Buying a renault laguna?

dil999

Don't think they actually make the wimmin ned. But definitely good:D

BrianD3

Seeing as Ned78 is avoiding the question about how 2nd hand Lagunas depreciate compared to class rivals I've done my own survey of carzone prices

VW Passat 1.6.
2001 cars - majority are 8-9k but one joker (a dealer) is looking for 16 grand and there are 3 other cars 10-12k
1999 cars - majority are about 5k with one each at around 6, 7, 8.

Avensis 1.6
2001 cars - majority of cars 7-9k
1999 cars - majority of cars 4-5k

Mondeo 1.8 petrol
2001 cars - majority of cars 7-9k
1999 cars - one car approx 2.5k

Laguna 1.6
2001 - majority of cars 6-8k
1999 - majority of cars 3-4.5k

It should be noted that the Mondeo and Laguna had all new models in that time period so should be at a disadvantage for depreciation compared to the other two. As can be seen however, there is no evidence to suggest that Lagunas of this age are any worse for depreciation than any of the others. And in fact going by asking prices on carone, if any car tends to be overpriced on carzone and therefore a potential bad investment, it's the Passat.

Now I'll do a comparison using the ROS VRT calculator. I picked out 2002-2001 Laguna IIs to avoid any discepancy with changing models. For comparsion I picked the facelifted Passat

Laguna II 1.6 Authentique 2002 60k open market selling price 7184
Laguna II 1.6 Authentique 2001 72k open market selling price 5575

Passat 1.6 base 2002 60k open market selling price 8713
Passat 1.6 base 2001 72k open market selling price 6917

I'll let the results speak for themselves.

colm_mcm

Not an exact science, using the revenue's guess-ometer and carzone's optimism.
If I had a 01 Laguna, I'd ask plenty for it to cover inevitable costs or to be able to offer decent trade in to make the deal more attractive.

BrianD3

colm_mcm wrote:

Not an exact science, using the revenue's guess-ometer and carzone's optimism.
If I had a 01 Laguna, I'd ask plenty for it to cover inevitable costs or to be able to offer decent trade in to make the deal more attractive.

Not an exact science colm - but a helluva lot better than people making sweeping statements on the internet.

The carzone prices are certainly optimistic but they are at least close to being "like-for-like" so can be compared to each other if nothing else. The Revenue prices can also be compared to each other and do make sense - given perceptions in ths country it's reasonable that a 2002 Passat base is worth 1500+ quid more than a Laguna authentique even if the Passat is an obsolete model and the Laguna is still in production (albeit facelifted)

As for reliability, Passats that are being recommended in the thread aren't the most relaible things in the world either. And the Avensis that was recomended by Ned has been obsolete for 4 years and when the next Avensis comes out (2 years time?) will be obsolete by 2 generations. You could also mention the fact that a 2001 Laguna has a 5 star NCAP rating which is ahead of anything else in the same year/class/price range and it is certainly better equipped than others in the same price range even if Ned78 seems to think it isn't

dil999

Unfortunately with Carzone you have no idea if those cars are selling at those prices. With my 6 yo Xantia I had it up for 6 months at around £3k when they were selling for around £18K new. I didn't get one offer. alot of the 99 cars for 4K will never sell at those price. (although that being said there since is a new demographic in Ireland that probably changes the market for cars priced in that range)

Revenue's prices are there for the sole purpose of calculating VRT. The prices they use will maximise that tax

The real problem with buying a 2001 laguna is not the depreciation its that is not a patch on the other cars previously mentioned in terms of reliability, performance and handling.

BrianD3

dil999 wrote:

is not a patch on the other cars previously mentioned in terms of reliability, performance and handling.

That's BS. Not a patch in terms of performance or handling? We're talking about the Toyota Avensis and VW Passat here. The Laguna handles at least as well as those two but not as good as the Mondeo, in any case most owners in this class couldn't give a toss about what are small differences in handling.

Performance of the Laguna is if anything above average for the class. Check for yourself the bhp of the 1.6 Laguna compared to the 1.6 Passat or the 1.8 LX Mondeo.

As for reliability I will concede that Avensis is probably ahead but no way will I concede that a feckin Passat is ahead. VW are fast acquiring a reputation for poor reliability. Everyone I know with a Passat has had a litany of problems with them.

Re: carzone prices - they're ALL overpriced on there. And revenue maximising taxes has SFA to do with whether the Renault Laguna is a crap car or not.

Anyhow, I am fed up of this boring thread. Good luck.

cold_filter

Sorry guys i didn't realise my car question would cause such a debate!!
Thanks for all the advice,

One thing that seems common place are peoples views on the reliability of the laguna, having 2 fiats and being very sick of pumping money into a car is not what i want to do. The reason why i picked the laguna is i drove by one for sale in south dublin last week and just dropped in to have a look, i was impressed with the spec and the price isn't bad it only has 50k miles on it.

Saying that when i told my friend i was thinking of buying a laguna, he said "it will have problems but not as many as your fiat"

The chances of me getting a laguna are now pretty slim im sure much to the chagrin of the dealer!!

dil999

BrianD3 wrote:

That's BS.

Ah! you are the same bloke from the roundabout thread I thought I recognised the unique writing style.

The mondeo 1.8 has the same PS as the 1.6 laguna and 17 Nm extra torque => more performance. The reliability one is obviously a liitle more subjective but the "what car reliability survey" puts renault in 25th of 30 behind toyota (3rd) VW (15th) and Ford (20th)

or have a look at this:

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/man_index_2.html?apc=3128339010848601&searchtype=relindex
or this
http://corp.jdpower.com/jdpcc/global/uk/ukpvs/ukPowerVehicleSelector.jsp

Maybe everyone you know with a passat is very unlucky.

briand3 wrote:

And revenue maximising taxes has SFA to do with whether the Renault Laguna is a crap car or not.

You brought up the revenues prices

It would be nice to be able to post in these forums without being told the post are "BS" when they clearly aren't or that we are posting because we have some vested business interest etc, when we clearly dont.

regards
Dil

dil999

cold_filter wrote:

The chances of me getting a laguna are now pretty slim im sure much to the chagrin of the dealer!!

You weren't buying it of Briand3 by any chance

johnnyrotten

Had a Laguna Supersport '02.

It was a very comfortable, Safe car.....BUT......Heavy on juice, loads of electrical problems, unbelievable depreciation

cold_filter

nope!! I'm trying to decide what to buy now, my gf would like me to get a santa fe a 01-02, im not sure if i should start a thread about that,,,

cold_filter

johnnyrotten wrote:

Had a Laguna Supersport '02.

It was a very comfortable, Safe car.....BUT......Heavy on juice, loads of electrical problems, unbelievable depreciation

what was the most expensive elc problem johnny?

dil999

cold_filter wrote:

nope!! I'm trying to decide what to buy now, my gf would like me to get a santa fe a 01-02, im not sure if i should start a thread about that,,,

have a look at the jd power link in the rant, (sorry post) i posted a few minutes ago its a good starting point. also parker.co.uk and whatcar.co.uk are 2 very good sites.

regds
Dil

Mahatma coat

I had a Laguna 1, lovely car, very comfy no mechanical or electrical faults to think of, this then prompted my mother to buy a Laguna 11 also a lovely car with no problems or faults like.

to the OP -- now I'm not massivley into marque bashin meself, almost all manufacturers have some redeemin features-- but, a Fckn Santa Fe aw come on yer just trying to get people to say nasty things aret you

junkyard

BrianD3 wrote:

PS mentioning "junkyard" as a shining example of the motor trade may not help your case. This is the guy who was trying to flog a Laguna in his signature one month and the next month was telling everyone that that he'd rather stick pins in his eyes :rolleyes: Is it any wonder that people are cynical

I had the misfortune to trade in a 01 Laguna which I eventually sold at a loss (3200 euros) this is one of the reasons I've been trying to warn people off buying them and the minefield of problems that go with them. And ned, from what I've read of BrianD3's posts I wouldn't get too concerned, it seems to me that his opinion is the only one that matters as far as he's concerned anyway.:) Any of the other guys in the motor trade on here have given expert advice and helped people out and offered advice and I'm sure, will continue to do so. So much so that I often learn a lot here and I'm 30 years working in the motor trade myself.

Owen

Funnily enough BrianD3, I wasn't avoiding anything - I was actually out for the day with herself seeing as it was a bank holiday and all. You've proven your ignorance of the Market by using Carzone as a defacto guide for second hand prices (And to use your own term, accompanied it with many many 'sweeping statements'), where as I, and many others, just used it to point out what alternative deals are available. It's even more humourous to hear you contradict yourself over and over again. Lets see what you did wrong this time

BrianD3 wrote:

carzone prices - they're ALL overpriced on there.

Setting yourself up for a fall ...

BrianD3 wrote:

I've done my own survey of carzone prices

... and here it is. If Carzone is so out, why are you using it as a reference?

BrianD3 wrote:

The carzone prices ... they are at least close to being "like-for-like"

How in God's name do you come to a conclusion like that? There is no car or price like-for-like on Carzone, people are free to ask whatever they want, whether it's too much or too little. You might as well use the Buy and Sell as a reference.

BrianD3 wrote:

Anyhow, I am fed up of this boring thread. Good luck.

In other words, you're wrong.

The Motor Trade would grind to a halt in the morning if Johnny-down-the-road asked 25000 for a 98 Laguna, and that meant every garage had to aswell (Cause you know, Carzone is always right :rolleyes: ). If you want to see an example of a well thought-out and accurate post, just look at dil999's and learn from that.

Regardless, all your whining and personal assaults have come to naught. The OP has chosen to ignore your advice - if you can call it that - and stay away from Lagunas.

BrianD3

ned78 wrote:

Funnily enough BrianD3, I wasn't avoiding anything - I was actually out for the day with herself seeing as it was a bank holiday and all.

Good for you.

You've proven your ignorance of the Market by using Carzone as a defacto guide for second hand prices (And to use your own term, accompanied it with many many 'sweeping statements'), where as I, and many others, just used it to point out what alternative deals are available.

Who was the first one to start talking about carzone

ned78 wrote:

they depreciate like nobody's business

then

ned78 wrote:

when you look at Carzone, you can still see that 2001 Lagunas, with average mileage are attempting to sell at between 7-9 grand. There's a lot of depreciation yet to go in those puppies.

then

ned78 wrote:

I've clearly provided examples of Renault Lagunas from 2001 where people are asking 8 grand for them.

You mention the poor deals on carzone for Lagunas but fail to mention the poor deals on other cars.

You use carzone prices as a way of backing up your "point" that the Laguna is a bad investment (full stop as you say yourself)

You fail to point out that there are overpriced Passats, Avensis and Mondeos on there and instead pick out more reasonably priced examples of those cars that suit your argument. Yes I think you were avoiding the question.

I, on the other hand have compared like for like by looking at average carzone prices for various cars. I've also mentioned the ROS valuation of two of the cars. I suppose that Lagunas are way overvalued on that as well but every other car is fairly priced :rolleyes: There's probably some conspiracy by the Revene (and carzone sellers) to hype up the price of Lagunas while valuing other cars at a fair price :rolleyes: Somehow "different rules" apply to Lagunas than to other cars

If you want to see an example of a well thought-out and accurate post, just look at dil999's and learn from that.

:rolleyes:

Regardless, all your whining and personal assaults have come to naught. The OP has chosen to ignore your advice - if you can call it that - and stay away from Lagunas.

I've given constructive advice in this thread. I told the OP what to look out for in Lagunas. You OTOH have spent much of the thread ranting about me questioning your motives. As well as that, you mix up trim levels on Lagunas, make incorrect statements about how well equipped they are and use junkyard to back up your points, repeat his pins in the eyes statement etc. And as I've pointed out above, you made a flawed argument about depreciation.

PS when I mentioned MINI drivers being tossers that was not meant as a personal assult on you rather an attempt to counter your own flippant generalistaion with one of my own. Sorry if that went over your head.

I am done with this thread now and the forum too. Many good posters don't post here much anymore because it's impossible to mention certain marques here without this sort of bullsh1t cropping up.

dil999

Whoh!

I think we need to transfer this thread to "Personal issues"

Owen

BrianD3 wrote:

You mention the poor deals on carzone for Lagunas but fail to mention the poor deals on other cars.

Well, is a thread about Lagunas, is it not?

BrianD3 wrote:

You use carzone prices as a way of backing up your "point" that the Laguna is a bad investment (full stop as you say yourself)

It is a bad investment! I highlighted the fact that they're overpriced, and still have a great deal of depreciating to do. I use carzone to highlight how over-expensive they are. You use Carzone as a yardstick to show how reasonable they are compared to other cars, yet you still ignore the fact that Carzone has zero consistancy. You cannot, cannot, cannot use Carzone as a defacto used car price reference.

BrianD3 wrote:

You fail to point out that there are overpriced Passats, Avensis and Mondeos on there and instead pick out more reasonably priced examples of those cars that suit your argument.

Of course I do. My objective was to show the OP that for similar money, he could indeed have a low mileage Passat, Mondeo or Avensis. Why would I search for the higher priced models? That makes no sense, unless I wanted to back up your flawed argument.

BrianD3 wrote:

I, on the other hand have compared like for like by looking at average carzone prices for various cars.

Obviously, you haven't. You came up with vastly more expensive cars than the three I offered the OP.

BrianD3 wrote:

I've also mentioned the ROS valuation of two of the cars.

Ah yes, the old "Well, I got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, my toast fell on the floor, my car was cold, I hate my job in the Revenue" method of pricing. There is no consistency in ROS either. Take it from someone who deals with them every day of the week.

BrianD3 wrote:

I've given constructive advice in this thread.

You've done nothing of the sort. You've accused people in this Forum of being up to no good. You've provided inaccurate, incorrect pseudo-facts at every hand's turn. You still think you're arrogance is a substitute for knowledge, and refuse to accept the word of people working in the Motor Trade even though there's a good chance they're probably right.

BrianD3 wrote:

You OTOH have spent much of the thread ranting about me questioning your motives.

Of course I did! I won't stand for anyone falsly accusing me, or anyone else in this thread of anything untoward.

BrianD3 wrote:

As well that you mix up trim levels on Lagunas

If you bothered to read the post where I commented on the trim levels I said "I stand to be corrected" - I'm not a Renault Dealer. I would love to see a Renault Dealer comment on BMW specs. They'd get it equally wrong, but I left the possibility that I was wrong open.

BrianD3 wrote:

And as I've pointed out above, you made a flawed argument about depreciation.

No I haven't, and you haven't provided any real world evidence to prove the contrary. Accept the possibility you're wrong, get a job in the Motor Trade, and wait for the day a Laguna rolls up to you. Then you'll get a pretty quick education.

BrianD3 wrote:

I am done with this thread now and the forum too.

That's a pity, you have the potential to be a good poster.

cold_filter

ah the joys of trying to pick a car.

Ok here is what i've learned,

1) Some people really don't like renault.
2) Quite of lot of renaults (lagunas) seem to have electrical problems.
3) Compared to passats, mondeos, they seem to have higher spec (a little higher)
4) The resale value isn't as high.

cold_filter

Ok guys the dealer called me and said he'd give me a 6 month warranty on the laguna.

So heres the situation.

I have a 01 Fiat brava with 64k on the clock and a 2 year nct.
01 Laguna with 50k on the clock for 7K
6 month warranty and 2.5k trade in on the brava...

is it worth it?????

Bear in mind if i was to buy this car ill probably keep it for a minimum of 2 years...

Owen

I shall refer you to your previous post. No is the answer, if you're keeping the car for 2 years, that's 18 months of ownership without a warranty. Russian roulette would be safer.

cold_filter

Cheers Ned, i guess he's eager to be rid of it!

Owen

No hassle. I'll never forget a time when I phoned one trade buyer about underwriting a Laguna Estate ... his quote was priceless, but very tastless too "It'd be easier to get rid of AIDS".

I'm sorry too Cold_Filter if this thread went very OT, it wasn't anyone's intention to let it do so.

cold_filter

How expensive are the electricals to fix?
No bother on the OT at least it got people talking about cars!!
now i just need to figure out what car i'm gonna get..!

Owen

cold_filter wrote:

How expensive are the electricals to fix?

I suppose it's dependent on what the problem is. You could be talking 50 Euro, or you could be talking thousands if some of the ECU's decide to commit seppuku.

cold_filter

Actually my gf knows a lad that is selling his 01 for 2k as there's "as its missing some chip in the accelerator and he's not sure how much it will cost"

How does a chip just go missing??

louie

lol, that's a good one. If you find out let us know how that chip went missing.
Probably rats.

cold_filter wrote:

How expensive are the electricals to fix?
No bother on the OT at least it got people talking about cars!!
now i just need to figure out what car i'm gonna get..!

It could turn out to cost you more then you think now a days, and even so if you shop around to few garages, you might be suprised the difference in price you can get for exactly the same part & job. That's the weird part when it comes from similar manufacturer dealers.

cold_filter

I know, i got a clutch fitted to my punto... my first car and very naive, it cost nearly 400, my friend did it for 220 i think