Temple Street Hospital

jayok

Hello All,

Long story short but I had to take the little lad into Temple Street "National Children's Hospital" today and I have so say, what a complete dump! It was smelly, dirty and the A&E area was tiny. People we all sitting on top of each other. I couldn't believe it. I've been in other A&E's before and I was shocked to see how bad this place was. It is just me?

Also, I leave in the Dublin area, but do I have to go to Temple St for the kids? Could I go to say Beaumont and get the treatment there. I would normally go to the GP but this issue was escalated beyond the GP - to the "National Children's Hospital"! FFS... I am still shocked.

Anyone here have an opinion or alternatives to this? I have no problem with public care generally but I DO have a problem with a dirty hospital.

Nevyn

Introduction
The Emergency Department of the Children's University Hospital, Temple Street has an annual patient attendance of 50,OOO cases per year. These patients are living in the areas of Dublin North City and North County and South County Meath (Ashbourne/Rathoath area)

IF you are with in those areas then that is the emergncy dept you are ment to take your child too.

There is one severing the southside at tallagh hospital.

You can't take your child to any of the other hospitals they don't do pedeatric
and are not insured to look at your child never mind threat them.

The buildings at Temple st are very old and the waiting room has been a nightmare from when I was there as a child.

Mitch Connor

Temple Street isn't helped by the fact many of the locals use A+E as a GPs office, bringing their kids in with sniffles and coughs, which obviously increases the numbers using it rather needlessly.

jayok

IF you are with in those areas then that is the emergncy dept you are ment to take your child too.

Ok - Beaumont is in my catchment area, as well at the Mather. Could I elect to go to either of these?

Raytown Rocks

jayok wrote:

IF you are with in those areas then that is the emergncy dept you are ment to take your child too.

Ok - Beaumont is in my catchment area, as well at the Mather. Could I elect to go to either of these?

Beaumont and the mater do not deal with paediatrics (sp).
You need to bring your child to 1 of the 3 childrens hospitals.
Either
Temple street
Tallaght
Crumlin.

These are the 3 Dublin childrens hospitals.

Personally I have used Temple street on a few occasions.
Its always been clean when I was there with my kids ( middle of the night), and there was constsntly cleaning staff around.
and the staff have always been fantastic ( I know that was never questioned by you).

Nevyn

jayok wrote:

IF you are with in those areas then that is the emergncy dept you are ment to take your child too.

Ok - Beaumont is in my catchment area, as well at the Mather. Could I elect to go to either of these?

no Jayok that was in reference to the areas list by Temple st that they are responsible for; that is children living in living in the areas of Dublin North City and North County and South County Meath (Ashbourne/Rathoath area).

You can NOT take your child to a regular hospital for treatment you will be turned away and told to go to the pedatric hospital for the area you live in.

Trinity

I have say i have never found it to be dirty, packed yes but not dirty!

Luckily its been 2 years since i needed to attend there though.

Perhaps you got them on a bad or particularly busy night? Maybe you could call the adminstration and voice your concerns, they may be able to offer an explanation because imo when it comes to looking after the children, i really cannot knock them.

jayok

Thanks for the feedback so far. I am just concerned about clean the place was. I am actually concerned about being "forced" to go there for the little lad. To be fair, it was only A&E I was in, not any of the out-patient stuff, so maybe it was just A&E.

I had no problem with the staff or treatment there, we were seen with the triage nurse within 45 mins and the doctors an hour later. All were professional and straight to the point. Perfect from this angle - it was just the state of the place!! I can't describe the smell or general grottyness of the place.... uggh.

Whatever a hospital needs to be, it need to be clean.

Trinity

jayok wrote:

Whatever a hospital needs to be, it need to be clean.

Agreed. Its really old in parts but actual 'dirt' is not acceptable in a hospital.

I again suggest you make a complaint to the administration part of the hospital - not to cause trouble but just to make the powers that be aware. I imagine they want a sanitary hospital themselves.

man1

chef wrote:

Personally I have used Temple street on a few occasions.
Its always been clean when I was there with my kids ( middle of the night), and there was constsntly cleaning staff around.

If you have ever seen hospitals on the continent (France and Holland in particular) you would then be shocked at the standard at Irish hospitals. And I mean SHOCKED!!!!!


A lot of people think they are not too bad now but they are comparing them to the hospitals in Ireland in the 70's and 80's. They are a complete disgrace and the sooner I get out of this country the better.

My wife is due in 2 weeks with our first child and the reason we are seriously considering leaving Ireland is because of this. (oh and the schools where you cant get a place for your kids, the creches, costs of living etc).

I really am dreading ever having to bring my kid to the hospital for anything (hope I never have to).

Did you hear about the father who had to drive his kid from drogheda hospital last week to crumlin hospital. Terrible!!!

A bit off topic aswell but the rotunda maternity hospital isnt great either IMO.
The first impression you get in the reception area is like it is a dirty run down third world 1960's hospital, people waiting around, no room anywhere, people all smoking at the door, filty floors, rude receptionists. And the mens toilet in reception!!!!! I always go to the pub across the road after the first time I was there, it is cramped and smelly and filty!!!

Saying that the staff are great there and it is not so bad once you go further than reception but still not the standard it should be!

man1

jayok wrote:

I had no problem with the staff or treatment there, we were seen with the triage nurse within 45 mins and the doctors an hour later. All were professional and straight to the point.

45 minutes is still not acceptable in my eyes and another hour for the doctor (so 1 hour 45 mins), that is a disgrace.

jayok wrote:

Perfect from this angle - it was just the state of the place!! I can't describe the smell or general grottyness of the place.... uggh.

Whatever a hospital needs to be, it need to be clean.

Too right no excuses!!!

LegacyUser

Im not sure if this adds to the discussion or not but temple st is not "the national childrens hospital"...its "The University Childrens Hospital"

the national childrens Hospital is in Tallaght incorparating harcourt st,the adelade and meath hospitals....and of course you have Our ladys hospital for sick children in crumlin.

No childrens Hospital is a nice place to be...infact it has to be one of the most tragic places for anyone ever to need to set foot...but I myself was there once and given the age of the buildings the general standard of cleanleness was excellant.

We are all now living in the age of MRSA..so dirty hospitals no longer exist...regular Hygiene audits ensure this.

BostonB

man1 wrote:

...A lot of people think they are not too bad now but they are comparing them to the hospitals in Ireland in the 70's and 80's. They are a complete disgrace and the sooner I get out of this country the better. ....

Personally I think it was better in the 70-80's. At least the hospitals were cleaner. The system is desperate state at the moment.

kelle

kaiser1 wrote:

We are all now living in the age of MRSA..so dirty hospitals no longer exist...regular Hygiene audits ensure this.

Dream on, kaiser1! I'm a hospital worker, there are audits but we all get told when the auditors are coming round so a big clean-up only happens then! Our department though is of an excellent standard and we adhere to all hygiene regulations.
I've had the misfortune of having to attend Temple Street with my daughter when she was 8 months old. It's an old dreary looking hospital, but she was on a semi-private ward which was very clean. However, I visited a public ward and it looked filthy!

BostonB

kaiser1 wrote:

Im not sure if this adds to the discussion or not but temple st is not "the national childrens hospital"...its "The University Childrens Hospital"

the national childrens Hospital is in Tallaght incorparating harcourt st,the adelade and meath hospitals....and of course you have Our ladys hospital for sick children in crumlin.

No childrens Hospital is a nice place to be...infact it has to be one of the most tragic places for anyone ever to need to set foot...but I myself was there once and given the age of the buildings the general standard of cleanleness was excellant.

We are all now living in the age of MRSA..so dirty hospitals no longer exist...regular Hygiene audits ensure this.

I assume the hygiene audits is sarcasm.

If you spend any time in a hospital these days. You'll see people filling in paperwork all the time. Nurses constantly at the duty station filling in forms, and patients having to get their attention because they hardly ever come around. I was curious what they, nurses and cleaners kept looking at the door of some of the rooms. And it was like cleaning and visit log of when the room was cleaned and when a patient was checked. Unfortunately they were filling in the log, but no one was going into the rooms.

I happened to be in with a relative over a good many weeks and for very long periods of time. Basically everyone in the family took shifts so the patient had 24 attention because we felt they were being neglected. We weren't alone in this, on the ward we were on there were at lease 3 or 4 other family doing the same thing. I have to say over a 5 week period none of us saw any serous cleaning going on. Most we saw was a token dusting and floor polishing. Toliets went uncleaned for days and even in the MRSA isolation there was no cleaning. To be honest I've seen cleaner pubs.

IMO all these audits and reports and figures you hear politicians and various others talking about in the media bear no relation to the reality. They are paper exercises. Mainly to cover their asses which is far more important than patient care.

I have had the experience of being in Temple Street a few times, once for over a week. I have to say I didn't think it was the cleanest place, but I wasn't really paying attention to be honest, being preoccupied with other things. I may not be good but it far from being the worst. However for me places like the Rotunda, Holles St, Mater, are far far worse. It really feels like we have a health service of a very poor country.

But I may be a little ratty this morning having another relative spend all day in casualty all day yesterday. 3 hours to see a doctor, and another 6 hours to see a surgeon.

LegacyUser

Im sorry guys I think that idea that hospitals only put on shows during the audits is not right.

My wife recently had our son in the Rotunda and on the day she went into labour there was a Hygeine audit on. I watched as the inspectors went through everything on the labour ward...and I mean everything....these inpectors found a bit of selotape on the back of my wifes bed for god sake!!

And the level of cleanleness required by the audit standards are certainly not achievable based on one days intensive cleaning.

And when you see nurses filling in paperwork spare a thought that all this paperwork is there to provide documented evidence of cleaning schedules and routines.

As far as the Rotunda goes I have to say I spent alot of time there over the last months of my wifes pregnancy and I have to say the place was always spotless.Ill agree that the area surrounding the main recption does need attention and the "wans" out smoking at the front door should be using the bin provided to dispose of thier ciggerette ends.

MRSA is the result of the overuse of antibiotics not the lack of cleanleness in the hospitals ...but its apparent ease of spread shows up what has alwys been a problem in hospitals.

man1

kaiser1 wrote:

We are all now living in the age of MRSA..so dirty hospitals no longer exist...regular Hygiene audits ensure this.

HA!:rolleyes:

matc66

I do think it warrants highlighting how hospitals get filthy in the first place.
Areas like A/E and toliets are are the receiving end of some very dirty people.
I recently had a baby in the Coombe and the toilets were very dirty near the outpatients. But they got that way because someone decided to throw toliet paper all over the place. There has to be some responsibility spread around!

BostonB

kaiser1 wrote:

Im sorry guys I think that idea that hospitals only put on shows during the audits is not right.

My wife recently had our son in the Rotunda and on the day she went into labour there was a Hygeine audit on. I watched as the inspectors went through everything on the labour ward...and I mean everything....these inpectors found a bit of selotape on the back of my wifes bed for god sake!!

And the level of cleanleness required by the audit standards are certainly not achievable based on one days intensive cleaning.

And when you see nurses filling in paperwork spare a thought that all this paperwork is there to provide documented evidence of cleaning schedules and routines.

It provides documented evidence. But IMO there little evidence of actual cleaning. Even in MRSA wards I've spent time in.

In a hospital they should find everything. Why should the place be half clean? There are people (apparently) cleaning these hospital all day long. You should never walk in and find them dirty. But yet you do. Either the documents are right and the physical evidence is wrong or....

kaiser1 wrote:

As far as the Rotunda goes I have to say I spent alot of time there over the last months of my wifes pregnancy and I have to say the place was always spotless.Ill agree that the area surrounding the main recption does need attention and the "wans" out smoking at the front door should be using the bin provided to dispose of thier ciggerette ends.

MRSA is the result of the overuse of antibiotics not the lack of cleanleness in the hospitals ...but its apparent ease of spread shows up what has alwys been a problem in hospitals.

MRSA hasn't always been a problem. If improved sanitation and isolation reduces the spread, then the opposite must be true. If some hospitals are managing to contain it, and others aren't you have to look at the differences between them.

luckat

The only way hospitals are going to be clean is if there are regular, unscheduled, *anonymous* audits, where people go in and take swabs of the floors and toilets and kitchens and walls and beds and sluice rooms, etc, and then *rate* the hospitals on a public scale for cleanliness.

Apart from the dirtiness of the surroundings, my own recent experience was that the doctors and nurses and other medical staff did not practise good hygiene.

(How many of them know that you need to wash your hands for as long as it takes to sing three choruses of 'Happy Birthday to You' to have the washing effective? None, apparently. In fact, little hand-washing was apparent, and white coats were worn open and didn't look super-clean at that.)

I got the impression that they thought they didn't attract dirt the way patients do.

parsi

My father was in hospital recently and the toilets didn't have any bin for the waste-paper from the handtowels. Now that is a fairly easy problem to resolve I would imagine and wouldn't require audits or consultants....

BostonB

parsi wrote:

My father was in hospital recently and the toilets didn't have any bin for the waste-paper from the handtowels. Now that is a fairly easy problem to resolve I would imagine and wouldn't require audits or consultants....

Recently was in casualty with a friend. The toilet for the patients had no soap, and no way of drying your hands. It was like that for about 7 hours. But I reckon in both cases it would have been checked and cleaned according to the paper trail.

littlebitdull

We have been in and out of Temple street on a fairly regular basis over the past seven years with our youngest. Have been there much more often that I would have liked to have been. Well to be honest even once would have been more often that I would have liked to bring my child to a hospital.

I have never had to wait to be seen by anyone, so can only assume if you were left 45 mintues to see triage ... your child was deemed ok to do so. Mine gets put straight into the treatment room, as she can never be left for as long as that. And again I have never had to wait that long for a doctor, but again I can only assume that your child was deemed ok to wait.

My point being that when I have needed the immediate care, and the immediate putting on of oxygen masks etc we got it.

I have never found the hospital dirty in any way. And the staff are brilliant. The services for parents are somewhat lacking, but ...

We are within five minutes of Blanchardstown hospital but as that is an adults hospital we have always gone to TS.

However my son, who is now 16 , was seen in Blanchardstown. Apparently from 15 they will treat him.

kelle

littlebitdull wrote:

However my son, who is now 16 , was seen in Blanchardstown. Apparently from 15 they will treat him.

I work in an adult hospital, the nearest paediatric hospital is 20 miles from there. Recently we had two children for examination, one was 14 years and 2 days old, the other was 13 years 11 and a half months. The 14 year old could be seen in our hospital, but the 13 year old had to travel to the paediatric hospital despite being only two weeks under the minimum age - so ridiculous but rules are rules!

Davidth88

Thaedydal are you serious ? If I took my kid to Naas for example I would be turned away ? Incredible , if you were a visitor to this country and had to take your child to hospital can you imagine ........

I have nightmares about Tallaght after a friend of mine spent 3 days on a trolley there , with drunk people having fights, being sick etc etc , and there seemed to be nothing you could do. Is the Childrens A&E the same place ??

I suppose if they don't have a childrens ward I can understand it , but shouldn't a general hospital be just that ?

As for cleanliness , the reception area at the Rotunda is pretty bad the one and only mens toilet ( the only one I found ) in that area is terrible. I always found the wards pretty clean when I was visiting , and my wife thought they were ok too. Although the womans's toilet in reception she reported as terrible , it was filthy ( and looked like it had been for ages ) , there was encusted blood/filth around the sink etc and people had been smoking in there etc etc

dame

kaiser1 wrote:

Im sorry guys I think that idea that hospitals only put on shows during the audits is not right.

My wife recently had our son in the Rotunda and on the day she went into labour there was a Hygeine audit on. I watched as the inspectors went through everything on the labour ward...and I mean everything....these inpectors found a bit of selotape on the back of my wifes bed for god sake!!

And the level of cleanleness required by the audit standards are certainly not achievable based on one days intensive cleaning.

And when you see nurses filling in paperwork spare a thought that all this paperwork is there to provide documented evidence of cleaning schedules and routines.

As far as the Rotunda goes I have to say I spent alot of time there over the last months of my wifes pregnancy and I have to say the place was always spotless.Ill agree that the area surrounding the main recption does need attention and the "wans" out smoking at the front door should be using the bin provided to dispose of thier ciggerette ends.

MRSA is the result of the overuse of antibiotics not the lack of cleanleness in the hospitals ...but its apparent ease of spread shows up what has alwys been a problem in hospitals.

It's a long time since I've been in a hospital ward thankfully but the last time I was it was the 8 days I spent in the Rotunda back in 2003. That was back before all the major MRSA talk and audits etc. The place looked clean enough and back then I wasn't really looking too closely to be honest. The place did look clean enough though, nothing seemed particularly dirty but by the end of the time there I did begin to wonder how often they actually did a thorough clean.

Cleaning staff would come around once a day with a sweeping brush. They'd sweep the centre of the room and give a good sweep around and under any empty beds but they wouldn't disturb anybody there. I lifted my bag onto the chair one of the last days there and the cleaner told me "ah it's all right love, we'll give it a good clean out when you're gone". Considering that beds can be filled again within hours I now wonder how often the whole floor actually got swept. The cleaners would dust the windowsills, tidy up the curtains a bit and that'd be it before they'd head off again. The patient bathrooms were always kept immaculately though and the entire floor had been recently done up so it was all nice and freshly decorated. (It was the top floor I think, semi-private).

BostonB

dame wrote:

It's a long time since I've been in a hospital ward thankfully but the last time I was it was the 8 days I spent in the Rotunda back in 2003. That was back before all the major MRSA talk and audits etc. The place looked clean enough and back then I wasn't really looking too closely to be honest. The place did look clean enough though, nothing seemed particularly dirty but by the end of the time there I did begin to wonder how often they actually did a thorough clean.

Cleaning staff would come around once a day with a sweeping brush. They'd sweep the centre of the room and give a good sweep around and under any empty beds but they wouldn't disturb anybody there. I lifted my bag onto the chair one of the last days there and the cleaner told me "ah it's all right love, we'll give it a good clean out when you're gone". Considering that beds can be filled again within hours I now wonder how often the whole floor actually got swept. The cleaners would dust the windowsills, tidy up the curtains a bit and that'd be it before they'd head off again. The patient bathrooms were always kept immaculately though and the entire floor had been recently done up so it was all nice and freshly decorated. (It was the top floor I think, semi-private).

I've seen the same "cleaning". Dusting moves the dust around. Ask yourself where is it being moved to...

man1

Will be heading in to the rotunda later this week with my wife who is expecting our first child.
I am dreading it and my wife even more. She was crying last night about having to stay in there in that 262 year old hospital on her own and surrounded by that mess and filth. We called up yesterday and asked how long will she be in there for, they said 2-3 days. Argh!

We would consider having a home birth but then of course you dont have all the expertise that is there in the rotunda (and it is good IMO) so it seems we cant have it both ways (cleanliness and good care) and we have to make compromises.

People seem to be proud that it is one of the oldest maternity hospitals in the world. HELLO!
History is nice and all that but when it comes to our health and well-being then we should demand the most modern cleanest hospitals for our children (not to mention us too!).

The reason we have the oldest maternity hospital is because all the rest of europe have torn their old hospitals down after the victorian ages and have continued to build new and modern hospitals.
Even hospitals from the 1960's and 1970's are considered too old in Holland and Germany. (and lots of other countries too)
The hospitals in Holland have to be seen to be believed and there is virtually no MRSA at all. It along with Norway has the lowest levels of it in europe and Ireland (along with britain) has one of the highest???

dame

man1 wrote:

Will be heading in to the rotunda later this week with my wife who is expecting our first child.
I am dreading it and my wife even more. She was crying last night about having to stay in there in that 262 year old hospital on her own and surrounded by that mess and filth. We called up yesterday and asked how long will she be in there for, they said 2-3 days. Argh!

We would consider having a home birth but then of course you dont have all the expertise that is there in the rotunda (and it is good IMO) so it seems we cant have it both ways (cleanliness and good care) and we have to make compromises.

I'd say they do pay more attention to the cleanliness now since all the MRSA and the publicity about it. I would still go back to the Rotunda next time. The midwives were all brilliant and there was one of them in the room with us almost all day long. They'd loads of midwives going through their training so lots of hands on practice for them and lots of senior midwives around checking up on them and us. Plenty of help with the breast-feeding, baby's baths, nappies and all of that. Great for a first-time mother. Best of luck and I hope all goes well for you.

EDIT; But yes you're right, nice new maternity hospitals (like Cork) for us all would be preferrable.

man1

dame wrote:

I'd say they do pay more attention to the cleanliness now since all the MRSA and the publicity about it. I would still go back to the Rotunda next time. The midwives were all brilliant and there was one of them in the room with us almost all day long. They'd loads of midwives going through their training so lots of hands on practice for them and lots of senior midwives around checking up on them and us. Plenty of help with the breast-feeding, baby's baths, nappies and all of that. Great for a first-time mother. Best of luck and I hope all goes well for you.

Thanks dame

I agree with you that the level of attention and care is good there, in fact better than most hospitals in dublin.

It is just the cleanliness that annoys me when it is so simple to get it right. When you don't have a modern hospital it can be harder to keep it clean but there are basic levels that are not hard to achieve.

There should be a sheep dip outside the toilets in the reception area for people to get into after a visit to the toilets there. Only joking but they are terrible.
Whatever about washing your hands, the fact that they are so small and when you go in there you cant help but brush up against the walls doors etc so there would then be germs on your body and clothing etc. and then you go up to the wards.

It should be knocked down and a new 10 storey 1000 bed ultra modern hospital should be built there instead. They have the money. They are spending 25 billion or so on the roads so why cant they spend 15 million on a (few) new hospital(s).

Rant over.

Will post back and let you know how it all went next week.

littlebitdull

Man1.......

I had all three of my babies in the Rotunda ... and on the last child I only stayed in for one night. I could have discharged myself the day she was born, but decided to give it that one night.....

If you feel that strongly about your wife not staying in then you can discharge yourself and go home. As long as there is no medical reason to stay she can choose not to.