Six Nations XV

flsghujslkuo

Well here's mine:

15: Dempsey
I was always a Murphy fan, but Dempsey is playing out of his skin. His positional sense is brilliant; rock solid and can steal a few tries too.

14: Horgan/Lamont.
I can't decide this one. Lamont had a mare start but he had fun against us and France. Horgan stay on the wing!

13. BOD.
Nothing spectacular, but without him even for a few mins Ireland lost the Grand Slam: the French try he was off the pitch, and we lost the championship when he was off against Italy, penalty in ROG's range, IMO since there was no leader on the pitch so we ran it instead of taking it... and that was that.

12. D'Arcy
Brilliant (with BOD)

11. Williams/Hickie/Strettle
Tough again: I really like Williams he's quality, Hickie had a great finish to the 6N. Strettle... Good 6N.. Jury's out

10. ROG.
I'm so impressed with this guy ever since the kiwis blasted him after the lions: "'Kiwis know their rugby and know a lemon when they see one. O'Gara should have painted himself yellow and jumped into a gin and tonic. His kicking was duff, his tackling was duff and he didn't look like he could run a pack of girl guides"
The Guy has visited the gym allot and has drastically improved his game since then: I think he is defo number two 5/8 in the world... imagine what he could do if the forwards dominated teams like Carter and Skrela have (remember wilkinson... IMO overrated 10... great kicker don't get me wrong but will never have the time he had in 2003 when the English forwards dominated)

9. Peel/Troncon/Mignoni/Ellis
no idea. everyone but stringer.

8.Leamy
Yeah very tough call but Leamy is class. Honourable mention to Parisse though.

7. Wallace.
Rock solid throughout. Class. f**k he is fast (Irish player of the tournament)

6. Betsen.
Easterbunny played well but betsen has that like sneaky edge.

5. POC.
People say he was not performing until the England game... BS

4. Bortolami.
He personally destroyed our lineout.

3. Castrogiovanni.
Awesome;

2. Ibanez.
No one else stood up.

1. Milloud.
incroyable.

Diamondmaker

I think Hickie has to get it given he played all 5 games Williams only played 2 and Strettle also. The 2 correspponding games that hickie played with the other 2 were also his best.


11. Williams/Hickie/Strettle
Tough again: I really like Williams he's quality, Hickie had a great finish to the 6N. Strettle... Good 6N.. Jury's out

zAbbo

Do you mean Shane Williams at 11 ? He was either injured or woeful.

15. Dempsey / Poitrenaud
14. Horgan
13. O'Driscoll
12. Jauzion
11. Hickie
10. ROG
9. Troncon

8. Parisse
7. Wallace
6. Easterby
5. Alun Wyn-Jones
4. Bortolami
3. Villiers
2. Ibanez
1. Milloud

I wouldn't pick someone who played half the games, whats the point.

Diamondmaker

zabbo wrote:

Do you mean Shane Williams at 11 ? He was either injured or woeful.

15. Dempsey / Poitrenaud
14. Horgan
13. O'Driscoll
12. Jauzion
11. Hickie
10. ROG
9. Troncon

8. Parisse
7. Wallace
6. Easterby
5. Alun Wyn-Jones
4. Bortolami
3. Villiers
2. Ibanez
1. Milloud

I wouldn't pick someone who played half the games, whats the point.

A brave man leaves Darcy out!!! Id have left BOD out over Darcy if I absolutely had to pick based on who had a better campaign.

Any player ratings in the press I read over the 6N would also have had Darcy rated higher than BOD game for game.

flsghujslkuo

flsghujslkuo wrote:

Well here's mine:

6. Betsen.
Easterbunny played well but betsen has that like sneaky edge.

Eh what? Betsen was awful this 6n. He did absolutely nothing. He's a mere shadow of his former self.
Easterby has him by a long shot.

flsghujslkuo

with regard picking players who only played a couple of games, I ask this:

If Carter or McCaw played 10 mins in the championship would they be good enough for a six nations best 15?

A. YES.

enough said.

Diamondmaker

flsghujslkuo wrote:

with regard picking players who only played a couple of games, I ask this:

If Carter or McCaw played 10 mins in the championship would they be good enough for a six nations best 15?

A. YES.

enough said.

Eh NO !! the point of what you are saying is picking the best team based on the form displayed. If BOD or ROG or Carter did not play any games they cant be picked!If they played 1 game it better have been one hell of a game and the competition poor.
Otherwise Henson could be picked and JW based on way distant form, they are still techinically available by your rationale. hey JW did play one game why not pick him, ROG would rate him higher than himself even!

Whats your point?

[edit] not you diamond, I was referring to flsghujslkuo [/edit]

Diamondmaker

Deleted User wrote:

Whats your point?

[edit] not you diamond, I was referring to flsghujslkuo [/edit]

I think he means that even Keith Wood is available for selection too:D

Sandwich

flsghujslkuo wrote:

with regard picking players who only played a couple of games, I ask this:

If Carter or McCaw played 10 mins in the championship would they be good enough for a six nations best 15?

A. YES.

enough said.

A: NO they wouldnt

- no matter what they did during their 10mins.
The question is what 15 would you pick on the basis of the 25 games. You cannot pick someone on such limited evidence (or would be foolish if you did).

Of course if you're picking on what players have done in other games - yes to McCaw and Carter, but thats a different question.

flsghujslkuo

Of the players that played in the 6N's.... I think if a player is good enough they should be in a best 15.

Certain players are good enough to be in a best 15. if McCaw had one leg and the other leg hang on by the ligaments and played in a wheelchair for 10 mins he would be better than all the northern hemi options at the moment.

Slight exaggeration but, in short, I think the best players (including past accomplishments) should be included, but I accept your arguments to the contrary e.g. Christian Cullen.

Side point, I still reckon Wood would start for Ireland if he wanted too. (He’s only 35...a yr older than Ibanez)

Diamondmaker

Ill sat this and leave it but:

The "best selection" of any competition traditionally ie in the press etc etc refers to the best perfomring players over the course of the season.

Hickie played well for 5 games and (for arguments sake) Williams equally well for 2. who is the choice here? it has to be Hickie based on form over the competition to hand.

If McCaw ( for arguments sake again ) plays 10 minutes then he can NOT be included as this is not long enough to gain a selection to this format.

perhaps if you were picking a Lions/Baba type selection then yes you can pick him but not in a 6N Best selection.

I cant believ I got sucked into this argumenet, I feel like Im in the pub:D
I think Ill crack one now to add to the feeling:cool:

flsghujslkuo

Eh what? Betsen was awful this 6n. He did absolutely nothing. He's a mere shadow of his former self.
Easterby has him by a long shot."

what the hell are you talking about... have you ever played rugby: Serge Betsen was probably one of reason they won the tournament…
He constantly annoyed and frustrated the opposition.

Erin Go Brath

My XV:

15. Dempsey
14. Lamont
13. BOD
12. Darcy
11. Hickie
10. ROG
9. Troncon
8. Parisse
7. Wallace
6. Betsen
5. O Connell
4. Bortolami
3. Castrogiovanni
2. Ibanez
1. Milloud

Our backs are the best in Europe, I think most would agree. Only Lamont prevents a green clean sweep from 10-15 in my eyes.

flsghujslkuo

If you were a Northern Hemi coach and you had to pick a team based on players that played in the 6N to play against the all blacks and say, for arguements sake, Carter and McCaw had Irish parents and were willing to play for Ireland and did, but only played 5 mins against Italy: knowing what players they are, would you pick them in your team?

Ok that's enough of that....

Back to the BEST 15 players that played in the 6N

Diamondmaker

flsghujslkuo wrote:

If you were a Northern Hemi coach and you had to pick a team based on players that played in the 6N to play against the all blacks and say, for arguements sake, Carter and McCaw had Irish parents and were willing to play for Ireland and did, but only played 5 mins against Italy: knowing what players they are, would you pick them in your team?

Ok that's enough of that....

Back to the BEST 15 players that played in the 6N

Yeah:D just like the pub

RuggieBear

calm down

Sangre

flsghujslkuo wrote:

If you were a Northern Hemi coach and you had to pick a team based on players that played in the 6N to play against the all blacks and say, for arguements sake, Carter and McCaw had Irish parents and were willing to play for Ireland and did, but only played 5 mins against Italy: knowing what players they are, would you pick them in your team?

Ok that's enough of that....

Back to the BEST 15 players that played in the 6N

How do you not get this? Are you slow?

Which players played the BEST GAMES in the 6N. We aren't asking who are the best players overall. Jesus.

Anyway, I thought Betsen had a poor 6N for his standards. Definitely not the no.1 6. Would have Williams and Easterby above them. Mine first one is;

15. Poitrenaud (while Dempsey played great I think a lot of it was down to just finishing - P created more imo)
14. Lamont/Horgan
13. BOD (cant think of any other outstanding 13s)
12. Darcy
11. Hickie (with Strettle close - gave to Hickie because more games)
10. Skrela
9. Mingoini
8. Parisse
7. Wallace (with Bergomausco close)
6. Williams
5. POC
4. Bortolomi
3. Castrogiovani
2. Ibanez
1. Milloud

Linford

flsghujslkuo wrote:

Well here's mine:

14: Horgan/Lamont.
I can't decide this one. Lamont had a mare start but he had fun against us and France. Horgan stay on the wing!

12. D'Arcy
Brilliant (with BOD)

11. Williams/Hickie/Strettle
Tough again: I really like Williams he's quality, Hickie had a great finish to the 6N. Strettle... Good 6N.. Jury's out

6. Betsen.
Easterbunny played well but betsen has that like sneaky edge.

.

Interesting that you are picking Horgan on the wing when deciding against Hickie. Horgan had a very average six nations: he didn't play against Wales, was poor against France (albeit out of posistion) was good against England (as was everyone else) was dreadful against Scotland (one of his poorest games) and was good against Italy.

Hickie on the other hand played amazing in the last two games. He didn't get much ball against Wales or France, but unlike some of the others he looked very exciting when he had the ball and was very solid in all five games in defence.

I cannot see how you can even consider Shane Williams. An ok try scorer that gets turned over in posession more than any other player in world rugby, so over hyped... Of the 12 first choice wingers on the six nations teams, I would have Williams about 9th best, ahead of only Paterson, Pratichetti and the other Welsh winger.

I agree with most of your other selections but would have Easterby over Betson. Betson had a very quiet six nations and is a shadow of his former self.

flsghujslkuo

What did Hickie do against scotland (except the tackle)... In fact, what did any Irish player do against Scotland.... the worst game I've seen. dreadful.

Linford

flsghujslkuo wrote:

What did Hickie do against scotland (except the tackle)... In fact, what did any Irish player do against Scotland.... the worst game I've seen. dreadful.

Guess he got man of the match for nothing!!! In any event he did little or nothing wrong and was unlucky not to score. Horgan on the other hand was one of the reasons Ireland only scored one try against Scotland.

May I ask you why you are so keen on Shane Williams. You even created this post on 26/2/2007

flsghujslkuo wrote:

If we want the lions to actually win, then with all due respect to the other nations, the team has to have an Irish spine:

1. Horan
2. Flannery
3. Hayes/Vickery
4. DOC
5. POC
6. Best
7. Wallace
8. Leamy
9. Peel
10. O'Gara
11. Williams
12. Darcy
13. BOD
14. Horgan
15. Morgan

when he had only played the one game. What someone has done in the past (I still argue that Williams has done little or nothing) is not indicative of how good they are now. Williams has been poor for the six nations.

Amz

I didn't think Williams did much this Six Nations. He was awful on Saturday, had terrible lines of running and made some really poor decisions. For someone of his ability he wasn't on good form at all and I wouldn't have him on my bench let alone my starting XV.

Diamondmaker

Amz wrote:

I didn't think Williams did much this Six Nations. He was awful on Saturday, had terrible lines of running and made some really poor decisions. For someone of his ability he wasn't on good form at all and I wouldn't have him on my bench let alone my starting XV.

His lack of vision ( or white line fever ) cost wales many tries V eng, it was also critically singled out by Davies on the Beeb.

Also he gets turned over like a rag doll under an inquisitive dogs snout!

Diamondmaker

Amz wrote:

I didn't think Williams did much this Six Nations. He was awful on Saturday, had terrible lines of running and made some really poor decisions. For someone of his ability he wasn't on good form at all and I wouldn't have him on my bench let alone my starting XV.

His lack of vision ( or white line fever ) cost wales many tries V eng, it was also critically singled out by Davies on the Beeb.

Also he gets turned over like a rag doll under an inquisitive dogs snout!

loadabollocks

i thought ROG had a poor tournament......missed a lot of kicks for touch, looked quite vulnerable, missed a loada kicks in the italy match too. i think skrela and pez (the little i saw of him looked decent enough) had better tournaments.

who was that guy who came on for france against scotland? he looks class.

i think dempsey runs wallace close for irish player of tournament. im a leinster fan and i hate him usually but god did he have a good 6N.

AbusesToilets

I'd agree with the view that ROG had a poor enough tournament with his out of hand kicking.Admittedly against England and France he was in Croker with it's somewhat unusual dimensions but over the course of the tournament his tactical kicking lacked it's usual precision.An area he needs to tighten down before the WC.That said i thought he has become a much more dangerous attacking player and his distribution was excellent.Some of the passes in the England were amasing,rifling the ball flat at top pace.Great to see.

davyjose

Diamondmaker wrote:

A brave man leaves Darcy out!!! Id have left BOD out over Darcy if I absolutely had to pick based on who had a better campaign.

Any player ratings in the press I read over the 6N would also have had Darcy rated higher than BOD game for game.

D'Arcy has got to be player of the Tournament. He was immense in everything he did.

Erin Go Brath

davyjose wrote:

D'Arcy has got to be player of the Tournament. He was immense in everything he did.

I agree about D'Arcy being the player of the tournament. They way he manages to break the gain line nearly every single time he gets the ball is amazing. Popey said it one day aswell, wondering how such a relatively small fellow can break through tackles with monotonous regularity. He defies all logic really.

Sangre

loadabollocks wrote:

who was that guy who came on for france against scotland? he looks class.

Beauxois. A promising 21 year old.

flsghujslkuo

D'Arcy player of the tournament are you f**kin kidding me:

he is a great player but as he showed when O driscoll wasn't playing he looked ordiary... don't get me wrong together they are the best but I think Ireland's midfield could survive without D'arcy and wouldn't with out BOD. His influence on the Irish team is immense... is BOD player of the tournament. No.

That honour without doubt has to go to *Drum roll* Wallace. David Wallace was once outstanding on the open side in the back row for every game. The man is class. I know certain parts of Ireland don't appriciate good forward play and prefer back play but open your eyes people HE IS CLASS. I'm going to say he's the no. 2 wing forward in the world.

RuggieBear

D'Arcy was player of the tournament imo.

athtrasna

I think David Wallace is one of the most under-rated rugby players in Ireland. Okay the back row is particularly competitive but to me he'd be the second forward I'd list on any team sheet after POC.

My XV

15. Poitrenaud - I thought Dempsey was inconsistent in defence throughout the tournament plus was responsible for France catching us with quick throws rather than lineouts in the opening match

14. Lamont - for sheer flare and magic. And for looking so totally different from his brother that he proved the officials in the France match need to see an Optician

13. BOD

12. Darcy

11. Strettle - the blondes were on fire this season

10. ROG - leading points scorer, plus a few tries, and some great support play

9. Mignoni - he just got everywhere

8. Leamy

7. Wallace

6. Easterby

5. POC

4. Bortolami

3. Marconnet, would love to say Hayes but too many scrum problems

2. Ibanez (or for a super sub Flannery)

1. Milloud

Linford

athtrasna wrote:

My XV

15. Poitrenaud - I thought Dempsey was inconsistent in defence throughout the tournament plus was responsible for France catching us with quick throws rather than lineouts in the opening match

14. Lamont - for sheer flare and magic. And for looking so totally different from his brother that he proved the officials in the France match need to see an Optician

13. BOD

12. Darcy

11. Strettle - the blondes were on fire this season

Please enlighten me as to how one of our most consistent defenders EVER, was inconsistent in defence this six nations. How were France's quick lineouts the fault of Dempsey? He kicked the ball too far?

You pick Strettle and Lamont over Hickie!!!

Any chance you are anti-Leinster?

athtrasna

Nothing to do with Leinster. Hickie was good this season but I don't think either he nor Horgan stood out whereas Lamont and Strettle were exciting in attack. Hickie is a good defender but the days of a 100m dash down the touchline with no chance of being stopped are gone for him.

Dempsey just doesn't do it for me. If he was a Munster player I'd say the same thing. Not all the French quickie throws were from a Dempsey kick but he didn't marshal the ball. I also thought there were occasions where he should have called the mark rather than invite tacklers on himself. I'd rather have Murphy on my team than Dempsey.

Diamondmaker

athtrasna wrote:

Nothing to do with Leinster. Hickie was good this season but I don't think either he nor Horgan stood out whereas Lamont and Strettle were exciting in attack. Hickie is a good defender but the days of a 100m dash down the touchline with no chance of being stopped are gone for him.

Dempsey just doesn't do it for me. If he was a Munster player I'd say the same thing. Not all the French quickie throws were from a Dempsey kick but he didn't marshal the ball. I also thought there were occasions where he should have called the mark rather than invite tacklers on himself. I'd rather have Murphy on my team than Dempsey.

I am a leinster fan but it is impossible for 2 game Strettle to oust Hickie from the 11 sgirt in this topic. Hickie played 3/4 great games and 1/2 good games.
Italy he was on fire burning guys half his age all season too!

Hickie is looking in the same amazing form he did going into last WC, just hope he does not suffer an injury this time mid touro!
He will have a point to provre this WC;)

Linford

athtrasna wrote:

Nothing to do with Leinster. Hickie was good this season but I don't think either he nor Horgan stood out whereas Lamont and Strettle were exciting in attack. Hickie is a good defender but the days of a 100m dash down the touchline with no chance of being stopped are gone for him..

Are you taking the P!ss? Hickie wasn't exciting in attack!!!!

athtrasna wrote:

Dempsey just doesn't do it for me. If he was a Munster player I'd say the same thing. Not all the French quickie throws were from a Dempsey kick but he didn't marshal the ball. I also thought there were occasions where he should have called the mark rather than invite tacklers on himself. I'd rather have Murphy on my team than Dempsey.

I admit I am a big Dempsey fan and have always favoured him over Murphy, but could see some points the Murphy brigade have made in the past, but OMFG after this season, and argueably last season too, I thought this debate was over and done with.

How in God's name could you even consider having Murphy on your team let alone at fullback????

You bring up the French game as evidence of Demspey playing badly, how about Murphy in that game? I don't recall Dempsey ever pussying out of a tackle.

Furthermore, Dempsey rarely gets turned over when tackled, unlike Murphy (remember the matches against NZ in the summer?). Do you remember Paris last year? (not sure anyone has ever played as badly for Ireland as Murphy did that day)

I will admit one thing about Murphy, he has flashes (and only flashes) of brilliance in attack, but that is worthless when you concede two tries in the process. He has played well for Leicester, but in my opinion, he has NEVER performed well for Ireland against decent oposition.

It is an added advantage if a fullback is a brilliant attacking player, but catching the ball, the ability to kick and the ability to defend are even more important. Dempsey has all those traits and with three tries in this years six nations he links up pretty well with the rest of backline too...

athtrasna

FFS - I'm not the only one not to include Hickie or Dempsey in my XV. Chill people, gave you my team, my reasons.

RuggieBear

lets be nice, people.

Linford

athtrasna wrote:

FFS - I'm not the only one not to include Hickie or Dempsey in my XV. Chill people, gave you my team, my reasons.

Your selections... fair enough..... I am just questioning your reasoning.

athtrasna

Fair enough. How about I thought there were better players than Dempsey and Hickie so I put those players in my XV instead!

RuggieBear

athtrasna wrote:

Fair enough. How about I thought there were better players than Dempsey and Hickie so I put those players in my XV instead!

Well then we would all know you were completely mad!!!!:p

athtrasna

Fairly accurate But in a good way!!

davyjose

athtrasna wrote:

11. Strettle - the blondes were on fire this season

I can't believe you have Strettle in ahead of Hickie - someone's been watching too much sky News.

you said that you thought there were better players than Hickie. That is very questionalbe IMO, but what IS certain is that Strettle wasn't one of them. A good performance against France and a singular Try against Ireland .... that's it. Against one of the players of the tournament. If you think that Hickie supplied nothing more than a 100m dash to the line, you really must have been fairly well-oiled for most of the games.

athtrasna

FFS - why is everyone so excited because I chose someone other than Hickie on the wing. Have a look at page 1, he didn't make all the other XVs.

FYI - I never watch Sky news, indeed I've seen next to no tv news coverage of the 6 nations.

As for being well oiled - grow up. Hickie did not impress me as much as Strettle, hence I wouldn't put him in my team. Maybe it's because I'm used to Hickie and the new guy on the block caught my eye as exciting..who knows. Drink has nothing to do with it.

davyjose

I just mean that you couldn't have possibly seen his performances in detail, if you believe that all he did was tried to dash up the touchline.

athtrasna

I meant that that was Hickie's trademark, for years he's been odds on to score if he got the ball in space.

I do think Hickie is a good player, like I said, maybe I'm just used to it and expect that of him. I just think Strettle is a more exciting prospect.