[Sticky]How to start in Aviation...

Celtic Mech

Dont listen to Cedar. He seems quite p****d off! Just because he doesnt like the work!
From someone who is also in the same job...I enjoy it. Ok the shift can be a pain at times, but hey, thats life. If you work in Line Maintenance, its a 24hour environment. Where-as Base Maintenance is, for the majority of the times..either on lates or earlies monday to friday.
There is great money in the job if you become licenced and type approved and willing to travel. If you go to www.aviationjobsearch.com and flick thru some of the available jobs for a licenced engineer, its great money. The least you would expect is about 30 pounds sterling per hour. 40 hours a week...thats 1200 Sterling a week. not bad.
There are loads of old sweats in the job who are just pure negative and will only say bad things about the job, but once you learn to block them out you will be grand. The other major place for apprenticeships in Ireland is SR Technics in Dublin.

dotty25

Hey,
Thanks so much for all of your replies. That's certainly given me a lot to consider. I'm probably a bit of a home bird so the night shifts and travelling may be a little bit of a problem way down the line. Although on the other hand, I find the "hands on" and technical aspects of the work really appealing. Tired of being tied to a desk
Thanks a mil for all the info - you've been a great help

cedar

Im glad celtic had some positives about the job.It certainly can be rewarding at times but it is quite limited in many ways!Let ys know how you get on!

gary o

If you want to work nights for many years than it's the career for you,its the perks of employment with an airline that keep most people satisfied(ryanair exempt..no perks like free travel).Ireland isnt the easiest country to work outdoors,or if the hangar door is open!:p,but from my experience the handiest jobs in the maintenance side of things are in the office,most of the guys have been mechs,b1,b2's for many years and then go into the office,either that or another airline in a higher position,take aer lingus & SRT out of the picture & not many mechs have long careers with one company,lot of journeymen around,very diverse backgrounds too.

Mythago

There is potential to make VERY good money in a short amount of time as a contracting Aircraft engineer BUT, workwise be prepared for long hours: minimum 60 hrs a week, but expect 77 to be the expected norm as a connie scumbag rates vary around €20 per hour. What I liked most about contracting was foreign contracts; Australia (3 months work financed 10 months down under), Mauritius (Terrible money, but great location), Holland, Germany, Italy etc...

If you stick out and get licenced (expensive & time consuming) though you can expect approx €45 hr, but with a sh!tload more responsibility.

Permament position wise, licenced is the only way to go, companies will generally help out & shift pattern wise you can expect 4 on 4 off. I've heard of people working 4 on 4 off in Heathrow & commuting from dub.

Personally, I'd stick with IT..... wish I had done 12 years ago:rolleyes:

zig

Hi im the exact same position as the OP, well a bit different, computer systems graduate. But have decided to change as I am very unhappy in the 9-5 office thing, and am too old for army(really wanted that).I have been looking into the aircraft mechanic career.
Just wondering has anyone recently finished the apprenticeship? How long is it? Is the pay terrible for the first few years?(Id imagine so)
When you say "licensed" , do you mean after 4 years of training or is it another 2 years after that before you'll start getting work?
If you were single and willing to travel would you have no problem getting work?

pclancy

Sticky? Cool thread for info for engineering careers.

Mythago

zig wrote: »

Hi im the exact same position as the OP, well a bit different, computer systems graduate. But have decided to change as I am very unhappy in the 9-5 office thing, and am too old for army(really wanted that).I have been looking into the aircraft mechanic career.
Just wondering has anyone recently finished the apprenticeship? How long is it? Is the pay terrible for the first few years?(Id imagine so)
When you say "licensed" , do you mean after 4 years of training or is it another 2 years after that before you'll start getting work?
If you were single and willing to travel would you have no problem getting work?

Apprenticeship = 2 or 3 yrs.
"A" Licence = Basic licence without a real career path.
"B" Licence = Industry equivalant to a Degree, more of a career path which requires minimum 2 years experience on aircraft + whatever time in training
*just a basic insight, the system is a lot more complex than that!*

The pay while permanent is rubbish to begin with. But as a single contractor willing to travel the money is good, but the hours are long. Don't be under the illusion that aircraft maintenance is a high tech industry; IT ISN'T.


Rough money:

Basic mech in Ireland approx €12-€14 hr (after minimum 2 yrs training)
Contracting Mech in Ireland €22+ (after buggering off from the permie job you just qualified in, expect weekly hrs in excess of 60)

Permanent B1 licenced Engineer €60-75,000 per annum
Contracting B1 Engineer €45 per hr (most work 60+ pw, some as high as 84)

pclancy

There's no way of getting an apprenticship without an engineering degree is there?

Celtic Mech

pclancy wrote: »

There's no way of getting an apprenticship without an engineering degree is there?

Course there is! Sure you can get an apprenticeship straight after your junior cert (provided you have half decent grades achieved).

Like any other job it has its ups and downs. Im not gonna say there are not times i get p***ed off at it! Like anything else, its what you make of it yourself. In another post, while not totally agreeing with Cedars Negativity...there are some points i would agree with. Now saying all that...who doesnt get annoyed with their job, and sick of it at times!??
The I.A.A. now, under one of their recent PLAMS, will accept your OJT portion of your apprenticeship as time towards the 2 or 3 yrs required before licence issue (provided all exams have been passed). My advice to anyone who is seriously considering this path is to just put the head down at times and study your @ss off for the EASA Part 66 exams. There is not very good money in just staying an unlicenced mechanic. Becoming licenced, along with the responsibility, is where the pay lies along with greater promotion opportunities. The exams can be a total pain sometimes...pass rate is 75%...you will fail on 74% with no sympathy given to you, along with being not allowed to sit the same axam again for another 90 days!
All other guys in same situation...give your opinions...

dotty25

Given your experience in the aeronautics area, is there another area you would've liked to go into? Aeronautical engineering? Even, Air Traffic Controller?

Celtic Mech

To be honest...Im not sure yet. Having a degree in aeronautical Enginering would most likely land you in the engineering department...i.e. office job, which to be honest is not for me. Air Traffic Control is a very interesting job, keeps you on your toes, challenging...but if i was to go and do that i would have to leave my job and train for probably about 2 years on trainee wages. With a mortgage to pay and bills to pay this is unfortunately not an option.

I would maybe in the future consider becoming a rep for an airline on a contract basis for maintenance visits (eg. C Checks etc..). I will no doubt go contracting for about a month or so each year, just to get away, get a change of scenery. Im licenced on 3 types of aircraft so there will always be work out there.
For a rough estimate on what can be earned through a variety of jobs in Aviation....go to www.aviationjobsearch.com

Captain Slow IRL

Hi all, sorry to rob the post! Is an aircraft maintenance engineer the same as a technician?! Just wondering as I'm considering if I should give my details to shannon aerospace and some of the stuff posted on this thread is opening up my eyes!

john_aero

america america america.

if you can get 5 weeks free and the cash just go to california and do it there. i did mine and it was cheap quick and great fun

lintdrummer

Was looking into this recently and there is a pilot training college in Waterford for anyone who's seriously thinking about becoming a pilot.
Basically you can do a day course where they give you aptitude tests and an introductory flight. If they think you are suitable to be a pilot they tell you you can apply for the course.
The thing is it costs €85000. That does include everything. Your accomodation in ireland, flights and accomodation to the US where you complete the ppl over 4 weeks etc. They have some agreement with AIB where they organise getting the finance for you if needs be.

Website is here

cp251

No, technician is a catch all phrase. Anybody can be a technician, photocopy technician, car technician. I used to work as junior clerk then was promoted to senior clerk, then a technical clerk. I imagine nowdays I would be described as clerical technician.

In Shannon Aerospace for example, (although I have no idea if that is the system, it's just an example) you may be a techncian with internal company approvals. So you could specialise in interiors or fuel tanks or be an instrument technician or whatever. Those skills or approvals may or may not be marketable outside the company.

On the other hand an Aircraft Maintenance Engineer is multi skilled and either licenced or intending to be so. Licensed Engineers can sign off their own work or sign off other people's work; technicians or apprentices. They can also work anywhere for anyone providing they have the appropriate type rating. 737, Airbus etc. The licence is not issued by the company but by the relevant aviation authority.

I don't know what happens in Shannon Aerospace but in the maintenance company I used to work for many of the lads were studying for the licences while they worked as 'mechanics' in the company. Most of them were originally car mechanics or car assembly workers. We had to keep the CAA publications under lock and key because they were constantly being 'borrowed' by budding Engineers using them as study aids.

starr11

Hi Cp251, Celtic Mech.
I'm looking from advice from someone who is already working as an aircraft mechanic. I have a few questions and i would be very grateful for any info.

Is it easy for a woman to get into this? Basically i've worked with an airline in the past on an admin side tho/reservations but i did thoroughly enjoy it, i'm currently completing an Avionics homestudy course through Kilroys College. I think I would like to do this but i guess im abit worried, i currently have a stable job, ok pay but zero job satisfaction.

Ideally i would love to work with aircrafts on some level, i dont think im the most technically minded person though..so maybe aircraft maintenance isnt the right route, but i have had a look on the net on apprenticeships.Can anyone tell me what the difference is (in qualification) in the Shannon Aerospace and SR Techics apprenticeship, when one takes 2 yrs 3 mths to complete the other taking a the standard 4 yrs?
Also roughly these days how much will Fás pay you on the off-the-job phases and how much do employers pay on on-the-job phases?

I'm getting a bit confused over the various job titles .
Is there a difference between Aircraft Mechanic & Aircraft Maintenance Technican & Aircraft Maintenance Engineer?

Also does anyone know what jobs other than aircraft maintenance women can do whereby they work directly (as possible) with aircraft? (other than cabin crew/pilot/baggage handlers)

Sorry for all the q's!

cp251

I can't answer all the questions, just the easy ones. First off, terminology. Aircraft Mechanic and Aircraft Engineer are essentially the same. In the USA mechanic is used, on this side of the pond it's Engineers. Both refer to licensed Engineers/mechanics. However Mechanic is often used here interchangeably with Technician to refer to non licensed workers. Although in fact they may actually be doing the same job. But essentially Engineers are multi-skilled and licensed, Technicians/mechanics have approvals within the organisation they work for. They may do one job all the time or may have several skills. As a rule licensed Engineers make more money.

I don't know how it works in Shannon Aerospace or SR technics. Perhaps someone else knows.

Being a woman is neither here nor there. Although it is fair to say that there are few enough women in the trade. As far as I'm aware there are women in Shannon Aerospace working on as technicians/mechanics. I think most women are put off as it's seen as a hard often dirty job with odd hours. Frankly this puts men off too. If anything being a woman might be slight advantage in getting jobs with bigger organisations as they tend to want to be seen as fair.

You say you're think you are the most technically minded. Well..........that's not good as being technical kind of goes with the territory. I'm not really technicallly minded either, that's why I became a pilot:rolleyes:
In fact you may be underestimating yourself as women tend to do:( My wife is a highly qualified,well paid, experienced and highly respected professional in her field which is extremely complex. Yet every now and then I have to reassure her that she really is as good as everyone else thinks she is.

In fact a lot of Engineers works is manual. If you have a good eye for detail as women allegedly are, then you might be very good at it. You say you're doing an avionics course. Well judge for yourself how well you're doing.

As for you last question, in fact there are possibilities to work directly with aircraft. I used to do one in fact. That's how I got started in aviation. Here's an example of one with Ryanair. Don't be put off by the job description.

http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/about.php?page=Jobs&sec=careers&ref=FREDMC10

Here's something at Cityjet:
http://www.cityjet.com/recruitment/recruitment/publications-and-document-control-supervisor.html

Check out all the Irish airlines, websites; Air Contractors, Aer Arann etc.

Check all the airline websites for jobs like that. Air Contractors, Aer Arann etc. Even Shannon Aerospace and SR Technics have people like that working for them. While you may not be working on aircraft all the time. You will be in and around them and it will be neccessary to fly in them on occasion.
There are often jobs in maintenance for example which are office based but often mean contact with aircraft and you will be working with Engineers. Maintenance coordinators, manuals etc. A lot of the time they are not advertised or the jobs only come up occasionally when someone leaves. Sometimes the only real qualifications needed are typical office skills and an interest in aviation.

Also have a look at Operations; crew rostering or despatching. You can get in there as an assistant to an Operations Officer, do a night class and get qualified.

Both Ryanair and Aer Arann advertised similar jobs recently.

And yes, many women fill those postions. Maybe your best option is to get into a non technical job in an airline, clerical or something and use that as a stepping stone to the job you really want.

Check out PPRuNe too. They have forums for Engineers and another for ground ops jobs. Lots of info there.

Good luck.

starr11

cp251 wrote: »

I can't answer all the questions, just the easy ones. First off, terminology. Aircraft Mechanic and Aircraft Engineer are essentially the same. In the USA mechanic is used, on this side of the pond it's Engineers. Both refer to licensed Engineers/mechanics. However Mechanic is often used here interchangeably with Technician to refer to non licensed workers. Although in fact they may actually be doing the same job. But essentially Engineers are multi-skilled and licensed, Technicians/mechanics have approvals within the organisation they work for. They may do one job all the time or may have several skills. As a rule licensed Engineers make more money.

I don't know how it works in Shannon Aerospace or SR technics. Perhaps someone else knows.

Being a woman is neither here nor there. Although it is fair to say that there are few enough women in the trade. As far as I'm aware there are women in Shannon Aerospace working on as technicians/mechanics. I think most women are put off as it's seen as a hard often dirty job with odd hours. Frankly this puts men off too. If anything being a woman might be slight advantage in getting jobs with bigger organisations as they tend to want to be seen as fair.

You say you're think you are the most technically minded. Well..........that's not good as being technical kind of goes with the territory. I'm not really technicallly minded either, that's why I became a pilot:rolleyes:
In fact you may be underestimating yourself as women tend to do:( My wife is a highly qualified,well paid, experienced and highly respected professional in her field which is extremely complex. Yet every now and then I have to reassure her that she really is as good as everyone else thinks she is.

In fact a lot of Engineers works is manual. If you have a good eye for detail as women allegedly are, then you might be very good at it. You say you're doing an avionics course. Well judge for yourself how well you're doing.

As for you last question, in fact there are possibilities to work directly with aircraft. I used to do one in fact. That's how I got started in aviation. Here's an example of one with Ryanair. Don't be put off by the job description.

http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/about.php?page=Jobs&sec=careers&ref=FREDMC10

Here's something at Cityjet:
http://www.cityjet.com/recruitment/recruitment/publications-and-document-control-supervisor.html

Check out all the Irish airlines, websites; Air Contractors, Aer Arann etc.

Check all the airline websites for jobs like that. Air Contractors, Aer Arann etc. Even Shannon Aerospace and SR Technics have people like that working for them. While you may not be working on aircraft all the time. You will be in and around them and it will be neccessary to fly in them on occasion.
There are often jobs in maintenance for example which are office based but often mean contact with aircraft and you will be working with Engineers. Maintenance coordinators, manuals etc. A lot of the time they are not advertised or the jobs only come up occasionally when someone leaves. Sometimes the only real qualifications needed are typical office skills and an interest in aviation.

Also have a look at Operations; crew rostering or despatching. You can get in there as an assistant to an Operations Officer, do a night class and get qualified.

Both Ryanair and Aer Arann advertised similar jobs recently.

And yes, many women fill those postions. Maybe your best option is to get into a non technical job in an airline, clerical or something and use that as a stepping stone to the job you really want.

Check out PPRuNe too. They have forums for Engineers and another for ground ops jobs. Lots of info there.

Good luck.

Phew! you really know your stuff! thank you so much for taking the time to help me i really appreciate it

The info and websites you gave me will keep me busy looking into things further..i was having a look at the Flight Despatcher role which i think looks really good..kinda need to find out about pay and that..its such a big decision..but sometimes i guess ya gotta take a chance!

D

Say you have your degree and a post-grad how would one go about get Licensed? Do company's sponsor you or do you have to go out and get licensed by yourself and then get a job?

RoundyMooney

Threads merged.

RoundyMooney

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mr.miagi

whats the diff. between frozen and unfrozen ATPL???

lots of airlines look for people with only a cpl and the nessacary type ratings to be a first officer
this is a good way of getting upto the 1500h flight time

pclancy

Frozen ATPL means you've done the theory but are just building hours towards the 1500 required for the ATPL and most airlines let you sit in the right seat as a junior first officer to do this.

Mr Google gave me this: http://www.aviationcareerguide.com/airline_pilot.asp

ImDave

mr.miagi wrote: »

whats the diff. between frozen and unfrozen ATPL???

lots of airlines look for people with only a cpl and the nessacary type ratings to be a first officer
this is a good way of getting upto the 1500h flight time

An ATPL is required to be commander of a commercial aircraft under JAA.

Sony

Hi all, I have read a lot of articles recently about the pilot college in waterford..can i ask somethig a little off the point someone might know?

Ok So I pay the 85k....how does one survive throughout this year - do you need to take out further loans to support a year of eating drinking etc (I see they put up up so no accom)

Thanks for the help

Manic Moran

In recent years, foreigners coming over to the US to learn to fly 'planes have been a little less welcome. Something to do with 9/11. Organised companies such as the one linked above may have arrangements in place, but generally speaking Joe Bloggs with a foreign passport should not be able to turn up to Albany City Airport and get General Aviation (Private license) flying lessons without the appropriate paperwork.

That said, if you are over this neck of the woods, how much you pay is going to be closely related to where you go. I'm saving some 35% by having my lessons in Kentucky and not California. ($100 an hour wet for a 172, plus $30 instruction, vs $135 + $60). Don't forget to budget a couple hundred for a headset, another for the various books and admin stuff.

You may end up better off if you can save the money in advance, and do all the lessons in one 'pulse', instead of spreading it around. Do it too infrequently, and you'll end up spending half the next lesson just re-learning what you forgot from the previous one. You're paying too much money for this!

NTM

Sony

I have found a site for the National Airline College in Australia - its costs approx €36,500 for the year long course.

What does anyone with experience think of this option? Is there much implications afterwards wanting to fly in Europe??

I am seriously thinking of enrolling in a college later this year but would prefer it to be abroad for the experience.

http://www.flyingschool.in/office.htm

Thanks for any help anyone can give!

gerire

I have been looking around recently for more information on this; According to one of the senior recruiters in EI, they over the last few years have increased their pilot staff by 20% and are still looking for more;
His 1st port of call for new recruits, is Herta in Spain; trying to locate link now
Then Oxford in England; They have taken on students from Waterford but not too many;

This place in Oz comes accross as very cheap and a definate option for me; However I'm tied down to Ireland after training so I will ask him again during the week of the implications of doing the course in Oz;

I have 2 large life options available to me at the moment; Both require a serious financial comittment and life away from home for around 1 year, I'm leaning very heavily back towards pilot having left it alone as an idea now for the last couple of years

yaeger

EI first port of call is guys already flying the bus, then other jet/T-prop types and then cadets from Oats or Jerez in spain ( Herta ? ).

Sony go with somewhere tried and tested, That place is Oz is relatively new and unproven and certainly dont think you get your license for 36K ! not a chance. As for PTC for 85 k and how do you live question ? easy add another 10k and call it 95 k sure make it 100k, and when ryanair call you add another 28k for type and then sure another few k for survival as you are shifted from base to base etc etc so say 135K ! Why get caught up on 85 K :-)

Sony

Ha , very helpful lads thanks:)

I have actually worked in spain for a couple of years but to be honest a little sick of the place....Is it much cheaper to train over there?

Am finding this a very hard decision the past few months as to whether I should take the risk - I know there are a lot in my boat but obv biggest decision I will ever make.

Is the training difficult?

Victor

Sony wrote: »

I have found a site for the National Airline College in Australia - its costs approx €36,500 for the year long course. What does anyone with experience think of this option? Is there much implications afterwards wanting to fly in Europe??

I imagine the flying bit is OK, the régime and practicalities might be very different - a section of land in Western Europe the size of Australia has 10-20 times the population (and presumably flight) density.

workaccount

Can anybody believe the claim here http://www.pilottraining.ie/ that 98% of pilots get hired inside two months after finishing the course?

I thought it was quite difficult to get jobs in the aviation industry and that there were not many jobs around? Am I completely wrong?

Steyr

yaeger wrote: »

EI first port of call is guys already flying the bus, then other jet/T-prop types and then cadets from Oats or Jerez in spain ( Herta ? ).

Thats true my mate is flying a Bus on the Medium haul with EI, he was trained at Jerez and its NOT cheap!

cp251

Jerez is essentially a CAA approved school run on British lines with British Instructors. So it's not cheap. It's a bit like Oxford in the sun. Even Oxford send students to the US for the weather. So do PTC. In fact everyone ends up hour building abroad one way or another. It makes sense.

There are other Spanish schools, some are good, some turn out people who should be arrested for impersonating pilots.

As for EI, though they deny it. They make a habit of hiring mostly pilots who've been through integrated courses. Cadet pilots that is. Experienced pilots are a different thing. So Jerez and Oxford supply quite a few. They cherrypick the highest scoring, best performing students. People who haven't even applied to them have actually been 'invited' to an interview. They are entitled to do that of course but it's frustrating when you think about it because the only criteria in becoming a student on an integrated course is to have the money. Don't tell me you have to pass an assessment to get in. That's just to eliminate the no hopers. Everybody passes. The real test is the size of your bank account.

As for flying in the USA, things have got tougher. It was all a bit laissez faire before 9/11. Not it's harder. Another reason to hate Osama Bin Laden and his thugs. But schools used to dealing with foreign students will help you with visas and the TSA.

As for 98% of graduates of a certain school finding work? I don't know but work doesn't mean right seat in an airliner. It can be any flying job and I bet terms and condition apply. Yes, workaccount it is harder than that to get a job as a pilot. But if you want it bad enough and you are good enough. You will get the job. It just takes time and effort. Sometimes a long time indeed. Some people are lucky though and fall into jobs, other make their own luck.

A lot of you younger guys and girls are all wide eyed and drawn in by the whole flying academy, glossy brochure type flying schools, with uniforms and logo'd aircraft. Seeing them as somehow like going to UCD or Trinity, thinking you will end up walking into a job after 'graduation' based on the reputation of the 'flying college'.

But you know something, at the end of the day we all end up with the same licence, just like the one in my flight bag, cheap white plastic with a tacky IAA logo on it. The only people who ever look at it are security guards at airports. It's too big to bring to nightclubs to impress the girls. The only reason I carry it at all is because it's a legal requirement and it's a bloody nuisance because it doesn't fit in most pockets.

Instead of picking an unknown option on the other side of the world or one of the big name 'Flying colleges'. Go for a school with a known reputation that fits your budget. If it's Jerez, go for it but chances are you will end up in Ryanair anyway alongside someone who learned to fly at Mom and Pop's flying school for a lot less.

A few years down the road, where you learned to fly will only be important to you for reunions to reminisce about all the massive drinking sessions you had. In Jerez a few years ago, there hung a model of a 737 made by Aer Lingus cadets made entirely from Heineken beer cans. (A pint of Heino, roysh!). That tells you something.

workaccount

cp251 wrote: »

As for 98% of graduates of a certain school finding work? I don't know but work doesn't mean right seat in an airliner. It can be any flying job and I bet terms and condition apply. Yes, workaccount it is harder than that to get a job as a pilot. But if you want it bad enough and you are good enough. You will get the job. It just takes time and effort. Sometimes a long time indeed. Some people are lucky though and fall into jobs, other make their own luck.

Do you think the same applies for helicopters aswell? I've always been one to not do something unless I can do it well and improve. If i'm not doing that I'm not happy and won't stay for long.

I know that I would have what it takes to be a "good" pilot....but could I end up doing training (helicopters - because I think they would be more interesting) and then not get a job?

If I was to do this I would have to loan nearly the full amount required. I think it would be impossible for me to get a loan that size unless the bank had some agreement with the school like that place in Waterford do.

cp251

Do you want to fly? That is the question. Or do you want to be a pilot? There is a difference. If you want to fly, you will find a way. If you want to be a pilot. You may be disappointed in what you find.

Flying helicopters because it might be more 'interesting' is not really a good motivation. There are also less employment opportunities for heli pilots. Mostly instructor work. Less stability too, unless you get something like Search and Rescue. Less money too than an airline pilot. But if you love to fly it won't matter. It's also more expensive to learn.

Many military helicopter pilots convert to fixed wing, mainly for employment opportunities. Same with some Oil Industry pilots. Fixed wing gives you greater options and opportunities. But if helicopters are your thing then that's the way to go.

I think it would be impossible for me to get a loan that size unless the bank had some agreement with the school like that place in Waterford do.

That's the sticky web, isn't it? I have to go to a bank with an agreement with the school? You don't in fact. They want to draw you in. They want you to believe that's the only way. Whether there is a school involved or not. The same criteria will apply. Can you pay it back? Is there a guarantor? Pick a flying school, get your application together, go to a bank and make your case. You can literally save tens of thousands by doing your own thing. Most pilots I know did it their way.

jmayo

workaccount wrote: »

Do you think the same applies for helicopters aswell? I've always been one to not do something unless I can do it well and improve. If i'm not doing that I'm not happy and won't stay for long.

I know that I would have what it takes to be a "good" pilot....but could I end up doing training (helicopters - because I think they would be more interesting) and then not get a job?

If I was to do this I would have to loan nearly the full amount required. I think it would be impossible for me to get a loan that size unless the bank had some agreement with the school like that place in Waterford do.

Do you mine me asking how do you know you would be a good pilot ?
I have met doctors that were bright astute people but yet they were an instructors nightmare to train.

As cp251 says the job opportunities for heli pilots are a lot less than for fixed wing, particularly in this part of the world. The number of British Army pilots that I have come across that were doing fixed wing training would point to fact that they believed job opportunities and careers were better in that area.

If you do not mind travelling you may get work somewhere like US, Africa, NZ, Canada etc but beware these places also have local people chasing these jobs and for some of the very demanding work (e.g heli logging) they are looking for very experienced pilots.

workaccount

jmayo wrote: »

Do you mine me asking how do you know you would be a good pilot ?
I have met doctors that were bright astute people but yet they were an instructors nightmare to train.

As cp251 says the job opportunities for heli pilots are a lot less than for fixed wing, particularly in this part of the world. The number of British Army pilots that I have come across that were doing fixed wing training would point to fact that they believed job opportunities and careers were better in that area.

If you do not mind travelling you may get work somewhere like US, Africa, NZ, Canada etc but beware these places also have local people chasing these jobs and for some of the very demanding work (e.g heli logging) they are looking for very experienced pilots.

From my experience someone who becomes a doctor or an accountant etc. etc. lacks much technical aptitude or a mechanical type mind.

I have always been into technical and mechanical things since I was able to walk. Opening up things to see how they work etc.

I enjoy driving my car and know that I have an aptitude for it. I know the type of skills required would be the same to fly.

TBH I work in computers and have met college graduates who had not a clue. It did not come natural to alot of the ones that do have a clue. I've always seen these guys as imitators or "not the real thing". You will find them in all walks of life.

I know I have it in me to do something like this and to learn alot of it by feeling around for myself (which is the way I've learned everything I know).

cp251

I admire your confidence workaccount. That will carry you a long way. However flying isn't simply a technical exercise. Flying is operating in three dimensions and isn't really like driving. A lot of pilots do fly by the numbers and they get away with most of the time. The problem really with flying is the variables. The crosswind, the weather, the technical problem. All of these require resolution while you continue to fly the aircraft safely. The problem is the human factor. What do you do when the fuel is low, the cloud is lowering and your aren't sure of where you are? What do you do? Flying is an art form as much as a technical exercise. There are so many variables. Modern airline flying tries to procedurise everything to remove the variables. But every now and then, it pure instinct and guts that get you through.

To be fair to you, you sound like you could cope. A couple of things you say remind me of me when I was young and super confident. But you never know until you try. Take some lessons, more than one would be pilot has run away screamng when they realised it was not quite like FS9.

yaeger

Well everyone that would like to fly no doubt believes they have what it takes, not many training saying to themselves they aint up to it.
You may believe you know whats required but chances are as a non-flyer your idea of what a potential airline may want from you and what they DO want are 2 different things.
At the end of the day if you have your head screwed on straight and sharp enough and have the determination to complete your training and sell yourself you have as good as chance as any, but decide soon as if your not sure whether you want a airline or chopper job you need to sit and think hard.
Chopper jobs in this part of the world are generally sourced with guys coming outta the military and jobs are extremely rare compared to that of fixed wing, and the training is more expensive generally.
So think about it before committing, o and while your at it take that first step out to the mater private and get yourself a class one medical, if you cant pass this you will never fly commercially so first things first.
It cost a couple hundred so get saving :-)

What you do when fuel is low ? Land or divert ! (note to self-carry more )
Cloud is lowering and unsure position ? really in a CAT3 Class C aircraft !

Cp251, excuse the poor replies but nice points shown to illustrate the job variety.

cp251

What you do when fuel is low ? Land or divert ! (note to self-carry more )
Cloud is lowering and unsure position ? really in a CAT3 Class C aircraft !

LOL That's assuming you are flying an electric bus. But no one starts off in a fully equipped airliner. There will be several hundred hours or more of flying in light aircraft. Sometimes the first job is in a tatty old single or twin often single pilot. The likes of Aer Arann fly slower aircraft in the weather onto smaller runways at less well equipped airports. Even in airliners there are days like that video of the Lufthansa Airbus where it all gets very hairy indeed and good old fashioned flying skills are needed.

I don't know quite how to put this but I think some wannabees, the Microsoft generation believe that it's just like the Flight sim. It's all very controlled. But sometimes it's not as easy as it seems. I'm just trying to get that across.

jmayo

workaccount wrote: »

From my experience someone who becomes a doctor or an accountant etc. etc. lacks much technical aptitude or a mechanical type mind.

I have always been into technical and mechanical things since I was able to walk. Opening up things to see how they work etc.

I enjoy driving my car and know that I have an aptitude for it. I know the type of skills required would be the same to fly.

TBH I work in computers and have met college graduates who had not a clue. It did not come natural to alot of the ones that do have a clue. I've always seen these guys as imitators or "not the real thing". You will find them in all walks of life.

I know I have it in me to do something like this and to learn alot of it by feeling around for myself (which is the way I've learned everything I know).

Ah the confidence of youth
I know a few doctors and accountants that would be too impressed with your opinions.
I think you fail to think of doctors such as anesthetists or surgeons.
They have to be able to quickly think on their feet if necessary and there can be a lot of pressure just like there can be in flying.
Flying is not all technical as stated by cp251.
A lot of flying can be decision making and coping with situations.
It doesn't matter if you know how to strip the engine if it fails.
What matters is how you cope with the situation and what decisions you make to get down.
Yes a lot of it is down to training and following procedures but there is also the ability to weigh up options quickly.

Sorry but unless you are a rally driver or some such, being able to drive competently doesn't mean you can fly competently. Flying is 3D not 2D and if you screw up with that extra dimension it really can be fatal.

As other posters said firstly get couple of lessons to see how you like it, secondly do first class medical and then go from there.

There is also the old adage:
"There are old pilots, there are bold pilots but there are not many old bold pilots"

MagicMarker

Question, in terms of, lets say, the class 2 medical.

What kind of things would you fail on? What is the criteria needed to pass?

Thanks.

Mr Benevolent

Just to let everyone know, there is new legislation in the pipeline for potential private pilots - the Leisure Pilot's Licence. 25 hours training instead of 45, it'll start being taught in Ireland (knowing the IAA) in 2011 or 2012. Also, the Class 2 medical won't be so stringent. Happy days!

Armin_Tamzarian

Hi-

I'm currently looking into training to be a helicopter pilot.
Training in the USA seems to be the cheapest option.
The sort of work I'd like to get into would be stuff like what Brintel do,
i.e. flying Sea Kings between remoter locations, oil rig work etc.

Is there one licence that coveralls all for helicopters or
would large helicopters such as Sea Kings be more expensive and alot
more difficult to get qualified for.

Are helicopters recognised internationally or is there a danger of say,
qualifying in America only to find out the the licence isn't recognised in the UK, Ireland.

If I qualified, how difficult do you think it would be to find employment?

Any suggestions, advice, help would be appreciated.

Please criticise as much as possible, I want to go into this with my eyes wide open.

-Cheers

mdrizzle

Armin_Tamzarian
Been looking into this for a while now as well, Have had an ambition to get my cpl(h) for a few years and found this site http://www.heli.com/
Bristow college train for the JAA licence (europe) and the FAA licence (U.S)
Hope this helps

Armin_Tamzarian

Cheers mate-

I've been checking out this one
http://whizzardhelicopters.co.uk

It works out at around £10,085 for the JAA-PPL, excluding medical and any textbooks.

Have a look and let me know what you think.

-Regards

Rapidude

If it says 10k budget 20k. Look at NZ & OZ as potential training countries. With the US$ high and the NZ$/OZ$ low it would be a no brainer. Also the standard is very high in NZ and you get weather like home. Its also more than likely one of the most amazing places you will ever fly.

Don't expect a job to come easy and you won't be disappointed... It's dismal at the moment and can't see it getting any better anytime soon. Read pprune if you would like a quick fix of depression!

pclancy

The NZ dollar is well below half a Euro now. Very cheap place to come spend Euros and some excellent quality flight schools down here with good weather and amazing scenery.

Helipro are one company that train from one of our local airfields. Go to www.google.co.nz and type in helicopter training nz, tons of links to schools.