[US/IRL] 3X12 - "Par Avion" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

ZiabR

8

Crucifix wrote:

Good episode. Funniest cliffhanger ever. God I love Tom.

Yeah have to agree with you there, Tom is a cool char also. Watching him throw the ball for Jack to score the touchdown was funny. Really can't wait for this thursday

Old_-_School

I thought those pylon things were a bit too phallic looking for comfort!
Desmond obviously shot the gun to scare off the birds which makes no sense. I was hoping when Charlie and Claire released the bird that you'd hear a gunshot and the bird would drop into the ocean!
What's the big deal with Mikhail knowing Sayid and Kate's names and knowing about Locke's paralysis seeing that we already know that the others know every detail about all the Losties from one of the episodes of Jack being in the tank.

shellie11

8

OMG! I taught it was a brilliant epsiode...I think Jack has been brained washed by the others....In that scary room where they put goggle like things on them and have him hooked up to loads of tubes.

I taught that flashback with Claire was really good... And Aunt Lynsey was horrible in it..Poor Claire I cant believe Jack & Claire are half siblings...:eek:

I think Locke was right to push Mikhail through the security fence because Sayid was actually starting to believe Mikhail and i think Sayid would have convinced them to walk through the fence if Locke hadnt pushed Mikhail...

Aw its still so confusing.....And still so many questions to be answered...

MMM

I thought it was a very good episode, great to see kate and claire actualy asking questions for once.
I was a bit confused by Desmond shooting his gun. If Claire and co had captured the bird using the trap then surely charlie would not have needed to go looking for the bird and end up drowning? So why when charlie is safe in the camp, does desmond not let them capture the bird and everything would be fine?
Really interesting the way dr shepherd keeps appearing, is he linked to dharma, or possibly jacob as someone has suggested?

kevmy

7

Good episode Lost does seem to be back on form, hopefully they will keep it up. The island is obviously pretty big. It takes days to cross parts of it by keeping close to the coast (see Tailies journey in S2 and Kate and Sawyer this season) While Rousseau may know more than shes letting on I don't think we can get in the Losties face for not having the full island explored yet given some of the sh1t thats happened to them.

Sayid has finally being appointed leader of the Losties in my eyes. Even though Mikhael said he was weak he's still better than Jack or Locke as he at least uses common sense.
Locke obviously has some other agenda. We see him as acting strange but he's always acted strange before its just that we knew his motivations, now we don't and we don't like Locke so much. But this must be what Jack and the rest felt like for the most of S2 dealing with Locke, frustrating as hell cos he won't explain anything.

Thought the flashback was pretty good it's nice to get confirmation of something even if we suspected it for ages.
Also are any of the Losties actually on the list?

lady_j

7

How did they get over the fence? I missed a bit flicking through the adbreaks...

shellie11

8

descry wrote:

How did they get over the fence? I missed a bit flicking through the adbreaks...

They made a bridge thing with tree trunks and climbed over the peers...

lady_j

7

shellie11 wrote:

They made a bridge thing with tree trunks and climbed over the peers...

Thanks, I couldnt understand how they'd got passed the fence when they just appeared in the others compound. Thats what I get for flicking!!

shellie11

8

descry wrote:

Thanks, I couldnt understand how they'd got passed the fence when they just appeared in the others compound. Thats what I get for flicking!!

lol, yeh i am even afraid to blink between 10pm & 11pm on a Monday night lol ...

ZiabR

8

MMM wrote:

I thought it was a very good episode, great to see kate and claire actualy asking questions for once.
I was a bit confused by Desmond shooting his gun. If Claire and co had captured the bird using the trap then surely charlie would not have needed to go looking for the bird and end up drowning? So why when charlie is safe in the camp, does desmond not let them capture the bird and everything would be fine?
Really interesting the way dr shepherd keeps appearing, is he linked to dharma, or possibly jacob as someone has suggested?

Thats actually really interesting. I mean Desmond wants to stop Charlie dying. So if he didn't shoot that gun then there is a possibility that Claire would have caught a bird and in turn Charlie would never have to go to the Cliff in the first place.

So in the one hand we have Desmond saving Charlie again, based on the fact that Charlie only had to go there because of Desmond.

In the other hand, we have Desmond in a way "forcing" Charlie to go to the cliff by ruining Claire's trap, by shooting the gun off.

Is Desmond making the work for himself to complete or did he really shoot by mistake.

dan_y

you all (generalisation) keep saying how they couldn't spend as long as they have on the island without discovering all of this stuff - but there are places on achill island I've never seen and I've stayed there for 3 months before. the survivors have pretty much lived on the beach, in the caves, and in the hatch. besides the main characters, they've only gone into the jungle for food. and when the main characters do go farther in, it's to find something specific. even sayid, the resident gijoe-of-all-trades, followed the beaches around the island when he was looking for rousseau. it's not bull island, the place is huge - it took ana lucia's team days to reach the other survivors from their beach. and the barracks (according to the map) is in the centre of the island - somewhere no one has had any reason to go, until now.

Sad Professor

8

I agree with the above. Also many of the times they've gone exploring they've run into the Others who made them turn back, not to mention Smokey. It's a big island and most of the survivors aren't too concerned with it's secrets.

and the barracks (according to the map) is in the centre of the island - somewhere no one has had any reason to go, until now

I think the Pearl is in the centre of the island and that the Barracks is on the opposite side, close to the Arrow and where the Tailies landed. Goodwin was able to get there within 10 minutes of the crash.

abelard

8

Sad Professor wrote:

I agree with the above. Also many of the times they've gone exploring they've run into the Others who made them turn back, not to mention Smokey. It's a big island and most of the survivors aren't too concerned with it's secrets.

I think the Pearl is in the centre of the island and that the Barracks is on the opposite side, close to the Arrow and where the Tailies landed. Goodwin was able to get there within 10 minutes of the crash.

Hopefully my memory isn't letting me down on this one, but back when we first saw the orientation video in the Pearl, Marvin Candle/Mark Wickman was explaining the protocol of the station to whomever would be resident within. Didn't he say that, at the end of the shift, the worker would go to the Pala Ferry (this was where the finale of season 2 was) and be taken by boat to the barracks?

This makes no sense based on what we now know of the location of the barracks. I wonder if it was a mistake or intentional.

Sad Professor

8

abelard wrote:

Hopefully my memory isn't letting me down on this one, but back when we first saw the orientation video in the Pearl, Marvin Candle/Mark Wickman was explaining the protocol of the station to whomever would be resident within. Didn't he say that, at the end of the shift, the worker would go to the Pala Ferry (this was where the finale of season 2 was) and be taken by boat to the barracks?

This makes no sense based on what we now know of the location of the barracks. I wonder if it was a mistake or intentional.

That's right but I don't see any problem with it. If the barracks is on the other side of the island it would be a lot quicker to get there by boat. I assume Pala Ferry is along the coast somewhere between the Staff and the Swan.

ZiabR

8

Sad Professor wrote:

That's right but I don't see any problem with it. If the barracks is on the other side of the island it would be a lot quicker to get there by boat. I assume Pala Ferry is along the coast somewhere between the Staff and the Swan.

That would be my assumption also. It would make sense to use the boat.

csk

7

abelard wrote:

Hopefully my memory isn't letting me down on this one, but back when we first saw the orientation video in the Pearl, Marvin Candle/Mark Wickman was explaining the protocol of the station to whomever would be resident within. Didn't he say that, at the end of the shift, the worker would go to the Pala Ferry (this was where the finale of season 2 was) and be taken by boat to the barracks?

This makes no sense based on what we now know of the location of the barracks. I wonder if it was a mistake or intentional.

lol I was going to ask that same question, great minds and all that!

Is this evidence that the writers are indeed making things up as they go along or just a continuity error? The Desmond shooting the birds also doesn't make sense.

Anyway it was a good epsiode, especially liked Mikhail's brain melting, it caught me by surprise because I thought they would not work. Locke's comment "a...a...a sonic weapon fence" made me laugh too. Kate taking on a more assertive leader role is good to see hopefully they won't ruin this by making her go all googly at Jack again, that whole love triangle thing the writers are trying to push is really lame imo.

All in all a good episode that at least is showing signs of the series moving forward and I can't wait until next week.

csk

7

Sad Professor wrote:

That's right but I don't see any problem with it. If the barracks is on the other side of the island it would be a lot quicker to get there by boat. I assume Pala Ferry is along the coast somewhere between the Staff and the Swan.

But is the barraks not the same as Othersville that we saw at the openng of season three. Was that not slap bang in the middle of the island? Or am I just mixing the two up and they are not one and the same?

ZiabR

8

The clip we seen is an airal view of the others encampment. It does not show much around the encampment so there is no way of knowing if that is the centre of the Island.

Sad Professor

8

csk wrote:

But is the barraks not the same as Othersville that we saw at the openng of season three. Was that not slap bang in the middle of the island? Or am I just mixing the two up and they are not one and the same?

Yeah the barracks and otherville are the same but it's not in the middle of the island. When the plane broke up over otherville in the season opener the tail section went down very close by so it must be near the coastline.

Here's a pic:

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Lost301theothersplaceintheisland.jpg

JBoyle4eva

9

Thought it was a fairly decent ep. Gave it a 10 for many reason:

Clare's character being explored

The twist @ the end with Jack @ the "others/hostiles" camp enjoying football.

But, mainly the 10 is for the entertainment value we've not received in a while!

Basq

7

JBoyle4eva wrote:

Clare's character being explored

I'd certainly like to give her character an explore...

..... "if ya's know what i meannnnnnnn!!!" *




I do in fact mean a metaphorical exploration of her characters wants, needs, dreams and ambitions!

ZiabR

8

basquille wrote:

I'd certainly like to give her character an explore...

..... "if ya's know what i meannnnnnnn!!!" *




I do in fact mean a metaphorical exploration of her characters wants, needs, dreams and ambitions!

haha, dirty dirty...

Killaqueen!!!

8

With episodes like these, I never read the whole thread before posting a reply. That's a good sign. It means I'm so excited to talk about this episode that I don't have time to read other peoples comments before me (selfish, I know. But I'll get round to it!)

One of the best episodes of season 3. I bet the peopls who were slagging season 3 are pretty ashamed right now, because lately the episodes have been top of their game.

It's great that we have some action at the beach instead of just focussing on Kate/Sayid/Locke, which they could have done. Claires plan was good, it was a cheesy note that she attached to the bird at the end, though! Usually Charlie just p1sses me off (and to think I loved him in series 1) but it was so sweet that Charlie would have got killed trying to catch that bird just for Desmond. Another thing that the writers could have messed up; at the beginning when we see Charlie and Desmond talking to each other - it's obvious it's to do with Charlie dying because of something or other. If we thought about it enough we could have figured it out with little information - but it's nice that it was all wrapped up at the end...that we knew why Charlie and Desmond were acting this way and more importantly somebody else (Claire) knows about Desmonds weird psychic power.

The scenes with Patchey were good. I remember Ben saying something while he was captured; "Our leader is a great man....but he is not a forgiving one". When we found out that Ben was in charge I thought he was talking about himself...In this episode Patchey says something about their leader as well and it is not Ben (as I assumed). So I wonder who is it? Not Alvar Hanso surely?

The security pylons were interesting. On one hand I didn't want Patchey to die (even though I knew he wouldn't tell them anything and the Others wouldn't trade Jack) but I still would have liked the Losties to have something to bargain for...a la when they held Ben in captive. Anyway, it was really cool when all the foam came out of his mouth and the blood out of his ears. I was thinking that if Sawyer came along on the trip (and had he gone first over the pylons), it would be like his character to pretend to be being electrocuted once he dropped down, just to scare the others. Would have been funny to see!

Great closing scene with Jack. Great...but it still annoyed me. It's Jack after all...he's the 'hero' - the Others can't have him! I was wondering why nobody was stopping him when he was running - and how he had seen the Kate etc. in the bushes so quickly.

So what are the options?

A) The Others are essentially the 'good guys' and the Losties are the 'bad guys'

Jack was brainwashed like Alex's fella (who, btw, seems to be slightly more on the Other's 'side')

C) The Others simply told them the whole story (why they want certain people - why they kidnapped the children etc.)

This could overlap with option A and it could be that the Others are creating a sort of Utopia. Picking the best people (I don't know how they determine who is good and who is not. Speaking of the list...we now know that Kate and Sayid are not on the list but Locke is (as we assumed from Ben supposedly going to get him, before he supposedly got captured by Danielle).

I agree with Patchey though - Locke has changed....I wonder whats up...

Wow I have written so much and it's all over the place. Sorry about that. It's just that we're slowly getting more answers and there's so many possibilities! Let's just hope next week doesn't let us down and it's not a filler....

Killaqueen!!!

8

Sad Professor wrote:

Yeah the barracks and otherville are the same but it's not in the middle of the island. When the plane broke up over otherville in the season opener the tail section went down very close by so it must be near the coastline.

Here's a pic:

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Lost301theothersplaceintheisland.jpg

What? I thought the barracks was where Walt was taken to with Ms Klugh etc.? And wasn't that found to be abandoned, and in fact there was no Dharma station there at all? I seem to remember Sayid going there...it was near the coast I think...although it was high up on a cliff. I hope there's a good shot of the map that Sayid has in the next episode!

Why aren't the Others worried about the Losties finding them? It didn't seem that long of a trek to get to Othersville....although it is in the centre of the island right? But then it only took Goodwin 10minutes to get to the coast. Ahhhh! Confusing!

Another point about Claires flashback - I was crying when she was apologising to her mam who was in the coma...saying it was all her fault! It was so sad!

Not many would have got the Jack+Claire being related thing (unless of course they read it on here which many people did and then just claimed to have copped on to it themselves!)...I thought it was going to be Jack and Kate (remember Kate's mam had blonde hair...played by the actress who played Zelda in Sabrina the teenage witch!) because I remember Ana Lucia's flashback where she was driving in the car with Jack's dad and they stopped to go up to this womans house. Christian was screaming "She's my daughter too!" etc. and so I copped on that Jack had a half sister but I wasn't sure if it was Kate or someone else...

Sorry about waffling on there. I'm just pretty proud of myself for figuring that out after that season 2 ana lucia episode!

ZiabR

8

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

With episodes like these, I never read the whole thread before posting a reply. That's a good sign. It means I'm so excited to talk about this episode that I don't have time to read other peoples comments before me (selfish, I know. But I'll get round to it!)

One of the best episodes of season 3. I bet the peopls who were slagging season 3 are pretty ashamed right now, because lately the episodes have been top of their game.

It's great that we have some action at the beach instead of just focussing on Kate/Sayid/Locke, which they could have done. Claires plan was good, it was a cheesy note that she attached to the bird at the end, though! Usually Charlie just p1sses me off (and to think I loved him in series 1) but it was so sweet that Charlie would have got killed trying to catch that bird just for Desmond. Another thing that the writers could have messed up; at the beginning when we see Charlie and Desmond talking to each other - it's obvious it's to do with Charlie dying because of something or other. If we thought about it enough we could have figured it out with little information - but it's nice that it was all wrapped up at the end...that we knew why Charlie and Desmond were acting this way and more importantly somebody else (Claire) knows about Desmonds weird psychic power.

The scenes with Patchey were good. I remember Ben saying something while he was captured; "Our leader is a great man....but he is not a forgiving one". When we found out that Ben was in charge I thought he was talking about himself...In this episode Patchey says something about their leader as well and it is not Ben (as I assumed). So I wonder who is it? Not Alvar Hanso surely?

The security pylons were interesting. On one hand I didn't want Patchey to die (even though I knew he wouldn't tell them anything and the Others wouldn't trade Jack) but I still would have liked the Losties to have something to bargain for...a la when they held Ben in captive. Anyway, it was really cool when all the foam came out of his mouth and the blood out of his ears. I was thinking that if Sawyer came along on the trip (and had he gone first over the pylons), it would be like his character to pretend to be being electrocuted once he dropped down, just to scare the others. Would have been funny to see!

Great closing scene with Jack. Great...but it still annoyed me. It's Jack after all...he's the 'hero' - the Others can't have him! I was wondering why nobody was stopping him when he was running - and how he had seen the Kate etc. in the bushes so quickly.

So what are the options?

A) The Others are essentially the 'good guys' and the Losties are the 'bad guys'

Jack was brainwashed like Alex's fella (who, btw, seems to be slightly more on the Other's 'side')

C) The Others simply told them the whole story (why they want certain people - why they kidnapped the children etc.)

This could overlap with option A and it could be that the Others are creating a sort of Utopia. Picking the best people (I don't know how they determine who is good and who is not. Speaking of the list...we now know that Kate and Sayid are not on the list but Locke is (as we assumed from Ben supposedly going to get him, before he supposedly got captured by Danielle).

I agree with Patchey though - Locke has changed....I wonder whats up...

Wow I have written so much and it's all over the place. Sorry about that. It's just that we're slowly getting more answers and there's so many possibilities! Let's just hope next week doesn't let us down and it's not a filler....

I still don't think Jack is brainwashed. He is a very smart man and i think that he is playing along with the Others just to gain their trust etc. He will gather info on them for a few eps and then he will make a decision on escaping. As i said before i would not be surprised if/when Kate/Loche/Sayid get to Jack that he acts weird and pretends to turn on his fellow losties JUST to gain trust with the others, much like a spy.

Sad Professor

8

Also, there's been some suggestion over at the Losttv forums that Charlie may have palmed the note before giving the bird to Claire—if you look carefully you can see what appears to be a piece of white paper in his hand. It may just be a production error though, but if not it might make for an interesting twist. Maybe Charlie has grown so close to Claire that he doesn't want to leave the island.

Sad Professor

8

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

What? I thought the barracks was where Walt was taken to with Ms Klugh etc.? And wasn't that found to be abandoned, and in fact there was no Dharma station there at all? I seem to remember Sayid going there...it was near the coast I think...although it was high up on a cliff. I hope there's a good shot of the map that Sayid has in the next episode!

Why aren't the Others worried about the Losties finding them? It didn't seem that long of a trek to get to Othersville....although it is in the centre of the island right? But then it only took Goodwin 10minutes to get to the coast. Ahhhh! Confusing!

Sayid's map (from the Flame) was of the barracks, including the name. And it's definitely near the coastline, look at the pic I posted.

anotherlostie

8

dan_y wrote:

you all (generalisation) keep saying how they couldn't spend as long as they have on the island without discovering all of this stuff - but there are places on achill island I've never seen and I've stayed there for 3 months before. the survivors have pretty much lived on the beach, in the caves, and in the hatch. besides the main characters, they've only gone into the jungle for food. and when the main characters do go farther in, it's to find something specific. even sayid, the resident gijoe-of-all-trades, followed the beaches around the island when he was looking for rousseau. it's not bull island, the place is huge - it took ana lucia's team days to reach the other survivors from their beach. and the barracks (according to the map) is in the centre of the island - somewhere no one has had any reason to go, until now.

I agree that in 80 odd days, you could not expect the entire island to be mapped, even with Sayid at work. But surely Rousseau would have seen the friggin fence at some point;I mean it's not like she spent the last 16 years watching reruns of Oprah and Dr. Phil...

cooker3

anotherlostie wrote:

I mean it's not like she spent the last 16 years watching reruns of Oprah and Dr. Phil...

How do you know she hasn't!

Sad Professor

8

anotherlostie wrote:

I agree that in 80 odd days, you could not expect the entire island to be mapped, even with Sayid at work. But surely Rousseau would have seen the friggin fence at some point

Yeah I find this hard to believe as well which is why I'm fairly sure Rousseau isn't telling the whole truth. There's a reason we haven't seen a flashback for her yet. But I'm almost certain that's she's not an Other and was telling the truth about most things, including her daughter being taken from her.

I suspect she may have been Dharma originally. She was acting very strange around Mikhail and was too eager to kill him, possibly to protect his secrets. Maybe she untied him. Also I'm not entirely convinced that Mikhail is one of Ben's people, he doesn't seem to fit the profile: he's clearly not an original inhabitant of the island (Juliet isn't either but with good reason imo) and seems more like a Dharma recruit. Maybe he was telling the truth the first time.

ZiabR

8

Yeah Mikhail was a strange char alright. He was mixing parts of the truth in with a bunch of lies. When he first started talking he mentioned where he came from and how he got to the island etc. Once he was found out to be an "Other" he changed his story a little but some of the points he made were exactly the same as the first conversation.

I think he was partly telling the truth but 70% of it was lies. As for Rousseau, she is defo not telling the whole truth and knows alot more than the losties think.

Lothaar

Is it possible that the entire series is based loosely on John Milton's 'Paradise Lost'? It would explain why it's called 'Lost', among other things. I studied Book I of this epic in secondary school, and briefly went over the other 11 books, but I'm far from an expert.

Perhaps a discussion worthy of another thread?

Keyzer

Can someone remind me why it was so obvious about Claire and Jack being brother and sister? I went off the boil with Lost for a while but am back into it now.

dan_y

anotherlostie wrote:

I agree that in 80 odd days, you could not expect the entire island to be mapped, even with Sayid at work. But surely Rousseau would have seen the friggin fence at some point;I mean it's not like she spent the last 16 years watching reruns of Oprah and Dr. Phil...

I agree, she knows the entire island back to front. she probably even knows about the second island. she's lying. I just don't know why. (or I'm wrong)

Star Lord

9

Its basically from Anna Lucia's flashback which involved her going around in Austrailia with Christian Shepherd, driving him to a house where he argued with a woman at the door because he wanted to see his daughter.

(In retrospect, it was probably Claires aunt at the door)

When you put 1 + 1 together, it had to be an Austrailian girl was his daughter, hence Claire.

Star Lord

9

anotherlostie wrote:

I agree that in 80 odd days, you could not expect the entire island to be mapped, even with Sayid at work. But surely Rousseau would have seen the friggin fence at some point;I mean it's not like she spent the last 16 years watching reruns of Oprah and Dr. Phil...

I think she's part of the Dharma team that went to the Island. The "others" were there long before that.

"We're not the bad guys here" = The "others" are 'good' and the Dharma guys were the 'bad' guys.

basquille wrote:

I'd certainly like to give her character an explore...

..... "if ya's know what i meannnnnnnn!!!" *

Mmmmmm... Claire exploration... *drools*

dan_y

Lothaar wrote:

Is it possible that the entire series is based loosely on John Milton's 'Paradise Lost'? It would explain why it's called 'Lost', among other things. I studied Book I of this epic in secondary school, and briefly went over the other 11 books, but I'm far from an expert.

Perhaps a discussion worthy of another thread?

paradise lost is about satan's war against god - how does it tie in? like what else would it explain?

dan_y

DamoElDiablo wrote:

"We're not the bad guys here" = The "others" are 'good' and the Dharma guys were the 'bad' guys.

so I wonder, who made evilblackcloud? or is that just part of the islands' appeal to sociopaths?

ZiabR

8

DamoElDiablo wrote:

Its basically from Anna Lucia's flashback which involved her going around in Austrailia with Christian Shepherd, driving him to a house where he argued with a woman at the door because he wanted to see his daughter.

(In retrospect, it was probably Claires aunt at the door)

When you put 1 + 1 together, it had to be an Austrailian girl was his daughter, hence Claire.

Yeah i re-watched this ep and it is clear as Damo says. It is Claires Aunt at the door and Christian is asking to see his Daughter. The argue for awhile and then he leaves.

Star Lord

9

The funny thing is we all took it at the time to be Claire's mum denying Christian from seeing his daughter, when now we know that it was Claire didn't want to see him and the Aunt also stopping him from seeing her.

Keyzer

DamoElDiablo wrote:

The funny thing is we all took it at the time to be Claire's mum denying Christian from seeing his daughter, when now we know that it was Claire didn't want to see him and the Aunt also stopping him from seeing her.

Interesting....

shellie11

8

What is the black cloud of smoke about..Im still freaked out over that and none the wiser....Is it suppose to be the devil

ZiabR

8

shellie11 wrote:

What is the black cloud of smoke about..Im still freaked out over that and none the wiser....Is it suppose to be the devil

It is possible that the black smoke is the cognitive collection of the others.

shellie11

8

logik wrote:

It is possible that the black smoke is the cognitive collection of the others.

What does that mean??

ZiabR

8

shellie11 wrote:

What does that mean??

Well it is best explained as:

**********************************************************

The term cognition is used in several loosely related ways to refer to a faculty for the human-like processing of information, applying knowledge and changing preferences. Cognition or cognitive processes can be natural and artificial, conscious and not conscious; therefore, they are analyzed from different perspectives and in different contexts, in anesthesia, neurology, psychology, philosophy, systemics and computer science. The concept of cognition is closely related to such abstract concepts as mind, reasoning, perception, intelligence, learning, and many others that describe numerous capabilities of human mind and expected properties of artificial or synthetic intelligence. Cognition is an abstract property of advanced living organisms; therefore, it is studied as a direct property of a brain or of an abstract mind on subsymbolic and symbolic levels.

**********************************************************

Essentially a collection of the Others or Dharmas thoughts, manifested in a non living organisiam. The voices we hear in the bushes many times, warned the losties of danger etc.

shellie11

8

logik wrote:

Well it is best explained as:

**********************************************************

The term cognition is used in several loosely related ways to refer to a faculty for the human-like processing of information, applying knowledge and changing preferences. Cognition or cognitive processes can be natural and artificial, conscious and not conscious; therefore, they are analyzed from different perspectives and in different contexts, in anesthesia, neurology, psychology, philosophy, systemics and computer science. The concept of cognition is closely related to such abstract concepts as mind, reasoning, perception, intelligence, learning, and many others that describe numerous capabilities of human mind and expected properties of artificial or synthetic intelligence. Cognition is an abstract property of advanced living organisms; therefore, it is studied as a direct property of a brain or of an abstract mind on subsymbolic and symbolic levels.

**********************************************************

Vey smart Logik!! :rolleyes:

ZiabR

8

shellie11 wrote:

Vey smart Logik!! :rolleyes:

Edited to add in the end.

Star Lord

9

The cognitive collection of the others?

It wouldn't have physical manifestation as smoke, and wouldn't make noise and spark with electro static flashes...

I still think that it is a kind of a machine veiling itself in the "black smoke" that we know of. The Cerberus security system. Also suggesting that there are 3 of them, cerberus being the 3 headed guard dog in legend. One being the agressive black smoke that attacked people and killed Mr Eko. The other being the more passive black smoke that shows people visions, that John Locke and Mr. Eko looked into and saw various things in. The third being the "Hurley bird" that has been shown a few times.

Sad Professor

8

While Smokey can obviously take the form of people from the past as well as the power to deal out judgements on the lostaways, I think it's purpose as a "security system" may be to protect a certain part of the island against intrusion. Going by the blastdoor map Smokey's real name may be Cerberus, a reference to Greek mythology. Cerberus was a three-headed dog that guarded the gates to Hades and allowed spirits to enter but not leave. Remember in the first season when Smokey tried to drag Locke into a hole in the ground? Well I think there's another part of the island we have haven't seen yet

Crucifix

8

DamoElDiablo wrote:

The Cerberus security system.

Did we ever hear it refered to as Cerberus in the show?