banned islam why?

Hobbes

The Corinthian wrote:

However by your logic, you think I should only comment if I have access to all the facts - including those you've censored. Convenient.

I was pointing out her post was still in the thread. The only reason I didn't comment on it after banning is because dinobot got to it first.

Your free to voice your opinions on the moderating of the forum but at the end of the day its decisions of the other mods + admins that counts. The mods were informed of the going on in the thread and my actions.

Also no secret but not wildly published is that the_new_mr (with both our agreement) overrules me in relation to Bans if he feels it was too harsh. Hence the reason I didn't start banning after the first warning. Both infront and the_new_mr prefer to continue discussion but there is a limit to how long muppetry will be put up with.

Boston wrote:

I can certainly see how this was an outrageous attack on Islam, wildly off-topic of course.

The discussion was already off topic. There were multiple warnings. People fail to heed the warnings they get banned. Metro can't claim ignorance because she was already taking part in the thread.

oscarBravo

InFront wrote:

Right now I guess it would be about as welcome as an immigration thread in the politics forum, but I can't see that it would be 'off limits'.

I'd just like to make it clear at this point that immigration threads are not a problem on Politics. Soapboxing and thinly-cloaked racist rants are a problem on Politics.



I'd also like to make it clear that I'm not in denial about not being gay.

WhiteWashMan

DeVore wrote:

Additionally, I do enjoy writing a carefully worded response and have it almost entirely ignored by the most of the protagonists in the argument. .

which was?

while i sometimes admire myself as making a well covered point i have come to the conclusion that if you actually want someone to understand exactly what you are saying, then you should say it very clearly in small words and short sentences.

Gordon

WhiteWashMan wrote:

which was?

while i sometimes admire myself as making a well covered point i have come to the conclusion that if you actually want someone to understand exactly what you are saying, then you should say it very clearly in small words and short sentences.

F u n e x?

oscarBravo

S, v f x.

metrovelvet

InFront wrote:

This isn't the Islam forum (obviously) but hijab is not an item of clothing, nor is it limited to women. Hijab is not the headscarf worn by women, it is a practice of modesty on behalf of both men and women who are Muslims. And believe it or not, hijab does effect men, we must observe our own (different) hijab too!:)

Hijab has religious importance, it's not really a cultural question in itself.


Unfortunately there are very few female Muslims on boards, and if you look at the thread in question, it is something that was pointed out, and a few people said it was a pity that this is the case including myself and the the_new_mr and I think Schuhart. More female input in the Islam would be great actually.


There's nothing that Islamic scholarship has "no opinion" on as far as I know, so as long as somebody says "look at this culture (e.g. homosexuals), what does islam say about that?" this really isn't a problem.
But asking "Look at islam, what does "homosexual culture" say about Islam?"... in the Islam forum, seems back to front. This homosexual theory topic metrovelvet invoked, it is another theory, not Islamic theory, so doesn't it belong somewhere else? Anyway Hobbes has already given his reasons.

By the way I can't speak for anybody else who uses the Islam forum, but I for one have no problem with a thread asking about what Islam says about homosexuals in general, once the question isn't designed just to cause trouble or generate a feedback thread.
Right now I guess it would be about as welcome as an immigration thread in the politics forum, but I can't see that it would be 'off limits'.

Well clearly there are muslims who practise homosexuality and I was curious as to how lesbian/feminist muslims might "read" the wearing of the hijab or how they felt about it. Given that feminism and queer thoery have spent so much time on "signage" it would seem that islamic feminist/queer theory might also talk about female adornment and dress within Islam.

How this is off topic I fail to see. It is still focuses on the wearing of the hijab. In fact the title of the thread is a "non muslims view on the hijab" or something that effect. So invoking islamic feminist/lesbian perspectives on this garment seems entirely on topic.

And so, we can gather from this thread on feedback the homosexuals and lesbians are not welcome on the islam boards, not even their perspectives or opinions, that it excludes these voices from its dialogue? Would that be a correct assumption, that it has a deliberately installed policy of discrimination against homosexuals and lesbian perspectives?

The two lesbian muslims on the documentary I was watching were very interesting. One was an NYU professor who didnt wear a head covering but had her hair cut in your derigeur lesbian butch crew while the other woman wore a skull and crossbones bandana around her head. They both considered themselves Muslim and were both practisising lesbians. After having seen this I thought it would be fruitful to ask if anyone on the Islamic boards would have any more access to such persectives.

DeVore

And so, we can gather from this thread on feedback the homosexuals and lesbians are not welcome on the islam boards, not even their perspectives or opinions, that it excludes these voices from its dialogue? Would that be a correct assumption, that it has a deliberately installed policy of discrimination against homosexuals and lesbian perspectives?

See, now I think you are a tard and that makes sexual-harassment panda sad...



DeV.

Boston

DeVore wrote:

See, now I think you are a tard and that makes sexual-harassment panda sad...



DeV.

If she's a tard, then I'm a tard and a lot of other people posting on this thread are tards. Why don't you go read the posts by both Hobbes and infront

Metro's comment clearly looked like they were taking the p!ss. Mainly because they were equating Feminists to Lesbians (ignoring the fact that Islam and homosexuality don't mix).

Hobbes already warned people about attacking Islam in that thread

I hate to beat the drum on this, but she has a point, and having been banned for what she was banend for, its easy to she how she came to the conclusions she did about the forum and their unwillingness to hear others prepectives. You may disagree and think it's the most open forum in the world, but you haven't been unfairly banned from the place. Tbh if your going to be calling people tards, your opinion on people isn't all that important.

Hobbes

Boston, I am not entirely sure where you are going with it. She was banned because she continued on a subject *in that thread* which was clearly off topic and asked to be discussed in a seperate thread.

She was not banned because "And so, we can gather from this thread on feedback the homosexuals and lesbians are not welcome on the islam boards, etc". I would take that comment as just being a tard as well.

And to finish up. Metro is not permently banned, she is banned for a week despite the fact in my personal opinion if it was up to me she would be permanently banned based on her comments overall in relation to Islam. But then personal opinion doesn't count, only actions within the forum.

WhiteWashMan

Hobbes wrote:

She was banned because she continued on a subject *in that thread* which was clearly off topic and asked to be discussed in a seperate thread. .

i thought it was her first post on the thread?

technically speaking, she didnt continue anything, and was not asked to discuss anything in a seperate thread

Boston

Hobbes wrote:

Boston, I am not entirely sure where you are going with it. She was banned because she continued on a subject *in that thread* which was clearly off topic and asked to be discussed in a seperate thread.

I fail to see how it was off-topic, and the only conclusion I can come to is that the topic raised is off limits on that forum.

She was not banned because "And so, we can gather from this thread on feedback the homosexuals and lesbians are not welcome on the islam boards, etc". I would take that comment as just being a tard as well.

Well I'll agree thats subjective, however the second part of the post

installed policy of discrimination against homosexuals and lesbian perspectives?

Is what I feel is plan to see.

Btw I love the way once Devore "Implies" someones a tard, its ok for others to imply that same person is a tard.

amp

So this retarded lesbian muslim walks into a bar... stop me if you've heard this one...

Hobbes

Boston wrote:

I fail to see how it was off-topic,

That's your issue, not the forums.

Is what I feel is plan to see.

plan? plain? Please feel free to point out where someone has been banned for being homosexual or discussing the topic (while remaining within the forums charter). Good luck with that.

In fact metrovelvet has discussed homosexuality on the forum before and hasn't been banned for it even when it was slightly off topic. (Thread in question). She has been banned before for a straight out attack on the Islam religion though and although shes wise enough not to post her full personal opinions on the Islam forum she has made her point on the subject quite clear outside the forum (and with comments which would get permanent bans in the forum).

WWMan wrote:

I thought it was her first post on the thread?

No she had commented earlier on the thread. The warnings were already posted. Just because it wasn't her being off topic at that time didn't give her an out after the warning.

Boston

Hobbes wrote:

In fact metrovelvet has discussed homosexuality on the forum before and hasn't been banned for it even when it was slightly off topic. (Thread in question).

That must be some the the previous behaviour on the forum you mentioned when indicating you'd liek to perm ban her.

She has been banned before for a straight out attack on the Islam religion though and although shes wise enough not to post her full personal opinions on the Islam forum she has made her point on the subject quite clear outside the forum (and with comments which would get permanent bans in the forum).

Hang on a second, I thought it was a cultural reference and a ban for being off-topic. Now it's a ban for attacking the religion. Also I love to way early you said that what happens outside the forum doesn't affect what happens inside it, but clearly it's made you biased against her.

No she had commented earlier on the thread. The warnings were already posted. Just because it wasn't her being off topic at that time didn't give her an out after the warning.

So no warning giving. Grand.

In conclusion it was a summary banning, with no prior warning, largely based on your personal opinion of her, derived from posts outside the forum. And Devore say she's the tard :rolleyes:

Talliesin

Boston wrote:

And Devore say she's the tard :rolleyes:

TBH, I thought the same thing at that comment, and I agree with her initial point.

Hobbes

Boston wrote:

That must be some the the previous behaviour on the forum you mentioned when indicating you'd liek to perm ban her.

You mean like prehaps a quote from the feedback forum where she refers to one of the posters in the Islam forum: "How dumb can you get. They just shoot themselves in the foot when they are not blowing themselves up.".

Such a comment in the Islam forum would get you a permanent ban from there.

Now it's a ban for attacking the religion.

No, she was banned before is what I was referring to. As you know the search isn't working so having to troll through posts just to satisfy you is a waste of my time. So here is the information and you can go find it yourself (and no I can't remember if it was me who banned her last time).

03-08-2006 metrovelvet - BAN 1 week. Thinking you can break Rule 1.

but clearly it's made you biased against her.

If I was biased against her I would of banned her for good a long time ago.

So no warning giving. Grand.

If I recall correctly 2-3 warnings on the thread to stay on topic with the comment anyone after that warning to continuing to be off topic would get a temp ban.

Really your just being a tard now.

kmick

That forum is a crock and the sooner we all admit it the better. If you have any interest in seeing the kind of dumbed down, semi literate, undisguised falsity that passes for intelligent thought go to the Islam forum and read the first post in the thread entitled 'Hijab - a non-muslim womans perspective'. There are a couple of people on there namely me and a guy called Schuhart you tried to pick apart the points put forward in a rational and sane way. I got a ban for supposedly 'questioning the moderators' schuhart is still making nil headway but is not banned. After about two weeks of headbutting I said publicly that the level of argument there was puerile and that I was leaving and never coming back. I got banned - go figure. As far as I am concerned the Islam forum is not the place to attack Islam. However if someone from the Islamic faith posts something which is obviously a pile of steaming horse manure as the first post in that thread was - Subsequently some non-muslims question the sanity of the post. The result of this is generally a ban.

<edit> In fact don’t bother going to read that post in that forum. There is a saying never ague with an idiot - they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. This applies in this case. I have wasted 2 hours of my life arguing with idiots there and as I pointed out in that forum I would have been better off in the after hours forum arguing about sub woofers.

I love a healthy discussion by the way and this Islam forum is a disgrace.

Hobbes

kmick you got a ban because after telling everyone to remain on topic you felt the need to ignore it. No conspiracy just your general stupidity.

Boston

Hobbes wrote:

Really your just being a tard now.

The ever clam Hobbes finally looses some of that famed composure. Meh, I'm done here.

Hobart

kmick wrote:

That forum is a crock and the sooner we all admit it the better. If you have any interest in seeing the kind of dumbed down, semi literate, undisguised falsity that passes for intelligent thought go to the Islam forum and read the first post in the thread entitled 'Hijab - a non-muslim womans perspective'. There are a couple of people on there namely me and a guy called Schuhart you tried to pick apart the points put forward in a rational and sane way. I got a ban for supposedly 'questioning the moderators' schuhart is still making nil headway but is not banned. After about two weeks of headbutting I said publicly that the level of argument there was puerile and that I was leaving and never coming back. I got banned - go figure. As far as I am concerned the Islam forum is not the place to attack Islam. However if someone from the Islamic faith posts something which is obviously a pile of steaming horse manure as the first post in that thread was - Subsequently some non-muslims question the sanity of the post. The result of this is generally a ban.

<edit> In fact don’t bother going to read that post in that forum. There is a saying never ague with an idiot - they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. This applies in this case. I have wasted 2 hours of my life arguing with idiots there and as I pointed out in that forum I would have been better off in the after hours forum arguing about sub woofers.

I love a healthy discussion by the way and this Islam forum is a disgrace.

Could not agree more tbh. I did question/post in that forum, out of genuine interest. I don't any more, mainly down to being warned about "questioning" the mods and the 'religion'...wtf? Accept and move on was the general tone.

Make it private, and let them have a love-in or whatever the mods want, it's not a discussion forum, it's more like a mosk.

Hobbes

Boston wrote:

The ever clam Hobbes finally looses some of that famed composure. Meh, I'm done here.

Well I had a feeling that is what you were waiting for although I was still quite composed when I said that.

kmick

Hobbes wrote:

kmick you got a ban because after telling everyone to remain on topic you felt the need to ignore it. No conspiracy just your general stupidity.

Thankfully we are in the real world now not your happy clappy Islam forum and insulting my intelligence is allowed.

Hobart wrote:

Make it private, and let them have a love-in or whatever the mods want, it's not a discussion forum, it's more like a mosk.

Seconded

Boston

You miss understand, at first I just thought you where a relic of a moderator, a throw back to the bad/good old days of boards where your approach to people was fine. Now that you've become personal about it, it's not worth my time talking to you.

metrovelvet

I didnt get any warning. Everything I said other than the one sentence that got me banned is still there, so you can see for yourself what I said.

I was completely on topic. There was nothing off topic about what I said.

I didnt attack the religion. I wanted to know what lesbians/feminists within the religion felt on the subject and if anyone knew. It is a reasonable question given that lesbian/feminist theory has so much to say on womens dress and costume, it is a fair question to ask if the islamic areas of such philosphies have similar commentaries.

Theres nothing that says you can get banned in CURRENT discussions for things you have said months and months ago where you already got banned. Apparantly in Hobbes world people cant change their minds or try to explore other perspectives, thats far too evolved for him.

Im sure he knows hes wrong and is now just trying desperately to save face.

Blowfish

metrovelvet wrote:

I didnt get any warning.

You did.

Hobbes wrote:

Your writing style is somewhat aggressive (intentional or not who knows) and as mentioned you do tend to draw other subjects which are better suited for separate threads rather then derailing the thread.

Followed by

Hobbes wrote:

Maybe I didn't make myself clear earlier on or people thought it was only related to one person. Either way if my earlier warnings aren't followed this thread will be locked and related people will be taking a holiday.

He warned everybody, that includes you.

Hobbes

metrovelvet wrote:

I didnt get any warning.

The warnings were in the thread. Just because you didn't get a personal one doesn't mean that you are somehow protected.

I was completely on topic. There was nothing off topic about what I said.

Taken in context of the whole thread where people were talking about homosexuality (unrelated to the subject) where warned to take it elsewhere and then and come and respond to bring it back to the same subject. You got the ban.

Theres nothing that says you can get banned in CURRENT discussions for things you have said months and months ago where you already got banned.

True, but previous actions in the forum do weight towards later warns/bans though. For example if you were warned and banned before on an issue your less likely to be warned when you come back and go straight to a ban.

Im sure he knows hes wrong and is now just trying desperately to save face.

No, I explained why you are banned back on page 2. Nothing has changed since then. Your more then welcome to discuss your subject on topic when your ban is up. Or you can take it to Humanities if you feel asking it may result in a ban.

metrovelvet

DeVore wrote:

See, now I think you are a tard and that makes sexual-harassment panda sad...



DeV.

Why, when the whole reasoning for the ban was because I wanted to see if anyone had access to what islamic lesbian/queer/ or feminist theory would say?

I wasnt even talking about homosexuality within islam itself and I got all these responses about how homosexuality isnt practised in islam. If you cant even mention the world lesbian in that forum well then one has to wonder.

The topic is NON MUSLIMS View on HIJAB, and was started by the MOD of that forum. I certainly did not drag it off topic, I stayed on topic, was faithful to the title of the thread, and wanted to expand the dialogue by perhaps discovering what alternative muslims felt about the same subject.

Hobbes

Boston wrote:

Now that you've become personal about it, it's not worth my time talking to you.

win win.

metrovelvet

Hobbes wrote:

Taken in context of the whole thread where people were talking about homosexuality (unrelated to the subject) where warned to take it elsewhere and then and come and respond to bring it back to the same subject. You got the ban.

You see this is where I wonder about your reading comprehension skills. I was not discussing homosexuality. I was talking about the HIJAB but was wondering what Islamic feminists/lesbian theory had to say about and you went bananas.

Boston