Speeding: Your Views!!

Kimbot · 21-03-2007 3:26pm

Tauren wrote:

i know you can go under it, and that is what i do as i do not feel i could go even close to the limit on some of those roads, but my point is that the speed limit set for that road is not appropriate. If you accept that, and i do not know that you will, then why is it such a leap to accept that not all other limits appropriate either(a lot a appropriate, but not all), and then accept people's (mine) annoyance at this?

I do accept that, but that is not the point of the thread!! The thread is do you agree with speeding??
I understand where you are coming from and I do feel some areas are too low etc but I have made my case with the council etc already unlike people that only complain when they get caught doing 50% more speed than the actual limit on the roads!!

Kimbot · 21-03-2007 3:29pm

ronoc wrote:

Again you seem unable to see anything apart from the speeding in my post.

I'll make it nice and simple.
An empty motorway, not a soul for miles, doing 85mph. Its not something that should be done with traffic on the road but you seem happy to make that assumption.
I'm not even suggesting it should be done with anyone else around anywhere.

No, I see it but the key here is the following......
You are only thinking about what is on the road already not what can appear on front of you on the road at any second!!
Speeding is speeding at the end of the day!!

21-03-2007 3:31pm

jonny24ie wrote:

No, I see it but the key here is the following......
You are only thinking about what is on the road already not what can appear on front of you on the road at any second!!
Speeding is speeding at the end of the day!!

Yes because cars magicly appear on a motorway where you can see for miles up ahead.

I.S.T. · 21-03-2007 3:33pm

OldmanMondeo wrote:

Tauren and Irishspeedtraps, lewt me ask you a straigh question, is it ok to drive at 60kph in a 50kph speed limit area? Yes or No.

If the speed limit is 50kmph then it is wrong to drive above that speed. We do however have the right to question why the speed limit is 50kmph and if it is an appropiate limit for that particular area.

Kimbot · 21-03-2007 3:36pm

ronoc wrote:

Yes because cars magicly appear on a motorway where you can see for miles up ahead.

There are slip roads that cars can appear form at any moment!! :rolleyes:
Or how about another scenario... a car speeding on the opposite side looses control and flys to the opposite side of the road causing an accident??
Its all the same, as a driver you have to be cautious and aware of everything around you!!

I.S.T. · 21-03-2007 3:37pm

Wicknight wrote:

In reality you have no idea why the speed limit was set. You are just assuming that its the guards trying to make money. This seems to be a quite common scape goat,

If you are honest with yourself you will admit that quite a large amount of the speed traps are set up to make money. They are set up on the safest roads (with the highest volumes of traffic) in the country. If it is not about money then let them waive the fine and let people take the points instead. Or ringfence all money collected from speeding fines directly into driver education and road safety projects.

Kimbot · 21-03-2007 3:37pm

IrishSpeedTraps wrote:

If the speed limit is 50kmph then it is wrong to drive above that speed. We do however have the right to question why the speed limit is 50kmph and if it is an appropiate limit for that particular area.

Yes and there are avenues to complain about the speed limits on roads if you think they are unsutable!! It doesn't mean you just decide to drive over the limit because it doesn't suit you if you get what I mean??

Alot of people will winge about it but when it comes time to do anything what to those people do??? They do nothing in the hope that others will raise the issue and thats whats wrong in this case!!

Zombrex · 21-03-2007 3:40pm

is_that_so wrote:

I think part of it also is where speed limits are applied. That in itself is baffling sometimes. I am happy enough with most of the speed limits but I personally find the 60 kph way too slow especially where it is applied on large urban roads(without traffic lights).

But that was kinda my point. "Way too slow" for what? What do you need to do that it is vital to drive faster than that in an urban area?

mmenarry · 21-03-2007 3:41pm

jonny24ie wrote:

No, I see it but the key here is the following......
You are only thinking about what is on the road already not what can appear on front of you on the road at any second!!
Speeding is speeding at the end of the day!!

I think you're missing an important point - there are as many equally & more dangerous situations where at or below the posted speed limit.

For example, I regularly drive on rural (80kph) roads. To do so above 60kph would be downright dangerous at times, and even suicidal at others (come round a bend and find a tractor plodding along at 10kph, with a trail of lovely slippery mud in its wake, for example).

The issue around speeding, to a lot (note, I don't say "most") of regular "speeders" is that speed cameras are indiscriminatory - they do not take into account anything but speed. In other words, much more dangerous driving (think doing 100kph on the M50 in fog or frost) goes unpunished.

Cameras will always ire people who have a genuine interest in reducing road deaths. A camera will not change people's actual road manners in any way as effectively as a traffic corps vehicle will.

Out of the countless muppets that have nearly driven me off the road, I'd quite confidently that at least 90% of them were at or below the posted speed limit.

M.

OldmanMondeo · 21-03-2007 3:42pm

I take your answer as a yes then. Now you know not to speed.

Judging from you user name and website, you have a problem with An Garda enforcing the law. The speed limits are set, rightly or wrongly, and we should obey them. May I ask the point of the web site you advertise? Speeders know where the camera and check points usually are, others tend not to speed. To me it looks like the site is promoting speeding.

this is what happens when your typing isd slow, that as for Irishspeedtraps...

Zombrex · 21-03-2007 3:43pm

ronoc wrote:

An empty motorway, not a soul for miles, doing 85mph.

*Groan* You don't know it is or is not an empty motorway until you crash into something :rolleyes:

21-03-2007 3:47pm

jonny24ie wrote:

There are slip roads that cars can appear form at any moment!! :rolleyes:
Or how about another scenario... a car speeding on the opposite side looses control and flys to the opposite side of the road causing an accident??
Its all the same, as a driver you have to be cautious and aware of everything around you!!

We could debate what ifs till the cows come home. And all of them could equally apply to doing the speed limit.

Maybe we should ask the Germans how safe their derestricted motorways are?
You mightn't like the answer.

Kimbot · 21-03-2007 3:49pm

ronoc wrote:

We could debate what ifs till the cows come home. And all of them cou;ld equally apply to doing the speed limit.

Maybe we should ask the Germans how safe their derestricted motorways are?
You mightn't like the answer.

Yes but you know when you get onto them that there is no limit!!!
Irish roads all have limits on them yet people refuse to adhere to them!!

Mitch Connor · 21-03-2007 3:52pm

OldmanMondeo wrote:

Tauren and Irishspeedtraps, lewt me ask you a straigh question, is it ok to drive at 60kph in a 50kph speed limit area? Yes or No.

Sorry, didn't see the question til IST replied to it.

I can not give you a yes or no answer.

Personally, I do my best to not speed (on occasion i do creep over the limit, but not intentionally so) so in a 50kph zone i would not do 60kph.

However, there are roads that would have, for instance, a 60kmh zone where i honestly can not see a reason for it. While i would not go over the limit here, if someone wishes to go past me in the over-taking lane at a higher speed, i would not be annoyed or angry with them, or hoping they get caught for it. Granted, I would exclude excessive speeding from that, as I do not condone it, but obviously excessive speed would be subjective and dependent on the situation.

Zombrex · 21-03-2007 3:52pm

IrishSpeedTraps wrote:

If you are honest with yourself you will admit that quite a large amount of the speed traps are set up to make money.

LOL .. if I'm "honest" with myself ... sigh

If you can explain the economics of how the guards could possible make money out of speed traps I will listen to your point.

IrishSpeedTraps wrote:

They are set up on the safest roads (with the highest volumes of traffic) in the country.

What is the point of setting them up on empty roads?

I think people fundamentally miss the point of speed traps. You seem to be saying that the guards are wasting time places speed traps in areas where it should be ok to speed. Do you see the nonsense of that argument.

A speed trap doesn't stop an accident. The point is to get people out of the habit of speeding under the idea that they can and will get caught ANYWHERE.

If someone knew that all speed cameras were only in certain "dangerous" areas you would speed all you like in areas you consider "safe" (of course just because a driver thinks it is safe to speed doesn't mean it is)

Placing speed cameras in places where motorists don't anticipate them means that you catch the people who are speeding. Which is the ultimate purpose of the system, to deter everyone from speeding anywhere.

Also if they were being set up where people don't speed then they would never catch anyone and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I.S.T. · 21-03-2007 3:53pm

OldmanMondeo wrote:

I take your answer as a yes then. Now you know not to speed.

I don't usually speed.

OldmanMondeo wrote:

Judging from you user name and website, you have a problem with An Garda enforcing the law.

I have a problem with laws which were set up to improve road safety being used for other purposes other than road safety, i.e. revenue generation. I don't believe the Government are serious about road saftey.

OldmanMondeo wrote:

The speed limits are set, rightly or wrongly, and we should obey them. May I ask the point of the web site you advertise?

In the UK it is comman practice for the police to advertise the locations of speed traps. Fixed speed cameras are painted in bright colours. If drivers know where the speed traps are then they will slow down, which is supposed to be the point of placing the speed trap in the first place. That is what the web site is doing.

OldmanMondeo wrote:

this is what happens when your typing isd slow, that as for Irishspeedtraps...

What are you talking about?

Stark · 21-03-2007 3:55pm

jonny24ie wrote:

You mean this post???

Cop on and think about it!! You are cruising down a DC @ 85MPH and your phone rings/you want to change the radio station. You look ahead and the road is clear!! You divert your attention away from the road and a car merges on front of you as your not looking you don't know it has!! By the time you realise it you have crashed straight into the back of them and caused an accident!! Simple.... you attitude is wrong like the majority of drivers in this country that "own the roads" and do as they wish because they will never get caught or never have been caught!!

That can happen at 100-120 km/hr as well, which is why I try to keep my phone on silent or switched off when I'm driving. If I forget to and it rings, I ignore it. I also have a fair idea of how to change stations on my radio without taking my eyes off the road. If I have trouble changing the station without looking away from the road, I wait until I'm stopped at lights before changing it.

Edit: I'm not saying this to justify doing 85mph, I'm just saying it to emphasise that it's not okay to be taking phone calls or staring down at your radio while you fiddle around for Today FM at any speed.

wicknight wrote:

*Groan* You don't know it is or is not an empty motorway until you crash into something

I assume the guy has eyes. Not knowing something is there until they bump into it is something blind people do.

Just for the record, I'm all for people keeping to a safe speed at all times when driving and for the gardaí to enforce that. I just don't think if a person breaking the posted speed limit once in a while automatically makes them a dangerous driver.

21-03-2007 3:57pm

jonny24ie wrote:

Yes but you know when you get onto them that there is no limit!!!
Irish roads all have limits on them yet people refuse to adhere to them!!

I'm not surprised when they look across to water to germany where road deaths are much lower per 100,000 people and they have no speed limits on 3/4 of their motorway network!

You forget that motorways here are built to a european standard are designed for speeds of 120kph +, and are statisticly the saftest type of road to drive on!

Mitch Connor · 21-03-2007 3:59pm

Wicknight wrote:

LOL .. if I'm "honest" with myself ... sigh

If you can explain the economics of how the guards could possible make money out of speed traps I will listen to your point.

Guards are getting paid regardless of what they are doing, right?

Do they cost more money patroling bray then sitting on the n11? No, they don't. So any money 'made' from spped traps is more then they would 'make' doing other duties.

So, it is rather simple to see how money can be made from Speed traps - they cost little/nothing to run.

What is the point of setting them up on empty roads?

I think people fundamentally miss the point of speed traps. You seem to be saying that the guards are wasting time places speed traps in areas where it should be ok to speed. Do you see the nonsense of that argument.

A speed trap doesn't stop an accident. The point is to get people out of the habit of speeding under the idea that they can and will get caught ANYWHERE.

If someone knew that all speed cameras were only in certain "dangerous" areas you would speed all you like in areas you consider "safe" (of course just because a driver thinks it is safe to speed doesn't mean it is)

Placing speed cameras in places where motorists don't anticipate them means that you catch the people who are speeding. Which is the ultimate purpose of the system, to deter everyone from speeding anywhere.

Also if they were being set up where people don't speed then they would never catch anyone and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Or, if they placed a load of speed camera's in areas where speeding is more likely to cause an accident, maybe the people would slow down in these areas so as not to get caught speeding - thus making the road safer.

I can see your point, but i think A LOT of visible cameras on the roads that are actually dangerous would be a more effective route to go. You'd be catching the people actually speeding on these roads, not the people on the motorway that may never go on a road any more dangerous.

gyppo · 21-03-2007 3:59pm

I feel an important point has been missed here.

Those people who habitually speed on motorways, primary routes, etc., are quite likely to break the speed limit on other roads too. This is the rationale behind garda speedchecks.

Some posters suggest more speed checks on rural roads, preferably at night, when most fatalities occur. Think about it for a minute from a guards viewpoint - would you feel safe trying to stop a speeding car on a back road in the middle of the night? Perhaps this might even contribute to an accident.

The amount of revenue collected from speeding offences is far outweighed by the €2.4M cost incurred by the state for each road fatality occurance. I'll try and find a reference to this figure - its out there somewhere.

Speed limits are the maximum permissible limits to be applied under optimum road conditions. Not a guideline figure. Full stop. End of.

Like the OP, it pisses me off that road users take an a la carte interpretation of speed limits, and then whinge when they are caught. If you dont want to get points and a fine, don't speed - its that simple.

DonJose · 21-03-2007 4:01pm

IrishSpeedTraps wrote:

If drivers know where the speed traps are then they will slow down, which is supposed to be the point of placing the speed trap in the first place. That is what the web site is doing.

Actually the sign with the speed limit is supposed to keep the driver from speeding over that limit. Speed cameras are there to catch the idiots who are speeding above this limit. You website is assisting speeders on the other roads where there are no cameras. I wonder if the domain www.irishdrinkdrivingtraps.com is available, you could always expand...

Kimbot · 21-03-2007 4:01pm

gyppo wrote:

I feel an important point has been missed here.

Those people who habitually speed on motorways, primary routes, etc., are quite likely to break the speed limit on other roads too. This is the rationale behind garda speedchecks.

Some posters suggest more speed checks on rural roads, preferably at night, when most fatalities occur. Think about it for a minute from a guards viewpoint - would you feel safe trying to stop a speeding car on a back road in the middle of the night? Perhaps this might even contribute to an accident.

The amount of revenue collected from speeding offences is far outweighed by the €2.4M cost incurred by the state for each road fatality occurance. I'll try and find a reference to this figure - its out there somewhere.

Speed limits are the maximum permissible limits to be applied under optimum road conditions. Not a guideline figure. Full stop. End of.

Like the OP, it pisses me off that road users take an a la carte interpretation of speed limits, and then whinge when they are caught. If you dont want to get points and a fine, don't speed - its that simple.

Exactly!! THe gardai know the main routes is where they will get their point across hence why you see them there and not on back roads!!

I.S.T. · 21-03-2007 4:02pm

Wicknight wrote:

LOL .. if I'm "honest" with myself ... sigh

If you can explain the economics of how the guards could possible make money out of speed traps I will listen to your point.

It doesn't take a genius to work it out. Set up a hidden speed camera on the side of the N4, €80 per car caught speeding.

Wicknight wrote:

What is the point of setting them up on empty roads?

Set them up on dangeous roads is what I'm saying!!

Wicknight wrote:

I think people fundamentally miss the point of speed traps. You seem to be saying that the guards are wasting time places speed traps in areas where it should be ok to speed. Do you see the nonsense of that argument.

A speed trap doesn't stop an accident. The point is to get people out of the habit of speeding under the idea that they can and will get caught ANYWHERE.

If someone knew that all speed cameras were only in certain "dangerous" areas you would speed all you like in areas you consider "safe" (of course just because a driver thinks it is safe to speed doesn't mean it is)

Placing speed cameras in places where motorists don't anticipate them means that you catch the people who are speeding. Which is the ultimate purpose of the system, to deter everyone from speeding anywhere.

Also if they were being set up where people don't speed then they would never catch anyone and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

That's your opinion which you are entitled to. I don't agree with it.

OldmanMondeo · 21-03-2007 4:03pm

Tauren wrote:

Sorry, didn't see the question til IST replied to it.

I can not give you a yes or no answer.

Personally, I do my best to not speed (on occasion i do creep over the limit, but not intentionally so) so in a 50kph zone i would not do 60kph.

However, there are roads that would have, for instance, a 60kmh zone where i honestly can not see a reason for it. While i would not go over the limit here, if someone wishes to go past me in the over-taking lane at a higher speed, i would not be annoyed or angry with them, or hoping they get caught for it. Granted, I would exclude excessive speeding from that, as I do not condone it, but obviously excessive speed would be subjective and dependent on the situation.

You sound like every other driver in the country, we tend not to speed, but sometimes creep over the limit, but pull back in line quickley.

21-03-2007 4:04pm

gyppo wrote:

I feel an important point has been missed here.

Those people who habitually speed on motorways, primary routes, etc., are quite likely to break the speed limit on other roads too. This is the rationale behind garda speedchecks.

I don't accept that at all. This is the kind of scatter gun approach to road saftey that is sending out the wrong message to motorists.

Zombrex · 21-03-2007 4:04pm

ronoc wrote:

Maybe we should ask the Germans how safe their derestricted motorways are?
You mightn't like the answer.

Not very safe is the answer. Deaths on motorways in Germany is far higher than the EU average, despite the fact that the Germans in general are far safer drivers than the average European. It is hard to link this to the speed limit alone, but equally I've no idea where you got the idea that the unrestricted speed limit made German motorways any safer.

OldmanMondeo · 21-03-2007 4:06pm

IrishSpeedTraps wrote:

IWhat are you talking about?

I forgot to quote your answer and ended up several posts later.

gyppo · 21-03-2007 4:07pm

ronoc wrote:

I don't accept that at all. This is the kind of scatter gun approach to road saftey that is sending out the wrong message to motorists.

So you are saying that speeders discriminate?

21-03-2007 4:11pm

Wicknight wrote:

Not very safe is the answer. Deaths on motorways in Germany is far higher than the EU average, despite the fact that the Germans in general are far safer drivers than the average European. It is hard to link this to the speed limit alone, but equally I've no idea where you got the idea that the unrestricted speed limit made German motorways any safer.

You might want to give us a source for that because it goes against pretty much any article I have ever read on the subject!

Zombrex · 21-03-2007 4:12pm

IrishSpeedTraps wrote:

It doesn't take a genius to work it out. Set up a hidden speed camera on the side of the N4, €80 per car caught speeding.

IF someone actually is caught speeding. What is the cost of the Guards salaries, the cost of the car and the camera equipment, the cost of the administration of the work etc etc.

IrishSpeedTraps wrote:

Set them up on dangeous roads is what I'm saying!!

There is no such thing as a dangerous road. A road is only dangerous if you have a dangerous driver on it. The speed cameras are not set up for the roads. They are set up for the drivers on the roads.

Dangerous drivers are drivers who do not obey the speed limit. The point of all this is to deter dangerous drivers from breaking the speed limit at any time at any place. You do this by catching them when they do break the speed limit and punishing them.

IrishSpeedTraps wrote:

That's your opinion which you are entitled to. I don't agree with it.

Opinion has got very little to do with it. This isn't a do you like chocolate better than strawberry question.

Speeding: Your Views!!

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