U.C.D students are semi literate

MrMatisse

Legendary economics boffin moore mc dowell on the radio yesterday talking about the modern ucd student.

Has he a point? or is he just an old codger;)

Spectator#1

I'd say he probably does have a point, yeah although I probably wouldn't go so far as to say the average UCD student though. I'd like to hear the interview before I commit myself to agreeing though!

Any chance there's a webcast of it or anything? What show was it on etc...?

This is probably going to be a long thread...

copacetic

he is prob right, but all students are and most of the rest of society too.

MrMatisse

radio one i think. There could probably be a thread devoted to his quotes though.

MrMatisse

you must have heard it too. we cant spell either.

(also double checked my spelling);)

Blowfish

Did he base this on any sort of study? If not, then it's not worth paying attention to.

MrMatisse

its just his em expert opinion

Blowfish

holyrood85 wrote:

its just his em expert opinion

heh, as an academic, you'd think he would know better than to give completely unsubstantiated claims like that, especially when they are going to be fairly controversial.

Spectator#1

Blowfish wrote:

heh, as an academic, you'd think he would know better than to give completely unsubstantiated claims like that, especially when they are going to be fairly controversial.

He's qualified to state that as an opinion as somebody who works in UCD. He wouldn't need evidence to substantiate an opinion claim - which is what I presume that was.

I'd be interested to know how he meant it. I can't find any webcasts of the interview, whose show was it on?

Young Siward

'Old codger' without question, arrogant beyond belief, dogmatic to the core, but Moore McDowell is a good lecturer regardless.
Not that I'd agree with his political beliefs in the slightest.....

Though it would be rather ironic to see him wheel out mass generalisations to prove a point. If the modern student is indeed illiterate, then surely it must be the system that is at fault, and as a member of the UCD Governing Authority, it would be up to the likes of Moore McDowell who must accept a degree of responsibility.

copacetic

Young Siward wrote:

' If the modern student is indeed illiterate, then surely it must be the system that is at fault, and as a member of the UCD Governing Authority, it would be up to the likes of Moore McDowell who must accept a degree of responsibility.

presumably he was talking about the standard of written english that students have when they arrive to the college? I think it is stretching it to to blame him or UCD.

Nothing new in this, it's nearly 10 years since I finished in UCD and the same things were said then as now.

pretty*monster

I wouldn't be at all suprised if he was correct.

Chakar

In what context did this comment occur? As part of a discussion on the education system and the students?

I think his comment is pushing the boat out a little too far.

copacetic

Chakar wrote:

In what context did this comment occur? As part of a discussion on the education system and the students?

I think his comment is pushing the boat out a little too far.

i would like to hear what exactly he said. I wouldn't be surprised if he meant
it as a compliment!

humbert

Without context I couldn't really comment but as a general statement I think it applies very widely to our generation and despite being a university UCD isn't an exception.

Courses at 300 points, go figure.

InFront

"Semi-literate" would imply serious literacy problems in the context of the highly demanding academic environment. This cannot be the case: UCD students are by and large what could be described as 'high achievers' in state examinations, they did not secure a place in UCD by mere partial literacy. McDowell in making his accusation of compromised vocabulary seems to be the one who misuses this pretty simple term.

The_Minister

Quote Deleted due to libellous content
He is the most entertaining lecturer that I have ever had. He was funny, informative, and interesting. Compared to most Economics lecturers he is Krusty the Klown. I loved his lectures, and always wondered what people in UCD that he would pawn that day.

gerry87

The_Minister wrote:

I loved his lectures, and always wondered what people in UCD that he would pawn that day.

Maybe Moore has a point... i don't know if it's you or me, but I've no idea what that says.

I didn't like his lectures at all. Very boring man.

Spectator#1

humbert wrote:

Courses at 300 points, go figure.

Points are determined solely by space and demand. They don't reflect in any way on the intelligence or literacy required to succeed in a course.

copacetic

Spectator#1 wrote:

Points are determined solely by space and demand. They don't reflect in any way on the intelligence or literacy required to succeed in them.

I think what he meant was that if you only managed 300 points at your leaving cert there is a chance that your skills aren't great.

I think thats a little unfair though, I did engineering in UCD back when you needed 490 to get in and there were plenty of 550+ points students with terrible spelling and grammar. Right enough it doesn't affect you that much in eng but to get points like that you needed to get high marks in all leaving cert subjects, including English.

Spectator#1

copacetic wrote:

I think what he meant was that if you only managed 300 points at your leaving cert there is a chance that your skills aren't great.

So what was he suggesting? We should raise the points for courses to cut out the chaff? That's like lowering the age of consent to deal with a paedophilia problem! I don't think the points have anything to do with it.

Plus, like you said, there's plenty of idiots doing 500+ point courses so I can't see how it might be effective.

copacetic

Spectator#1 wrote:

So what was he suggesting? We should raise the points for courses to cut out the chaff? That's like lowering the age of consent to deal with a paedophilia problem! I don't think the points have anything to do with it.

Plus, like you said, there's plenty of idiots doing 500+ point courses so I can't see how it might be effective.

well I dunno what he meant, as I said I thought it was unfair.

I actually agree that there are plenty of idiots doing 500+ points courses but poor spelling and grammar doesn't make you an idiot. What I do think is that you don't need great spelling or grammar to get high points in the LC so why would you work on it when you could be studying things that will get you extra points?

The fault is with our secondary education, it's nothing to do with UCD, it's just an example of a universal problem.

humbert

You're right, the leaving cert isn't a true reflection of your abilities in general.

It's more a reflection of how well you prepared for it but I do believe that, for example, science courses at 300 points is a recipe for a high drop out rate. But that's off topic.

The leaving cert course doesn't put nearly enough emphasis on spelling and grammar, particularly grammar*. Which I think is absurd, like. If we are never taught properly/rigorously and we are exposed to appalling English on television the result is not surprising.

*this may vary from school to school.

copacetic

humbert wrote:

It's more a reflection of how well you prepared for it but I do believe that, for example, science courses at 300 points is a recipe for a high drop out rate. But that's off topic.

well would agree with this. Although drop out and repeat rate in engineering was massive even back when you needed 500 or so to get in..

Sangre

Can we please keep the libellous comments to a minimum please? All offending posts have been removed, next one gets a ban.

The_Minister

gerry87 wrote:

Maybe Moore has a point... i don't know if it's you or me, but I've no idea what that says.

Its an internet thing.

Ah Moore mc
I enjoyed his lectures back in the day.
It's not that they were overly funny they were just plain interesting.

Has there been an outbreak of text speak in exam scripts and projects that is getting up his goat? Thats understandable.

If it's any consolation,UCD has always had a name for being semi illiterate in the sense of bad spellings or at least it had when I was a student there and Moore was giving out about it then.
Somethings are always the same,thats comforting.

Stepherunie

To say that is pigeon holing most students. Sure we have low points courses but we also have some of the highest points courses in the state, this does not of course say much but still, to say that all students are semi literate is complete speculation. Moore McDowell to say that of all students, most of whom he has never even met, let alone taught is ridiculous, he ridicules a student body he doesn't know, personally I take offence to that comment but unless I have it in context I'm unwilling to send him an email to that effect.

Ernie Ball

Stepherunie wrote:

To say that is pigeon holing

'Pigeonholing' (one word). Also, it should read 'is to pigeonhole'.

most students. Sure we have low points courses

'courses that don't require high points'

but we also have some of the highest points courses in the state, this does not of course say much but still,

'courses that require some of the highest points totals in the state'

Also, there should be a full stop or a semi-colon after 'state', not a comma.

to say that all students are semi literate is complete speculation. Moore McDowell to say that of all students,

'semi-literate' 'For Moore McDowell to say that of all students'

most of whom he has never even met, let alone taught is ridiculous, he ridicules a student body he doesn't know,

There should be full stops after 'ridiculous' and 'know.'

personally I take offence to that comment but unless I have it in context I'm unwilling to send him an email to that effect.

'Personally, I am offended by that comment, but unless I have it in context, I'm unwilling to send him an email to that effect.' (note the commas)

Are you sure you're in a position to take offence?

humbert

Dude, it's an internet forum!

Stepherunie

I'm going to go with I was drunk, it's impressive I did so well.

And yes, I feel I am in a position to say so, you are in no position to comment on my abilities on the basis of one post of mine that you have read.

And I'm guessing he was commenting on essays and exam scripts that he has corrected, have you seen any of my work? No, therefore I don't feel you're in a position to comment.