Prime Time - Department of Education -sex abuse

edengarden

I watched Prime Time tonight and am absolutely dismayed and sickened at the revelations tonight. For those who didn’t catch the program it was about people who were sexually abused as children in primary school and that now the Department of Education has no responsibility to theses people.

Some of the stories were heartbreaking. The Department of Education knew at the time what was going on and simply moved theses sickos to different schools.

I am fuming - basically if there is a known paedophile teacher employed in a school it is not the Department of Education’s responsibility.

Would like to hear other people's opinions.

Trinity

I thought it was the schools themselves that hire teachers, hold interviews and check references? Are they also not responsible for firing them and reporting abuse to the gardai?

If i were a teacher/principal and i knew of abuse my first phone call would be to the guards not the department

When was it based (what year) i didnt catch it.

Certainly these days there is strict protocol on suspected/reporting abuse.

WindSock

I think it was in the 1950's not too sure. What sickened me the most was that one of the victims tried to take it to court a few years ago for compensation and lost the case. She now stands to lose everything she owns, and was 'made an example of' as a deterrant to anyone else thinking of taking action. She said she felt used twice.
I really hope this blows into a scandal as large as the Church and those poor people get what they deserve.

limklad

Unfortunately, even with references you cannot detect pedophiles especially on their first offence or moved without getting caught. It difficult to detect. School are following the wrong line with cover ups. That only degrade the trust in school teachers who are responsibility to look after and teach out kids in schools. We cannot bring down the school system for the action of the few, but punishing the ones severely (not the school financially) for breaking our trust and confidence in placing our young little vulnerable ones in their care... To break the school financially will deprive our kids of a decent or a education.
Send them (pedophiles and those who cover up) to prisons for the rest of their LIFE

deisemum

Principals are covering up a lot of abuses and some are threatening that they will report parents to social services and have the parents investigated when they report abuse allegations to the school or BOM.

Nothing surprises me about how low the BOMs and Principals will go to cover up abuse.

limklad

deisemum wrote:

Principals are covering up a lot of abuses and some are threatening that they will report parents to social services and have the parents investigated when they report abuse allegations to the school or BOM.

Nothing surprises me about how low the BOMs and Principals will go to cover up abuse.

There is one answer to deal with this is to publicly expose these individuality.
Social welfare will think less of you for knowingly allowing your kids in to the hands of the pedophiles. There is more than one way to deal with them. There always a back door system, ie use someone else to snoop all over the school. ie send social welfare into the school anonymously about what is going on and say that the school is threatening the parents to cover up their actions.

I hold a dim view of anyone who helped to cover up child abuse to a lower standard than the pedophiles themselves because they allowed it to continue are just as responsible, no matter the circumstances.

deisemum

Social services have said that abuse in schools falls under the Dept of Education and not Social Services. In a school setting the only way social services can get involved is if the BOMs "report" abuse and not if parents make a complaint. The only other way is if the Gardai get involved.

If the Gardai get involved the Dept of Education will not get invovled.

limklad

That is scape goating of the social services, So if a child is abuse at home, do they step in or it that the guards matter?

It time we have a serious talking with the politicians, to get this matter sorted. Social services should step in to take control or given the power to take control to protect the kids.

A Great politician will take on responsibility with taken on difficult situations, getting the understanding of why the problems exist, and then carry out comprehensive solutions to the problems, despite what objections and pressures s/he gets, even putting their job at risk. Poor ones just constantly blame and gives lame excuses or lame solutions or cave in to public or social pressure, water down solutions so they can get elect next time.

Politicians need more than constant complaining and abuse. You need to send in comprehensive reasons/history and understanding why these problems are happening and possible ideas to solve so they have no excuses.

Remember that Politicians jobs are up for renewal every five years. Do not forget to remind him of that. It your VOTE that counts.

deisemum

I've been told by a seargant that teachers abusing pupils in all forms is going to be the next scandal and it's only a matter of time.

I've my own suspicions why the Dept of Education claim to "deal" with abuse in schools and why social services don't.

limklad

deisemum wrote:

I've been told by a seargant that teachers abusing pupils in all forms is going to be the next scandal and it's only a matter of time.

I've my own suspicions why the Dept of Education claim to "deal" with abuse in schools and why social services don't.

The Dept of education do not have responsibility for the kids. So this is a cop out by social services. We have this debate on who has responsibility for education of kids on the following thread, with other matters.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055000841&page=16

It is the Private schools who have responsibility. Therefore the Dept of Education can clean their hands of it.

Long thread I summerised the thread in my first post on the page.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055000841&page=15


We need to make this an election issue

luckat

Surely we're back to the central problem of Irish education - the lack of separation of church and state?

Almost all Irish schools are run by the Catholic church, with clergy on the boards of management.

Until the deeply corrupt church is swept away from education, abuse is going to be a problem.

limklad

luckat wrote:

Surely we're back to the central problem of Irish education - the lack of separation of church and state?

Almost all Irish schools are run by the Catholic church, with clergy on the boards of management.

Until the deeply corrupt church is swept away from education, abuse is going to be a problem.

Are you trolling here?

Will you reread all of the posts in this thread and in the link that I provided in my last post and the read latest post there (I know they are long) in which I and others have explain this. I have no problem with debating this with anyone.

You will then see that it was the easier (clever) option for the state to use the private system that they chose on your behalf. You clearly do not know the full history in the decisions that the state took and how they managed to escape the blame too. You have to be viewing so many documentaries, on RTE, British TV, and US to see this. Like many others you accuse with generalization out of ignorance and follow those who love passing and blaming and not getting an understanding how they are cause and not providing the best solutions or actions into resolving them.

Limklad wrote:

Just to repeat and summarized my views about my Private Catholic run schools.
The schools run by the most part as a public school until numbers get too large or space for kids are full. Otherwise they do not reject kids of any faith or none, and they do not teach these non-catholic kids about religion unless they have the permission of the parents. The church picks up the responsibility because the State failed miserably from the beginning of the State and still continues since then. I am not happy with the current approach of the state, but instead leaves it in the hands of others to do the work for them. Stating that not all state –Public Schools in other countries has been successful compare to private school.

The main culprit for not having a public school is the State – Otherwise the government, and us the citizens of this country who voted for them.
[/B]

If you still have this problem with the system, and still believe that there is no separation between church and state, then you clearly did not read the threads properly, then use your VOTE in this coming election and tell the politicians what you want, and do not forget to tell them that their jobs are up for renewal in fives years or less.
I had this in one of my previous post to another like you who generalization the actions of a few (who betrayed their religion). It is not the church fault that the state joins forces them. It was a choice by the politicians and (DeValea Fianna Fail) who helped forge the links and population (society) at the time who support them.

Limklad wrote:

It is only a problem to those who are ill-tolerant because they do not get what they want or they want a close society. It is not the Private Catholic School who happens to be closes to you that you are not Catholic. It not the Private Catholic School fault that there isn’t an alternative for you. They have picked up the slack when the government failed miserably for not setting up a public state sponsored educational system in the first place. They have served this country well in this regards.
So Know this, The Politicians jobs are up for renewal this summer and they are looking for your VOTE, and do let them know that they will be back looking for your VOTE in five years or less.

The Main fact is we are ALL to Blame and our predecessors who came before us. We as citizens have a VOTE. We live in a democracy, not a dictatorship.

Again like many others in society, you are generalization a problem for the actions of a few and punishing the innocent ones who was against the abuse and who wanted to educate us and accepted others outside and educate without poaching (unlike other churches or sects) and to educate them too, (it shows tolerance)..

luckat wrote:

Until the deeply corrupt church is swept away from education, abuse is going to be a problem.

You are inciting hatred against more innocent people and continuing the cycle of abuse, you are complaining about. Is this hypocrital on your part?

And the previous user said it was the teachers who are abusing now, not the church.

deisemum wrote:

I've been told by a seargant that teachers abusing pupils in all forms is going to be the next scandal and it's only a matter of time.

I've my own suspicions why the Dept of Education claim to "deal" with abuse in schools and why social services don't.

The sooner we get out of the blame game (inaction) and we need to break this cycle of abuse and provide protection (which is action) and better or alternative choices for the education of our kids the better. After all it is our kids who are our future and it is them we should be taking care off, instead of revenge, vengeance and hatred. Break this abuse cycle!!
Again you have a choice and a VOTE to put it in action in the next general election.

deisemum

I have been voting at every election for all the good it did. I've more than put my family in the line of fire for daring to try and stop abuse. It's not about revenge, vengence or hatred. It's about protecting children and at the very least doing my best to prevent other children being the victims of abuse. I don't want it on my conscience to think I did nothing and then hear that other children have suffered because I did nothing

I've been threatened that I'll be reported to social services, had nothing but abuse from the Principal and then the Parish Priest who claims to have investigated our claim, yet he wouldn't even speak with us. We've had our reputations smeared by some on the BOM. The most sickening thing is how other teachers all close ranks around the alleged abuser and lie for their colleague.

In fairness to the Gardai they have been very good. They were the ones who encouraged us to let them investigate our allegation and not to let anyone who abuse children in any way away with it because the perpetrator will just continue.

I can't say too much more now because there's a file gone to the DPP.

As for the Dept of Education, a total waste of time. They didn't want to know.

limklad

deisemum wrote:

I've more than put my family in the line of fire for daring to try and stop abuse. It's not about revenge, vengence or hatred. It's about protecting children and at the very least doing my best to prevent other children being the victims of abuse. I don't want it on my conscience to think I did nothing and then hear that other children have suffered because I did nothing

I with you on this.

deisemum wrote:

I've been threatened that I'll be reported to social services, had nothing but abuse from the Principal and then the Parish Priest who claims to have investigated our claim, yet he wouldn't even speak with us. We've had our reputations smeared by some on the BOM. The most sickening thing is how other teachers all close ranks around the alleged abuser and lie for their colleague.

I had a similar bullying thing but it was in a family scenario. The chief bully is my mother and sisters except one, since childhood have been smearing me and deny her actions. My mother was so effective in telling lies and spinning the truth to make herself the victim. It is the acting innocent attitude that she was able to convince others over the years. I gave them more chances to change, than they deserve. Lucky for me my mother burnt lots of bridges over the years and left a trail with bread crumbs, so when I came out it was easier for me but I was snub by certain family members (Who refuse to listen) and they got to the rest. All it did was to backfire on them. When bullying is entrenched, it is considered normal behavior. Their actions have now got people questioning what they are saying, because I have not caved in and living a much happier life. My own grandparents and others have been questioning them about their behavior, there were too many incidents over the years that she lied about and they still wondered what had been happening. I understand your situation about the threats (I have lost count) especially emotional and verbal, as I have received them too so often over many years.
So keep it up.

deisemum wrote:

In fairness to the Gardai they have been very good. They were the ones who encouraged us to let them investigate our allegation and not to let anyone who abuse children in any way away with it because the perpetrator will just continue.

I can't say too much more now because there's a file gone to the DPP.

It best to stay quite and do not get into details, until after the court unless you are given legal advice.

deisemum wrote:

As for the Dept of Education, a total waste of time. They didn't want to know.

You and the rest of the country know this after the Prime Time episode. You right in going to the Gardai with this. You have no other alternative since all doors are shut.