banned islam why?

Hobbes

WhiteWashMan wrote:

perhaps the mods need to let the poster know why they are banned?

There is an active banlist mentioned in the Forum charter. If they had read the charter they would know this and could read the reason for their ban. Seeing as Metro has been banned before she would be aware of the drill.

There is also a hidden banlist for the mods/admins.

on the other hand, someone did post about the rights of women, and that was deemed acceptable, if still strictly off topic.

The rights of women was a seperate thread and relates to Filan and his current rant of why his thinks Muslims are out to get him. I had in fact PM'ed him a day or so ago explaining what wasn't acceptable there and to give it over yet appears not to have read it as they are going on about it again here.

although, im unsure about the queer theory stuff, but i can ata push see how it fits in with the whole rights/feminist/lesbian side of things.

The thread was about womans clothing. It had nothing to do with Lesbians, stoning homosexuals, delusional rants of persecution, where did the Koran come from or would looking sexy get you a job.

hobbes hasnet discovered the split option yet.

If the person is incapable to following the forum charter, doing the work they should be doing isn't going to help.

this off-topic banning crap is as archaic as flogging homosexuals.

You seem to think that it was done off the bat. It wasn't there was multiple warnings, and despite that people felt the need to disobey them.

The keep on topic is there for a very good reason. Earlier on in the forum certain people had their bee in a bonnet about one aspect of Islam and no matter what the subject the thread was about they would drag other threads onto that subject over and over. You end up with a polluted view.

btw, I am actually holding back regarding bans. At the request of the_new_mr. Both Mr and Infront are generally a bit more forgiving then me, but mainly because as soon as someone realises they have been banned from the Islam forum by a muslim they go "Ha!! See!! What did I tell you! Muslims want to censor what they don't like!". I seriously get tired of that sh!t.

Incidently there are a number of people who are in the Islam forum, and regulars who do not agree with Islam. Off the top of my heads Wibbs and Schuhart. Both for the most part are able to continue discourse on forum in a civil fashion and know that if they have something they need to give out about they do on other forums.

DeVore

In answer to your question WWMan, no... I just go with my gut. Its proved remarkable accurate and I have learned to trust it. Unfortunately other people dont have access to it so as a widespread solution, its probably not a runner.

People who ask questions with hidden agendas like "Why does Islam oppress women" should be banned from the Islam forum. They should not be banned from Humanities. Islam is the home turf of Islamists as Christianity is the home turf of Christians. Neither should have to defend themselves in their home turf, just as I wouldnt expect poker players to have to defend their game from rabid anti-gamblers in the Poker forum. If they want to venture out into the wider discussion spaces like Humanities then they need to accept that they will be required to "gird their loins" so to speak.

While Hobbes may not have discovered the "split thread" option as you so wryly pointed out, perhaps the OP could trade him some lessons. He'll show Hobbes where that option is, while Hobbes can show him where the "Post New Thread" button is.... fair deal?

DeV.

DeVore

Hobbes wrote:

"Ha!! See!! What did I tell you! Muslims want to censor what they don't like!". I seriously get tired of that sh!t.

Oh dont even start! Try multiplying that by 500 forums and then come talk to me.... lol!

DeV.

Boston

DeVore wrote:

People who ask questions with hidden agendas like "Why does Islam oppress women" should be banned from the Islam forum. They should not be banned from Humanities. Islam is the home turf of Islamists as Christianity is the home turf of Christians. Neither should have to defend themselves in their home turf, just as I wouldnt expect poker players to have to defend their game from rabid anti-gamblers in the Poker forum. If they want to venture out into the wider discussion spaces like Humanities then they need to accept that they will be required to "gird their loins" so to speak.

DeV.

If you allow topics dealing with Islamic culture you can't then turn around and say, actually something that are "sensitive" are off limits. Well you can, but you're going to get call on it. The poker forum is about playing the game not about the culture/sub culture of gambling, as such those topics arn't allowed.

Filan

Just want to say that I apologise and know I overstepped the mark in some instances here...I admit that and I'm sorry...and to Amz...I'm passionate...and well sometimes passion interferes with my judgment..sometimes..perhaps I expected too much from the Islam forum...I felt that by asking questions that I could change things...even if people agree with me here..it isn't going to change much in the larger picture

Amz

I wouldn't call it passion ...

*goes back to playing Rayman*

Filan

I honestly don't understand the last phrase....
Just have to accept that there's certain things I can't change...and be realistic

WhiteWashMan

DeVore wrote:

In answer to your question WWMan, no... I just go with my gut.

a glib answer to a glib question

DeVore wrote:

People who ask questions with hidden agendas like "Why does Islam oppress women" should be banned from the Islam forum. They should not be banned from Humanities. Islam is the home turf of Islamists as Christianity is the home turf of Christians. Neither should have to defend themselves in their home turf, just as I wouldnt expect poker players to have to defend their game from rabid anti-gamblers in the Poker forum. If they want to venture out into the wider discussion spaces like Humanities then they need to accept that they will be required to "gird their loins" so to speak.
.

i dont disagree with you on that. i am not saying that that the islam forum should be the target for attack. nor should it have to defend itself.

but what if i were to wander in, and ask, 'guys, tell me, why is it that islam seems to oppress women?'
maybe i could give my opinion on that and see what comes back. sounds like an open discussion.

i guess to use your anaology, i could pop into the poker forum and ask about anti gambling protests at a big poker meet?

perhaps only those looking to be attacked, see an attack in a simple question?

it goes back to the fact that if you feel threatened by attacks on your faith, then you cant have much of it. i could understand someone getting tired of the same questions all the time, not i dont understand why someone would get defensive.

but thats more an observation, rather than a relevant point. come to think of it, there is no relevant point here, its just musings.

DeVore wrote:

While Hobbes may not have discovered the "split thread" option as you so wryly pointed out, perhaps the OP could trade him some lessons. He'll show Hobbes where that option is, while Hobbes can show him where the "Post New Thread" button is.... fair deal?

DeV.

while we're being facetious, i'll show hobbes how to pm a ban to someone as well. it would stop all of this from happening. or he could just read the current thread on the mod board. i think ive laid out a fairly simple a quick proceedure.

hobbes wrote:

The keep on topic is there for a very good reason. Earlier on in the forum certain people had their bee in a bonnet about one aspect of Islam and no matter what the subject the thread was about they would drag other threads onto that subject over and over. You end up with a polluted view.

but i think the forum must have moved on and matured, and you can allow some reign of movement.
after all, if i started a thread on women showing their legs, would you ban someone who mentioned feet?

hobbes wrote:

If the person is incapable to following the forum charter, doing the work they should be doing isn't going to help.

well, we could argue about that all day, but if you feel so strongly about maintaining the direction and thread of, well, a thread, then i think the onus is on you to ensure that anything else should be split out.

after all, why would you want to edit what may end up being an interesting discussion in its own rights. if someone perceives it as being on topic, and i think its obvious that metro velvet did, (and i would agree with her, but thats aside form this), then banning them becuase you dont see it is too harsh imo.

but, it is your forum and if those are your rules, then metrovelvet remains banned for a week. you wont do it again you bad girl. but id ask you to think about what options there are next time.

Hobbes

Boston wrote:

If you allow topics dealing with Islamic culture you can't then turn around and say, actually something that are "sensitive" are off limits.

They are not off limits at all. Where they are off limits is if you..

a) Load the question (like Devs earlier one)
b) Not intrested in an answer, just posting as a Cavuto Mark (eg. "Is [insert name] a moron? .. I am not saying he is or not, I am just asking a perfectly innocent question that people want to know").
c) Posting off topic in a thread not related to what you are asking.
d) You have a clear beef with Islam and thinking you can do it on that forum.

wwwman wrote:

but what if i were to wander in, and ask, 'guys, tell me, why is it that islam seems to oppress women?'
maybe i could give my opinion on that and see what comes back. sounds like an open discussion.

Then you would be warned/banned if you asked that way. That's a Cavuto Mark. There is already a thread on womens rights in Islam (actually about 5 or so that I recall if you ignore hajib threads).

kmick

Hobbes wrote:

After that, kmick felt the need to keep discussing the forum moderation rather then the topic and got temp banned for it.

This is untrue I never once questioned the forum moderation. Please take that back.

Boston

Hobbes wrote:

They are not off limits at all. Where they are off limits is if you..

c) Posting off topic in a thread not related to what you are asking.

See, it's a matter of propective, she thought it was on topic. She therefore was nto deliberately posting off topic. You're posts here would seem to suggest that you beleive the topics she raised are not relavent to the islamic forum, perhaps you should indicate so in the charter.

WhiteWashMan

ah, bannings are handed out on the basis of word play and sentence formation.

ok. you need to put that right up there in a sticky so that pepole can ask their questions without getting banned.

DeVore

WWMan, I didnt take your question as glib, and my answer wasnt glib either. Genuinely I have a gut feeling about bans etc and tend to go with it. I used to agonise over such things but repeatedly being on target with my gut feeling as to what is fair and what is not has led me to rely on it more. I think we can all recognise when someone is being a tard (I'm not particularly referring to anyone in this thread now), some people dont really have the courage of their convictions to act on that and instead try to create "rules" to back up their opinion. Personally, never felt the need. I'd rather be honest and say "I think you are a tard and I'm banning you" then create makey-up rules to justify myself. Benevolent Dictator and all....
Just my opinion about this, quite a bit off topic though.

DeV.

InFront

metrovelvet wrote:

The thread was about the wearing of hijab, a cultural and customary garb worn by WOMEN. People [guys] were arguing back and forth.

This isn't the Islam forum (obviously) but hijab is not an item of clothing, nor is it limited to women. Hijab is not the headscarf worn by women, it is a practice of modesty on behalf of both men and women who are Muslims. And believe it or not, hijab does effect men, we must observe our own (different) hijab too!:)

Hijab has religious importance, it's not really a cultural question in itself.

I thought it would be important that some INCLUSION of a female perspecitve/philosophy should be present.

Unfortunately there are very few female Muslims on boards, and if you look at the thread in question, it is something that was pointed out, and a few people said it was a pity that this is the case including myself and the the_new_mr and I think Schuhart. More female input in the Islam would be great actually.

If you allow topics dealing with Islamic culture you can't then turn around and say, actually something that are "sensitive" are off limits. Well you can, but you're going to get call on it.

There's nothing that Islamic scholarship has "no opinion" on as far as I know, so as long as somebody says "look at this culture (e.g. homosexuals), what does islam say about that?" this really isn't a problem.
But asking "Look at islam, what does "homosexual culture" say about Islam?"... in the Islam forum, seems back to front. This homosexual theory topic metrovelvet invoked, it is another theory, not Islamic theory, so doesn't it belong somewhere else? Anyway Hobbes has already given his reasons.

By the way I can't speak for anybody else who uses the Islam forum, but I for one have no problem with a thread asking about what Islam says about homosexuals in general, once the question isn't designed just to cause trouble or generate a feedback thread.
Right now I guess it would be about as welcome as an immigration thread in the politics forum, but I can't see that it would be 'off limits'.

Hobbes

WhiteWashMan wrote:

ah, bannings are handed out on the basis of word play and sentence formation.

Is there any other way? If I called you a moron or said Why do people think WWMan is a moron? Which one is not a bannable offense?

The charter for the forum is quite clear on whats allowed. 9 times out of 10 people don't read the charter.

Kinetic^

Is it possible to get banned from Feedback?

The Corinthian

Hobbes wrote:

Metro's comment clearly looked like they were taking the p!ss. Mainly because they were equating Feminists to Lesbians (ignoring the fact that Islam and homosexuality don't mix).

Without having read the text of the offending post, how did Metrovelvet equate the two rather than cite a position held by two, frankly, related philosophical schools? Even given that, it seems an idiotic decision as the discussion covered the reasoning behind the hijab and had already touched not only on religion, but also on historical, ethnic and cultural influences - all of which would be equally OT.

Without seeing the text of the post in question and based solely upon Hobbes' reasoning, it looks like a case of bad modding, TBH. But let's not let that stop the wagon circling.

DeVore wrote:

What exactly IS queer theory? Is this really an accepted term?

It's the study of how everybody is really deep, deep down gay and simply are in denial about it.

Amz

There's only one way to find out Kenny.

Kinetic^

Amz wrote:

There's only one way to find out Kenny.

[Marty Mc Fly] Did you just call me chicken? [Marty Mc Fly]

I'd have to say that gut feeling is probably the best way to go with it. If you get it wrong then do the opposite in future.

WhiteWashMan

DeVore wrote:

WWMan, I didnt take your question as glib, and my answer wasnt glib either. Genuinely I have a gut feeling about bans etc and tend to go with it. I used to agonise over such things but repeatedly being on target with my gut feeling as to what is fair and what is not has led me to rely on it more. I think we can all recognise when someone is being a tard (I'm not particularly referring to anyone in this thread now), some people dont really have the courage of their convictions to act on that and instead try to create "rules" to back up their opinion. Personally, never felt the need. I'd rather be honest and say "I think you are a tard and I'm banning you" then create makey-up rules to justify myself. Benevolent Dictator and all....
Just my opinion about this, quite a bit off topic though.

DeV.

in that case, im glad, i just dont want to share your stomach. nice offer an all...

and i agree, i think we can all recognise when someone is being a 'tard', and im more than happy to tell someone they are banned becuase i think they are an idiot, rather than talk about charters and rules and blah blah blah.

and you are right, this is not about me or you, but im not a fan of harsh rules. rules are restrictive and you should have to live by them if you introduce them. rules have technocalities.

i have always advocated moderating by common sense. and if that means banning someone for being idiotic, then so be it. and if someone doesnt like it, then thats tough.

but this doesnt apply to the islam forum, and thats up to hobbes and co.

hobbes wrote:

Is there any other way? If I called you a moron or said Why do people think WWMan is a moron? Which one is not a bannable offense?

The charter for the forum is quite clear on whats allowed. 9 times out of 10 people don't read the charter.

i dont know si, im not going to tell you how to run your forum. ive made suggestions, and ive listened to your points. i dont really see the need for the strict rules, but then again im removed, and all the fora i look after tend to be anarchy at the best of times

and i have never banned anyone for calling me a moron, or anything else. what i will do ask them why they think that, an ask them to back up that opinion, and then i go off on some childish off topic wandering and the thread fizzles out. not too unlike most feedback threads tbh.

but im sure at least half of boards.ie think im a moron. the other half probably arent as nice about me. but thats ok. my mum loves me

Hobbes

The Corinthian wrote:

Without seeing the text of the post in question and based solely upon Hobbes' reasoning, it looks like a case of bad modding, TBH. But let's not let that stop the wagon circling.

Then go read the thread rather then making assumptions based on lack of facts.

WhiteWashMan wrote:

but im sure at least half of boards.ie think im a moron. the other half probably arent as nice about me. but thats ok. my mum loves me

It wasn't an actual statement. I'm not calling you a moron. (despite arguments I still respect your opinions. ), but your response shows that something written (even as an example) can be taken to mean something else. It's that sort of stuff that we have to put up with on Islam forum. While one person may not take offense the muppets are going for a larger demographic.

btw it is also not "my forum". I moderate it. It's easy to do back seat moderating when your not moderating said forum, as you always say by offering modship to AH.

WhiteWashMan

dont worry, i know what you were saying and i was being facetious


pffft, and there was me being accused of pandering to the media for deleting a post by a mod on the AH forum that children were sexy.

Gordon

The Corinthian wrote:

Without having read the text of the offending post

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=52946871&postcount=77

DeVore

I dont know how anyone (TC I'm looking at you) can accuse us of Wagon Circling when two fairly senior mods are dimetrically opposed on this topic, lol... Perhaps its one of those non-euclidean circles which in our space appears to be a line from black to white....

Additionally, I do enjoy writing a carefully worded response and have it almost entirely ignored by the most of the protagonists in the argument. Hello wall.... how are you today wall?

DeV.

Boston

DeVore wrote:

Additionally, I do enjoy writing a carefully worded response and have it almost entirely ignored by the most of the protagonists in the argument. Hello wall.... how are you today wall?

DeV.

In fairness I replied to it (at least the post I think your talking about), but only to say it's really applicable.

Posters and moderators on that forum believe certain "facts" (as hobbes put it) and you're not going to convince them other wise. Tbh I don't really think it's anybodies place to go on to that forum and try to show the posters the errors of their ways.

Nevyn

DeVore wrote:

Hello wall.... how are you today wall?
DeV.

OH
Thats what is wrong with the universe, Dev has started the change.
It certainly explains the trips off to places forgien.

Talliesin

Hobbes wrote:

(ignoring the fact that Islam and homosexuality don't mix)

The sections of The Perfumed Garden that were left untranslated because the translator didn't want to deal with homosexuality where written by a Muslim and censored by a secularly inclined Westerner.

The two may not mix well, but they've certainly been mixed.

The Corinthian

Hobbes wrote:

Then go read the thread rather then making assumptions based on lack of facts.

I have read the thread - and contributed to it - and I'm basing my opinion on the available facts I have and have been very open about it.

However by your logic, you think I should only comment if I have access to all the facts - including those you've censored. Convenient.

Blowfish

The Corinthian wrote:

However by your logic, you think I should only comment if I have access to all the facts - including those you've censored. Convenient.

AFAIK the full post was quoted.

Boston

The Corinthian wrote:

I have read the thread - and contributed to it - and I'm basing my opinion on the available facts I have and have been very open about it.

However by your logic, you think I should only comment if I have access to all the facts - including those you've censored. Convenient.

I don't think you understand corinthian, Hobbes is saying this was the offending post.

metrovelvet wrote:

What do Islamic lesbians have to say about it? Does anyone know of any feminist/queer theory on the subject?

It's understandable that you would think there has to be more to it then this, but there doesn't seem to be. I can certainly see how this was an outrageous attack on Islam, wildly off-topic of course. :rolleyes: