banned islam why?

WhiteWashMan

is football allowed in islamic law?

and if so, does this make them more tolerant than the GAA?

Hobbes

metrovelvet wrote:

in ref to Filan.

And just after Schubert commended you on your reading skills.

No he wasn't talking about Filan, go back and read it. He was calling the Muslim that Filan was talking about an idiot because he wasn't behaving as a Muslim should.

And for the record the ban had nothing to do with the comment "Queer Theory". I have already clearly spelt out why the ban was done.

Only in so far that the consistency in policy hasnt been resolved an people dont really know what they can and cant say.

Because a whole fricken charter, a separate thread spelling out whats acceptable in very short words and multiple warnings of what wasn't acceptable on that thread didn't work?

If you can't work with that then there is no hope for you.

Perhaps a solution to this would be to start a comparative religion forum or a theology forum which is free of "sacred cows" and more academic/theological.

You mean like Humanities forum prehaps that is listed as were to go to discuss stuff in a manner your more suited too? You know the forum suggested in the charter, in this thread.

Schuhart wrote:

What is this comment supposed to relate to?

Relates to...
"In fairness to Hobbes, our educational system is pretty crap so you cannot be sure that you're talking to someone who knows that existentialism is not something a hooker charges you extra for."

and

"At the same time, we are blessed with an amount of rat-like cunning, so if you just stick to a vocabulary that a twelve-year-old might have you'll find the room for misunderstanding will be greatly reduced."

The first one is a clear attack at me. I see you try to weedle out in your later post by saying all Irish people, but being a genius that you claim perhaps you should of said that to begin with.

As for the second comment, as I rarely take stuff personal I can only assume that you are insulting all the Islam mods.

If it wasn't meant to be insulting be a bit more clear about what it is your going to say rather then going on a tirade about how no one is intelligent enough to understand you.

metrovelvet

Hobbes wrote:

No he wasn't talking about Filan, go back and read it. He was calling the Muslim that Filan was talking about an idiot because he wasn't behaving as a Muslim should..

Been there and done that.

Hobbes wrote:

And for the record the ban had nothing to do with the comment "Queer Theory". I have already clearly spelt out why the ban was done. ..

First you said it was because it was off topic. THen you said it was because of things I said six months ago.

Devore said he was ready to take out the banning stick when he read the phrase "queer theory."

Yes the ban was lifted, a ban which shouldnt have been applied in the first place, but it has taken 6 pages on feedback to do so.

Hobbes wrote:

Because a whole fricken charter, a separate thread spelling out whats acceptable in very short words and multiple warnings of what wasn't acceptable on that thread didn't work?..

Th warnings were about going off topic, which I hadnt done once in that thread.


Relates to...
"In fairness to Hobbes, our educational system is pretty crap so you cannot be sure that you're talking to someone who knows that existentialism is not something a hooker charges you extra for."

and

"At the same time, we are blessed with an amount of rat-like cunning, so if you just stick to a vocabulary that a twelve-year-old might have you'll find the room for misunderstanding will be greatly reduced."

The first one is a clear attack at me. I see you try to weedle out in your later post by saying all Irish people, but being a genius that you claim perhaps you should of said that to begin with.

As for the second comment, as I rarely take stuff personal I can only assume that you are insulting all the Islam mods.

If it wasn't meant to be insulting be a bit more clear about what it is your going to say rather then going on a tirade about how no one is intelligent enough to understand you.[/QUOTE]

I think part of the problem is that it is clear that the moderators or many of them on boards do not have educational backgrounds in the humanities, but in low level engineering or IT so they arent really equipped to moderate forums that demand a certain amount of cultural literacy.

And why wasnt the thread moved to humanities in the first place?

Schuhart

Hobbes wrote:

And for the record the ban had nothing to do with the comment "Queer Theory". I have already clearly spelt out why the ban was done.

For the record, you have failed to convince.

Hobbes wrote:

being a genius that you claim perhaps you should of said that to begin with.

Alternatively, perhaps you should have read the whole post the first time, as you now obviously have.

Hobbes wrote:

As for the second comment, as I rarely take stuff personal I can only assume that you are insulting all the Islam mods.

The comment is clearly directed at all products of the Irish educational system, including me.

As for the other mods on the Islam forum, I wouldn't be surprised if main reason that Metrovelvet's ban is lifted is because they telling you in the background that you can't just ban someone because you thought they said 'bender', no matter how many of your mates turn up to pretend it was all her fault. Strange as it may seem to you, there are actually people who value integrity over group allegience.

Wibbs

WhiteWashMan wrote:

is football allowed in islamic law?

and if so, does this make them more tolerant than the GAA?

comparing one of worlds greatest faiths to the GAA should get you banned.:D

Hobbes wrote:

No he wasn't talking about Filan, go back and read it. He was calling the Muslim that Filan was talking about an idiot because he wasn't behaving as a Muslim should.

yep we covered that(oh and again just before I see).

You mean like Humanities forum prehaps that is listed as were to go to discuss stuff in a manner your more suited too? You know the forum suggested in the charter, in this thread.

Eh I think that's what he wrote;

Schuhart wrote:

I think it probably brings us back to Humanities. In fairness, I can never recall any discussion there being interrupted so long as posts stayed reasonably in touch with some version of reality. The problem, as I see it, is navigation. Humanities is all the way Up There and all the Religion related forums are Down Here. I’m not suggesting moving Humanities as its scope is so much broader – but we probably need something to make us more mindful of its existence so that we think to plonk any controversies up there. I’d wonder if there’s actually enough traffic to justify a new theology forum, fun as it might be.

Hobbes wrote:

The first one is a clear attack at me. I see you try to weedle out in your later post by saying all Irish people, but being a genius that you claim perhaps you should of said that to begin with.

A clear attack on you? He then goes on to write; "You'll notice that several of us hadn't come across the term before. I had some dim memory of seeing the term before, but I honestly could not have told you what it meant.". So you see he did write that to begin with. Reading is different to assumption. BTW where did he infer he was a genius? That may say more about you than him.

As for the second comment, as I rarely take stuff personal I can only assume that you are insulting all the Islam mods.

Whoa there, where in God's name do you get that from what he wrote? Have a read of the debate between Schuhart and the new mr on that thread, or indeed other threads. While they go back and forth at time's its a good read on both sides and it's obvious they have a mutual respect for each others position, style and intelligence in the manner of the debate. InFront throws his weight about to good effect too and he's only a recent addition to the mod game.

rather then going on a tirade about how no one is intelligent enough to understand you.

There's the nub of it. Perception is everything I suppose.

Wibbs

metrovelvet wrote:

I think part of the problem is that it is clear that the moderators or many of them on boards do not have educational backgrounds in the humanities, but in low level engineering or IT so they arent really equipped to moderate forums that demand a certain amount of cultural literacy.

In fairness, I don't think that's always the case. The nerdiest IT person I know, is also the most culturally literate person I know. Judging from the modding in both this forum and others of it's ilk, I personally find the input of the mods for the most part, pretty much on the ball. A hiccup over queer theory doesn't really swing it for me(and I'm not an IT person).

BuffyBot

I think part of the problem is that it is clear that the moderators or many of them on boards do not have educational backgrounds in the humanities, but in low level engineering or IT so they arent really equipped to moderate forums that demand a certain amount of cultural literacy.

I think you haven't thought your widesweeping generalisations through enough.

WhiteWashMan

metrovelvet wrote:

I think part of the problem is that it is clear that the moderators or many of them on boards do not have educational backgrounds in the humanities, but in low level engineering or IT so they arent really equipped to moderate forums that demand a certain amount of cultural literacy.

much to the surprise of everyone here im sure, but ive read every booker prize winner.

and yet im surprised that for someone as well educated with the relevant backgrounds in the humanities, which im assuming you have, could contrive to put up such a short and flimsy and uncomprehensive post as you did.

im simply flabergasted that you seem to have been unable to work your point into the thread by means of linking points, making comparisons, and working the obvious feminist theme into it.

but im sure if the mods were educated to your high standard, they would have made that leap of faith on your behalf and banned everyone else in the thread for not giving you the respect you obviously deserve.

or you can just face the fact that you are banned, be it right or wrong in anyones eyes.
and while i think you shouldnt have been banned, i do now have a very low opinion of you, and your well humanitied-educated background.

Hobbes

Schuhart wrote:

For the record, you have failed to convince.

If I failed to convince you that is your problem. Not mine.

Alternatively, perhaps you should have read the whole post the first time

I read the whole post, I even read your follow up post where you claimed it was more directed at everyone then made a comment to the opposite.

As for the other mods on the Islam forum, I wouldn't be surprised if main reason that Metrovelvet's ban is lifted is because they telling you in the background that you can't just ban someone because you thought they said 'bender',

Now who is making up imaginary worlds.

RuggieBear

dime bar???

metrovelvet

Wibbs wrote:

In fairness, I don't think that's always the case. The nerdiest IT person I know, is also the most culturally literate person I know. Judging from the modding in both this forum and others of it's ilk, I personally find the input of the mods for the most part, pretty much on the ball. A hiccup over queer theory doesn't really swing it for me(and I'm not an IT person).

Ok but it doesnt seem that way at times. It wasnt the hiccup over queer theory that gave me that impression, everyone has gaps in their knowledge, but the histrionic over reaction to a term that references homosexuality and the inability to recognise what is on topic and what isnt followed by pointing out a humanties forum without having moved the thread to said forum.

Devore's "gut reaction" - you know his gut never guides him wrong- was to ban when he saw the term QUEER THEORY, thinking that because HE never heard of it it must not exist.

WWM - I can see you read a lot of ee cummings.

No it does not surprise me that you read every Booker prize winner. Im very happy for you and I dont have a low opinion of you.

WhiteWashMan

metrovelvet wrote:

WWM - I can see you read a lot of ee cummings.
.

believe it or not, while i would like to say my lack of capitalisation is a nod to ee cummings (who is one of my favourite poet by the way), its actually down to may laziness in typing.

but the reference is not missed. must be my terrific upbringing, well rounded education, and my skill as a child of the internet zeitgeist.

metrovelvet

ee cummings

is one

of my favourites

too.

While I'm not a stickler for perfect writing mechanics, I will say that the over absence of the uppercase is irritating and that if you don't honour/practise certain formalities and codes then readers will have the impression that you are illiterate and can' t really be blamed for having that impression regardless of how many books you read or what prizes those books have won.

Hobbes

I recommend you read the thread about Dyslexia and the Internet.

I would also recommend you actually stop taking the piss and follow the Islam forum charter. I have deleted your latest post on that thread as it is offtopic (discussing moderation rather then the subject). If you continue to post like that I will ban you again.

If your incapable of that take it to another forum.

Also Devore didn't ban you before, I did. I didn't ban you for the "Queer Theory" comment despite what you might believe.

As for the assumption that all moderators are IT background. That is a seriously faulty assumption. There are 100's of moderators on boards.ie with different jobs, skills and areas of interest. Many don't agree with each other (which is normal in large numbers).

Oh and Wibbs I can understand why you wouldn't take his comment personally as the education system churns out morons who can't understand double entendres and who are lucky if they are facing the direction of the keyboard. So am I insulting you?

WhiteWashMan

i dont give a toss though what you think of me.

of course, you are the only one that has mentioned that there is an impression of illiterecy, so im going to assume that you are the one who has come to that conclusion.

however, i find that common use of the enter key allows me to use paragraphs which makes what i write easy to read, and my points easy to pick up.

but im gald you picked up my writing style as a distracion away from any of the points i made towards your post on the islam forum.
perhaps you have just had enough of talking about it, since you have been doing it all day yesterday and this morning, or you just cant be arsed, or you dont have answer.

feel free to continue your crusade against ignorant mods though. im surprised that someone with your obvious background can be bothered to post here. surely an intellectual giant such as yourself should be off publishing papers or something academic.

me, personally, i prefer people with common sense than booksmarts. i find booksmart people to be quite boring and tiresome.

metrovelvet

Hobbes wrote:

I recommend you read the thread about Dyslexia and the Internet.

I would also recommend you actually stop taking the piss and follow the Islam forum charter. I have deleted your latest post on that thread as it is offtopic (discussing moderation rather then the subject). If you continue to post like that I will ban you again.

If your incapable of that take it to another forum.

Also Devore didn't ban you before, I did. I didn't ban you for the "Queer Theory" comment despite what you might believe.

As for the assumption that all moderators are IT background. That is a seriously faulty assumption. There are 100's of moderators on boards.ie with different jobs, skills and areas of interest. Many don't agree with each other (which is normal in large numbers).

Oh and Wibbs I can understand why you wouldn't take his comment personally as the education system churns out morons who can't understand double entendres and who are lucky if they are facing the direction of the keyboard. So am I insulting you?

For the record, and I have PMd you on this, I asked you to remind people what you consider to be on topic and what isnt since there has been so much confusion. I did not on that thread -as I have on this one -comment on your modding.

I dont understand why I should read the dyslexia forum? Are you dyslexic?

Why is everyone taking it so personally about not having a humanities background and modding humanities subjects?

It wouldnt make any sense for someone with a humanities background to mod one of the technical/engineering or science forums would it?

I have retracted my assumption about mods and their IT backgrounds already so calm down.

WWM I cant make heads nor tales of your points or see through all the typoghraphical games you play to address whatever it is your talking about.

And clearly you do care what I think or you wouldnt be reacting with so much hostility nor would you be demanding that I offer YET MORE of what I think.

WhiteWashMan

no, im just bored, and i think you dont respond becasue you cant.

to say that its to do with my lack of capitals is a sad sad argument.

or maybe youa re telling the truth and you just dont understand what im saying. in which case, id say youre not as clever as you think you are.

in which case, youre point about mods not being eligble to mod is nul and void, since i appear to be more clever than you.

nor are there any demands.


gosh, youve made so many inacurate statements in such a short space bandwidth.

anyway, i'll take it that im points up nd call it a day. american idol is on, and its far more interesting.

i still dont think you should have been banned, but you are, so live with it.

Wibbs

metrovelvet wrote:

Ok but it doesnt seem that way at times. It wasnt the hiccup over queer theory that gave me that impression, everyone has gaps in their knowledge, but the histrionic over reaction to a term that references homosexuality and the inability to recognise what is on topic and what isnt followed by pointing out a humanties forum without having moved the thread to said forum.

In this case the overreaction seemed to go both ways.

Devore's "gut reaction" - you know his gut never guides him wrong- was to ban when he saw the term QUEER THEORY, thinking that because HE never heard of it it must not exist.

As Hobbes points out DeVore didn't ban you He did. If you don't get that you're either spoiling for a witless argument, or taking the píss. Well that's the vibe I'm getting anyway. Apologies if I'm incorrect.

No it does not surprise me that you read every Booker prize winner. Im very happy for you and I dont have a low opinion of you.

I'm sure that must warm the cockles of his heart.

WhiteWashMan wrote:

or you can just face the fact that you are banned, be it right or wrong in anyones eyes.
and while i think you shouldnt have been banned, i do now have a very low opinion of you, and your well humanitied-educated background.

I'm afraid that just about sums it up for me.

Hobbes wrote:

Oh and Wibbs I can understand why you wouldn't take his comment personally as the education system churns out morons who can't understand double entendres and who are lucky if they are facing the direction of the keyboard. So am I insulting you?

No. Why would that be an insult? If it was something I felt insecure about it might be, but it carries no weight. Outside this context I might assume you may be trying to insult me, but until other evidence came up, I'd hold back.

If you re read the original post and try to dismiss your own bias and seeming insecurities, you may see that.

He said(to paraphrase, as I see it); "I'm not surprised Hobbes didn't understand "queer theory". Most here didn't. I didn't." He went on to say(again paraphrasing) "Maybe when people write this stuff they might assume the reader isn't as aquainted as they may be with the subject matter and terminology. That way you may get your point across better."

But hey, everyone has an opinion. So there you go.

Sangre

And people say religions doesn't cause wars...

The Corinthian

Real Life™ kind of distracted me from this thread for a few pages/days, so let me get where this thread now stands straight:

• Hobbes banned someone from the Islam forum for dubious reasons. These reasons appeared to morph as the thread progressed and eventually the ban was overturned in a manner that allowed Hobbes not to admit he was wrong.
• DeVore has gut feelings. As he is an owner of Boards.ie and director of Boards Ltd, it really does not matter if these gut feelings are a form of extrasensory divination, the product of years of experience on the Internet or the ravings of a narcissist. However, if it’s the former, I’d ask him to PM me tonight’s Lotto numbers.
• Metrovelvet was reinstated and essentially vindicated and then set about alienating everyone. Another page of this and no one will remember the original purpose of the thread, let alone its resolution. Stop digging.
• Any forum that promotes a faith, ideology or philosophy is not going to be open to reasoned debate. To begin with it will always attract opponents (both fair and insane) of its stated faith, ideology or philosophy. But it will always be run on the principle that it is true and thus even reasoned and genuine criticism will be treated as heresy if it gets too close to debunking any of its principle beliefs.
• WWM would argue with his own shadow if it gave him sport to do so.

I do think that any forum that promotes a faith, ideology or philosophy should be better signposted with regard to the fact that it is not there to be debated or tested, but it is there to educate in favour of it, argue within safe parameters and probably even evangelise or proselytize.

If you don’t do that, you can hardly blame people for bringing up difficult points.

Wibbs

Jeez I just saw this;

metrovelvet wrote:

ee cummings

is one

of my favourites

too.

Never heard of him. There you go. Must flagellate myself for that. Never read Terry Pratchett either. I'm really out of the loop.

While I'm not a stickler for perfect writing mechanics,

Break out the spanners, lads. My uppercase H just blew a gasket.

I will say that the over absence of the uppercase is irritating and that if you don't honour/practise certain formalities and codes then readers will have the impression that you are illiterate and can' t really be blamed for having that impression regardless of how many books you read or what prizes those books have won.

Illiterate? Only if a person fails to actually read the content, regardless of absence of uppercase. Which one is the fool in this equation? Meh, take it to the spell czech forum methinks.

WhiteWashMan

The Corinthian wrote:

[*]WWM would argue with his own shadow if it gave him sport to do so.
[/LIST].

you made me lol there *****.

but that doesnt dilute any of my points.

for gods sake, im trying to watch american idol!

metrovelvet

Wibbs wrote:

In this case the overreaction seemed to go both ways.
As Hobbes points out DeVore didn't ban you He did. If you don't get that you're either spoiling for a witless argument, or taking the píss. Well that's the vibe I'm getting anyway. Apologies if I'm incorrect..

I should have been clear about who I was responding to. New MR asked why I would think homosexuality wouldnt be welcome on the muslim boards. Well it was a combination of Devore and Hobbes reactions to the phrase "queer theory" that would make me think that, and curiously nothing any of the practising muslims on the islam boards has said.

Wibbs wrote:

He said(to paraphrase, as I see it); "I'm not surprised Hobbes didn't understand "queer theory". Most here didn't. I didn't." He went on to say(again paraphrasing) "Maybe when people write this stuff they might assume the reader isn't as aquainted as they may be with the subject matter and terminology. That way you may get your point across better."

But hey, everyone has an opinion. So there you go.

Well this is why I thought it would be more suitable for someone with a humanties background, simply because they would have a more expanisive cultural vocabulary to mod the forum and everyone jumped down my throat for it. And they would at least have the sense to ask when they are unfamiliar with terminology?

And why has that thread still not been moved to Humanities?

And I never said I WOULD THINK YOU ARE ILLITERATE if you didnt apply the rules of mechanics, I said most would.

Blowfish

The Corinthian wrote:

I do think that any forum that promotes a faith, ideology or philosophy should be better signposted with regard to the fact that it is not there to be debated or tested, but it is there to educate in favour of it, argue within safe parameters and probably even evangelise or proselytize.

I would have thought that would have been common sense, I mean it applies all accross boards. For instance if I went into the TCD forum and started attacking it as a college I would fully expect to be banned. The same applies to sports, games, tv etc.

Then again, common sense is something that is sometimes sorely lacking among some posters.

WhiteWashMan

metrovelvet wrote:

And I never said I WOULD THINK YOU ARE ILLITERATE if you didnt apply the rules of mechanics, I said most would.

well, in my 9 years on boards.ie, youre the only one that question my ability to read and write.
ive been called a lot of things, and had many facets of my life called into quesion, (my ability to use the shift key being one) but not my ability to read and write.

so im going to have to say that its not most, im going to have to say its just you. by the way, using capitals doesnt make a point more valid.

really, for someone who is so well educated in humanities, i would have expected less generalisations out of you. generalising is a real sign of a lazy argument.



but you know this.


i have to say, im getting more and more disappointed with your education with every post you make. im begining to think if this is the poor and lazy level of debating that your ducaion affords you, then you know what?

im going to stick with our mods. they are not all perfect, and they may not all have a PhD as you must do, but they give up their time, and they try their best.

to have you make little jabs about their level of education after your responses is, laughable.
i think you owe the mods an apology.

RuggieBear

Come on Lakisha

DeVore

And now you latch onto another off the cuff phrase and sing the song of persecution. Oh woe is you for having to deal with the lower educated proles, but strive strive you must for the betterment of all mankind (and womankind...!).

You went off topic when the thread was clearly warned to stay on topic. The topic you happened to veer towards was homosexuality. From there you have made a MASSIVE leap to the conclusion that homosexuality is banned from being discussed in the Islam forum. Because you wanted to.

Get off the cross. This thread has 24 hours to live.

DeV.

Hobbes

The Corinthian wrote:

Hobbes banned someone from the Islam forum for dubious reasons. These reasons appeared to morph as the thread progressed and eventually the ban was overturned in a manner that allowed Hobbes not to admit he was wrong.

Nothing has changed since the original ban. She was banned for being off topic on the thread despite multiple warnings.

It was felt that may as well let her be a bit more clear on the subject at hand so an unban took place.

So far I have yet to see her do anything except post off topic again in the forum on the same thread (this time about moderation rather then the thread in question).

I do think that any forum that promotes a faith, ideology or philosophy should be better signposted with regard to the fact that it is not there to be debated or tested, but it is there to educate in favour of it, argue within safe parameters and probably even evangelise or proselytize.

How sign posted do you want it? Personal messages to everyone that enters? At the top of every post?

It is already in the Charter clearly stating what the forum is and isn't and where people should go if they can't live with those options. It's not rocket science as blowfish clearly points out.

It is for people of Islam to discuss topics in relation to them and to answer any honest questions people may have of the subject. It is not for people to try and argue or prove where Islam is wrong within the forum. There are many other forums to do that.

Btw, proselytizing (from anyone) gets you banned from the forum as well. Thats also in the charter.

Hobbes

And why has that thread still not been moved to Humanities?

Why should be be bothering moving a thread just because you can't follow the rules?

WhiteWashMan

DeVore wrote:

Get off the cross. This thread has 24 hours to live.

DeV.

come on dev, you know thats a different religion!

surely you should have said, 'bugger off and take a long pilgramage to the Wailing Wall'?