Rovers vs GAA in court today.

KdjaCL

Hopefully this issue will end today, Thomas Davis only really want to kill off Rovers and any hope of getting that ground. Sadly their leader Davies? actually stated it was "a battle between GAA and Rovers and GAA will be the last man standing" As its a attempt to stop Rovers getting into Tallaght and pretty much sucked every kid who can kick a ball and turning them to the dark side of sports.

I have now switched allegiances and support Rovers in this case now

http://foot.ie/forums/showthread.php?t=53280 huge thread on foot.ie about it

kdjac

gustavo

Good luck to the other Rovers today!Sincerly hope they win through.

The Rooster

Still not sure that Rovers deserve exclusive use of this.

A new sporting development, being built exclusively with Government funding on publicly-owned land, handed on a plate to one club? A great incentive for everyone else to cash in on their exisitng grounds, squander the money and then go look for a free ride...

SectionF

The Rooster wrote:

Still not sure that Rovers deserve exclusive use of this.

A new sporting development, being built exclusively with Government funding on publicly-owned land, handed on a plate to one club? A great incentive for everyone else to cash in on their exisitng grounds, squander the money and then go look for a free ride...

It's quite clear from your contribution that you haven't read one jot of any of the discussions surrounding the issue. Rovers are not seeking exclusive use of it.

godtabh

If Croke Park handt off been opend up to football would this have been an issue?

I think that Rovers should be allowed to use the stadium under the orginal terms set out by South Dublin County Council so the stadium can be finished. Its a joke the way it is at the moment.

The Rooster

SectionF wrote:

It's quite clear from your contribution that you haven't read one jot of any of the discussions surrounding the issue. Rovers are not seeking exclusive use of it.

But thats effectively what they'll get by GAA being prevented to be used on it. As someone else said this week:

When in December 2005 the SDCC unanimously adopted a resolution in favour of the county manager's proposal to back to the idea of a multi-sport stadium involving the development of a larger pitch suitable for Gaelic games,
Rovers seemed happy. The GAA seemed happy.

But for some mystifying reason John O'Donoghue announced he would only fund a soccer-only stadium. Therefore the SDCC had little choice but to revert to the soccer-only scheme.

Shamrock Rovers are a professional soccer club, a commercial enterprise. They chose to sell the best ground in the country. Through extraordinary mismanagement they have lacked a ground of their own since. Despite the lustre of their name and history they have proven themselves incapable of providing facilities for their own use.

The GAA clubs in the area have been rooted in the community for generations. They have worked hard for what facilities they provide. Sometimes they have benefited from grant money and Lotto money; all the time they have worked themselves to the bone for the community.

For some reason John O'Donoghue has leapt in and promised to fork out millions of taxpayers' money to come to the rescue of this commercial organisation. This is generous, not just because of Irish soccer's long, prodigal history of squandering and blowing cash and failing to provide for drizzly days.

The Minister apparently wants the GAA, a community-based, volunteer-based cultural and sporting body, to carry the can for the long history of squandering and mismanagement which has blighted the world's greatest professional game as played in this country. Soccer, which once thrived here domestically, professionally and entertainingly, has become a grim sideshow of foreclosures and receiverships.

In Tallaght, the argument isn't against Shamrock Rovers, although John Donoghue planting Rovers there will inevitably hurt the GAA population. The point is that nobody feels Rovers have given enough to the community to merit the amount of State aid being allocated. There is an unfairness at the heart of the concept and the Minister's crass comments underline that.

The whispers are, though, that when the planning people get back this week the news will be that the stadium's proposed capacity will be whittled and the IRFU, a little surprised perhaps at the sweetheart of a deal the FAI were handed in the redevelopment master plan, will opt to cash in their chips in D4 and build elsewhere on their own steam (with, one hopes, appropriate Lotto funding to help). The Irish Glass Bottle Company in Ringsend would be the perfect site.

And so Irish professional soccer, a commercial enterprise which retails a genuinely beautiful game, but is domestically incapable of running its own business, will be homeless again. Will Minister O'Donoghue be able to find a way to blame it on the GAA? Of course he will.

grahamo

Best of luck to Rovers. In Tallaght the kids are soccer-mad and what better place for a league of Ireland team to base themselves.

SectionF

The Rooster wrote:

As someone else said this week:

That someone else being Tom Humphries, a GAA coach writing for The Irish Times. You might try reading a little more widely than that.

The Rooster

SectionF wrote:

That someone else being Tom Humphries, a GAA coach writing for The Irish Times. You might try reading a little more widely than that.

Indeed he raises a lot of points that you obviously don't want to hear or have no answer for.

It also does puzzle me as to why should Shamrock Rovers be given a stadium (almost) free for their exclusive use? Why won't every other League of Ireland club then apply for the same from their local authority? Won’t they have a case for a discrimination suit if they’re refused, given that one of their competitors in a commercial enterprise was singled out to receive capital funding from the state, to the commercial disadvantage of every other participant in the market?

CiaranC

Again, Rovers do not seek exclusive use, they are happy to have junior GAA there because it doesnt involve a fundamental redesign of the ground. Also, the GAA have been granted a site just down the road which is for their exclusive use and nobody objects to that.

This is simply an excercise by the GAA to destroy Shamrock Rovers. They dont pretend otherwise, and neither should anyone else.

therecklessone

CiaranC wrote:

Again, Rovers do not seek exclusive use, they are happy to have junior GAA there because it doesnt involve a fundamental redesign of the ground. Also, the GAA have been granted a site just down the road which is for their exclusive use and nobody objects to that.

This is simply an excercise by the GAA to destroy Shamrock Rovers. They dont pretend otherwise, and neither should anyone else.

QFT.

godtabh

The Rooster wrote:

The whispers are, though, that when the planning people get back this week the news will be that the stadium's proposed capacity will be whittled and the IRFU, a little surprised perhaps at the sweetheart of a deal the FAI were handed in the redevelopment master plan, will opt to cash in their chips in D4 and build elsewhere on their own steam (with, one hopes, appropriate Lotto funding to help). The Irish Glass Bottle Company in Ringsend would be the perfect site.

What this got to do with Rovers in Tallaght?

SectionF

The Rooster wrote:

Indeed he raises a lot of points that you obviously don't want to hear or have no answer for.

I don't propose to go through it point by point to answer each fatuous canard he raises, if that's what you want. Any informed reading of the debate so far will tell you that most of what he says is biased tosh. He attacks football for being 'commercial'? What, in heaven's name, is that about?

John_C

The Rooster wrote:

Why won't every other League of Ireland club then apply for the same from their local authority?

If they do, they can share Tallaght with Rovers!

Guy:Incognito

The Rooster wrote:

It also does puzzle me as to why should Shamrock Rovers be given a stadium (almost) free for their exclusive use? Why won't every other League of Ireland club then apply for the same from their local authority? Won’t they have a case for a discrimination suit if they’re refused, given that one of their competitors in a commercial enterprise was singled out to receive capital funding from the state, to the commercial disadvantage of every other participant in the market?

How are they being given a stadium. They are renting. Whats the problem. Given the choicce they would rather own their own ground so it's not like they are taking the easy way out. Fact of the matter is that this part of Dublin doesnt have a football team and it's in everyones (bar the gaa) best interests to have on ehere.

The GAA are just annoyed that people may use their own free will to choose somethign other than them. I'm actually surprised that Thomas Davis havent tried to have the P&t club removed from the Kiltipper road as they can see the football pitch from their grounds.

KdjaCL

Judgement reserved by the judge until easter according to rovers fan forum.



kdjac

The Rooster

CiaranC wrote:

Again, Rovers do not seek exclusive use, they are happy to have junior GAA there because it doesnt involve a fundamental redesign of the ground. Also, the GAA have been granted a site just down the road which is for their exclusive use and nobody objects to that.

This is simply an excercise by the GAA to destroy Shamrock Rovers. They dont pretend otherwise, and neither should anyone else.

What site have the GAA been given for free?

How would it destroy Shamrock Rovers by making the pitch bigger and allowing GAA to be played on it on alternate weekends?

SectionF

Judge says he hopes to have a decision by month end. Good luck Rovers.

boy_wonder

SectionF wrote:

Judge says he hopes to have a decision by month end. Good luck Rovers.

Bohs fan wishing Rovers luck??:eek:

Fair play to ya

CiaranC

How would it destroy Shamrock Rovers by making the pitch bigger and allowing GAA to be played on it on alternate weekends?

Uh, what?

Redeveloping the stadium for GAA isnt financially viable. Fact.

The GAA have no interest in the stadium, their only interest is dragging the issue out long enough to have Rovers collapse. They have openly stated this.

Then they'll take up the 20 acre site granted them by SDCC in Rathcoole and carry on protecting the people of Tallaght from vile 'foreign games' :rolleyes:

gerire

CiaranC wrote:

Then they'll take up the 20 acre site granted them by SDCC in Rathcoole and carry on protecting the people of Tallaght from vile 'foreign games' :rolleyes:

That land was bought, and the sdcc now will not grant them the permission to build access to the land... This is the reason that has been sitting dormant for touching on 3 years now

stovelid

Would any club employ a coach as fat as that?

SectionF wrote:

That someone else being Tom Humphries, a GAA coach writing for The Irish Times. You might try reading a little more widely than that.

I'm amazed that TH only alludes briefly to the fact that the GAA are afraid of being "hurt" by soccer. Opposing soccer in Tallaght is a major part of the action taken by TD.

As for the statements about GAA clubs being part of the community, so what?

I was brought up in West Tallaght and thousands of kids played for local soccer clubs. Admittedly Rovers are not originally from Tallaght but they have always drawn support from the whole of the southside including Tallaght.

One other thing about funding. I don't begrudge the GAA the lottery money for Croker. It's a class stadium but it's their stadium. It is being shared temporarily with the national team at a massive price and with little grace...

Mushy

One other thing about funding. I don't begrudge the GAA the lottery money for Croker. It's a class stadium but it's their stadium. It is being shared temporarily with the national team at a massive price and with little grace.

Lets try and not bring that up too much again. Dont forget the GAA installed 5million euros worth of flood lights, more for the benefit of the FAI/IRFU.

Anyway, dont know enough about the whole situation involving Rovers, the pitch and everything else got to do with this, but hope the decision goes well for them

therecklessone

Mushy wrote:

Lets try and not bring that up too much again. Dont forget the GAA installed 5million euros worth of flood lights, more for the benefit of the FAI/IRFU.

Helped by nearly €4m in government grants to do so.

KdjaCL

Judges decision expected at 10:30 morrow morning.

Rovers recent press release to counteract some pro GAA media articles.

Shamrock Rovers Press Release

Shamrock Rovers and the Tallaght Community Stadium

Press Release Issued : 27 Mar 2007

Shamrock Rovers is refuting recent unfounded and unjustifibale comments in the press relating to the club and the Tallaght Community Stadium.

"There has been some blatantly untrue and derogatory remarks made about the club and in relation to the Tallaght stadium," says Shamrock Rovers' chairman, Jonathan Roche.

"Either there are serious misconceptions out there about our club, or else this is part of a deliberate attempt to portray the club in a bad light at this particular time.

"Shamrock Rovers is a community-based, not-for profit club that is owned and run by its members. In that respect it's much like a GAA club, but we offer even more to the community.

"At a time when there are major concerns about childhood obesity, we have a voluntary Schoolboy section that caters for hundreds of children from the age of seven and up.

"Tie that in with our various Scholarship Schemes that cover all strands of education, and it's clear that we're making a very positive contribution to the community.

"On top of that, the club's professional section offers a career curve for young footballers, who can aspire to earning a living from football without having to leave home.

"Shamrock Rovers offers a broad and comprehensive range of opportunities in sport, education and employment to the youth of South Dublin and beyond. It is quite unique."

It was also implied that Shamrock Rovers was incapable of running its own business affairs properly - something the Hoops’ Financial Director, John Lyons is eager to disprove.

"Since the fans took over the club in 2005, Shamrock Rovers has been run on sound business principles," he explains. "We pay our wages and taxes in full and on time, and even turned a profit last year.

"As we're a not-for-profit members' club, that profit stayed within the club and has contributed to our on-going development as a community-based football club."

Shamrock Rovers also feels that there is no valid justification for making the playing surface of the Tallaght stadium big enough to facilitate senior gaelic games.

'Local GAA clubs in the Tallaght/South Dublin area are already well catered for and have excellent facilities of their own - and good luck to them," says General Manager Noel Byrne.

"Both the South Dublin County Council and the government want the stadium completed as it was intended from the outset: as a football ground. We fully support them."

Club Marketing Director Mark Lynch insists that the recent Republic of Ireland internationals at Croke Park showed how impractical it would be to make a football stadium large enough to accommodate gaelic games.

"The football pitch looked lost on such a massive surface," he says. "And while the GAA's willingness to temporarily open Croke Park is to be applauded, Tallaght is a completely separate issue.

"The structural aspect of the stadium would be fundamentally compromised in order to facilitate senior gaelic games. That is obvious from one glance at the recent Ireland-Wales international in Croke Park.

"Shamrock Rovers is pro-GAA, many of our members are also Dubs' fans and GAA club members, but we fail to see how either football or gaelic games would benefit from butchering this facility.

“Given that the stadium’s primary purpose has always been to facilitate football, it makes no sense to complete it in a way that would seriously detract from that aim.”



Appendix: Reality and Rovers

Since its takeover by its supporters in 2005, Shamrock Rovers has made a positive contribution to sport, community activity and education, while also running its financial affairs in a professional and responsible manner.

Shamrock Rovers is not 'a commercial enterprise'
Shamrock Rovers is a members-owned and run, community-based football club that operates on a not-for-profit basis.
As well as promoting sporting participation through its Schoolboy section, which caters for around 250 young players, it also encourages education through its various scholarship schemes.
Through its professional Eircom League of Ireland section, the club also creates employment for upwards of 30 people and generates income tax revenue that goes directly to the State. Shamrock Rovers is fully tax-compliant and a model employer.
Once the first team joins the rest of the club in Tallaght, Shamrock Rovers would envisage a considerable increase in its employment opportunities, making a further positive contribution to the community.


Shamrock Rovers’ Financial Commitment
As well as providing voluntary sporting and educational opportunities, Shamrock Rovers also contributes a considerable amount of its income to the national coffers. Since the club was acquired by its supporters in 2005 it has operated on sound financial principles and meets its tax requirements on a monthly basis.

The club's recent tax history is as follows:
- During 2006 €102,423.09 was paid in tax by Shamrock Rovers
- In 2005, post date of the club's examinership, the total was €175,153.06
- This year's tax total is expected to reach €193,595
- We would envisage, with more staff on our pay roll in Tallaght, a tax payment of around €1.5m over the next five years


Voluntary Work in the Community
No sport has a monopoly on volunteerism. Shamrock Rovers has over 100 volunteers contributing at all levels within the club, as well as promoting sporting activity amongst the young population of South Dublin and further afield.


Educational Opportunities
As part of its community-based ethos, Shamrock Rovers operates Scholarships covering all levels of education. In conjunction with IT Tallaght, the club offers third level education to players, and has more recently introduced a scholarship scheme that facilitates primary school students through the Junior Certificate cycle.


Best of Both Worlds
Given the club's commitment to professional football, its voluntary work in the Schoolboy football, and the club's various educational initiatives, Shamrock Rovers offers a unique and unrivalled blend of sporting and educational opportunities for the young population of South Dublin and beyond.


Dallas Cup
Through the efforts of club volunteers, a sum of €46,000 was raised to bring the Shamrock Rovers Under-19 team to the USA next month to participate in the prestigious Dallas Cup tournament. Not only will this provide players with the opportunity to compete against some of the world's greatest football clubs, it also offers them the experience of a lifetime.


Tallaght Stadium
From the beginning, the SDCC was committed to a football-sized stadium in Tallaght. When it was proposed to extend the playing surface to accommodate gaelic games it was with the proviso that this would not further delay the project.
When the Minister for Sport pointed out that the government’s financial commitment was for a football-sized stadium, this was immediately accepted by the SDCC’s elected representatives, who agreed to progress the project as it was originally intended: as a football stadium.
While the stadium may be built to its original, football-sized specification, it does not prohibit all other sports, and would easily accommodate, for example, hockey and under-age gaelic games.
As could be seen from the recent Republic of Ireland-Wales international at Croke Park, a football pitch is considerably dwarfed on a full-size GAA surface.

ENDS

kdjac

Bateman

Tomorrow morning should be interesting then. :eek:

applehunter

Don't think Rovers fans will sleep to well tonight.

Hopefully its the end of the long suffering for their loyal fans.:)

KdjaCL

Judicial review granted, Thomas Davis win 1st round and pretty much the match.


kdjac

applehunter

Well they have succeeded in delaying the project which was their aim.

Rovers fans must be so pi$$ed off.

I'm pissed off and I'm a Cork City fan.

I want to see our league with good quality stadiums designed to provide good atmosphere. A GAA pitch will destroy any hopes of making Tallaght a real top soccer ground.

super_furry

If I were to type what I really feel about the GAA right now I'd be banned. I absolutely despise them.

KdjaCL

super_furry wrote:

If I were to type what I really feel about the GAA right now I'd be banned. I absolutely despise them.

http://89.234.66.107/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=484


tbh knock yourself out.


kdjac

The Volt

Clearly the majority share the same view here, I also believe that this majority would expand to the rest of the country who have any interest in sport at all. Would a petition be of any use?

The Volt

Took this post from a user named 'khoop' on foot.ie.

"For all those undecided as to whether it actually makes PHYSICAL sense to have a full-sized GAA pitch in Tallaght Stadium - leaving out any other arguments for a moment - just watch the Ireland v Wales game. You will note the huge expanse around the edge of the soccer pitch. A space that could easily be used to build an average size housing estate.

That should end that argument. It simply doesn't make sense to have GAA and soccer LONG TERM in the same stadium. In fact it's ludicrous. The two pitch sizes aren't remotely compatible.

Croke Park is a different matter. Pitch-wise, it's a very unsatisfactory solution - but it's only a very temporary SHORT TERM solution, made more bearable by the fact that all the soccer games there should be close to sell-out.

However in Tallaght Stadium, for the sake of having the possibility of playing an occasional GAA game there, Shamrock Rovers are expected to play EVERY home game out in the middle of a vast empty expanse - miles away from the crowd. With half of the originally-planned spectator facilities left unbuilt to make room for the GAA pitch.

A farcical situation - pure and simple.

John O'Donoghue is NOT anti GAA and never has been. He simply wants to build a stadium which prioritises soccer (and rugby). A stadium built to soccer (and rugby) specifications.

What he is clearly saying to the GAA is "Listen guys..... we gave you huge financial help with Croke Park..... you got further millions upon millions in grants for the excellent stadiums and clubhouses springing up all over the country..... we are giving you money to pay your players..... you will continue to receive generous financial help in the future..... but this one is for soccer. YOU CAN'T HAVE EVERYTHING."




Just want to post this, it's the best opinion I've seen so far

super_furry

This http://farm1.static.flickr.com/209/440159367_239bc469fa_b.jpg sums it up perfectly for me.

And despite it all, we still won tonight. You'll never kill Rovers.

applehunter

Did yee have another one prepared if the decision went in yer favour.

Or would you still have used the same one:D