Anybody ever get plain sick of linux?

techguy

Hi,
I have recently installed ubuntu (dapper drake) on an old machine I had at home..I gave it loads of time to learn about it.. but now I am really getting pissed off with it. To do anything it seems you have to google for a command or google how to edit a configuration file..
What is so wrong with a gui to help you configure things? And another thing, installing something then it completely disappears, how do i find it, see it running???

It's really frustrating that to do the simplest thing there is a lot involved.
I would consider myself pretty good with computers (Mainly windows and some Mac) but this seems to be something completely different..how could someone move over to linux from Windows or Mac and be happy and find it easy and WHY??

I have a win2003 server disc lying there itching to be tried..GUIs and a familiar environment...how easy would that be?? But I feel that i'd be giving in and Linux wouldnt get a chance..

I would love to be knowledgable in linux but it takes so much time and effort..

Anybody else ever feel like I do now??

Rant over..:)

Techguy

feylya

There is a gui in Ubuntu... startx is your friend. There's usually a gui interface for any Linux command. Let me ask you this - when you were learning Windows, did you ever have to google a command or read a manual?

techguy

feylya wrote:

Let me ask you this - when you were learning Windows, did you ever have to google a command or read a manual?

No, actually just kinda figured stuff out.. I suppose that's what I have to with linux. I'm not used to having very little control over the OS i'm using.

I am now beginning to realise how the older generation/computer iliterate feel with windows..

Ubuntu the official guide arrived in my college library yesterday..but the clowns left it in the wrong place. If I can find it on tuesday then it will probably make a lot of things clear..

I also suppose running linux on a decent machine would ease my patients.

I'm running it on 700Mhz and around 320mb RAM.. and applications are sluggish to start up, is this right?

Techguy..

feylya

You have more control over linux than you do with Windows...

dr zoidberg

You'd probably be better off with Xubuntu on a machine with those specs.

I guess it does seem strange at first, but a lot of configuration is still done with the command line in linux, and if you can get used to it it can be easier than using a GUI.

And yes, you do have to use google for nearly everything but at the same time it's a matter of a few clicks to find out how to sort something out, there's simply no windows equivalent to the documentation available for ubuntu in particular (ubuntuguide.org and ubuntuforums.org especially).

It is hard, but it is like learning a different language, you can't expect linux to be windows or do everything it does (or vice versa). You just have to take it on its merits and if you honestly don't think it's worth the hassle you might as well stick with windows. Personally I love the customisability of it and the challenge of solving the little problems, plus of course Beryl :cool:

By the way, not all apps add entries to the menu - you can launch them in a terminal by typing their name or you can manually edit the menu to add an entry for them.

AndrewMc

dr zoidberg wrote:

I guess it does seem strange at first, but a lot of configuration is still done with the command line in linux, and if you can get used to it it can be easier than using a GUI.

I think it's also the case that it is much, much easier to list one or two totally unambiguous typed commands (that the user can copy/paste) than to go through the whole tedium of listing the dozen different things to click on in the GUI to achieve the same effect. Likewise, in a problem-solving scenario, it's nicer to have the output of a shell command posted back than a screenshot.

DonkeyStyle \o/

feylya wrote:

You have more control over linux than you do with Windows...

The potential for more control, sure... if you know what you're doing.
Getting to the stage where you have as much control over Linux as you do with Windows is a more frustrating learning curve IMO.
I think with Windows you gain more control faster.

Anybody ever get plain sick of linux?

Yep, every single time I try it.
I get pangs of "If this was Windows I'd have this sorted out already".
I'd compare it to having to become a mechanic before you can drive.
Things that were trivial to do in Windows become a bewildering song and dance effort in Linux.
I think the first step in getting over this frustration is accepting that you'll have to start again and spend a while learning how to crawl... let go of your expectations.
Distros that claim to be simple and user friendly píss me off as well... like the time I tried WinLinux... they're just setting people up for disappointment with promises of an easy experience IMO.

But at least we don't have to worry about win-modems any more, I'm glad to see the last of those

Cake Fiend

This is like saying that Japanese is really difficult, because you don't speak it and have to spend years learning grammar, syntax, vocabulary, writing system, etc. On the other hand, a lot of Japanese people find English very difficult (I bet you don't) for the same reasons.

If you grew up using linux, you wouldn't find it difficult. You've probably spent years and years learning Windows by now, so it's not a fair comparison.

Naikon

Well, its Different I must say, but frankly I am getting sick of Windows:D

It just goes to show how Reliable Linux/Unix Os Sytems are when server uptimes are measured in years rather than months or even weeks:)

DonkeyStyle \o/

@Sico
Ah come on... take installing a driver for example.
Windows: double-click .exe >> click next ten times >> click finish >> reboot
You don't need years of windows experience to bluff your way through that.
"Hmm should I click 'Next' or 'Cancel'... let me google it"
Linux: Rather more complicated
Granted it's not Linux's fault, but that's been the reality of my experience and I feel justified in my bouts of frustration.

I take your point though... I remember when I first got a PC... it loaded to a DOS prompt and I hadn't a clue what to type
Imagine my excitement when someone showed me how to start Windows 3.11 after months of thinking only DOS was available.
Aah good times.

oscarBravo

My experience with Linux leads me to ask: what's a driver?

Seriously, I've recently mentioned my experiences with installing Linux compared with Windows.

To give some balance, I had a problem with FC4 on a Fujitsu Siemens server - the problem was that the SATA RAID controller was a somewhat obscure model that wasn't supported by the standard kernel. FS had a downloadable driver (actually, a kernel module) available for Red Hat, but not Fedora.

The solution? I had to edit the Red Hat driver to work with the Fedora install. Granted, it was a pretty tedious process, but at least it was possible - I just opened the .ko file in vi, changed one character and saved it.

If there was no device driver available for your particular version of Windows, what would your options be?

On the thread topic: no, I never get sick of Linux because I use it all the time. I get sick of Windows, though. Simple stuff is just so bloody tedious to do because there are no decent command line ways of doing them. One thing I have to do a lot is change the IP address of my network connection. On Linux it takes me roughly five seconds to do it; maybe ten if I need to change default routes also. On Windows there's all that tedious bloody clicking, and then it takes so damn long...

It's a question of what you're used to.

DonkeyStyle \o/

oscarBravo wrote:

My experience with Linux leads me to ask: what's a driver?

I'd say - a piece of software that bridges the gap between the OS and otherwise incomprehensible hardware.

oscarBravo wrote:

If there was no device driver available for your particular version of Windows, what would your options be?

When I start using different distros of Win2k, I'll let you know.
tbh the same problems were encountered by Linux developers back when nobody could get their win-modems working... nobody knew how the hardware worked, the manufacturers wouldn't play ball, so nobody could develop drivers for it.

oscarBravo wrote:

Simple stuff is just so bloody tedious to do because there are no decent command line ways of doing them. One thing I have to do a lot is change the IP address of my network connection.

Try netsh, but much like Linux; how ever would you find it if you didn't already know it was there?
I know what you mean though, once you get a few Linux commands under your belt; the feeling of control is immense, and you can get a lot done quickly.

oscarBravo wrote:

On Windows there's all that tedious bloody clicking, and then it takes so damn long...

Sure, but you wouldn't have to google for instructions on how to do it... it's easy to figure out if you already understand what you want to do.

oscarBravo

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

I'd say - a piece of software that bridges the gap between the OS and otherwise incomprehensible hardware.

It was a rhetorical question. I know what a driver is; my point is that I much more rarely need to know what a driver is when using Linux than Windows.

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

When I start using different distros of Win2k, I'll let you know.

I remember upgrading my Dad's PC from Windows 98 to Windows 2000 several years ago. The first consequence of that action was having to buy a new printer, because the '98 drivers didn't work on '2k, and Lexmark weren't bothered about updating the drivers for an older printer.

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

tbh the same problems were encountered by Linux developers back when nobody could get their win-modems working... nobody knew how the hardware worked, the manufacturers wouldn't play ball, so nobody could develop drivers for it.

See above. The difference between Windows and Linux is that once that type of problem is solved once on Linux, it stays solved.

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

Try netsh, but much like Linux; how ever would you find it if you didn't already know it was there?

Useful - I'll remember that next time I'm forced to use a Windows machine, thanks.

Blowfish

Usually installing stuff on Linux is actually easier than windows. For example the machine I am on now is running SuSe. Like xp, it started without codecs for DVD, divx etc. About 2 weeks ago I got broadband and hooked it up. Without me even realising it was doing it, the automatic update kicked in and installed all of the codecs for me, and updated every single peice of software on my machine. Windows doesn't even come close to that.

ethernet

Installation was the best, particularly for Windows users. I wiped my hard drive at least once when I know nothing about partitions. I used to hope SuSE would work its magic and read my mind. After brushing up on that though, all has been well.

The codec situation is a downer. If people don't want to make too much effort to get different file types playing, they'd be better off getting Xandros or that particular varient of Mandriva or others.

Another point: just don't use wireless! I bought a wireless bridge from Linksys to connect to my wireless router. This has a wired connection to a router and then to my PC. All works perfectly and painlessly -- no drivers required.

DonkeyStyle \o/

oscarBravo wrote:

It was a rhetorical question. I know what a driver is;

I didn't presume you didn't know, I just wanted to know how your definition differed from this since using Linux.

oscarBravo wrote:

my point is that I much more rarely need to know what a driver is when using Linux than Windows.

I'm about the same with Linux as I am with Windows, but for different reasons... although Ubuntu is better for picking up and silently installing most of my hardware, I still find myself in search of config tools that generally come as standard in a Windows driver package... and that's often where the nightmare begins. :eek:
(I still haven't gotten the official nVidia drivers to install, but I've enjoyed the hours spent trying)

oscarBravo wrote:

I remember upgrading my Dad's PC from Windows 98 to Windows 2000 several years ago. The first consequence of that action was having to buy a new printer, because the '98 drivers didn't work on '2k, and Lexmark weren't bothered about updating the drivers for an older printer.

Yeah I've got hardware like that too, but I wouldn't compare that to using drivers from distro X in distro Y by changing a single character in a file... which I think is how we got here.

oscarBravo wrote:

See above. The difference between Windows and Linux is that once that type of problem is solved once on Linux, it stays solved.

Yeah fair enough.
That's interesting actually... if the Linux community understands how a piece of hardware works and can write drivers for it... couldn't someone take that knowledge and build a new Windows driver for that (now practically defunct) hardware?

eoineen

Blowfish wrote:

Usually installing stuff on Linux is actually easier than windows. ... installed all of the codecs for me, and updated every single peice of software on my machine. Windows doesn't even come close to that.

Ok, I see what you are saying here and updates and all that are a snap but after downloading Firefox 2.0.0.2 from the mozilla site I did not know what to do with the extracted files from the tarball. The Add / Remove function in Ubuntu just did not see it on the desktop.

am a linux newbie too but not afraid of the Terminal et al if I only knew where to start? What's the command to kick up the installation file in the extracted files? Clicking on the Updater file did not use that and so can see why the poster would get plssed with linux.

scojones

I have been using Windows since the 3.1 days and Linux since 1995. OP, what are you having problems with? I can point you in the right direction.

Khannie

Good gawd...I remember that feeling. I reckon I installed linux about 10 times before removing windows. The single most frustrating experience of my life was trying to get mythtv up and running when it was still in its early(ish) days.

All this frustration eventually gets you to a point where you couldn't possibly go back to windows because you just get things done faster in linux. And when a problem comes along....no problem...you've got the experience.

Stick with it. (and yes, I'd expect sluggishness on a 700MHz pc with 320M of ram).

NutJob

Good gawd...I remember that feeling. I reckon I installed linux about 10 times before removing windows. The single most frustrating experience of my life was trying to get mythtv up and running when it was still in its early(ish) days.

My last install wasn't too bad

Fought with a RT2500 driver for two weeks(WPA)
Gave up

Bought an atheros card solved in two min.

Patched madwifi got unstable version of kismet running (eventually)

Fought with Dmraid for ten min

Fought with Beryl for two days gave up (ATI)

ran badblock rw on a mounted partition (stupid as its not like it doesnt tell you its a bad idea)

Started all over again

But i will say you get quicker at installing stuff each time you feel like breaking your install

ethernet

Khannie wrote:

Good gawd...I remember that feeling. I reckon I installed linux about 10 times before removing windows. The single most frustrating experience of my life was trying to get mythtv up and running when it was still in its early(ish) days ...

MythTV! Don't talk to me about it. I managed to install it on openSUSE 10.1 but no luck in 10.2. I even installed all depedencies AND managed to get my TV card working after a good spot of hacking. Bring on 10.3.

joe_chicken

NutJob wrote:

My last install wasn't too bad

Fought with a RT2500 driver for two weeks(WPA)
Gave up

Bought an atheros card solved in two min.

Patched madwifi got unstable version of kismet running (eventually)

Fought with Dmraid for ten min

Fought with Beryl for two days gave up (ATI)

ran badblock rw on a mounted partition (stupid as its not like it doesnt tell you its a bad idea)

Started all over again

Haha..."Fought" haha.. so true...

I've reinstalled linux about 10 times on the same machine for the past 2 weeks... (SuSe, Ubuntu and Fedora 4&5)

I've battled a 9800 pro and an rt61...

the 9800 beat me in Ubuntu and Fedora, and only worked in one install of SuSe, but then my rt61 wouldnt work

reinstalled SuSe and I can't get the 9800 working again (Linux + ATi = pants)

Currently battling ntfs-3g on a Ubuntu install on another machine... (see other thread)

So Glad

Yeah, yeah.

First Ubuntu install, couldn't find the "ok" button on the liveCD install because the resolution (no drivers) was blocking it. Took me 15 minutes to find out how to move it.

Installed it, couldn't change ****ty resolution. Took 3 days to fix.

Beryl took a whole day.

Sound didn't work took 1 day to fix.

TeamSpeak had no sound (only works if it is the only sound using program running :S)

Lots of internet videos wouldn't work took 1-2 days to fix.

Got sick of Ubuntu errors, got Debian DreamLinux.

Couldn't install or move anything on it (No permission)

Gave up, reinstalled Ubuntu and now it's working nice and dandy.

The Beryl Ubuntu demos on YouTube look very inviting (and free) but they never tell you of the horrors Linux can present. I'm glad it's all over so I can really enjoy Linux (which I am )

Blowfish

heh, I seem to be extremely lucky.

I installed SuSe on one desktop, ubuntu on another, Freespire on my laptop and even OpenBSD on my server and have had absolutely no problems with hardware or software at all

So Glad

Blowfish wrote:

heh, I seem to be extremely lucky.

I installed SuSe on one desktop, ubuntu on another, Freespire on my laptop and even OpenBSD on my server and have had absolutely no problems with hardware or software at all

Yes well all of this happened on a Dell.









Nuff said.

Blowfish

Actually one of the desktops and the laptop of mine are both dells.

So Glad

Blowfish wrote:

Actually one of the desktops and the laptop of mine are both dells.

So...just bad luck then?

oscarBravo

ethernet wrote:

MythTV! Don't talk to me about it. I managed to install it on openSUSE 10.1 but no luck in 10.2. I even installed all depedencies AND managed to get my TV card working after a good spot of hacking. Bring on 10.3.

Got it working here on three Ubuntu machines (one master backend, one slave with tuner, and this laptop) plus a dedicated minimyth frontend connected to my projector. Currently sitting in bed watching Collateral on the laptop. I just got it changing channels on the Sky box last night, so it's pretty much full-featured now.

Next step, multiple DVB-S tuner cards, emus and cams...

Edit: in an interesting twist, my Internet connection died while I was trying to post this: the breaker that my wireless router is on had tripped. I paused the movie, re-connected, and now I can carry on watching. Gotta love it.

mr_angry

Some good sources of help installing ATi drivers:
http://m.domaindlx.com/LinuxHelp/ati/ati.htm
http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Main_Page

In particular, for SuSE users (like myself):
http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/SuSE/OpenSuSE

Through experience, I've found that building an RPM out of the .run file is by far the best method to go by on SuSE.