Lansdowne redevelopment

Zebra3

It's just been on the radio that BP will hear the objections to the redevleopment of LR today.

Does anyone know if this is the final decision if the FAI and IRFU are happy with the outcome? Or can there be any further objections after this?

Bluetonic

Zebra3 wrote:

It's just been on the radio that BP will hear the objections to the redevleopment of LR today.

What radio station was that? Bad reporting as all the objections have already been heard.

Today is when An Bord Pleanála will announce it's planning decision.

Zebra3

Bluetonic wrote:

What radio station was that? Bad reporting as all the objections have already been heard.

Today is when An Bord Pleanála will announce it's planning decision.

Sorry, that what I meant!

So is this the final decision if the IRFU and FAI get what they want or can there be further appeals/objections?

honeymonster

my grandparents live in the area and they were saying that two of the people who objected had theyre house bought by whoever is developing lansdowne

loyatemu

honeymonster wrote:

my grandparents live in the area and they were saying that two of the people who objected had theyre house bought by whoever is developing lansdowne

by the IRFU actually, but their objections had already been heard so it shouldn't have any bearing on the decision.

PRman

They should be building it 65,000 all-seater - 50,000 is too small...

PRman

They should be building it 65,000 all-seater - 50,000 is too small...

Hippo

there's a rumour that the irfu will swap lansdowne road for the Irish Glass Bottle site in ringsend, where they could build a bigger stadium.

KdjaCL

Hippo wrote:

there's a rumour that the irfu will swap lansdowne road for the Irish Glass Bottle site in ringsend, where they could build a bigger stadium.

heard that mentioned in GAA circles, i would love if that happened


kdjac

thebaz

Getting a National rugby/football stadium built in this country , is nearly as complicated as Evertons 12 year plan to build a new stadium, meanwhile the Lansdowne and Goodison museums creak on into the 21st century .

Cerdito

PRman wrote:

They should be building it 65,000 all-seater - 50,000 is too small...

Totally agree with you - 50,000 is a mickey mouse capacity for international soccer and rugby.

I've seen the rumour of the Ringsend bottle factory in a few newspaper columns now. Supposedly it's being offered to the IRFU by developers with €300m thrown in in exchange for Lansdowne.

I think if that was the deal it might be worth going for, especially if any further restrictions are put on Lansdowne by an Bord Pleanala. It's already going to look pretty stupid with 1 stand lower than the other three.

cson

Cerdito wrote:

Totally agree with you - 50,000 is a mickey mouse capacity for international soccer and rugby.

Yep, I'll second that. Whats more than likely going to happen is they'll build Lansdowne and end up playing all the Rugby and Soccer games in Croker. They really underestimate the extent and depth of support for our national teams.

Arsenal's Emirates Stadium is also one that they 'under-built'. They're filling the 60,000 every week. Should have just built one as big as Utds.

As well as this, I would be of the thinking that if the GAA opened up all their grounds to GAA and Soccer, with a bit of investment, Ireland could host the Euro's or at least share them. The Gaelic Grounds in Limerick is a fine 50,000 capacity stadium which could be used by Munster as well.

*Off Topic - Does anyone know why the FA persevere with using Villa Park as a venue for the Cup semi's? Surely The Emirates/St James/Stadium Of Light would be better?

eirebhoy

Planning permission has been granted. Yipee!

mikemac

I've been listening to "devasted" residents on the radio blasting the decision.
My heart bleeds-many people would love to live in that area of Dublin.

While residents should be listened to (Croke Park resident myself:) ) I'm hoping they won't launch an appeal in the High Court and delay everything.

eirebhoy

http://www.pleanala.ie/lansdowne.html

cson

Whats the big deal about living beside a stadium anyway? Sure, you'll get the odd gouger trying to p*** in your front garden but overall it can't be too bad. Don't you get free (or at least reduced) tickets as well?

purple'n'gold

At the moment 80,000 plus people can attend a rugby match at Croke Park. In future 50,000 people will only be able to attend Landsdown Road. That makes 30,000 plus disgruntled people. And, its not really progress is it?

cson

Yeah, which is why I'm guessing the IRFU and FAI will work it so that most of the matches end up being played in Croke Park anyway.

Lansdowne could turn out to be a big 50,000, €350 million white elephant.

ninebeanrows

50k Stadia should be fine as long as we can switch between Croker and Landesdowne and Visa Versa, play the big games in Croker and smaller ones in Landesdowne, same for the GAA play the smaller games in Landesdowne.. Would do much for the game in south Dublin..

If Croker can be brought into the equation 50k is grand and i would reckon that that is the plan

Guy:Incognito

The GAA dont want football in Croke park. They were coeerced (sp?) in to it and the money helped. It's of no benifit to pay to play games in Lansdowne and leave their own stadium sitting idle up the road. It would also mean that theu were effectivly letting the FAI/IRFU play in Crok epark for free, so why bother in the first place. That situation would only be to the benifit of the FAI/IRFU.

smemon

i think 50,000 is grand.

It will be a nice tight, cosy ground with the potential to be very intimidating for opposition.

80k means everyone will get in and tickets will become less valuable. A high demand for tickets, makes you appreciate more the one's you have and adds a nice buzz to the occassion seeing people desperate for tickets.

leninbenjamin

smemon wrote:

i think 50,000 is grand.

It will be a nice tight, cosy ground with the potential to be very intimidating for opposition.

80k means everyone will get in and tickets will become less valuable. A high demand for tickets, makes you appreciate more the one's you have and adds a nice buzz to the occassion seeing people desperate for tickets.

I feel along the same lines. I also not entirely sure as to whether 65000 would be filled every game, i can only see it selling out for the big games. Also a lot of people are pointing out that they've been able to sell out Croker, but part of the demand for those tickets has been the fact the games are a novelty, i would imagine we would struggle to sell out except for the "crunch" ties, which don't happen very often in the world of internationals. I could be barking up the wrong tree completely, but unless you can guarantee a 65000 will sell out routinely i cannot imagine it would be worth it when you factor in higher maintanence costs etc.

Savman

cson wrote:

*Off Topic - Does anyone know why the FA persevere with using Villa Park as a venue for the Cup semi's? Surely The Emirates/St James/Stadium Of Light would be better?

As a Villa fan, allow me to enlighten thee. Villa Park is in Birmingham, smack bang in the midlands. A neutral central venue with excellent rail links both north & south. Its location means its ideal for hosting games and friendlies etc.

Emirates would be excellent too, but I'm sure there's many who wouldn't want to travel to London, especially if its 2 northern teams playing each other it would be pointless.
Also, your suggestion of St. James Park or Stadium of Light is ridiculous, imagine 2 london teams having to travel all the way up to Tyneside for a semi final. Madness.

Mitch Connor

50k is a fine capacity for the new stadium.

We (football) couldn't sell out Lansdowne at a lower capacity, and croker will only be full because it is croker, and the welsh - the other game will be full too, cause (i think) you had to buy tickets for it too.

With the state Irish football is in, they'll be lucky to pull in 50k punters in a few years time, unless the FAI get their act together, and there is no hope of that.

Bluetonic

Weathercheck wrote:

same for the GAA play the smaller games in Landesdowne.. Would do much for the game in south Dublin..

The Lansdowne pitch won't be big enough to hold a GAA pitch.

The capacity of the new Lansdowne road is alarming in the fact that unless you are already a block booker or buy a 10 year ticket it's pretty much a closed shop. Capacity at soccer matches will be 50,000. Of this 10% must be allocated to the away fans, 5,000 which leaves 45,000 home capacity. Of this 10,000 will be 10 year tickets in the premium level and corporate boxes. These sales will be used to fund some of the FAIs capita. This leaves 35,000 capacity. With the current block booking list accommodating 30,000 tickets, and some 12,000 tickets on the waiting list, together with the obvious increase in demand from corporate entities for tickets I don't foresee any access to competitive Internationals to joe public. Obviously some of the current block bookers will move to premium level but any excess will be eaten up by the waiting list.

Still what do I care, I'm a block booker.

DerekD Goldfish

Bluetonic wrote:

The Lansdowne pitch won't be big enough to hold a GAA pitch.

The capacity of the new Lansdowne road is alarming in the fact that unless you are already a block booker or buy a 10 year ticket it's pretty much a closed shop. Capacity at soccer matches will be 50,000. Of this 10% must be allocated to the away fans, 5,000 which leaves 45,000 home capacity. Of this 10,000 will be 10 year tickets in the premium level and corporate boxes. These sales will be used to fund some of the FAIs capita. This leaves 35,000 capacity. With the current block booking list accommodating 30,000 tickets, and some 12,000 tickets on the waiting list, together with the obvious increase in demand from corporate entities for tickets I don't foresee any access to competitive Internationals to joe public. Obviously some of the current block bookers will move to premium level but any excess will be eaten up by the waiting list.

Still what do I care, I'm a block booker.

Plenty of Joe Public are block bookers its not all corporate fans some of us were clever enogh to sign up years ago and some like me were lucky follwed an Eircom League side and got guarenteed tickets that way

Bluetonic

DerekD Goldfish wrote:

Plenty of Joe Public are block bookers its not all corporate fans some of us were clever enogh to sign up years ago and some like me were lucky follwed an Eircom League side and got guarenteed tickets that way

I think it's pretty obvious that I was talking about non block booking Joe Public, those people who may be coming of age, and who may now have the financial resources to be able to go attend Lansdowne Road for soccer international.

Forgive me for my ignorance but I don't see how being 'clever enough' to sign up years ago or being 'lucky' to follow an Eircom League side has any relevance to my comments on the stadium capacity, in fact I don't see how those two things are indeed clever or lucky. They are basically just lifestyle decisions you took.

DerekD Goldfish

Bluetonic wrote:

I think it's pretty obvious that I was talking about non block booking Joe Public, those people who may be coming of age, and who may now have the financial resources to be able to go attend Lansdowne Road for soccer international.

Forgive me for my ignorance but I don't see how being 'clever enough' to sign up years ago or being 'lucky' to follow an Eircom League side has any relevance to my comments on the stadium capacity, in fact I don't see how those two things are indeed clever or lucky. They are basically just lifestyle decisions you took.

Many of the long term block bookers are people who have been fans for years and suported the country when not many did and most EL fans are passionate about thier football and not glory hunters or evert seekers.
These people guarenteed tickets means that tere will at least be some genuine fans at game rather than the free for all a non block booking system would incourage.
It disapoiting so mnay tickets go to corporate sponsors and not real fans put this companies put lots of money into the game and unfortunatly thats the way football has gone.
Its un fortunate there will be little or no tickets on general sale for games but the solution of making the statuim an extra 20-30k wouldnt solve the problem as the additional capacity would only be used on the odd occasion and the increased building and maintenace cots would be crippeling.

PHB

I think it's pretty obvious that I was talking about non block booking Joe Public, those people who may be coming of age, and who may now have the financial resources to be able to go attend Lansdowne Road for soccer international.

I came of age financially three years ago, put my name on the waiting list, and am now on the block booking list. That's how it works, it shows dedication, and that's the way it should work, and probably always will work.
I've gone to maybe 4 Ireland internationals in my life through touts, and after being on the waiting list for 3 years, I'm finally in. Seems like a fair enough system to me.

DerekD Goldfish

PHB wrote:

I came of age financially three years ago, put my name on the waiting list, and am now on the block booking list. That's how it works, it shows dedication, and that's the way it should work, and probably always will work.
I've gone to maybe 4 Ireland internationals in my life through touts, and after being on the waiting list for 3 years, I'm finally in. Seems like a fair enough system to me.

Indeed otherwise you would have massive touting of the big games people with no general interest paying massive amounts and then an empty stadium for other games

PRman

There's no way 50k will be enough - we're filling croker (80k) for soccer and rugby - With a projected population increase of nearly 1m over the next 20 years we would EASILY fill 65,000. I think 80k might be a risk in case of a downturn in fortunes on the pitch (further downturn in soccer's case) We're a sporting nation and we deserve to have a stadium up there with the best in the world...

Sangre

80K for future Irish soccer internationals? You're having a laugh. In case you haven't noticed, the sell-outs in Croker have a certain 'novelty' attached to them.

Not to mention lansdowne is a rugby stadium where teams like Leinster and the SCT final are played. 80k would be financially silly.

Zebra3

PRman wrote:

we would EASILY fill 65,000.

Yeah, but only for the big games.

50,000 is about right.

Kingp35

Personally I think 65k would have been the right capacity. Clearly the Rugby heads will fill that no problem. Soccer will fill it for the majority of matches because I know plenty of people that would love to go to matches but cant get tickets. We wouldnt fill it for the crap friendlies but thats expected.

Anyway its kind of irrelevant now.

eirebhoy

Sangre wrote:

80K for future Irish soccer internationals? You're having a laugh. In case you haven't noticed, the sell-outs in Croker have a certain 'novelty' attached to them.

It's incredibly hard to get a ticket for Lansdowne. The Croke Park tickets sold out without going on public sale, between the block bookers, the 5,000 on the waiting list, the corporates and the away fans. I don't think people got on the block booking waiting list a year (or two, three, four years) ago just for the 4 games in Croke Park.

sharkman

Heard on the radio this moring that Lansdown had been promised a Champions league Final when finished ....

Will it meet all the Criteria ?


Criteria for UEFA 5 Star rating
Minimum capacity of 50,000 (5-star venues) / 30,000 (4-star venues) – individual seats with backrests. (Venues that still have individual seats without proper backrests will still continue to be accepted. In future, however, closer attention will be paid to this aspect, and which will influence the committee’s decision regarding the addition of venues to these list categories.)
Pitch dimensions of 105 x 68 m. The field of play must be in pristine condition and be prepared accordingly for a final (quality of grass, irrigation, smooth surface, etc.).
Protective fences around the field of play are not acceptable. Venues which have such installations will not be included on the list.
Sufficient room around the field of play for advertising boards and at least 18 TV cameras. In addition, there must be enough room between the goals and the first row of spectator seats behind both goals for a maximum of 150 photographers.
First-rate dressing-rooms for both teams and the referees (equal size and furnishings for both teams, spacious, bright and clean).
Suitable and appropriately equipped drug-testing room.
Floodlighting of a minimum intensity of 1,400 lux (eV) in the direction of the main camera, and of 1,000 Lux (eV) towards the other areas of the stadium, plus an efficient emergency power supply able to provide, without interruption, the same luminous light intensity as the main lighting.
Modern security installations (access monitoring system, adequate PA system, etc.).
A permanent TV surveillance system in colour that is able to monitor the movement of spectators, as well as their behaviour inside and outside the stadium. This installation must also be able to produce still shots of any troublemakers, which can then be distributed immediately to the security officers / stewards in the stadium.
Clear signage that everyone can understand inside and outside the stadium, as well as in its immediate vicinity.
Suitable covered seats for disabled spectators and their accompanying persons (minimum of two sectors with at least 50 places each). The areas for disabled spectators must be adequately equipped with toilet facilities and a refreshment bar.
Acceptable sanitary facilities for spectators (both sexes) in terms of numbers, cleanliness and standards. Toilets without seats will no longer be accepted for spectators of either sex.
Provision of first-rate media facilities in terms of camera positions, working places, TV studios, etc., in accordance with the “UEFA Guidelines for Media Facilities”.
Adequate first-class facilities must be provided for VIPs, including a minimum of 150 places in the Honorary Tribune VIP box.
International airport(s) able to cope with the huge extra demands of a UEFA final (capacity for up to 60 charter flights per day in addition to the normal, scheduled flights)
Adequate hotel accommodation. For UEFA and its partners, at least 1,000 five-star hotel rooms (UEFA Champions League) / 500 rooms (UEFA Cup) are needed. In addition, enough other hotel accommodation in all types of category must be available.

eirebhoy

They've been promised a European final, UEFA cup I think. Around 2010, 2011.

Guy:Incognito

Bigger stadium is needed. Bigger is always better. It's the same with the new Liverpool stadium, should be bigger than 60k.

The Rooster

I think 60,000 to 65,000 would have been ideal. But its been known for quite some time that 50,000 is the proposal.

I wonder what they'll do with the block bookers. Will the new Croker block bookers be considered equal to the old Lansdowne block bookers, or will they be told "hard luck" when we go to New Lansdowne.

Ridiculous to suggest the FAI and IRFU will play any games in Croke Park when New Lansdowne is built. There may have been a chance of a reciprocal arrangement, but the New Lansdowne pitch will be too small for GAA, so its a non-runner.

Zebra3

Well, considering the FAI were selling tickets for the friendly against Italy in 2005 about 3 or 4 days before the game, I'm not sure where all this "huge demand" crap is coming from. :rolleyes:

5starpool

For most games 50k is plenty. There will only be one or 2 Irish football games every couple of years where there will be significantly more demand, and while I know the rugby at present could attract 70k+ every game, I still think the balance of getting a 65k stadium approved (unlikely) and the general long term attractiveness of international fixtures, means that 50k is just about ok.

On a side note, those Lansdowne residents are doing themselves no favours in the popularity stakes. I'll swap house with one of them if they like.

Pigman II

I hope this stadium never gets built. Ideally Dublin city would have one 80k stadium for BIG games and another state of the art 40k stadium on the outskirts of the city for medium size ones. There is no need for this Frankenstein style architectural monstroscity to ever be built esp in it's current location.

cson

Pigman II wrote:

I hope this stadium never gets built. Ideally Dublin city would have one 80k stadium for BIG games and another state of the art 40k stadium on the outskirts of the city for medium size ones. There is no need for this Frankenstein style architectural monstroscity to ever be built esp in it's current location.

It does. Croke Park - 80,000. Lansdowne - 50,000.

Pigman II

Let me qualify that.

"For use by all codes, not just GAA"