banned islam why?

Boston

DeVore wrote:

What exactly IS queer theory? Is this really an accepted term? (genuine question.../me goes to wikipedia....)

DeV.

It's a real term. UCD offer seminars in it. see here used to be able to a course in it from what I recall. May have been droped as the lecturer of that coruse is now at trinity doing a phd.

Blowfish

Boston wrote:

InFront: I can see how a rational person would view the topics raised as an attack... really I can.

I think it was possibly due to the equating of islam and lesbians, which are mutually exclusive.

Filan

Yes there is a section of the women's studies department at u.c.d. which focuses on "Queer Theory" . Refers to Sexuality and Gender lack of synchrony. Michael O' Rourke lecturers in it

r3nu4l

Filan wrote:

...Muslims view questioning as a threat and Questions are rarely answered in the Islam forum.

Well, I've worked with a number of Muslims in Ireland and they were always happy to answer questions that I asked. I have also asked questions about Islam in the Islam forum and the guys there often post quite detailed answers and will admit when they are unsure of certain aspects of what they are saying.

The questions I've asked have been about fairly 'safe topics' I suppose but even when I question certain answers I'm given the guys respond well.

I think that the tone of a post is important in the Islam forum. Barging in asking 'Why do Muslim women hide their sneaky faces behind veils?' is most likely going to result in a ban while 'Why do Muslim women wear veils?' will get an answer.

DeVore

Filan, you can certainly have an intelligent debate on a forum like Humanities. The Islam forum isnt here to defend the religion from every person who wants to come in and have their questions answered. They have a right to a life without persecution too you know.

If you want to argue about modern politics, feminism in Islam or other contentious issues, please take it to somewhere less specific like Humanities. If, however, that isnt IN THEIR FACE enough for someone, then they probably arent long for Boards anyway.

DeV.

Amz

Women in Switzerland were denied the right to vote until the early 1970s ...

Boston

r3nu4lare questions on islamic culture regularly answered on the forum. If so, then regardless of the orginal intentions for the forum, it's now a place to ask those sort of questions, and its perfectly understandable that people would.

Nevyn

Boston wrote:

He wasn't banned for being off-topic, he was banned for being a troll. Why delete rather then move the thread. why not just say The forum is about "the religion and spirtuality of islam and not the culture"? The guy didn't do anything wrong bar, as you suggest, post the topic in the wrong forum, happens all the time on boards, few moderators ban for it.

I don't think personally it warrented a ban but if you read the thread for context you can see that they mods warned repeatily about the thread being dragged off topic.

The christainity forum has had simular issues with non religous matters in connection to various churches being brought up.

It can be hard to seperate religion from culture and this does get tricky with Islam.

If metrovelvet had of started a seperate thread on this issue I doubt she would have been banned. Mostly likely the thread would have been locked or moved.

Hobbes

I banned him. The thread was already degenerating. The thread was about the Hajib and about halfway through people thought to start discussing the killing of homosexuals and other crap. So everyone got warned to stay on topic more then once.

After that, kmick felt the need to keep discussing the forum moderation rather then the topic and got temp banned for it.

Metro's comment clearly looked like they were taking the p!ss. Mainly because they were equating Feminists to Lesbians (ignoring the fact that Islam and homosexuality don't mix).

As for Filan, he's a different story and has only been warned. He has posted (his first) about the rights of women in Islam. He got loads of answers and discussion on various things but never responded to anything on that thread. Instead some days later opened up another exact same thread (which you can get banned for). I had locked his thread and pointed him to the thread in question where he should continue the conversation (his original thread).

After that he felt the need to start posting about how Muslims are trying to silence him and other crap. Only reason I haven't banned him yet is I believe hes a newbie.

And for other people who are in that thread. There is no problem with say discussing Islam in relation to homosexuality but start a new thread on it, it had nothing to do with Hajib directly. Metro should know better considering they have been banned before (without a warning) for breaking Rule 1.

Hobbes

Boston wrote:

And why would I be banned.

You wouldn't. We have a general rule of what goes on outside the forum doesn't reflect inside the forum.

So those with a beef with Islam can do so on other forums and as long as they can follow the rules in that forum are more then welcome to ask questions, as long they know that at the end of the day even if they don't like the answer they have to leave it at that.

Boston

Thaedydal wrote:

I don't think personally it warrented a ban but if you read the thread for context you can see that they mods warned repeatily about the thread being dragged off topic.

The christainity forum has had simular issues with non religous matters in connection to various churches being brought up.

It can be hard to seperate religion from culture and this does get tricky with Islam.

If metrovelvet had of started a seperate thread on this issue I doubt she would have been banned. Mostly likely the thread would have been locked or moved.

If Hobbes genuinely believes she was a troll, then theres no reason to believe she wouldn't have been banned regardless of whether or not she posted in a new thread or an existing one. I personally would like to read the post in question, and see why hobbes came to such a wrong conclusion.

Amz

Amz wrote:

Women in Switzerland were denied the right to vote until the early 1970s ...

I can top that!Did you know that your eyes are the same size now as they were when you were a baby but your ears and nose never stop growing?:rolleyes:

Amz

Well it was more something for the people who consider all Islamic states etc. to be very anti-women to think about.

Hobbes

Boston wrote:

I personally would like to read the post in question, and see why hobbes came to such a wrong conclusion.

Then read the thread. Dinobot had responded to the post while I was deleting it. I only left the response to point out where metro could be taking off topic for the thread and that he got a valid answer.

DeVore

Perhaps someone can answer this question for me. Has any practising Islamist been banned from the forum or is it just people who had "questions" they felt they were entitled to an answer for?

DeV.

DeVore

Boston, it may well have been bad timing in the sense that there had been a few warnings in the thread before. I know there are posts I would ban people for which if they were posted word for word at another time or place I wouldnt bat an eyelid at. If I've shouted at everyone who is having a row to pipe down and one guy cant let it go and jumps up and say "so what about the queers? huh?!"... he's the guy I'm going to shoot and then say "any other questions?".

DeV.

Boston

Hobbes wrote:

Metro's comment clearly looked like they were taking the p!ss. Mainly because they were equating Feminists to Lesbians (ignoring the fact that Islam and homosexuality don't mix).

Kinda tenuous conclusion to come to, but regardless, you're saying the ban was due to being off-topic. Grand.

Filan

Amz that is exactly what I mean by not answering the question..which is so often the case on the Islam forum...we are not talking about Switzerland...we are talking or at least were about Islam...diverting attention..distorting the original point...and 1970 was a long time ago...this isn't about Switzerland in 1970

Perhaps a little off the point but my experience of interactions with Muslims in Ireland has been overwhelmingly negative...not completely I stress but on the great majority of occasions. At work last year a Muslim colleague told me that I should not be eating bacon...because their religion did not allow it...when I asked why, his response was "it's full of fat...so ...so bad..." Is fat not conatined in every meat?. In the same workplace a Muslim stated that a woman criticised him for staring at her...he said that he then told her that it was her fault for exposing her face..."A woman is for her husband only"...when I asked him why he panted, huffed and puffed before eventually stating " I am not a priest!"...he couldn't answer.

Muslims were also responsible for attacks on members of Limericks gay community.

I know that there is good and bad in every community...I too am very far from perfect....but I do question whether the Islamic culture is compatible with the admittedlyimperfect values we hold dear here

Sangre

amz wrote:

Well it was more something for the people who consider all Islamic states etc. to be very anti-women to think about.

So are you saying we should let them be 'anti-women' if they, in fact, are? Spain used to be dictatorship up until the yadda yadda, guess the west shouldn't be anti-facist either? Whatever, so off topic.

Tbh, now I can see why Hobbes banned him, it wasn't the content of the post but the fact it was way off topic

Islam forum posts always set off my 'feedback bells'. I don't like the style that its modded in, same with Paranormal. A kind of 'you can read what we think but you can't post what you think'. Tbh, I think that's better suited to a private forum.

Filan

Filan wrote:

Amz that is exactly what I mean by not answering the question..which is so often the case on the Islam forum...we are not talking about Switzerland...we are talking or at least were about Islam...diverting attention..distorting the original point...and 1970 was a long time ago...this isn't about Switzerland in 1970

Perhaps a little off the point but my experience of interactions with Muslims in Ireland has been overwhelmingly negative...not completely I stress but on the great majority of occasions. At work last year a Muslim colleague told me that I should not be eating bacon...because their religion did not allow it...when I asked why, his response was "it's full of fat...so ...so bad..." Is fat not conatined in every meat?. In the same workplace a Muslim stated that a woman criticised him for staring at her...he said that he then told her that it was her fault for exposing her face..."A woman is for her husband only"...when I asked him why he panted, huffed and puffed before eventually stating " I am not a priest!"...he couldn't answer.

Muslims were also responsible for attacks on members of Limericks gay community.

I know that there is good and bad in every community...I too am very far from perfect....but I do question whether the Islamic culture is compatible with the admittedlyimperfect values we hold dear here

To be fair.This is not the forum to be discussing this.

Boston

Filan don't drag the topic off in that direction.

Amz

Filan I have found your posts to be quite abrasive and negative, not just here, but on the forum I mod where you asked for help and did nothing but complain about the help given to you.

I'm not a Muslim, not that that's anybody's business, but if you act in real life like you do on boards.ie I can understand why anyone would be negative towards you. I shudder to think how ignorant you are in real life when you don't have think about getting banned for a comment you make, or a "question" you ask.

You don't have a god given right to answers, and as I said earlier, if you react to the answers about Islam like you did to the answers you got on the A/M/D forum then I'm surprised you haven't been banned yet.

Hobbes

Filan wrote:

Amz that is exactly what I mean by not answering the question..

But you are not looking for an answer. Your looking to accuse or berate muslims. You have made that quite clear.

You also got a response on your thread about Womens rights and Islam and I can only think that you didn't get the answers you wanted so you took one subject from the thread (which was answered there) and tried to start a new thread on it.

If you want to get into that sort of thing there is Humanities or GLB forum (not sure if that discussion would be allowed tbh).

You know Muslims can read and post in other sections of boards.ie. They aren't all hiding in that forum.

seamus

Filan, if you wish to discuss that topic, start a new thread on Humanites.

Nevyn

Those are questions about islamic culture not the faith or religion Filan.
They would be fitting in humanities but not in the islamic forum which is clearly in the spirituality/religion catagory.

Amz

Sangre wrote:

So are you saying we should let them be 'anti-women' if they, in fact, are? Spain used to be dictatorship up until the yadda yadda, guess the west shouldn't be anti-facist either? Whatever, so off topic.

Tbh, now I can see why Hobbes banned him, it wasn't the content of the post but the fact it was way off topic

Ismlam forum posts always set off my 'feedback bells'. I don't like the style that its modded in, same with Paranormal. I kind of whoe 'you can read what we think but you can't post what you think'. Tbh, I think thats better suited to a private forum.

No Sangre, that's not what I'm saying, what I'm saying is that people, even back in the 70s probably considered the Swiss pretty enlightened, yet they denied women the basic right to vote.

A lot of Irish people don't seem to be willing or able to grasp the fact that Islam isn't just about Sharia law, being anti-women, the Hijab etc. Like Christianity Islam is quite diverse, so the generalisation and the anti-Islamic sentiment that is so evident amongst some of the posters here annoys me.

The questions posted in the forum often appear to me to be an attempt to ridicule or belittle Islam and it's beliefs/practices which I don't think people are entitled to do. I think it's right that the forum is strictly moderated, as Islam is such an easy target these days and I doubt many of the posters bemoaning the strict moderation are asking questions in an attempt to become enlightened about Islam.

InFront

Filan wrote:

Muslims, including Moderators try to pretend that anachronistic passages of the Koran are 'bad translations' (this I have encountered so many times!)...yet no alternative translation is provided.

Agree with what Hobbes said, just to add that the link where you can find a better translation was actually provided by the_new_mr, so you can't say no alternative translation was provided.
No translation from the arabic is perfect, but if it's a thing that you don't speak Arabic, how you can be in a position to affirm or deny its accuracy?

I think they are in state of denial as to the contents of the Koran

Muslims spend and/ or have spent a lot of time learning the Qur'an. If you are un-knowingly reading bad translations, or not comparing translations, I think I can see why you might then think it's a cover up, but I completely disagree that it is. Short of you learning Arabic, or placing faith in better translation, I dun't know how you can be convinced otherwise.

Incidentally is anyone aware of a site where one can have an intelligent, open and above all honest debate on Islam? I'm sure intelligence is not lacking amongst certain figures on the Islam forum...they just leave it at home or somewhere else. They don't bring it with them here

Intelligent, open and honest debate is exactly what is welcome in the Islam forum, nobody wants to give the impression that it is otherwise, and it is unfair of you to present that notion. Bad translations, unfounded accusations and cheap shots at Islam are the things that are unwelcome. And bannings are actually quite rare in the Islam forum too.

Hobbes

DeVore wrote:

Perhaps someone can answer this question for me. Has any practising Islamist been banned from the forum or is it just people who had "questions" they felt they were entitled to an answer for?

DeV.

There is a hidden list in the Charter Dev. To answer your question. Those I know to be Muslim who have been banned from the Islam forum.

29-10-2005 Qadri - BAN 1 week - Verbatim posting. Ban recinded early as listed information to prove as author (although has not been verifed yet).
25-07-2006 babyvaio - WARN - Attacking other religons.
27-07-2006 babyvaio - BAN 1 week - Not obeying moderators comment to remain on topic.
27-07-2006 medina - BAN 1 week - Incitement to flame.


They are the only ones I know are actual muslims. The list is long so may be one or two more.

WhiteWashMan

DeVore wrote:

Perhaps someone can answer this question for me. Has any practising Islamist been banned from the forum or is it just people who had "questions" they felt they were entitled to an answer for?

DeV.

i fail to see what religion has to do with banning.

as for having questions, do you have a 'relevant-o-meter' to measure the substance of a persons questions and deem them worthy of answering, or apprently on the flip side, banning?

whether something is entitled to an answer i cant say, but they are entitled to ask the question surely?

DeVore wrote:

Boston, it may well have been bad timing in the sense that there had been a few warnings in the thread before. I know there are posts I would ban people for which if they were posted word for word at another time or place I wouldnt bat an eyelid at. If I've shouted at everyone who is having a row to pipe down and one guy cant let it go and jumps up and say "so what about the queers? huh?!"... he's the guy I'm going to shoot and then say "any other questions?".

perhaps the mods need to let the poster know why they are banned?

on the other hand, someone did post about the rights of women, and that was deemed acceptable, if still strictly off topic.
im not sure that discussing feminism in relation to this part of the thread is therefore not still bang on topic.

although, im unsure about the queer theory stuff, but i can ata push see how it fits in with the whole rights/feminist/lesbian side of things.

i understand that the forum is ruled with a rod of iron, and im surprised hobbes hasnet discovered the split option yet. if he time to read all of the rubbish that si written in that forum, he has 2 minutes to split out any offendingly off-topic posts and heap them into another thread.

i do not however see why people need to continually justify their posts and the relevance of those posts. its a discussion. this off-topic banning crap is as archaic as flogging homosexuals.

metrovelvet

Look.

The thread was about the wearing of hijab, a cultural and customary garb worn by WOMEN. People [guys] were arguing back and forth.

I thought it would be important that some INCLUSION of a female perspecitve/philosophy should be present.

I happened to be watching a documentary about Islamic lesbians in the US and though that there might me some feminist/queer theory on the subject that someone might be aware of as it was very interesting to hear these women'spoint of view of what it was like to be both muslim and practising lesbians.

I said nothing derogatory about muslims, homosexuals, or women.

Queer theory is very much a legitimate academic study as is feminist theory and both have continuous dialogues with each other.