the US.

I severely doubt they would bother prosecuting a case over 5 Euro, when they were far from certain of winning. Worst case scenario, they might just ask for the difference and warn you not to do it again, in which case you haven't lost out.

All in all, I would feel very safe taking advantage of this from a legal point of view. Morally, it is another story.

MarkoP11

The fact a day saver return Limerick Dublin is cheaper than a normal single means this is a totally pointless idea anyway

If you tried Dublin Limerick this way it only works on the 12:00 or 18:00 Dublin Cork of course when you collect your ticket on the concorse in Heuston 20 minutes before hand they have all the evidence they need that you didn't come from Rosslare

Any sane person wanted to do Rosslare Limerick would get the 7am train with one change and takes 4 hours beating the bus by a mile

I'm still looking for a legal way to beat the system which has no grey areas I'm still looking the two tickets trick is the only one that comes close

Enigma365

If you tried Dublin Limerick this way it only works on the 12:00 or 18:00 Dublin Cork of course when you collect your ticket on the concorse in Heuston 20 minutes before hand they have all the evidence they need that you didn't come from Rosslare

Not be splitting hairs here but does the bye law prohibit that? As far as I can understand it, it only prohibits terminating a train journey early, not joining a train journey late.

kmick

Heres a neat trick
1)Sign up with your local credit union
2)Get tickets from your credit union - they are one way tickets for 21.50
3)Return Journey to anywhere euro43

MarkoP11

Not all credit unions are in the game and mostly its only to Dublin or Cork not anywhere, have a incomplete list http://www.platform11.org/passenger_info/ticketing.php#credit_union Downside if Irish Rail impose a requirement for booking on a service eg owing to a match you can't avail of the tickets

There are plently of ways of getting a reduced fare legally, there are grey areas which can be exploited but they require serious research

Zoney

Is this legal so?

Buy Dublin-Limerick return and Limerick-Cork return.

Travel Dublin - Limerick. Travel Limerick-Cork. Travel Cork-Dublin on a service stopping at Limerick Junction, and carry both tickets.

The alternative is a lot more expensive, buying singles Dublin-Limerick, Limerick-Cork and Cork-Dublin.

MarkoP11

Yes since a break of journey is allowed on a intericty ticket